Natural cooling ideas.

[Richrd]

Thank you all, some good discussion and thoughtful answers. Assume a major factor in many peoples comfort. I took away:

 

1) Keep the sun out, extended eaves, insulated roofs & roof space, blinds maybe even solar panels to reflect heat away.

2) When hot supplement and amplify the fan with a AC. 

3) Using fan all time will help to keep ave temp down. 

 

On the fan front I'm thinking a Mr Ken helicopter fan with an Asian version of something like the Vornado 630 Medium Air Circulator. Happy to hear suggestions.

 

Richard

Edited October 12, 2020 by Richrd
Enhancement

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, Richrd said:

On the fan front I'm thinking a Mr Ken helicopter fan

I have 3 of the 84” ones in my workshop and seldom need to go to more than speed 2 or 3, I’ve probably only used 6 a few times.

[canopy]

There was advice given that is so important it is worth mentioning again. The air quality in Thailand is unhealthy for a substantial portion of the year. This is not a time to say oh whatever and sweep this information under the rug because air pollution is believed to damage every organ in the body.  Most of Thailand is a tropical savanna climate. This means there is a pronounced dry time of the year and during this time months or even half a year can go by without a drop of rain. This is when burning is rampant and bad air accumulates to very grim levels. With air quality monitoring stations we can now see in real time just how dire the situation is since PM2.5 particles are so small they are invisible to the human eye and also very bad to health since they go right through the lungs and into the bloodstream. When the air gets bad visibility diminishes, schools close, airplanes in some instances can't land, hundred of thousands head for the hospitals, the government sprays water in the air in vain, people are told not to exercise, and people die of respiratory diseases. Thailand in our century is not a good place to try to build a passive cooling lifestyle around. Maybe it was before and one day will be again. For now if health is important to you, you need to seal your house tight, turn on the AC, and turn on a hepa air purifier. There is no other way unfortunately.

 

And there is yet another problem with passive that may well be even bigger--the noise. All the way to the most out of the way spot in the country unnecessary man made noise is extremely high; an astounding variety of noisy loudspeakers pointing at you, modified motorcycles, barking dogs, weed trimmers, and so on--horrendous noise is everywhere. Noise also takes its toll on human health because it over works the brain and denies it rest it needs to replenish. You need a way to not just close the pollution out, but also the noise.

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by canopy

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, canopy said:

The air quality in Thailand is unhealthy for a substantial portion of the year

That is certainly not as universal as you imply. There are large areas unaffected.

4 hours ago, canopy said:

This means there is a pronounced dry time of the year and during this time months or even half a year can go by without a drop of rain. This is when burning is rampant and bad air accumulates to very grim levels.

Again true in some places, not generally true in others. It’s very much a geographical & meteorological phenomenon.

[kuma]

12 hours ago, canopy said:

There was advice given that is so important it is worth mentioning again. The air quality in Thailand is unhealthy for a substantial portion of the year. This is not a time to say oh whatever and sweep this information under the rug because air pollution is believed to damage every organ in the body.  Most of Thailand is a tropical savanna climate. This means there is a pronounced dry time of the year and during this time months or even half a year can go by without a drop of rain. This is when burning is rampant and bad air accumulates to very grim levels. With air quality monitoring stations we can now see in real time just how dire the situation is since PM2.5 particles are so small they are invisible to the human eye and also very bad to health since they go right through the lungs and into the bloodstream. When the air gets bad visibility diminishes, schools close, airplanes in some instances can't land, hundred of thousands head for the hospitals, the government sprays water in the air in vain, people are told not to exercise, and people die of respiratory diseases. Thailand in our century is not a good place to try to build a passive cooling lifestyle around. Maybe it was before and one day will be again. For now if health is important to you, you need to seal your house tight, turn on the AC, and turn on a hepa air purifier. There is no other way unfortunately.

 

And there is yet another problem with passive that may well be even bigger--the noise. All the way to the most out of the way spot in the country unnecessary man made noise is extremely high; an astounding variety of noisy loudspeakers pointing at you, modified motorcycles, barking dogs, weed trimmers, and so on--horrendous noise is everywhere. Noise also takes its toll on human health because it over works the brain and denies it rest it needs to replenish. You need a way to not just close the pollution out, but also the noise.

 

I agree air quality is a key consideration. That was a major factor in deciding on the south east for us, quite rainy here, fruit and aquaculture predominate and both are not subject to lots of burn, and lots of wind to move things along...but yes in previous years during winter the pollution from heating for 1b+ people takes a toll here. We have a pair of air filters but for the most part leave the windows open unless it is very bad. Noise not a concern here luckily.

Cheers

[Yellowtail]

If I were terrified of breathing the outside air and just wanted to stay in an air conditioned room with an air purifier all day I would just move into an old folks home. 

[canopy]

11 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

If I were terrified of breathing the outside air and just wanted to stay in an air conditioned room with an air purifier all day I would just move into an old folks home. 

To each his own, but certainly not required. There will be times of the day or year pollution and noise are not a problem. During these times a passive approach may be ideal. And there will also be times pollution and noise are a health hazard. Ignoring the truth and trying to pretend it isn't happening is bad and unnecessary, but sadly commonplace. One can make a home capable of quiet and safe air inside when you need it and in Thailand the chances of that being a god send to your wellness over and over again is just about 100%. Everyone's top 3 priorities of building in Thailand should be to account for:

 

#1 the pollution

#2 the noise

#3 the weather

 

In that order. If you don't consider these things carefully, you might find yourself starting these infinite threads moaning about these things. Not considering these things is a very common building mistake, surely over 90 of homes do not properly consider these crucial factors to health and happiness.

 

[Yellowtail]

On 10/14/2020 at 9:00 AM, canopy said:

To each his own, but certainly not required. There will be times of the day or year pollution and noise are not a problem. During these times a passive approach may be ideal. And there will also be times pollution and noise are a health hazard. Ignoring the truth and trying to pretend it isn't happening is bad and unnecessary, but sadly commonplace. One can make a home capable of quiet and safe air inside when you need it and in Thailand the chances of that being a god send to your wellness over and over again is just about 100%. Everyone's top 3 priorities of building in Thailand should be to account for:

 

#1 the pollution

#2 the noise

#3 the weather

 

In that order. If you don't consider these things carefully, you might find yourself starting these infinite threads moaning about these things. Not considering these things is a very common building mistake, surely over 90 of homes do not properly consider these crucial factors to health and happiness.

 

 

Well, I've been here twenty years and they haven't really bothered me much so far so I'm not going to get too caught up worrying about it now. 

[kuma]

Great to see still active participation and great discussion. The mix of perspectives is useful.

We have decided on a qconn house, raised 1m for ventilation, cooling, critter proofing and flood protection. 

Wife and the builder pressing me to put a cement pad under the house perimeter. I can understand it simplifies maintenance and makes it easier to use for storage, clean easier etc.

I was thinking to keep it as dirt...believing that cenent would attract and absorb heat, would still require cleaning, and would not necessarily stop critters coming...the warm cement would likely attract morning snakes looking to warm up.

Understand earth bed would need lots of attention to kerp weed growth down etc, but think it would keep the heat down better, and stop me from using it too much as a storage option....dont want to end up with a junkyard under there...lol.

Thoughts appreciated.

Cheers

 

[kuma]

Also I did commit to an update of statys as we progress. So here is the plot about 6.days before we break ground. 

Rain has been unrelenting this year, in a area already classed as semi-monsoonal, so it is soaked. I did turn the soil with a 50cm bucket on a macro, but the weeds are back with a vengenance, no stopping them lol. There are durian, lime, mango, banana and more planted there, but almost cannot see thwn for the jungle. 

Next week we kick off, unless there is a rain delay.

 

[kuma]

14 minutes ago, kuma said:

Great to see still active participation and great discussion. The mix of perspectives is useful.

We have decided on a qconn house, raised 1m for ventilation, cooling, critter proofing and flood protection. 

Wife and the builder pressing me to put a cement pad under the house perimeter. I can understand it simplifies maintenance and makes it easier to use for storage, clean easier etc.

I was thinking to keep it as dirt...believing that cenent would attract and absorb heat, would still require cleaning, and would not necessarily stop critters coming...the warm cement would likely attract morning snakes looking to warm up.

Understand earth bed would need lots of attention to kerp weed growth down etc, but think it would keep the heat down better, and stop me from using it too much as a storage option....dont want to end up with a junkyard under there...lol.

Thoughts appreciated.

Cheers

 

One other point I forgot. Another option ia to dog down a few cm and put in a pvc style barrier, then cover with crushed stone. To me the correct stone (hin gret is one type) would deter snakes, aloow it to be cooler than cement, but not breathing fully due to vapour barrier, and require little weeding again due to vapour barrier. If anyone has done/seen/considered that, would be great to get input.

Cheers

[Yellowtail]

I would go with concrete. You want eaves/awnings that shade the perimeter anyway. 

 

A dog will keep the snakes away.

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, kuma said:

was thinking to keep it as dirt...

No reason to put concrete now. But you will eventually. ????

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

2 hours ago, kuma said:

was thinking to keep it as dirt...

No reason to put concrete now. But you will eventually. ????

Not necessarily, we haven’t and won’t. But we do have a 2.5 metre overhang and gutters.

the only concrete going to ground level are the bottoms of the stairs, the ramp up to the workshop and car park area.

Edited October 18, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[kuma]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I would go with concrete. You want eaves/awnings that shade the perimeter anyway. 

 

A dog will keep the snakes away.

Ha dogs we have...too many lol. Actually maybe more reason for no concrete....not so comfortable ...dont want it to be a dog resort haha. Both good points...we will add awnings, and have some natural block to the east already witg trees, should keep sun blocked till 11:00+. Cheers

[kuma]

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

No reason to put concrete now. But you will eventually. ????

This is what I ponder now...if so then perhaps best to do now.

Cheers

[kuma]

52 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not necessarily, we haven’t and won’t. But we do have a 2.5 metre overhang and gutters.

the only concrete going to ground level are the bottoms of the stairs, the ramp up to the workshop and car park area.

Wood

Thanks for sharing, i was hoping there were members that tried this route. How do find it works? Do you do weeding etc? Do you find it helps with cooling, air flow, dog n critter repulsing lol.

Cheers, great looking house. I will have less ovdrhang and try retractable awnings to help with the view on days the sun relents...which is often here

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, kuma said:

Wood

Thanks for sharing, i was hoping there were members that tried this route. How do find it works? Do you do weeding etc? Do you find it helps with cooling, air flow, dog n critter repulsing lol.

Cheers, great looking house. I will have less ovdrhang and try retractable awnings to help with the view on days the sun relents...which is often here

 

The roof overhang restricts the amount of water, which means that the grass/weeds don’t thrive, apart from where the AC drains.
 

We still get the odd scorpion, though how they get in I don’t know, we’ve had about 1 a year. 
 

The Geese probably keep the dogs away, again occasionally there’s a dog. Our cat hunts the geckos and snakes, she likes to bring them to us if she doesn’t eat them.

 

I can’t really tell much difference about airflow and temperature, apart from the obvious point that the airflow is there and the floor temperature is possibly slightly higher in the hot season.

 

So the wildlife are much less than in a house on the ground.

 

[kokesaat]

My 24 year experience living in a house we built outside of Udon.

Keep sun off of windows/patios at all costs.  Long overhangs, carport on western side of house.  E/W orientation with carport on western side.  Eastern side will receive lots of morning sun, so you either need lots of overhang there or a row of palms planted close to the house.  We underestimated the morning sun......had a 2 meter overhang which wasn't enough.  Planted a long row of green palm, babysat them for 2 years and now have full shade there.

Install good roofing with insulation and insulate the ceiling.  

We pretty much keep our windows closed year round.....open the patio and kitchen doors when it's cool outside, but lockdown once the temp reaches 80 or so.  

We use inverter ACs as necessary........whatever room we're trying to cool at a time.  The lack of direct sun on the house (except the roof), the insulation, and whatever tree/palm cover you can provide will allow you to cool a room quickly, even in the hottest of temps.  

I've yet to see a 2 story house that can keep the sun off the upper floor.  

We had our builder construct a 2000liter water tank under the raised (1.5meter) portion of our house on the eastern side.  On the positive side, we have an abundance of cool water throughout the year, rather than a percolating water tank that's exposed to the sun.  On the negative side, during the coldest time of the year, our house water is cold.  I've explored ways to fix this, but by the time I get around to seriously considering a fix, the weather warms up again.  

Buttoning up the house has several positives:  rare that we see a mosquito or gecko inside our house, although the air quality is good in our area, when it's not, it's not a problem inside the house, humidity level is controlled by the AC year round.  It took us a few years to figure this out (buttoning up), but the pluses far outweigh the cons.  

 

[bodga]

On 10/5/2020 at 3:44 PM, KarenBravo said:

I think that experience and common sense indicates that houses that have a through breeze are cooler than houses with no breeze. That is based on my 40+ years in the tropics.

are  cooler  or  feel cooler

[bodga]

30 minutes ago, kokesaat said:

or a row of palms planted close to the house.

dont  let  any  greenery  touch  the  walls, rats  climb up  it

[bodga]

I  took a  different approach to many, 

1  build a small house with lower ceilings, my  house is 50m2 but my land is 16 rai

2  double  block  walls all round including internals

3  build on the ground not on stilts ground under house is  permanently in shade i dont want 40c+ air  blowing under it

4 insulate  loft well and ventilate it

5  surround house with palms but dont let them touch the house for rat infestation

6  small house with low ceilings =1 x 10k aircon running all day night coolc  the  entire  house except for maybe a few  weeks  each year, bill each month varies from 1000 to 2000 in the hottest 2  months set at 26c generally its around 1000 but when temps go to 41c its 2000 thats usually april may time only.

7 seal  all holes, I get NO  jing  joks and never  open windows, all entrance  doors (one) have brush  fittings changed after 3  years as they degrade

8 dont paint your house in any dark  colour white or pale cream, dont use dark roofing material either again white or very pale

You cannot lower ambient air temperature/humidity without aircon. What you can do is trap  cooler night air  then seal up all doors  windows  in the day,  all the people venting  must have a lovely time with jing  joks, mosquitos and gawd  knows what else.

There are many climatic  zones in Thailand, my  house was built  for my  climate which is Hua  Hin area, ooop North will be totally different requirements

Do  not have lights  on in your porch  covered  areas this  attracts  even more jing  joks  mozzies etc I  have small windows pvc.

Edited October 18, 2020 by bodga

[ChakaKhan]

On 10/4/2020 at 8:53 PM, Lacessit said:

Ensure the roof space is vented properly, otherwise it's a heat trap. Either double cavity walls, or as other posters have said, wide eaves to keep the sun off. Thickest insulation in the roof cavity.

confirmed as I lived on top floor...right below the trapped roof air.....the walls are even hot past midnight

[bodga]

On 10/4/2020 at 11:33 AM, Richrd said:

I'm in the final stages of building a 2 bed condo

line  the  external  walls  with  foam  backed  plasterboard  throughout

[bankruatsteve]

10 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not necessarily, we haven’t and won’t.

I must have missed something.  I was thinking the space was large enough to hang out versus a crawl space.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

I must have missed something.  I was thinking the space was large enough to hang out versus a crawl space.

A cement floor on the bottom Level of a house on stilts is useful and good.

 

However cement on the ground beside the house is a different matter, some people will want it to keep the rain from splashing the earth up when it rains as they have fallen for the no gutter fashion. They don’t appreciate the point that concrete is an excellent heat store, so unless it’s not exposed to the sun it’s a poor choice as a storage radiator beside your house is exactly what you do not want.

[KarenBravo]

5 hours ago, bodga said:

are  cooler  or  feel cooler

Are cooler. House is usually three degrees cooler on average. four degrees if its around 35C.

Are cooler, or feels cooler. What's the difference in experience? Probably a bit of both.

[bodga]

6 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Are cooler. House is usually three degrees cooler on average. four degrees if its around 35C.

Are cooler, or feels cooler. What's the difference in experience? Probably a bit of both.

because if  you stand outside on a still day at 35c  with no wind  youll  feel  hot and sweaty if you stand in the same place on a windy day you  will feel cooler even though the temps are exactly  the same, thats evaporative  cooling of  your skin.

Edited October 19, 2020 by bodga

[bodga]

12 hours ago, bodga said:

line  the  external  walls  with  foam  backed  plasterboard  throughout

INSIDE obviously????

[kuma]

21 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The roof overhang restricts the amount of water, which means that the grass/weeds don’t thrive, apart from where the AC drains.
 

We still get the odd scorpion, though how they get in I don’t know, we’ve had about 1 a year. 
 

The Geese probably keep the dogs away, again occasionally there’s a dog. Our cat hunts the geckos and snakes, she likes to bring them to us if she doesn’t eat them.

 

I can’t really tell much difference about airflow and temperature, apart from the obvious point that the airflow is there and the floor temperature is possibly slightly higher in the hot season.

 

So the wildlife are much less than in a house on the ground.

 

Hey Wood

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it. I am going the same route and leaving the ground unfinished. We do have a significant number of snakes in this area, so will look to the dogs/cats to do their thing

I will start with just 0.5m over hang on the sides, 2m on the front and back - but will add awnings once we get a feel for how the place feels.

I also intend to put the compressor under the house, maybe will make a it of a tray for it to sit in to keep that water from being a pest

Have a great day.