Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[dimitriv]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Where does your home country rank?

 

In the top. Well above the UK. 

 

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Don't really see how any country in the top 20 could be considered 'weak'.

 

You are right, not as a country. But what matters is the income of people. I would prefer to live in a country with a $1 million economy and being the only citizen, and not in a country with a $10 million economy that must be shared between hundreds of people. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

And if the UK is 'weak', how come it was expected to contribute 25% of the EU funding.

 

That is Brexit nonsense.

 

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Obfuscation. Seems to me that the Euros are extremely upset this morning, they are not used to a country standing up to them.

The Germans weren't happy with us since we beat Hitler.

The French weren't happy with us since we beat Napoleon.

The Spanish weren't happy with us since we sunk their Armada.

 

We've had similar problems with the Dutch and Portuguese .......

Let's face it, they were never really our friends and the UK should never have entered into any deals with them. 

[izod10]

Uk only has to stand still and its 73 to 79 billion better off  (gbp)   Bulgaria will see the EU put to rights

[dimitriv]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

No mention of the French fishermen that will lose their jobs I see, you know the ones that Macron promised to protect. The problem with Macron that his arrogance and his ego is bigger than the Eiffel Tower.

 

This is exactly why it would be better for both sides to have a deal. Now the French fishermen will lose their jobs because they are not allowed to fish in UK waters, and the UK fishermen will lose their jobs because they cannot sell their fish to the EU anymore.

 

This could have been the deal, but it was refused by the UK.

 

 

[norfolkandchance]

It’s gone quiet up North.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

This is exactly why it would be better for both sides to have a deal. Now the French fishermen will lose their jobs because they are not allowed to fish in UK waters, and the UK fishermen will lose their jobs because they cannot sell their fish to the EU anymore.

 

This could have been the deal, but it was refused by the UK.

 

 

There was never going to be a deal with the likes of Macron, when you ask the impossible you end up with nothing. 

[Matzzon]

58 minutes ago, bodga said:

I see 20 weak  countries  bailed  out by a  very few stronger  ones, how do you see that

I see a massive unity against a single opposition/country. UK can no longer live on old untrue war stories. They needed help then and they need help now. Look at the pound, look at the pound!

However, I do also understand that as a patriot blinded by the sharp light of the little thing the general population of the world call reality it´s impossible to understand nor accept. Now go be good and clap your hands for Mr. Johnson before the inquisition of reality finally sinks what´s left of the ship.

[luckyluke]

30 minutes ago, vogie said:

But these are trade talks, we wish to buy and sell to the EU and vice versa, how simple is that. The complications set in when each of the 27 nations that makes up the EU are pulling in different directions, they cannot decide between themselves the best way to procede with these talks. 

They are not used to someone like Boris saying 'no', the last four years has been a total waste of time, we all knew that you cannot negotiate with an organisation like the EU, the sooner we walk the better and Macron will go down in history as the man that broke the EU.

A personal opinion/approach of the situation, which some in the U.K. and even in the E.U., agree with.

 

However, there are some in the U.K. & E.U. with a different opinion/approach.

In my world, one opinion has no less or more value than another.

 

I experienced regularly however in my life ( I am from 1948 ) that some consider their opinion as superior, and/or their approach of a situation as the only correct one.

 

[Rookiescot]

Bluff and bluster by Johnson. Does that man never learn? It has not worked so far and is not going to work now.

So have the trade talks been ended? No-one seems to know. It depends on who you speak to I guess.

Fishing eh? Which makes up 0.12% of the UK's GDP. And most of that is made up of fish sold to the EU. We are going to screw up a tariff free deal with our biggest trading partner over a couple of thousand spider crabs.

Fishing is not a big deal but brexiteers have been dog whistled into believing its critical. So we will have control of our waters but no market for the catches and also no access to EU waters either. 

Wait what? Those Johnny Foreigners are going to stop our plucky fishermen entering their waters? 

Now what is worth an awful lot of money is the UK's financial services. The EU is going to have that off us in the event of no deal.

However I do not believe the trade talks will be ended. I still think Johnson will capitulate. 

The EU will not allow the tail to wag the dog.

[izod10]

33 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Bluff and bluster by Johnson. Does that man never learn? It has not worked so far and is not going to work now.

So have the trade talks been ended? No-one seems to know. It depends on who you speak to I guess.

Fishing eh? Which makes up 0.12% of the UK's GDP. And most of that is made up of fish sold to the EU. We are going to screw up a tariff free deal with our biggest trading partner over a couple of thousand spider crabs.

Fishing is not a big deal but brexiteers have been dog whistled into believing its critical. So we will have control of our waters but no market for the catches and also no access to EU waters either. 

Wait what? Those Johnny Foreigners are going to stop our plucky fishermen entering their waters? 

Now what is worth an awful lot of money is the UK's financial services. The EU is going to have that off us in the event of no deal.

However I do not believe the trade talks will be ended. I still think Johnson will capitulate. 

The EU will not allow the tail to wag the dog.

Claptrap,utter tosh,not worth a read,never mind a print job as well

 good one Boris   really excellent

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

It is not acceptable the French controlling our waters, end of. 

Correct, 

One solution may be that the U.K. lease their waters to a specific amount of European fish boats, with a specific amount of fish allowed to been caught.

[BritManToo]

55 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Fishing is not a big deal but brexiteers have been dog whistled into believing its critical. So we will have control of our waters but no market for the catches and also no access to EU waters either. 

Many wars have been started over sovereignty.

I would certainly be prepared personally to kill invaders entering my land or seas.

Even if I didn't want to personally use the produce of that land/water. 

Encroachment was the reason for starting both WW1 and WW2.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Many wars have been started over sovereignty.

I would certainly be prepared personally to kill invaders entering my land or seas.

Even if I didn't want to personally use the produce of that land/water. 

Thats the spirit.

 

"They can take our lives but they can never take our spider crabs!!!!!".

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Correct, 

One solution may be that the U.K. lease their waters to a specific amount of European fish boats, with a specific amount of fish allowed to been caught.

If only you was negotiating Luke, we may have got somewhere, but we are not dealing with fair minded people here. They can give Canada a deal without any access to the waters around Nova Scotia, but the UK has to keep giving, we have given so much to the EU in the past 40 odd years we feel that there is nothing left to give.

Barnier et al doesn't give two hoots about the job losses in the EU, just as long as the great EU project and the federalisation of europe gathers momemtum.

[BritManToo]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

Thats the spirit.

"They can take our lives but they can never take our spider crabs!!!!!".

Being part of a defeated and conquered nation, you probably wouldn't understand the concept.

[AndrewMciver]

MAC makeup makes up more of economy than bloody fish.

 

Worst still the little fish we catch in the UK, we ship to Europe anyways. 

 

Fish make up 0.05% of our economy.

 

Get the hell out of town with this nonsense. 

 

As for state subsidies - it's almost laughable. The UK government over the course of the last 50 years has been one of the lowest state subsidised countries in the world. Compared to Germany or France the UK subsidises companies about 60% less. Again, it's a completely bizarre notion.

 

Rishi Sunak, the UK chancellor, said him sitting in a office was no way he could delegate which companies to subsidise. Yet we are meant to believe Dominic Cummings has a plan to subsidize robotos, etc - GET THE HELL OUT OF TOWN.

 

Supposed trade deal with the US will be over if Biden wins - especially if we break the Ireland deal. 

 

If we break the agreement we signed up for Northern Ireland we are even more screwed with the US and EU.

 

These xenophobes should be happy they have cut out of free movement. Now they are obsessed with fish. They won't stop till the whole economy has collapsed and we turn in to Khemer Rouge Cambodia, attempting to grow our own crops and become self sufficient. 

 

Ridiculous. 

 

I sit with these immigrants in Thailand who feel they are shielded from any hurt. Yet the UK Pound will fall close to 20% more if there is no deal. Ridiculous !!!!

 

I still see no upsides to all this madness. Granted we have stopped immigration, and i'd say to at least 95% of those who voted Brexit that was the main issue. Now we got that. Now what - what do we hope to achieve?

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Being part of a defeated and conquered nation, you probably wouldn't understand the concept.

The UK is a defeated and conquered nation?

[AndrewMciver]

We've had 3 years to mould our economy to a new vision - but nothing has changed. 

 

Singapore on the Thames? Where's all the proposed tax cuts and plans?

 

UK becoming some sort of low tax haven? Where's the plan? 

 

Northern cities will be decimated if we have no trade deal with the EU - ironically the vast majority voted for Brexit. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 hours ago, rooster59 said:

However, Barnier and his British counterpart David Frost had agreed to speak again early next week, Downing Street said.

Boris is a clown, and clowns are bad at bluffing. The negotiations continue. The next deadline he backpedaled from. 

[david555]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Does anyone believe what the media says anymore, whatever the source, if we are to understand it, Lord Frost has told Mr Barnier not to bother coming unless the EU can try to understand the UKs position. Macron has said he still wants total fishing rights to the UKs waters and by anybodies standard that has to be an impossible ask. So when Macron said he wants to protect the French fishing industries, he has ended up with nothing and as the rest of the EU, so let's all clap for Mr Macron.

So unless Mr Barnier comes across on a rubber dinghy, he'll not be coming.

Like i told you a few times ....80 seats majority has not same  influence over the  channel as in H.O.C.... and even there start "crumbling " ...

 

[wombat]

er...thats why Tony Abbot was employed to walk UK through no deal arrangements the same as Australia has with the EU.
Stay tuned, the colonies to the rescue.

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, Victornoir said:

As said before, fishing is Macron's bait to get no-deal.

Apart from certain German manufacturers, the EU has no advantage in a trade agreement with its former outgoing partner. The objective is to take over the European part of UK financial activities, to eliminate a car competitor and to tax all UK exports.

In the other way, imports will also be taxed but it is the British consumer who will pay.

I also believe that Barnier had no-deal as unofficially mission and that he brilliantly achieved his goal.

It is not often that I agree with you (you may have noticed!) but I think that you have called this one right!

 

I would go on to say that if/when the European part of the UK's financial business is won by Paris or Frankfurt (and there will be a most entertaining fight to watch over just who gets it) whoever wins that one will doubtless then tax the living daylights out of it!

 

Whilst you may also be right about eliminating competition for certain (German) industries, tarriffs may well lead the British consumers to go elsewhere to buy things. That may cost those industries a substantial market! A little bit of cutting off ones nose to save ones face? But then M. Barnier is a Gaullist politician, and they have been doing that for the last 70 years!

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

If only you was negotiating Luke, we may have got somewhere, but we are not dealing with fair minded people here. They can give Canada a deal without any access to the waters around Nova Scotia, but the UK has to keep giving, we have given so much to the EU in the past 40 odd years we feel that there is nothing left to give.

Barnier et al doesn't give two hoots about the job losses in the EU, just as long as the great EU project and the federalisation of europe gathers momemtum.

Vogie, this is again the same mantra you proclaim :

Everything is the fault of the others.

As mention before : fair, realistic, unacceptable,  are relative concepts and thus differently interpretable by each of us in particular.

One can come on and on with what he consider as fair, but on and on been rejected as unacceptable by the other party, which than will claim : the others always come with unacceptable propositions to us.

I don't know the concrete details of the negotiations, so can not express my opinion about it.

But out of experience, being confronted businessly  with negotiations, I dare to say that it is never one party which is to blame.

Only in the opinion/mind of radicals.

[david555]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

No mention of the French fishermen that will lose their jobs I see, you know the ones that Macron promised to protect. The problem with Macron that his arrogance and his ego is bigger than the Eiffel Tower.

I my god !...what a hurted ego now ???? as E.U. dare to say NO !  to the Albion ...????

 

 

[AndrewMciver]

13 minutes ago, wombat said:

er...thats why Tony Abbot was employed to walk UK through no deal arrangements the same as Australia has with the EU.
Stay tuned, the colonies to the rescue.

 

The Australians are about to sign a trade deal with the EU. 

 

 

[luckyluke]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Let's face it, they were never really our friends and the UK should never have entered into any deals with them. 

The U.K. has never been a country to take orders, to play the second violin.

Well giving orders, being unconditionally obeyed, playing first violin.

It was therefore doomed to fail.

It could have worked with my country and similar ones.

Never in a group with France and Germany in it.

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The Germans weren't happy with us since we beat Hitler.

The French weren't happy with us since we beat Napoleon.

The Spanish weren't happy with us since we sunk their Armada.

 

We've had similar problems with the Dutch and Portuguese .......

Let's face it, they were never really our friends and the UK should never have entered into any deals with them. 

Whilst I think that you may be somewhat over the top in going back to Napoleon, let alone the Dutch and the Portuguese (who are actually this countries oldest allies) I think that there is quite a lot of resentment over the UK in alone amongst the European Nations in standing up to the Germans in the last century, and being neither defeated or coming to an "accommodation" with the Third Reich, and in the major role which it played in liberating Western Europe, along with the subsequent effort  (and costs) which it spent over the next 3 decades in defending Western Europe from the threat of Soviet aggression. That resentment colours much of the European approach to the UK, as it does the UKs reaction to a "United Europe".

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

A personal opinion/approach of the situation, which some in the U.K. and even in the E.U., agree with.

 

However, there are some in the U.K. & E.U. with a different opinion/approach.

In my world, one opinion has no less or more value than another.

 

I experienced regularly however in my life ( I am from 1948 ) that some consider their opinion as superior, and/or their approach of a situation as the only correct one.

 

And with that you were saying what in regard to the information you quoted?

[Pedrogaz]

Hang in Boris. Screw trade deals. Just make sure our fisheries are safe from marauding French, Spanish and Portuguese trawlers.

[Pedrogaz]

40 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

MAC makeup makes up more of economy than bloody fish.

 

Worst still the little fish we catch in the UK, we ship to Europe anyways. 

 

Fish make up 0.05% of our economy.

 

Get the hell out of town with this nonsense. 

 

As for state subsidies - it's almost laughable. The UK government over the course of the last 50 years has been one of the lowest state subsidised countries in the world. Compared to Germany or France the UK subsidises companies about 60% less. Again, it's a completely bizarre notion.

 

Rishi Sunak, the UK chancellor, said him sitting in a office was no way he could delegate which companies to subsidise. Yet we are meant to believe Dominic Cummings has a plan to subsidize robotos, etc - GET THE HELL OUT OF TOWN.

 

Supposed trade deal with the US will be over if Biden wins - especially if we break the Ireland deal. 

 

If we break the agreement we signed up for Northern Ireland we are even more screwed with the US and EU.

 

These xenophobes should be happy they have cut out of free movement. Now they are obsessed with fish. They won't stop till the whole economy has collapsed and we turn in to Khemer Rouge Cambodia, attempting to grow our own crops and become self sufficient. 

 

Ridiculous. 

 

I sit with these immigrants in Thailand who feel they are shielded from any hurt. Yet the UK Pound will fall close to 20% more if there is no deal. Ridiculous !!!!

 

I still see no upsides to all this madness. Granted we have stopped immigration, and i'd say to at least 95% of those who voted Brexit that was the main issue. Now we got that. Now what - what do we hope to achieve?

Our fishing industry will expand rapidly without the merciless competition from the EU super trawlers.