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New Zealand's Ardern storms to re-election with 'be strong, be kind' mantra


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7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Corona saved her. Were it not for that, her, IMO, dismal performance when it came to making NZer's lives better, she'd have probably been saying goodbye to the big chair now.

 

LOL. "set back" doesn't begin to describe it.

They did quite well on bicycle paths though.

 

Which was pretty much a fiasco, IMO.

 

If she doesn't shape up and deliver this term, IMO labour will be able to fit sitting members in a small van, post next election.

Empathy and hugs only gets a politician so far.I

I agree 100percent.

Edited by Deerculler
Wrong word
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5 hours ago, RickBradford said:

I would like some journalist to ask Ardern the simple question: what is your exit strategy for the Covid issue?

 

Given her present goal of "elimination" of the virus, the country could remain isolated for 10 or 20 years at best, perhaps forever.

 

Some politician, somewhere outside Sweden, has to understand that this virus, like colds and influenza, is here to stay.

I agree. She's just another wishy washy, everything's awesome leftie. Easy to claim success when you're in the middle of the Pacific. Only a monkey could screw things up there on covid. They have not had any exposure and will have to remain closed for the duration or hope someone develops a vaccine before they can rejoin the human race.

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9 hours ago, RickBradford said:

I would like some journalist to ask Ardern the simple question: what is your exit strategy for the Covid issue?

 

Given her present goal of "elimination" of the virus, the country could remain isolated for 10 or 20 years at best, perhaps forever.

 

Some politician, somewhere outside Sweden, has to understand that this virus, like colds and influenza, is here to stay.

Unfortunately "journalists" ( I use the term advisedly ) in NZ are mainly in the bag for Ardern and apparently only ask her softball questions.

One that hosts talkback and would ask that question is still waiting for her to come on his show.

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7 hours ago, daveAustin said:

I agree. She's just another wishy washy, everything's awesome leftie. Easy to claim success when you're in the middle of the Pacific. Only a monkey could screw things up there on covid. They have not had any exposure and will have to remain closed for the duration or hope someone develops a vaccine before they can rejoin the human race.

Correction:  Only a monkey and Hawaiian politicians could screw things up in the middle of the Pacific.

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"I agree. She's just another wishy washy, everything's awesome leftie. Easy to claim success when you're in the middle of the Pacific. Only a monkey could screw things up there on covid. They have not had any exposure and will have to remain closed for the duration or hope someone develops a vaccine before they can rejoin the human race."

 

It doesn't require any great level of optimism to expect that a vaccine will be available before long. Pfizer are due to file for approval of their vaccine by late November. Moderna and Astra Zeneca are probably not far behind.

 

Pfizer to file for vaccine approval late November at earliest

 

Then there are the other 200 or so candidate vaccines already in various stages of development, including 8 in phase 3 trials already (last time I checked). I'd be surprised if there isn't at least one vaccine approved and licensed by the middle of 2021.

Edited by GroveHillWanderer
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23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd say it was more that National had been a shambles since they back stabbed Simon, and has been pathetic at standing up for farmers etc. A party that abandons its base is in trouble at the polls.

Seems from the conversations on talkback, many were going to support labour to get a majority so they could govern without the greens. If labour invites the greens into a coalition without Winston to stop the OTT green agenda, NZ is in trouble IMO.

Simon always came across as wimp. 

Edited by Deerculler
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The first of the larger post Covid elections. No surprise whatsoever. She would not have lost her glued on labour supporters and would have picked up quite a few percent from the fear factor. She does present very well and I think is probably a very nice person. Too nice, possibly. When you run a country you can afford to be publically nice but you have to be ruthless in managing the public service. If you dont they will be useless, clueless and bludge as much as they can and not do anything which is probably what has happened. Your own incompetent colleagues can also be a problem. I hope they have a good year, the Kiwi's in their bubble waiting for the vaccine. She appeared indecisive even to try and get a travel thing happening with Samoa (no cases) to get the labour required to pick their fruit and veg, so they will be paying a fortune at the checkout for that. A lot of them seem keen to get over to Australia and do the work that Aussie bogans wont do, they are starting to allow that now, without quarantine.

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7 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I'd be surprised if there isn't at least one vaccine approved and licensed by the middle of 2021.

That's a fair assumption, even though there has never previously been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus.

 

By that time, the airline, tourist and hospitality industries will be dead and buried worldwide.

 

Also, previous vaccines for other respiratory viruses have proved to be only about 50% effective and fairly short-lived. Which still poses a problem for Covid-purity governments, since outbreaks will continue indefinitely, just as the common cold (another coronavirus illness) does.

 

So a vaccine essentially solves nothing; governments still have to admit that this virus is never going away.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

That's a fair assumption, even though there has never previously been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus.

 

By that time, the airline, tourist and hospitality industries will be dead and buried worldwide.

 

Also, previous vaccines for other respiratory viruses have proved to be only about 50% effective and fairly short-lived. Which still poses a problem for Covid-purity governments, since outbreaks will continue indefinitely, just as the common cold (another coronavirus illness) does.

 

So a vaccine essentially solves nothing; governments still have to admit that this virus is never going away.

Scientists were close to a coronavirus vaccine years ago. Then the money dried up.
Dr. Peter Hotez says he made the pitch to anyone who would listen. After years of research, his team of scientists in Texas had helped develop a vaccine to protect against a deadly strain of coronavirus. Now they needed money to begin testing it in humans.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091

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4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Scientists were close to a coronavirus vaccine years ago. Then the money dried up.
Dr. Peter Hotez says he made the pitch to anyone who would listen. After years of research, his team of scientists in Texas had helped develop a vaccine to protect against a deadly strain of coronavirus. Now they needed money to begin testing it in humans.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091

So this scientist believes he has a vaccine, though it has never been tested in humans to see if it is a) safe and b) effective, criteria which rule out many potential vaccines.

 

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but it certainly doesn't meet my criterion of a "successful vaccine".

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1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

So this scientist believes he has a vaccine, though it has never been tested in humans to see if it is a) safe and b) effective, criteria which rule out many potential vaccines.

 

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but it certainly doesn't meet my criterion of a "successful vaccine".

But it also  doesn't certainly mean "So a vaccine essentially solves nothing; governments still have to admit that this virus is never going away."

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18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

But it also  doesn't certainly mean "So a vaccine essentially solves nothing; governments still have to admit that this virus is never going away."

It means exactly that; until there is a proven, tested, safe, 100% effective, long-lasting vaccine - something that has never been achieved before with a coronavirus - then governments are going to have to come to terms, sooner or later, with the fact that this virus cannot be eliminated and that we have to learn to live with it. 

 

The sooner they can bring themselves to admit that, the better.

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1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

It means exactly that; until there is a proven, tested, safe, 100% effective, long-lasting vaccine - something that has never been achieved before with a coronavirus - then governments are going to have to come to terms, sooner or later, with the fact that this virus cannot be eliminated and that we have to learn to live with it. 

 

The sooner they can bring themselves to admit that, the better.

No!

That's absurd. 

It's not nearly that black and white.

There is no such thing as a 100 percent effective and safe vaccine.

Even a 50 percent effective vaccine that is shown to be "very" safe would be helpful and if that's the best they can do, that's what we'll have.

It will probably be better than 50 percent, more like something like 70 percent.

A safe 70 percent effective vaccine widely given would over time greatly control the spread of this virus.

If you're talking about perfect solutions that are guaranteed to permanently wipe out the virus, no, we won't have that. So What? Attaining a high degree of control will indeed allow the world to live with this as just another "normal" threat to public health short of a pandemic.

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7 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

It means exactly that; until there is a proven, tested, safe, 100% effective, long-lasting vaccine - something that has never been achieved before with a coronavirus - then governments are going to have to come to terms, sooner or later, with the fact that this virus cannot be eliminated and that we have to learn to live with it. 

 

The sooner they can bring themselves to admit that, the better.

You don't need a 100% effective vaccine to have a profound effect on transmission. Not even the measles vaccine is 100% effective and it has a much higher R0 number than does Covid.

Edited by placeholder
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4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If you're talking about perfect solutions that are guaranteed to permanently wipe out the virus, no, we won't have that. So What? Attaining a high degree of control will indeed allow the world to live with this as just another "normal" threat to public health short of a pandemic.

Quite so.

 

But no government has shown willingness to accept merely "a high degree of control" or that this is just another "normal" threat to public health. NZ is a prime example of a government which believes it can "eliminate" this virus, which is absurd.

 

Governments worldwide have terrified their citizens over this virus as though it were a new plague, and have painted themselves into a corner as a result. Turning that round, and asking citizens to regard this as just another "normal" threat is going to take a lot of doing, and a lot of time.

Edited by RickBradford
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3 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Quite so.

 

But no government has shown willingness to accept merely "a high degree of control" or that this is just another "normal" threat to public health. NZ is a prime example of a government which believes it can "eliminate" this virus, which is absurd.

 

Governments worldwide have terrified their citizens over this virus as though it were a new plague, and have painted themselves into a corner as a result. Turning that round, and asking citizens to regard this as just another "normal" threat is going to take a lot of doing, and a lot of time.

The NZ government does not believe it can "eliminate" the virus over the long term. As new treatments come on line such as monoclonal antibodies and vaccines, as well as other treatment modalities, it can be subdued into posing an acceptable level of risk. But we know from the experience of Texas, Arizona, Florida, and California, that eliminating safeguards too soon means hospitals get overrun with seriously ill people.

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