Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

I am not a Remainer.

 

But seeing that the outcome was 52/48, in my opinion a simple majority wasn't a good idea, but I respect the results.

However I have problems with the attitude of some of the winners.

Stating "Vae victis",  is according to me not the right attitude in a 52/48 result.

 

I apologise profusely.

 

I think you need to understand that a lot of the "attitude" stems from pure frustration, seeing the whole process dragged out by the manipulative EU aided and abetted by Mrs. May and the opposition.

 

I was on the fence in the early days of voting, and had I got the chance to vote, would probably have gone for remain, for purely selfish reasons, proved correct with the decimation of the pound, costing us many tens of thousands of pounds extra for our house build in Thailand shortly following the vote.

 

However, seeing the way the EU have conducted themselves has tipped the balance for me, and I am firmly in the leave camp now. 

 

I'm not saying Boris has handled the situation perfectly by any means, predominantly the signing of the WA was a huge mistake, but at least he is on track to get it done. That will be a great relief to many businesses and individuals, knowing that there is some certainty to look forward to now.

[luckyluke]

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You should tell that to your EU ill-mannered "leadership", like Tusk and your EU pinup boy Verhofstadt.

We are all here, what I consider as "normal people" with different opinions.

 

In no way I want to be compared with politicians, who are a different/apart sort, similar to lawyers, thus not be trusted.

 

For  sure we all become once or more "overheat", but no one should regularly put himself to the low  level of a politician.

 

Things sometimes escalate, and a pity is that each party is convinced it is all the fault of the other.

 

It is sad  to have to notice there is such a  row, if not worse, between people for politic reasons.

 

I will personally put things on a rest.

 

I will wait and see the outcome next year.

 

 

 

 

[bannork]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Cameron warned the UK would be trading on WTO terms if talks failed after 2 years.  But the Brexit supporting MPs told the public a deal with the EU would be easy.

[bannork]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Cameron warned the UK would be trading on WTO terms if talks failed after 2 years.  But the Brexit supporting MPs told the public a deal with the EU would be easy.

[Mavideol]

2 minutes ago, Tofer said:

dragged out by the manipulative EU

it's very funny the majority of Brits always blame the EU for any wrong doing in the negotiating process.... and more funny the EU people reverse the blame back to the UK, who should we believe, who's telling the truth? from where I stand I see BJ, Grove & Cummings just pouring more gas on the fire

[polpott]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Highly doubtful you get another one within the next 15 years, but even if you get another one and win it will be 1-1. We'd need a tiebreaker to be sure. 

NO, 2-1. We had one in 74 when leaving was rejected. By a much bigger margin I might add.

 

 

[polpott]

26 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Condemned at the time by Brexiteers as "Project fear". Show me where a member of the leave campaign said that.

 

Thanks for reminding us how many of those "project fear" pronouncements came true.

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, bannork said:

Cameron warned the UK would be trading on WTO terms if talks failed after 2 years.  But the Brexit supporting MPs told the public a deal with the EU would be easy.

It does not matter one iota what is shown to the remainers they turn and twist the evidence, Cameron was the top man at the time yet you choose to believe his subordinates, being selective in who you believe is part of being a remainer. You have it from the horses mouth, I cannot find anyone that outranks him so what he said should be taken as gospel.

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, polpott said:

NO, 2-1. We had one in 74 when leaving was rejected. By a much bigger margin I might add.

 

 

Still advertised as the Common Market then.

 

9 minutes ago, polpott said:

Condemned at the time by Brexiteers as "Project fear". Show me where a member of the leave campaign said that.

 

Thanks for reminding us how many of those "project fear" pronouncements came true.

What are you talking about now?

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

It does not matter one iota what is shown to the remainers they turn and twist the evidence, Cameron was the top man at the time yet you choose to believe his subordinates, being selective in who you believe is part of being a remainer. You have it from the horses mouth, I cannot find anyone that outranks him so what he said should be seen as gospel.

Amen. LOL (emoji taking mandatory rest period).

[bannork]

34 minutes ago, vogie said:

It does not matter one iota what is shown to the remainers they turn and twist the evidence, Cameron was the top man at the time yet you choose to believe his subordinates, being selective in who you believe is part of being a remainer. You have it from the horses mouth, I cannot find anyone that outranks him so what he said should be taken as gospel.

As you know Cameron was a Remainer,  in that programne he was simply laying out to the public the consequences of talks failing after 2 years 

But all the prominent Brexiteers promised an easy deal.

The turkeys were all told there was no such thing as Christmas, life would be even better after Brexit because the turkeys held all the cards. Their owners since the 1970s would soon cave in, grain would still be the same price, plus the turkeys could wander anywhere!

They were told other animals were queuing up to exchange an unlimited variety of vegetables and cereals with the turkeys. They would be free, their self dignity restored, the glorious days of the past when they strutted around the farm pecking at smaller creatures would be restored.

Unfortunately for the turkeys Xmas is still on the calendar. 

 

 

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, bannork said:

As you know Cameron was a Remainer,  in that programne he was simply laying out to the public the consequences of talks failing after 2 years 

But all the prominent Brexiteers promised an easy deal.

The turkeys were all told there was no such thing as Christmas, life would be even better after Brexit because the turkeys held all the cards. Their owners since the 1970s would soon cave in, grain would still be the same price, plus the turkeys could wander anywhere!

They were told other animals were queuing up to exchange an unlimited variety of vegetables and cereals with the turkeys. They would be free, their self dignity restored, the glorious days of the past when they strutted around the farm pecking at smaller creatures would be restored.

Unfortunately for the turkeys Xmas is still on the calendar. 

 

 

 

I'm afraid the "turkeys" have lost that title to the remainers now, Boris has laid the Golden Egg and againgst all odds has extricated us from the vultures that are the EU. The Brexiteers are strutting about like peacocks now whilst the remainers are as dead as a dodo.????????????

[Susco]

Looks like Boris is still winning, according to the rest of the world.

 

Well, if he continues like this, at least the UK will have huge export figures, since everything will be almost for free for the outside world, and since the Brits will have a huge supply of fish they don't have to worry about a hunger death

 

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You need to stop bending the truth on the Canada subject. In 2017 the EU said a Canada style deal is on offer (in the so called 'Barnier slides') . In Feb 2020 Barnier told us that a Canada style deal is not available. (The EU are allowed to make u-turns? ????)

And Barnier didn't say a Canada deal is not available because the UK hasn't given them enough time. He said it's not available because the UK would be too much of a threat as a competitor (paraphrasing). 

indeed

 

This is indeed the opinion of Barnier and he is right given the short timeframe imposed by the UK. I guess you remember the famous slide (that you can find here)

 

....now even now what is there stopping the UK? OK, a Canada deal will take 1/years and 2/a competent team but instead of complaining there no canada deal, the UK can just do it.

 

The UE is a "negociating machine" and will never take the responsibility to shorten or interrupt negotiations.

 

So either the UK says OK let's work on a Canada deal and sets up the negotiation to effectively build this type of deal or stop complaining there is no Canada deal on the table as of today.

 

Because indeed there is no Canada deal on the table and it won't appear magically before the cliff edge.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, Susco said:

Looks like Boris is still winning, according to the rest of the world.

 

Well, if he continues like this, at least the UK will have huge export figures, since everything will be for free for the outside world, and since the Brits will have a huge supply of fish they don't have to worry about a hunger death

 

That's 1 cent in a week. High FOREX drama again? Give us a break.  

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

indeed

 

This is indeed the opinion of Barnier and he is right given the short timeframe imposed by the UK. I guess you remember the famous slide (that you can find here)

 

....now even now what is there stopping the UK? OK, a Canada deal will take 1/years and 2/a competent team but instead of complaining there no canada deal, the UK can just do it.

 

The UE is a "negociating machine" and will never take the responsibility to shorten or interrupt negotiations.

 

So either the UK says OK let's work on a Canada deal and sets up the negotiation to effectively build this type of deal or stop complaining there is no Canada deal on the table as of today.

 

Because indeed there is no Canada deal on the table and it won't appear magically before the cliff edge.

Short timeframe imposed by the UK? Hah. There's no time left after all the dithering by the UK remain element and EU for the last 4 years. The EU has not been interested in real negotiations; it has only been interested in delaying Brexit in hope that the UK would just give up and stay in.  

[Susco]

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That's 1 cent in a week. High FOREX drama again? Give us a break.  

Maybe you prefer this one.  Please remind us when the Brexit joke started.

 

[david555]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Short timeframe imposed by the UK? Hah. There's no time left after all the dithering by the UK remain element and EU for the last 4 years. The EU has not been interested in real negotiations; it has only been interested in delaying Brexit in hope that the UK would just give up and stay in.  

 the same as  the U. K. delayed ...hoping the E.U. would give in on the U.K. wishes...?

 

same same just bit different ????

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, Susco said:

Maybe you prefer this one.  Please remind us when the Brexit joke started.

 

Why not show us? I'm all ears:

 

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

 the same as  the U. K. delayed ...hoping the E.U. would give in on the U.K. wishes...?

 

same same just bit different ????

Not at all the same - read what I said again about the UK remain element (May + zombie parliament) - now she and they have gone the EU need to negotiate reasonably, if they truly want a deal .

[david555]

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not at all the same - read what I said again about the UK remain element (May + zombie parliament) - now she and they have gone the EU need to negotiate reasonably, if they truly want a deal .

That is just the point ....both sides hoping the other one would give in .... the E.U. already gave up on your staying a long time ...only U.K. did not give up on their wishfull  E.U. advantages ....they bloody nows good why i guess...

 

Face it...., it wont come to a deal .....only after the damages from cliff brexit ( for both % way ) mini deals "could"come on the horizon maybe...

[Surelynot]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nicola-sturgeon-scottish-independence-indyref2-brexit-snp-b1182018.html

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

34 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

indeed

 

This is indeed the opinion of Barnier and he is right given the short timeframe imposed by the UK. I guess you remember the famous slide (that you can find here)

 

....now even now what is there stopping the UK? OK, a Canada deal will take 1/years and 2/a competent team but instead of complaining there no canada deal, the UK can just do it.

 

The UE is a "negociating machine" and will never take the responsibility to shorten or interrupt negotiations.

 

So either the UK says OK let's work on a Canada deal and sets up the negotiation to effectively build this type of deal or stop complaining there is no Canada deal on the table as of today.

 

Because indeed there is no Canada deal on the table and it won't appear magically before the cliff edge.

You are wrong. The UK cannot just "do it". Barnier said in February 2020 a Canada style deal is not available. Please check this before you repeat the same inaccurate statement. 

 

In 2017 the Canada style deal was available. Now it is not. The goal posts were moved. 

 

 

[Hi from France]

28 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You are wrong. The UK cannot just "do it". Barnier said in February 2020 a Canada style deal is not available. Please check this before you repeat the same inaccurate statement. 

 

In 2017 the Canada style deal was available. Now it is not. The goal posts were moved. 

Now it's not

 

..unless the UK decides 1/to give time and 2/expertise for a line-by-line negotiation. 

 

I suppose you read the wiki article on CETA and you can tell us how long it takes to set up such a deal?

 

UE negociators believe that the UK negotiating team is not able to conduct such a negotiation. Now it's up to the Brits them to prove them wrong. 

 

Between the two choices given by Johnson, I wonder what is the best : a Canada deal which cannot be set up before years of work or an "Australian deal".

 

As before the WA, the UK is in a corner there's no way out. Aside from signing a deal and then reneging. 

 

The worst hurdle to conclude negotiations in the coming days (or much later it seems) is not fish, it's not the level playing field on an open market

.. it's the very strong likelihood the signature of the UK is worthless. 

 

How do you enter a deal with a party that is likely to cheat? This is a major game theory problem and I wonder what negociators will pull out of the hat. 

[CG1 Blue]

52 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Now it's not

 

..unless the UK decides 1/to give time and 2/expertise for a line-by-line negotiation. 

Show me proof that the EU is willing to let the UK have a Canada style FTA. Proof means someone significant saying it, like Barnier or Ursula. Barnier said in Feb 2020 that they won't give us a Canada FTA. This was widely reported if you care to do a Google search. 

 

If you can't show me any proof I'm not going to waste my time going round in circles with you. 

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Still advertised as the Common Market then.

 

What are you talking about now?

The Scottish independence referendum was advertised as remaining in the EU.

But somehow your hypocrisy blinds you to that fact. 

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Show me proof that the EU is willing to let the UK have a Canada style FTA. Proof means someone significant saying it, like Barnier or Ursula. Barnier said in Feb 2020 that they won't give us a Canada FTA. This was widely reported if you care to do a Google search. 

 

If you can't show me any proof I'm not going to waste my time going round in circles with you. 

Ceta is no good for the UK. It never was. It does not cover financial services. It does not cover fishing. It does not cover a myriad of things that the UK needs or the EU needs.

Why do you guys hold the Canada trade agreement aloft like its the holy grail?

It was never going to be relevant to the UK. It was also never mentioned during the leave campaigns lies and false promises.

Leave told us we would be remaining in the single market with a Norway type deal.

 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nicola-sturgeon-scottish-independence-indyref2-brexit-snp-b1182018.html

 

 

Why oh why were the poor Brexiteers not warned about this prior to the vote.

Surely if they had known and actually cared about the union they would have voted NO.

[Tofer]

3 hours ago, Mavideol said:

it's very funny the majority of Brits always blame the EU for any wrong doing in the negotiating process.... and more funny the EU people reverse the blame back to the UK, who should we believe, who's telling the truth? from where I stand I see BJ, Grove & Cummings just pouring more gas on the fire

It's very simple in my mind. The EU offered a Canada+++ deal, and then took it away once they got the WA signed. Followed by their ridiculous demands for the so called level playing field, the same access to UK waters and EUCJ jurisdiction. UK's position has never changed, a Canada style deal or no deal.

 

Or I am I wrong? Please tell me how you perceive the scenario to be any different.

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, polpott said:

NO, 2-1. We had one in 74 when leaving was rejected. By a much bigger margin I might add.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Still advertised as the Common Market then.

 

What are you talking about now?

 

24 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The Scottish independence referendum was advertised as remaining in the EU.

But somehow your hypocrisy blinds you to that fact. 

The still advertised as the common market was referring to the 1975 United Kingdom European Communities membership referendum

I am not aware of any Scottish independence referendum that took place in 1975 but if there was one maybe you could provide a link