EU tells Britain to make up its mind as Brexit deal 'within reach'

[86Tiger]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

please tell us what the UK has that it's so special and the EU can't find it somewhere else..... maybe fish and chips 555

 

 

I think you re-iterate my point.  The entire premise is disingenuous.

 

 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

 

Sending Barnier back home with his instructions was a significant shot.

Allowing him to return if he brings a fundamental change in approach is an EU humiliating shot sent by Boris.

Giving Macon just two weeks to back down is another shot by Boris.

Hopefully, both sides have seen sense, but let's not try to dress up Barnier's coming to London as some major triumph for Johnson.

 

Firstly, Johnson doesn't issue instructions to Barnier (at least not one's that Barnier takes any notice of). Secondly, what's this 'fundamental change in approach' by the EU? Thirdly, Macron hasn't (yet) backed down over fishing rights (although imo he should). 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Hopefully, both sides have seen sense, but let's not try to dress up Barnier's coming to London as some major triumph for Johnson.

 

Firstly, Johnson doesn't issue instructions to Barnier (at least not one's that Barnier takes any notice of). Secondly, what's this 'fundamental change in approach' by the EU? Thirdly, Macron hasn't (yet) backed down over fishing rights (although imo he should). 

 

Barnier's return is not a triumph (yet) but shows who is calling the shots, and it's not the EU, Barnier and definitely not Macron. 

 

Is 'fundamental change in approach' a phrase that has passed you by in your Remainer mist? It has made it into the Remainer rags like Grauniad, Indy and FT that Remainers are obliged to quote. Have a google for it.

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, RayC said:

Most MEPs and UK MEPs are honest and, among the few that aren't,  I doubt that there are any more 'bad apples' in Brussels compared to Westminster.

 

Read about the scandal of MEPs nipping in, with the car engine still running, to "clock on" for their daily remunerations.

 

The Kinnocks were at it so no doubt Westminster, and ALL the EU member states parliaments have that issue to. 

The EU has the additional gravy train for the bureaucrats and lackeys.

[3NUMBAS]

make up its mind means become a slave to the EU mafia for ever more ,which wont happen

[Baerboxer]

Guy Verhofstadt made a very good speech.

 

He suggested, strongly, that he really hoped for a deal. He wanted the EU negotiator M. Barnier to make sure any deal included provisions for termination should the UK fail to abide by any of its agreement. Understandable given recent developments (but not an easy thing to actually include in a way a court would enforce it).

 

He also said that for the EU to recognize British Sovereignty, which they are doing, and then not recognize that sovereignty over fishing waters and fishing rights was ridiculous - his words. 

 

He also made the point that an EU deal, ratified by all 27 member states, applies to all member states.

 

Sensible way forward.

 

 

 

 

[elliss]

On 10/21/2020 at 8:20 PM, Albert Zweistein said:

Actually they told them to <deleted> off ! They never have been part of Europe anyway.

 

     Correct . 

       UK , have never  adopted , the Euro .

       Gbp , how low can you go . 

       Time will tell ..

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

 

Barnier's return is not a triumph (yet) but shows who is calling the shots, and it's not the EU, Barnier and definitely not Macron. 

 

Is 'fundamental change in approach' a phrase that has passed you by in your Remainer mist? It has made it into the Remainer rags like Grauniad, Indy and FT that Remainers are obliged to quote. Have a google for it.

I've had a Google and I came up with this. Doesn't really support your narrative, does it? Maybe take off your anti-EU, pro 'no deal' goggles for a moment?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/oct/21/eu-council-president-uk-brexit-cant-have-your-cake-and-eat-it-video

[onebir]

14 minutes ago, elliss said:

     UK , have never  adopted , the Euro .

     Gbp , how low can you go . 

This may just save the UK economy (at the expense of the savings of the populace) if the Bank of England can manage to juggle the exchange rate, external balance growth and financing fiscal stimulus...

 

But hell, unlike euro area members, at least they have some kind of autonomous monetary policy...

[RayC]

36 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Read about the scandal of MEPs nipping in, with the car engine still running, to "clock on" for their daily remunerations.

 

The Kinnocks were at it so no doubt Westminster, and ALL the EU member states parliaments have that issue to. 

The EU has the additional gravy train for the bureaucrats and lackeys.

Bit selective don't you think. How about this lot? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Let's not pretend MEPs are any more 'corrupt' than their Westminster counterparts. 

 

However, I stand by my original comment that the vast majority of MEPs and MPs are decent and honest individuals.

Edited October 22, 2020 by RayC
Missed words

[Baerboxer]

Just now, RayC said:

Bit selective don't you think. How about this lot? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Let's not pretend MEPs or MPs are any more 'corrupt' than their Westminster counterparts. 

 

However, I stand by my original comment that the vast majority of MEPs and MPs are decent and honest individuals.

 

How many apples in the barrel are tainted?

 

Will take a hell of a lot more research than that; looking at 27 member states plus the UK.

 

You might be right and you might not. A lot more instances are shown up now due to the information age we live in.

[Loiner]

12 minutes ago, RayC said:

I've had a Google and I came up with this. Doesn't really support your narrative, does it? Maybe take off your anti-EU, pro 'no deal' goggles for a moment?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/oct/21/eu-council-president-uk-brexit-cant-have-your-cake-and-eat-it-video

 

As you would expect from the EU loving Grauniad.  

Charles Michel can say what he likes, but he’s not calling the shots is he? Boris will have us all eating cake, even after picking the cherries out of it. 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

 

As you would expect from the EU loving Grauniad.  

 

I was only following your helpful advice to Google what the Grauniad, Indy or FT had to say about things.

 

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Charles Michel can say what he likes, but he’s not calling the shots is he?

 

As President of the European Council, I'm inclined to believe that Charles Michel has a bit more clout behind him than Johnson: I doubt that your inference, that Johnson is calling the shots is shared by many apart from hard Brexiters.

 

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Boris will have us all eating cake, even after picking the cherries out of it. 

 

As you probably know, it didn't end well for Marie Antoinette who (may have) suggested that the public eat cake. Fortunately, Johnson won't meet such a messy end; however, his popularity might soon suffer as much of a nose drive as the aforementioned French queen's.

[Matzzon]

On 10/21/2020 at 12:34 PM, snoop1130 said:

EU tells Britain to make up its mind as Brexit deal 'within reach'

Just don´t care about them! They have already stated they do not want any deal, as well as they also already broken a row of pre-made deals.

[vogie]

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Just don´t care about them! They have already stated they do not want any deal, as well as they also already broken a row of pre-made deals.

Do you care about the 1 million EU citizens that will lose their jobs if it's a 'no deal', it seems your intense dislike of the British over-rides your concern for the welfare of your fellow EU members.

[Matzzon]

Just now, vogie said:

Do you care about the 1 million EU citizens that will lose their jobs if it's a 'no deal', it seems your intense dislike of the British over-rides your concern for the welfare of your fellow EU members.

I do not have any fellow EU members. Left that sinking world over 20 years ago. ???? 

However, you deserve an answer. Ok 1 million out of a population of close to 450 million EU citizens is of course much. However, due to the free work and free movement inside EU, they will have a greater chance to find new occupation by looking at a wider area.

When you look at UK the UK population with about 68 million citizens, and that there is losses already of over 750 000 jobs. That as well as a very high risk of close to a million more jobs to go away. Yeah, then I think you realize who draw the shorter stick in this game. ????

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

I do not have any fellow EU members. Left that sinking world over 20 years ago. ???? 

However, you deserve an answer. Ok 1 million out of a population of close to 450 million EU citizens is of course much. However, due to the free work and free movement inside EU, they will have a greater chance to find new occupation by looking at a wider area.

When you look at UK the UK population with about 68 million citizens, and that there is losses already of over 750 000 jobs. That as well as a very high risk of close to a million more jobs to go away. Yeah, then I think you realize who draw the shorter stick in this game. ????

So you're happy if both sides suffer badly, just as long as the UK suffers the most. I really think you need a reality check.

[Matzzon]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

So you're happy if both sides suffer badly, just as long as the UK suffers the most. I really think you need a reality check.

Nope, I am not. Never posted that. I have posted that I do not care if they make it out ok, and that is true but it regards both sides. Do not twist my posts and the meaning of them.

I gave you an answer on your question, and also made you aware of the hardship that exists on both sides as well as who is best equipped to deal with it in my opinion.

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I gave you an answer on your question, and also made you aware of the hardship that exists on both sides as well as who is best equipped to deal with it in my opinion.

"Best equipped to deal with it" still equates to who will suffer the least. So what ever your reason for saying I don't care anymore, there are many still in the EU nations that still do care.

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Do you care about the 1 million EU citizens that will lose their jobs if it's a 'no deal', it seems your intense dislike of the British over-rides your concern for the welfare of your fellow EU members.

Vogie you are still hanging on that "potential" 1 million jobs loss, I already gave you the answer to that, let it go, it's incorrect and you know it, find something else 555

[Rimmer]

A baiting post has been removed

[Matzzon]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

"Best equipped to deal with it" still equates to who will suffer the least. So what ever your reason for saying I don't care anymore, there are many still in the EU nations that still do care.

Yes, but it does not say that I wish one side to suffer more, as you try to make it sound like.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Matzzon

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, but it does not say that I wish one side to suffer more, as you try to make it sound like.

Sometimes I don't think you realise what you are writing on here, you stated :-

 

When you look at UK the UK population with about 68 million citizens, and that there is losses already of over 750 000 jobs. That as well as a very high risk of close to a million more jobs to go away. Yeah, then I think you realize who draw the shorter stick in this game. 

 

 

[Matzzon]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

Sometimes I don't think you realise what you are writing on here, you stated :-

 

When you look at UK the UK population with about 68 million citizens, and that there is losses already of over 750 000 jobs. That as well as a very high risk of close to a million more jobs to go away. Yeah, then I think you realize who draw the shorter stick in this game. 

 

 

Yes, I know I posted at. Where do I write that I want ne side to suffer more?  really think that it´s you who have reading difficulties and lack of comprehension capabilities.

I just pointed out for you to realize who have the greater loss, due to that you only pointed out that EU stand in front of a risk to lose 1 million jobs. Please, now, point out where it stand that I want it to be like that? Another option can be to just keep quiet, if the only thing on your agenda is to twist information and make up accusations based on ck of comprehension.

 

To bring up another thing to spread clarity as well as compare two situations, can never be considered to wish something for a specific side.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Matzzon

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, I know I posted at. Where do I write that I want ne side to suffer more?  really think that it´s you who have reading difficulties and lack of comprehension capabilities.

I just pointed out for you to realize who have the greater loss, due to that you only pointed out that EU stand in front of a risk to lose 1 million jobs. Please, now, point out where it stand that I want it to be like that? Another option can be to just keep quiet, if the only thing on your agenda is to twist information and make up accusations based on ck of comprehension.

 

To bring up another thing to spread clarity as well as compare two situations, can never be considered to wish something for a specific side.

Only a very special poster would write something down, then deny he/she said it. I will let the rest of the forum judge you because quite frankly I have had enough of your arguements.

[Matzzon]

29 minutes ago, vogie said:

Only a very special poster would write something down, then deny he/she said it. I will let the rest of the forum judge you because quite frankly I have had enough of your arguements.

No you not get away that easy. What did I post that states I wish the UK to suffer more? I understand you are tired. That has nothing to do with my arguments. That has entirely to do with your accusations that you have no substance to stand up for.

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

No you not get away that easy. What did I post that states I wish the UK to suffer more? I understand you are tired. That has nothing to do with my arguments. That has entirely to do with your accusations that you have no substance to stand up for.

"I understand you're tired" is a personal attack, which is what you do.

When you say "Yeah, then I think you realise who drew the shorter stick in this game" were you referring to Outer Mongolia? Stop being disingenuous, you are already in a hole, time to stop digging.

Again your post for all to see.⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️

 

"When you look at UK the UK population with about 68 million citizens, and that there is losses already of over 750 000 jobs. That as well as a very high risk of close to a million more jobs to go away. Yeah, then I think you realize who draw the shorter stick in this game."

[puipuitom]

On 10/22/2020 at 12:07 PM, Nigel Garvie said:

Yes I agree as regards a relatively small country like the UK. However, you will note that when the US were in negotiations with the EU, the US insisted that all disputes be settled in US courts. The EU told them to take a running jump. Negotiations have stalled I believe.

 

It is simple, if the UK want access to the single market then they will have to abide by the rules and regs of that market. There are sadly some people around,  whose brains are tiny enough,  to let them believe that the UK is the equal of the EU. In trade terms for a start,  it would be obvious to a blind wombat, that it isn't.

 

I still expect a no deal Brexit, though I would be glad to be proved wrong. Too many friends of Boris and the Tory grandees have shorted the pound depending on it, so we are told. Again I would like to be proved wrong. 

 

a) The UK will be out of the EU Horizon research programme too.

"The UK’s post-Brexit collaboration with European scientists hangs in the balance after it emerged that the EU offer of staying in the Horizon research programme could leave London with a £3bn deficit.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/oct/22/science-brexit-deal-faces-3bn-hurdle-in-eu-funding-programme-uk-horizon-europe"

 

b) FSA questioned about post Brexit food safety rules see https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2020/10/fsa-asked-about-post-brexit-food-safety-rules/

 

c) The situation around the European Commission-operated Rapid Alert System for Food and Feed (RASFF) is also still unclear.

 

I only can wish the British much strength... per 01 Jan 2021 00:00:01

[puipuitom]

On 10/22/2020 at 12:27 PM, 86Tiger said:

They always refer to access "....EU's internal market of 450 million consumers...." as being the concern.

 

If UK produces anything the 450 million want they will buy it regardless of price, tariff, whatever.  It is called demand and the supply will be provided to meet any demand.  Hiding behind 'we only want to make it easier for you to take our money' seems disingenuous. 

If any importer into the EU brings merchandise sub-standard to the EU laws and regulations, it will be simply confiscated and destructed at the expenses of the EU importer. Whether food : EFSA-RASFF,; toys, electric appliances, sports: CE;  chemicals: Reach....and a LOT more. 

Sorry, even during the times of Horatio Hornblower, a British empire supplier needed an importer in (Napoleontic customs) Europe.

see http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110801/local/new-health-warning-over-noodles.378335

One BIG advantage for the Chinese and others: per 1 Jan 2021 the UK is out of the RASFF, so all this stuff can be re-directed to UK ports.

[robblok]

8 hours ago, vogie said:

Do you care about the 1 million EU citizens that will lose their jobs if it's a 'no deal', it seems your intense dislike of the British over-rides your concern for the welfare of your fellow EU members.

Its worse for the Brits, something you don't seem to understand.  Now the Brits wanted to leave (up to them) then  play rough. Then no deal. I was always for a deal but when BJ started breaking international agreements I changed my mind. Sometimes little children need to learn not to play with fire as they might get burned. 

 

But I understand the Brits with their fishing rights they should hold their ground. But thinking they don't have to abide by the rules for access to the 1 big market is stupid. If they don't agree there is no level playingfield something the EU would never agree too. 

 

I was always for a deal.. right now no deal sounds good to me. Hurts the Brits more then it does us. Sad but when they don't seem to understand their position they need to learn it the hard way. Never any access to the market unless you abide by the rules. It would lead to unfair competition something we did our best to remove if the EU did not stick to that rule.