Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[Rookiescot]

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Where to start?

 

Carney and the BOE led an anti Brexit campaign that was proved wrong on so many levels.

 

https://troymedia.com/world/carney-was-dead-wrong-about-brexit/#.X74Hc2gzbIU

 

https://fcpp.org/2020/01/04/goodbye-mark-carney-you-let-your-bias-get-the-better-of-you/

 

https://www.ft.com/content/2ec41698-f48f-11e7-a4c9-bbdefa4f210b

 

 

 

OK here we go. Troy Media? Anyway his most damning evidence is this.....

"In 2016, Carney started what felt like a scare campaign about the economic impacts of Brexit. In spring, before the referendum, he announced that the Bank of England would offer banks billions of pounds to avoid a financial crisis following the Brexit vote. Carney also suggested that voting to leave the European Union would result in major financial services quitting London. In a service economy, with London a major financial services hub, this was a hugely significant prediction."

Oddly enough all that has happened. It just took longer. Theres a number of reasons for that but chiefly its because the Brexiteers could not define what Brexit actually meant and everyone was in a position of wait and see. The banks were given billions of pounds via quantitive easing (printing money). 

Financial institutions and banks are moving assets to the EU.

 

On to the next one. FCCP? Anyway the most damning evidence is this.....

"In 2016, Carney started what felt like a scare campaign about the economic impacts of Brexit. In spring, before the referendum, he announced that the Bank of England would offer banks billions of pounds to avoid a financial crisis following the Brexit vote. Carney also suggested that voting to leave the European Union would result in major financial services quitting London. In a service economy, with London a major financial services hub, this was a hugely significant prediction"

Odd feeling of deja vu here. I seem to remember reading this somewhere before. Anyway 

all that has happened. It just took longer. Theres a number of reasons for that but chiefly its because the Brexiteers could not define what Brexit actually meant and everyone was in a position of wait and see. The banks were given billions of pounds via quantitive easing (printing money). 

Financial institutions and banks are moving assets to the EU.

 

I cannot read the FT link due to the fact its behind a paywall and I no longer subscribe to that newspaper.

 

So basically 2 of your 3 links are to right wing neoliberal nutjobs and contain EXACTLY the same article.

????

 

[JonnyF]

28 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

OK here we go. Troy Media? Anyway his most damning evidence is this.....

"In 2016, Carney started what felt like a scare campaign about the economic impacts of Brexit. In spring, before the referendum, he announced that the Bank of England would offer banks billions of pounds to avoid a financial crisis following the Brexit vote. Carney also suggested that voting to leave the European Union would result in major financial services quitting London. In a service economy, with London a major financial services hub, this was a hugely significant prediction."

Oddly enough all that has happened. It just took longer. Theres a number of reasons for that but chiefly its because the Brexiteers could not define what Brexit actually meant and everyone was in a position of wait and see. The banks were given billions of pounds via quantitive easing (printing money). 

Financial institutions and banks are moving assets to the EU.

 

On to the next one. FCCP? Anyway the most damning evidence is this.....

"In 2016, Carney started what felt like a scare campaign about the economic impacts of Brexit. In spring, before the referendum, he announced that the Bank of England would offer banks billions of pounds to avoid a financial crisis following the Brexit vote. Carney also suggested that voting to leave the European Union would result in major financial services quitting London. In a service economy, with London a major financial services hub, this was a hugely significant prediction"

Odd feeling of deja vu here. I seem to remember reading this somewhere before. Anyway 

all that has happened. It just took longer. Theres a number of reasons for that but chiefly its because the Brexiteers could not define what Brexit actually meant and everyone was in a position of wait and see. The banks were given billions of pounds via quantitive easing (printing money). 

Financial institutions and banks are moving assets to the EU.

 

I cannot read the FT link due to the fact its behind a paywall and I no longer subscribe to that newspaper.

 

So basically 2 of your 3 links are to right wing neoliberal nutjobs and contain EXACTLY the same article.

????

 

Funny how the BOE walked back on their own predictions yet you still back them. I'm not surprised you cancelled your subscription to the FT. Far too many facts for someone looking to say "I told you so" and talk down the UK at every opportunity. So sad wishing failure on your own country, I can't imagine the bitterness required to do such a thing. 

 

Just to Remind you...

 

 

 

Nice dodge on my original point BTW. Remind me again how Andrew Bailey's predictions are somehow facts?

[kingdong]

5 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Bank of England made it clear to the risks involved

 

Andrew Bailey talks Brexit, coronavirus and leaks in evidence to a committee of MPs as the economy reels from pandemic disruption.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-banks-bailey-warns-long-term-effects-of-no-deal-brexit-worse-than-virus-12140542

 

The Bank of England governor has warned that a no-deal Brexit would end up causing deeper long-term damage to the UK economy than the COVID-19 pandemic.

COVID-19: Bank of England warns long-term effects of no-deal Brexit worse than pandemic

With governors of the bank of englands track records,wouldn,t take too much notice of this.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Funny how the BOE walked back on their own predictions yet you still back them. I'm not surprised you cancelled your subscription to the FT. Far too many facts for someone looking to say "I told you so" and talk down the UK at every opportunity. So sad wishing failure on your own country, I can't imagine the bitterness required to do such a thing. 

 

Just to Remind you...

 

 

 

Nice dodge on my original point BTW. Remind me again how Andrew Bailey's predictions are somehow facts?

 

Nice that you completely ignored my reply and just posted the headline of the FT.

You posted 2 links with the same text from different rightwing neoliberal sources as evidence for what? The things the BoE got wrong? They didnt. It just took longer to happen because you Brexiteers couldnt decide what Brexit ACTUALLY means.

And that was in response to a post I made asking for links to what you Brexiteers have actually got right ????.

[7by7]

6 hours ago, Tofer said:

On 11/24/2020 at 12:35 PM, 7by7 said:

All trade agreements have standards and rules which both parties agree to. As the UK's standards and rules are the same as the EU's; what's the problem?

Exactly, so why then are the EU still holding out an a trade agreement if all our standards are the same as the EU?

You can ask that same question of the UK government. As I am not privy to what goes on around the negotiating table, I can't answer.

6 hours ago, Tofer said:

The problem is the EU want control past the Brexit transition period to impose any new rules they deem fit, as I said, in perpetuity.

 Does that sound like independent sovereignty to you?

It seems that you are privy to the negotiations! So tell us, what are the EU's demands exactly. How do they intend to deny us our sovereignty via their evil machinations?

 

Don't say you've already given examples; because so far you have only given unsubstantiated and easily disproven rumours.

 

6 hours ago, Tofer said:

A selective opinion, that conveniently ignores the EU's transgressions. See above.

Again I ask you; what transgressions? You claim that the EU have broken the WA because they are not negotiating fairly, but have been unable to provide any evidence of this.

 

Whereas the evidence of Johnson reneging on the WA is contained within the his Internal Market Bill.

 

6 hours ago, Tofer said:

 Can't be any worse than the present scenario, and we manage to catch the fish now. Then there will be all those European boats up for sale shortly, at a good price.

 

Hopefully the deal done with those countries will fulfil any shortfall we may find in need, to replace that from the EU's fishermen. 

 

We do not manage to catch the fish now as most of the fish we eat here in the UK is not caught in UK waters! Read the link to UK fisheries Q&A.

 

If EU boats are "raping our waters" as you put it, then there will be no shortfall!

6 hours ago, Tofer said:

And who exactly, set the fishing quotas that came out of those UK waters?

The EU; never denied that. But the UK will continue with quotas; see Flagship Fisheries Bill becomes law.

 

6 hours ago, Tofer said:

Where do I state that the British fishermen have been "sold out"??

When you crowed over the EU losing out to Iceland, Norway, Greenland and the Faroe Islands.

 

6 hours ago, Tofer said:

So you are proclaiming that the UK has given away the same amount of quota to those countries, as that which the EU have enjoyed / demanded over the last 40 years - rubbish.

Wasn't me who said it; it was you; here

Quote

The EU negotiators had better pull their fingers out, or at the current rate of obstinacy there'll be no allocations left for you to share in our waters, since UK have signed deals on fishing with both Norway and Iceland now.

Hence my oft repeated question which you have dodged again.

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Nice that you completely ignored my reply and just posted the headline of the FT.

You posted 2 links with the same text from different rightwing neoliberal sources as evidence for what? The things the BoE got wrong? They didnt. It just took longer to happen because you Brexiteers couldnt decide what Brexit ACTUALLY means.

And that was in response to a post I made asking for links to what you Brexiteers have actually got right ????.

They weren't wrong but it just took longer than they predicted? ????

 

You sound like the Bangkok governor who said Bangkok hasn't flooded, the water just hasn't left yet. You'd make a good Thai politician, I'm starting to think you actually believe what you type. A scary thought 55.

 

If I promised you 10 percent profit per annum on your investment and it took you 20 years to get that 10 percent I'm sure you'd be delighted when I told you I was correct all along, but it just took a bit longer to get your 10 percent ????. I'm glad I logged on now, that was hilarious. I'll have to remember that. Dont change the percentage just change the number of years it takes to reach that percentage. Your surname isn't Abbott by any chance is it? ???? that's absolute gold 555.

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

They didnt. It just took longer to happen because you Brexiteers couldnt decide what Brexit ACTUALLY means.

 

  Some people didnt understand "Leave means Leave" , like leave , completely leave .

  They seemed to think that leave meant leave a bit and stay in a bit 

[polpott]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Some people didnt understand "Leave means Leave" , like leave , completely leave .

  They seemed to think that leave meant leave a bit and stay in a bit 

That's because they were told that by the Brexit campaign. " leave means leave" was said by Cameron who headed the remain campaign and was immediately dismissed by the leave campaign as "Project Fear". Strange how most of what was dismissed as project fear has now come to fruition.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Some people didnt understand "Leave means Leave" , like leave , completely leave .

  They seemed to think that leave meant leave a bit and stay in a bit 

Including lots of Brexiters

 

"Mr Gove used a speech in London to set out his vision of what the country would look like in the event of a vote to leave the EU on 23 June.

On trading, he said the UK would be part of the European free trade zone with access to the European single market but "free from EU regulation which costs us billions of pounds a year".

Michael Gove sets out post-exit UK-EU trade vision - BBC News

[evadgib]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Including lots of Brexiters

 

"Mr Gove used a speech in London to set out his vision of what the country would look like in the event of a vote to leave the EU on 23 June.

On trading, he said the UK would be part of the European free trade zone with access to the European single market but "free from EU regulation which costs us billions of pounds a year".

Michael Gove sets out post-exit UK-EU trade vision - BBC News

In a clip dated 19 April 2016.

 

Here's a current press release dated today

UK and Malaysia agree to deepen trading relationship in first Joint Committee

Quote

Yesterday (Tuesday 24 November) the UK and Malaysia held the first Joint Committee on Bilateral Trade and Investment Cooperation.

 

[kingdong]

27 minutes ago, polpott said:

That's because they were told that by the Brexit campaign. " leave means leave" was said by Cameron who headed the remain campaign and was immediately dismissed by the leave campaign as "Project Fear". Strange how most of what was dismissed as project fear has now come to fruition.

What like the 2 odd million eu citizens who deserted the eu like rats deserting a sinking ship and are now resident in the uk?

[7by7]

16 minutes ago, evadgib said:

32 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Including lots of Brexiters

 

"Mr Gove used a speech in London to set out his vision of what the country would look like in the event of a vote to leave the EU on 23 June.

On trading, he said the UK would be part of the European free trade zone with access to the European single market but "free from EU regulation which costs us billions of pounds a year".

Michael Gove sets out post-exit UK-EU trade vision - BBC News

Expand  

In a clip dated 19 April 2016.

 Of course it's dated then; because that is just one of the many inaccurate things Leave campaigners told us in the campaign.

 

The last four and a bit years have shown us how wrong he and the rest of the Leave campaigners were.

 

16 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Here's a current press release dated today

UK and Malaysia agree to deepen trading relationship in first Joint Committee

How much will these agreements you delight in posting actually increase our trade?

 

As most of them are merely replacing the EU agreements under which we previously traded; not a lot!

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[7by7]

Just now, kingdong said:

What like the 2 odd million eu citizens who deserted the eu like rats deserting a sinking ship and are now resident in the uk?

 

What about the 1.8 million UK citizens resident in the EU? Were they rats deserting a sinking ship also?

 

Not to mention the UK citizens resident elsewhere; like Thailand for instance!

[kingdong]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

What about the 1.8 million UK citizens resident in the EU? Were they rats deserting a sinking ship also?

 

Not to mention the UK citizens resident elsewhere; like Thailand for instance!

Mostly retirees getting away from the weather who moved to sunnier climes in europe,as for the guests in the " los " i personally wouldn,t be viewing that as a long time  proposition.

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Mostly retirees getting away from the weather who moved to sunnier climes in europe,as for the guests in the " los " i personally wouldn,t be viewing that as a long time  proposition.

 

'Retirees?' Are you a Sceptic?

 

Worker or pensioner; they still left the UK.

[david555]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/25/von-der-leyen-eu-willing-to-be-creative-to-seal-brexit-deal

EU threatens to pull out of Brexit talks if UK refuses to compromise
Michel Barnier says further negotiations would be pointless if UK does not change stance

 

Daniel Boffey in Brussels
Wed 25 Nov 2020 15.04 GMTFirst published on Wed 25 Nov 2020 12.42 GMT

 

The EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has warned David Frost that without a major negotiating shift by Downing Street within the next 48 hours he will pull out of the Brexit negotiations in London this weekend, pushing the talks into a fresh crisis.

 

In talks via videoconference on Tuesday, Barnier told his British counterpart that further negotiations would be pointless if the UK was not willing to compromise on the outstanding issues.

 

Should Barnier effectively walk out on the negotiations it would present the most dangerous moment yet for the troubled talks, with just 36 days to go before the end of the transition period.

 

more...
 

[Rookiescot]

10 hours ago, JonnyF said:

They weren't wrong but it just took longer than they predicted? ????

 

You sound like the Bangkok governor who said Bangkok hasn't flooded, the water just hasn't left yet. You'd make a good Thai politician, I'm starting to think you actually believe what you type. A scary thought 55.

 

If I promised you 10 percent profit per annum on your investment and it took you 20 years to get that 10 percent I'm sure you'd be delighted when I told you I was correct all along, but it just took a bit longer to get your 10 percent ????. I'm glad I logged on now, that was hilarious. I'll have to remember that. Dont change the percentage just change the number of years it takes to reach that percentage. Your surname isn't Abbott by any chance is it? ???? that's absolute gold 555.

 

I bet all that sounded funnier in your head than it is for the rest of us.

Now if you could actually respond to my posts rather than posting complete nonsense that would be fantastic.

Oh and try and do so without linking to rightwing neoliberal nutjobs all copying and pasting each other.

Thanks in advance. 

[JonnyF]

17 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

I bet all that sounded funnier in your head than it is for the rest of us.

Now if you could actually respond to my posts rather than posting complete nonsense that would be fantastic.

Oh and try and do so without linking to rightwing neoliberal nutjobs all copying and pasting each other.

Thanks in advance. 

Morning Rookie.

 

I predicted Burnley would get 100 points last season and win the league. Now, you could possibly argue I was wrong about winning the league, but 'ironically' I was absolutely right about the 100 points, it just took them 2 seasons to do it ????.

 

That logic almost topped the time you claimed there had been 800,000 job losses due to Brexit, because you only included the job losses during the period and not the much larger number of jobs that replaced them, resulting in unemployment actually decreasing by several hundred thousand. Almost, but not quite. ????

 

You're entertaining, I'll give you that.

[JonnyF]

8 hours ago, david555 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/25/von-der-leyen-eu-willing-to-be-creative-to-seal-brexit-deal

EU threatens to pull out of Brexit talks if UK refuses to compromise
Michel Barnier says further negotiations would be pointless if UK does not change stance

 

Daniel Boffey in Brussels
Wed 25 Nov 2020 15.04 GMTFirst published on Wed 25 Nov 2020 12.42 GMT

 

The EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has warned David Frost that without a major negotiating shift by Downing Street within the next 48 hours he will pull out of the Brexit negotiations in London this weekend, pushing the talks into a fresh crisis.

 

In talks via videoconference on Tuesday, Barnier told his British counterpart that further negotiations would be pointless if the UK was not willing to compromise on the outstanding issues.

 

Should Barnier effectively walk out on the negotiations it would present the most dangerous moment yet for the troubled talks, with just 36 days to go before the end of the transition period.

 

more...
 

 

Excellent news. I would certainly encourage Michel to 'pull out' ASAP. He's been looking a bit flacid for a while now.

 

Shall we call you a taxi? I'd suggest first stop France to explain to the French fisherman that they are about to lose their livelihoods because of your failure to negotiate. Bon Voyage.

[david555]

21 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Excellent news. I would certainly encourage Michel to 'pull out' ASAP. He's been looking a bit flacid for a while now.

 

Shall we call you a taxi? I'd suggest first stop France to explain to the French fisherman that they are about to lose their livelihoods because of your failure to negotiate. Bon Voyage.

For once i agree with you , let's hope he keep his word more than the  #10 idle threatening Bojo ......so

the brexit soap farce ends here....

Edited November 26, 2020 by david555

[luckyluke]

14 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Excellent news. I would certainly encourage Michel to 'pull out' ASAP. He's been looking a bit flacid for a while now.

 

Shall we call you a taxi? I'd suggest first stop France to explain to the French fisherman that they are about to lose their livelihoods because of your failure to negotiate. Bon Voyage.

Only excellent news when the U.K. will let it happen. 

 

Pretty sure the French fishermen will get a compensation, maybe even better than what they get from their hard labour now. 

 

 

But these are speculations, we will have to wait & see. 

 

[Rookiescot]

49 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Morning Rookie.

 

I predicted Burnley would get 100 points last season and win the league. Now, you could possibly argue I was wrong about winning the league, but 'ironically' I was absolutely right about the 100 points, it just took them 2 seasons to do it ????.

 

That logic almost topped the time you claimed there had been 800,000 job losses due to Brexit, because you only included the job losses during the period and not the much larger number of jobs that replaced them, resulting in unemployment actually decreasing by several hundred thousand. Almost, but not quite. ????

 

You're entertaining, I'll give you that.

 

Well thats not how that conversation went but never mind. If it helps you to get through the long dark winter nights by remembering it as so then just you carry on tiger. 

[david555]

5 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Only excellent news when the U.K. will let it happen. 

 

Pretty sure the French fishermen will get a compensation, maybe even better than what they get from their hard labour now. 

 

 

But these are speculations, we will have to wait & see. 

 

"The city" go pay the fisherman's compensation i guess ....banks already moving icluding traders as Goldman Sachs ..... one snowball can created a avalanche 

Edited November 26, 2020 by david555

[Rookiescot]

26 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Excellent news. I would certainly encourage Michel to 'pull out' ASAP. He's been looking a bit flacid for a while now.

 

Shall we call you a taxi? I'd suggest first stop France to explain to the French fisherman that they are about to lose their livelihoods because of your failure to negotiate. Bon Voyage.

 

For once we agree. I think everyone is sick of trying to figure out what you Brexiteers actually want so lets just stop the charade. 

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Only excellent news when the U.K. will let it happen. 

 

Pretty sure the French fishermen will get a compensation, maybe even better than what they get from their hard labour now. 

 

 

But these are speculations, we will have to wait & see. 

 

 

Yes they may get compensation, paid for by EU taxpayers. Maybe they can compensate the German car workers as well, just pay them to sit around doing nothing instead of making the cars they used to sell to the UK. All paid for with EU money.

 

Let's see. My main concern right now is getting Barnier out of the negotiating room, his failure will be complete and we can all move on.

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

For once we agree. I think everyone is sick of trying to figure out what you Brexiteers actually want so lets just stop the charade. 

Did you forget to bookmark that post where I outlined it for you for the fifth time?

[JonnyF]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Well thats not how that conversation went but never mind. If it helps you to get through the long dark winter nights by remembering it as so then just you carry on tiger. 

 

29 and sunny here in Bangkok thanks. A beautiful morning as I drove to the office. 

 

Deny it by all means, or maybe you forgot again?

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yes they may get compensation, paid for by EU taxpayers. Maybe they can compensate the German car workers as well, just pay them to sit around doing nothing instead of making the cars they used to sell to the UK. All paid for with EU money.

 

Let's see. My main concern right now is getting Barnier out of the negotiating room, his failure will be complete and we can all move on.

 

The Germans will still be selling cars to the UK they will just be more expensive FOR the people in the UK.

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Did you forget to bookmark that post where I outlined it for you for the fifth time?

 

This is what you voted for right?

[luckyluke]

Just now, JonnyF said:

 

Yes they may get compensation, paid for by EU taxpayers. Maybe they can compensate the German car workers as well, just pay them to sit around doing nothing instead of making the cars they used to sell to the UK. All paid for with EU money.

 

Let's see. My main concern right now is getting Barnier out of the negotiating room, his failure will be complete and we can all move on.

Yes maybe, but further speculations of course. 

 

Usually speculations are positive or negative, depending on which side they are formulated. 

 

Just like Mr. Barnier will be considered as a master in negotiations, as well as a failure. 

 

A matter of perception.