Thai's are special. And we are not.

[KhaoNiaw]

13 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I simply don't believe those stats.  Do you have a link?  Any evidence of these numbers?  

 

There are millions of Thai's that were born in Bangkok, raised in Bangkok, and live in Bangkok, with no link to a rural area, except maybe for generations in the past.  How far do we go back?

Not far off - just 3 million at the beginning of the 1970s: https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22617/bangkok/population
The point is that a lot of those people have kept their ties to the local areas. You're really not going back that far. My ex-wife had an older sister who hadn't been home for years but she had a restaurant in Bangkok that was a focal point for a lot of people from the home village and district. Young ones arriving in Bangkok for the first time would rock up there. People just in town for a few days would stay there. She'd get merit-making envelopes sent down for local events to distribute to the people in Bangkok and gather them up to send back. That was all fairly informal but some areas have more formal Bangkok associations. The ties will begin to weaken no doubt but I'd say there are still way more people that have ties to a local area than see themselves as pure Bangkokians. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by KhaoNiaw

[Pravda]

My ex wife has a good job working for Siemens BTS project. Has worked for them 15 years. She kept telling me that if she ever loses her job she'll just go back to her village. 

[Leaver]

8 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Not far off - just 3 million at the beginning of the 1970s: https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22617/bangkok/population
The point is that a lot of those people have kept their ties to the local areas. You're really not going back that far. My ex-wife had an older sister who hadn't been home for years but she had a restaurant in Bangkok that was a focal point for a lot of people from the home village and district. Young ones arriving in Bangkok for the first time would rock up there. People just in town for a few days would stay there. She'd get merit-making envelopes sent down for local events to distribute to the people in Bangkok and gather them up to send back. That was all fairly informal but some areas have more formal Bangkok associations. The ties will begin to weaken no doubt but I'd say there are still way more people that have ties to a local area than see themselves as pure Bangkokians. 

The 70's was 50 years ago.  What's that, two generations ago?  You are talking the Vietnam War time, when I am sure many rural times migrated to Bangkok for "work."  

 

How much land has been bought and sold in rural Thailand since then?  

 

I appreciate your personal account, but at what stage does a Thai in Bangkok become a Bangkokian?  I mean, religion aside, we can all go back to the apes in Africa, but is that realistic? 

 

I understand ID Card addresses and voting registration is not a good indication of where Thai's actually reside, let alone call home, but I do dispute 8 million Thai's out of 10 million Thai's living in Bangkok are from rural Thailand, within their own generation.  

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, Pravda said:

My ex wife has a good job working for Siemens BTS project. Has worked for them 15 years. She kept telling me that if she ever loses her job she'll just go back to her village. 

Once again, how far do we go back?  

 

I have no doubt there are millions of Thai's from rural areas working in Bangkok, as they are in the southern tourist areas. (pre Covid)

 

I simply dispute the 80% statistic, which is about 8 million people out of the 10 million inhabitants of Bangkok.

[KhaoNiaw]

9 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I understand ID Card addresses and voting registration is not a good indication of where Thai's actually reside, let alone call home, but I do dispute 8 million Thai's out of 10 million Thai's living in Bangkok are from rural Thailand, within their own generation.  

I think the original idea was focused more towards the number of people who retain ties to local areas. As I recognized before, a lot of people will now be permanent Bangkok residents but they still retain ties to local areas. I have friends who were born and grew up in Bangkok but still send their children up to the village for the summer holidays. So if you want to talk about formal residency, I would agree with you. But in terms of family and local relationships, I think you'll still find a lot of strong ties.  

[sanuk711]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yep,

Back in the UK if the lorries stopped stocking Tesco/ASDA/Waitrose most of the population would be dead in 2 weeks.

They may be dead BritMan......but I am sure you can still hear a faint whining................

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

Bangkok has approximately 10.5 million people.

 

Are you suggesting round 8 million of them are from rural areas of Thailand?  

I am suggesting these 8 millions have at least one member of the family still in

a rural area where they can return if it's necessary

it's maybe 7 millions or 9 millions, i don't have the exact numbers but i am absolutely

sure the bangkokians with no any member of the family in a rural area are a minority

and are probably among the wealthiest

[Moonlover]

6 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

I'm often wondering why Thais have an apostrophe and written Thai's. 

If you're observant, which you appear to be, you'll realize that the apostrophe is the least understood and the most often misused punctuation mark on this forum. Missing it out altogether being the most common mistake. ????

 

[Nout]

I agree with the OP. A remarkable people.

[Leaver]

10 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

I am suggesting these 8 millions have at least one member of the family still in

a rural area where they can return if it's necessary

it's maybe 7 millions or 9 millions, i don't have the exact numbers but i am absolutely

sure the bangkokians with no any member of the family in a rural area are a minority

and are probably among the wealthiest

As I said, we all have "family members" from the jungles of Africa, from millions of years ago.  

 

Does that mean a family of apes in Uganda will welcome me back?

 

Seriously, how far back are we going?  Millions of the Bangkokians are astranged to any distant relatives still on the farm land.  

 

Do many of them have a blood line tracing back to the land, no doubt they do, but can 8 million of them retreat back to that rural land next week, and to relatives they have never met, I seriously doubt it, unless bearing gifts.  ????

[teacherclaire]

6 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

The ''real'' Thailand is still populated mostly with poor, often uneducated farmers and their families.

From my experience they are often great people, money and education alone aren't enough to make

 ''great people'' imo

 

Do you think that you will not find poor and uneducated people in America, the UK, Germany, Spain, Greece, and a few more other countries almost all? 

 

 Look at Laos and Myanmar, Thailand must be around 30 years ahead because of the tourism, there's no doubt about it. 

 

Yes, you're right; there are plenty of good people around who seem to be educated people.

[kingofthemountain]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

As I said, we all have "family members" from the jungles of Africa, from millions of years ago.  

 

Does that mean a family of apes in Uganda will welcome me back?

 

Seriously, how far back are we going?  Millions of the Bangkokians are astranged to any distant relatives still on the farm land.  

 

Do many of them have a blood line tracing back to the land, no doubt they do, but can 8 million of them retreat back to that rural land next week, and to relatives they have never met, I seriously doubt it, unless bearing gifts.  ????

No need to go back to prehistoric ages

the Thai migration from the rural areas to Bangkok is a recent phenomenon

for a lot of reasons (Religious, historic. economic...) the family and the roots

(The place where you are from, not the place where you live at the moment)

are very important for a Thai, so it should take more than 2 or 3 generations

to forget the link with the village.

[teacherclaire]

Does that mean a family of apes in Uganda will welcome me back?

 

    I'm very positive on that. They'll do that and shake hands. 

[Leaver]

32 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

No need to go back to prehistoric ages

the Thai migration from the rural areas to Bangkok is a recent phenomenon

for a lot of reasons (Religious, historic. economic...) the family and the roots

(The place where you are from, not the place where you live at the moment)

are very important for a Thai, so it should take more than 2 or 3 generations

to forget the link with the village.

A reference point in time was posted by another member as 1970, which I said, was Vietnam War time, which I agree would have seen a lot of rural Thai's migrate to Bangkok for "work."

 

That's roughly two generations ago.  

 

Maybe some of the old folk, very old folk, still have contact, but I doubt the first generation Thai's do, and very much doubt the second generation Thai's do.  

 

I accept the point being made, just question the 80% figure, which is roughly 8 million people, but more than that, question if they still know anyone back in the village, and if they would be welcomed there in harsh times seeking refuge.  

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Leaver

[kingofthemountain]

25 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

Do you think that you will not find poor and uneducated people in America, the UK, Germany, Spain, Greece, and a few more other countries almost all? 

Afaik we are talking about Thailand here

 

25 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

Look at Laos and Myanmar, Thailand must be around 30 years ahead because of the tourism, there's no doubt about it. 

Thailand is not 30 years ahead because of the tourism, wich was a tiny part of the 

ecomomy untill the last 10 years.

It's because Thailand was the world's factory before the rise of China

Big companies from Japan, South korea and USA have done much more for

the Thai economy than all the tourists

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[kingofthemountain]

13 minutes ago, Leaver said:

A reference point in time was posted by another member as 1970, which I said, was Vietnam War time, which I agree would have seen a lot of rural Thai's migrate to Bangkok for "work."

 

That's roughly two generation go.  

 

Maybe some of the old folk, very old folk, still have contact, but I doubt the first generation Thai's do, and very much doubt the second generation Thai's do.  

 

I accept the point being made, just question the 80% figure, which is roughly 8 million people, but more than that, question if they still know anyone back in the village, and if they would be welcomed there in harsh times seeking refuge.  

From my experience the Thais return to see the family still at the village 

at least one time each year, for Songkrahn.

 

They pay respect to the elders and make merits at the local temple

 

it's also very comon to leave the children at the village during the 2 months long school holiday

the parents are busy to work in Bangkok and they can not take care of the children all day long

plus in an urban area it's not fun for the youngest, the village is much more secure and fun.

 

To have someone to take care of the childs in Bangkok all day long cost a lot and it's

not easy to find a trustworthy person, plus most of the time the childs stay in front of the TV

not the best thing, hence the ''village option''

 

It's become more difficult when the children are teenagers, the village isn't fun anymore and

they prefer to stay in the big city with their friends.

The point is the link with the village is still here, the parents go here at least 2 times for the children at the begining and at the end of the holiday

Edited October 10, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

it's also very comon to leave the children at the village during the 2 months long school holiday

the parents are busy to work in Bangkok and they can not take care of the children all day long

You are talking about current day domestic migrant workers.

 

Are you suggesting 80% of Bangkok's inhabitants are domestic migrant workers?  That's around 8 million people.  

[473geo]

6 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You are talking about current day domestic migrant workers.

 

Are you suggesting 80% of Bangkok's inhabitants are domestic migrant workers?  That's around 8 million people.  

You appear to overlook one important factor, in Thailand finding employment in the metropolis is very much a who you know situation, this ensures communication channels to the family/village and rural areas are kept open, a situation that works well for both the potential employee and employers, an integral part of the rural 'supply chain'

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, 473geo said:

You appear to overlook one important factor, in Thailand finding employment in the metropolis is very much a who you know situation, this ensures communication channels to the family/village and rural areas are kept open, a situation that works well for both the potential employee and employers, an integral part of the rural 'supply chain'

I haven't overlooked it, I am questioning the 80% figure put forward by another member.  

 

I simply don't think it's 8 out of 10 Thai people living in Bangkok.  

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

You are talking about current day domestic migrant workers.

 

Are you suggesting 80% of Bangkok's inhabitants are domestic migrant workers?  That's around 8 million people.  

Nope

that's not what i writed, 

A lot of them are maybe domestics migrants workers but not the 8 millions

The youngers born in Bankgok are bangkokians, but their parents

were domestics migrants workers, so the grandparents are still in the

village. Do you think a lot of the elder have moved to the big city with

their children and grandchildren when they were coming here for work?

i don't think so, all the old people are still in the villages, most of them helped

with the money send by the children ( Or do you think the goverment ''pension''

of 600 bahts\month is enough? )

The Thai society is mostly based on a complex exchange of services and money with

an invisible net of relations in the family, at work, in the village, and so on

For a Thai it's near to impossible to exist and succeed as an individual person with no help

from his network of relationship, and the village is the first step on the way.

[Pravda]

9 hours ago, Pravda said:

My ex wife has a good job working for Siemens BTS project. Has worked for them 15 years. She kept telling me that if she ever loses her job she'll just go back to her village. 

 

My current wife makes twice as much, both of her parents are Chinese, looks very presentable. 

 

Unlike my ex, however, both of her parents are struggling, own no land except a house in Bangkok and she keeps helping them with every medical need. She definitely has no village to go back to and is very straight forward about her desire to leave Thailand. My ex never wanted to teave Thailand and her end goal was to die back home. She was also never helping her parents financially. As a matter of fact when we married her parents bought us land and built a small house for us to live there. 

 

Too bad it's only now I understand Thai culture. They wanted me to give them a grandson and live in the village forever. Unfortunately that was never my plan. I do wake up at night having nightmares over this. Thanks for reading. Most of us don't belong in this country anyway. 

 

 

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

As I said, we all have "family members" from the jungles of Africa, from millions of years ago.  

Does that mean a family of apes in Uganda will welcome me back?

You may be descended from monkeys, but I'm descended from super intelligent aliens that crash landed on the earth thousands of years ago.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Probably not far off. Population was only 2-3 million in the 1970s. Most of the growth will be people who've come to the capital from rural areas. Yes, a lot will be permanently resident in Bangkok but often they keep the family ties going, visit once a year or once every few years, take the grandchildren to spend the school holidays 'at home', as well as staying in touch with other people from the village who are in Bangkok. 

Thank you for pointing out that most Thais have links to the land, unlike what some posters believe. Perhaps they confuse western city insanity with Thai self sufficiency.

[sidjameson]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You may be descended from monkeys, but I'm descended from super intelligent aliens that crash landed on the earth thousands of years ago.

Are you a golgafrinchim? I wouldn't call them advanced.

[Leaver]

18 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

The youngers born in Bankgok are bangkokians, but their parents

were domestics migrants workers, so the grandparents are still in the

village.

Are the grandparents still alive?

 

As preciously discussed, many migrated to Bangkok during the Vietnam War.  As you say, kids born in Bangkok are Bangkokians.  Is the land of their ancestors still held by family?

 

Once again, not disputing many living in Bangkok have close connections to rural Thailand, just disputing it's 80% of the current Bangkok population, which is around 8 million people.    

[Leaver]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You may be descended from monkeys, but I'm descended from super intelligent aliens that crash landed on the earth thousands of years ago.

Is that why Thailand calls all foreigners, "aliens?"  They must have missed out on the natural selection.  ????

[KhaoNiaw]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

Are the grandparents still alive?

 

As preciously discussed, many migrated to Bangkok during the Vietnam War.  As you say, kids born in Bangkok are Bangkokians.  Is the land of their ancestors still held by family?

 

Once again, not disputing many living in Bangkok have close connections to rural Thailand, just disputing it's 80% of the current Bangkok population, which is around 8 million people.    

You're really fixated on the 80% that someone threw out there. What number is acceptable to you and how you would you explain it in terms of Thai social relationships? I'd say that 80% is the very top end of a possible scale but I wouldn't mind betting it's not less than 70%. If 60% would make you happy then let's say it somewhere between 60-80%.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, KhaoNiaw said:

You're really fixated on the 80% that someone threw out there. What number is acceptable to you and how you would you explain it in terms of Thai social relationships? I'd say that 80% is the very top end of a possible scale but I wouldn't mind betting it's not less than 70%. If 60% would make you happy then let's say it somewhere between 60-80%.

Not after a figure to make me happy, just after the facts, not opinion put forwards fact. 

 

I disputed 80%, which you now agree upon.

 

I would be interested in the real data.  

[KhaoNiaw]

23 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Not after a figure to make me happy, just after the facts, not opinion put forwards fact. 

 

I disputed 80%, which you now agree upon.

 

I would be interested in the real data.  

I didn't disagree with you at any point. 80% was not my suggestion. I think it is possible but at the high end. You will no get 'real' data because you are talking about social links that I doubt have been measured. 
I actually typed quite a long post explaining to you why I believe strong links have been retained with the home areas from the 1970s generations arriving in Bangkok down to my daughter's generation, and that it will probably be my grandchildren's generation where the links really begin to loosen. But I've deleted it because it couldn't be reduced to statistics and you'd probably dismiss my observations as anecdotal ????

[kingofthemountain]

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

Not after a figure to make me happy, just after the facts, not opinion put forwards fact. 

 

I disputed 80%, which you now agree upon.

 

I would be interested in the real data.  

In this matter real data are impossible to have

precisely for the reason indicated in this link

https://www.britannica.com/place/Thailand/Rural-settlement

from the link above

''The dominant settlement pattern in Thailand remains the rural village, where the primary occupation is wet-rice cultivation. Migration to urban areas has increased significantly since the mid-20th century, but the majority of the country’s people still consider their principal place of residence to be the village, even when they live and work for extended periods in urban environments.''

...

''Internal migration, notably the movement of people from the countryside to Bangkok, has produced major changes in the society. Bangkok has received a major share of all interregional migrants, most from the central and northeast regions. Although roughly one-third of Thailand’s total population is classified as urban, the figure does not take into account the large number of people who work primarily in urban areas while still retaining official residence in their villages. As in most other regions of the world, these migrants are mainly young adults less than 30 years of age.''