Why does the UK suffer such huge death rates from Covid?

[AndrewMciver]

The UK have fudged the books a tad by eliminating anyone passing away from Covid after 28 days. Yet the question remains, why are they still suffering from such catastrophic numbers? 

 

Even in the first wave, they suffered badly. Now onto the second wave, compared to many countries with equal covid numbers, they are still seeing masses dying. 

 

What on earth is going on here? 

 

How on earth have these Asian countries like Singapore, or Arab countries like UAE managed to have such small numbers of deaths despite huge covid infections per 100,000 people? 

[Meat Pie 47]

6 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

The UK have fudged the books a tad by eliminating anyone passing away from Covid after 28 days. Yet the question remains, why are they still suffering from such catastrophic numbers? 

 

Even in the first wave, they suffered badly. Now onto the second wave, compared to many countries with equal covid numbers, they are still seeing masses dying. 

 

What on earth is going on here? 

 

How on earth have these Asian countries like Singapore, or Arab countries like UAE managed to have such small numbers of deaths despite huge covid infections per 100,000 people? 

Ask Boris

[Susco]

I have wanted to ask this question since long, why if there are such huge numbers of COVID deaths, are the average numbers not higher?

 

Am I reading these charts wrong? Are these number not real?

 

I now take UK as example, but all countries show similar results.

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/death-rate

 

 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

15 minutes ago, Susco said:

I have wanted to ask this question since long, why if there are such huge numbers of COVID deaths, are the average numbers not higher?

 

Am I reading these charts wrong? Are these number not real?

 

I now take UK as example, but all countries show similar results.

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/death-rate

 

 

 

 

Be careful not to add fuel to the conspiracy theorist's fires.

 

I think that when this is all over, the real figures will be known. At the moment every country seems to tally up using different pointers.  Also, a significant number of those dying from Covid may not have seen the year out in any case - Covid probably just speeded their departure up. They will not therefore, increase the average death numbers in comparison with other years.  Then there's the fact that the weather in Europe last winter was not too bad - bad winters always take their toll on the elderly.

 

Its also worth noting that the figures vary significantly depeding on the author of the study.  I did a similar exercise a few months ago and found many different figures.  Then there's the possibility that some studies are just plain false.  A 'conspiracy theorist' sent me some figures a few months back that showed similar results to yours. When I tried to Google the organisation said to have compiled the figures, they didn't seem to exist. The graphs looked very professional though.

 

I'm not saying your figures are fake but it seems we are now living in a world where everything has to be checked.  Another couple of examples sent to me by conspiracy theorists:

 

A professional looking news report that stated the first woman to take part in the Oxford Vaccine trials had died. Totally false, she's alive and kicking.

 

Photos of Muslims in Bradford, UK, apparently going about their worship practices as per normal during lockdown.  A little research established that the photos were in fact, 3 weeks old - before lockdown.

 

When you tell conspiracy theorists that you will only believe facts and reports from a trusted source, they immediately state that that source is biased.

Edited October 27, 2020 by KhaoYai

[dimitriv]

2 hours ago, Susco said:

I have wanted to ask this question since long, why if there are such huge numbers of COVID deaths, are the average numbers not higher?

 

Am I reading these charts wrong? Are these number not real?

 

 

Quote:

 

NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.

 

 

[AndrewMciver]

 

Bloody hell 367 deaths today. Horrific. 

 

As for excess deaths, the UK has one of the highest excess death rates in the world this year. 

[scammed]

3 hours ago, Susco said:

I have wanted to ask this question since long, why if there are such huge numbers of COVID deaths, are the average numbers not higher?

 

Am I reading these charts wrong? Are these number not real?

 

I now take UK as example, but all countries show similar results.

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/death-rate

 

 

 

 

same as all other countries, not any significant change to any other years, kinda like climate change, the only difference is in newspapers headlines and government policy

[dimitriv]

11 minutes ago, scammed said:

same as all other countries, not any significant change to any other years, kinda like climate change, the only difference is in newspapers headlines and government policy

 

Do you have sources for your statement?  

 

What I read is very different:

 

Over the past few weeks, mortality in the Netherlands has been higher than the average figures recorded in previous years. There were 3,575 deaths in week 12 (ending 22 March). This is 443 more than the average weekly figure in the first ten weeks of this year. For week 13 (ending 29 March), the number of deaths is estimated at around 4,300. The estimate has been based on the number of death certificates received by Statistics Netherlands (CBS) for week 13. These figures have been reported by CBS and the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment (RIVM) on the basis of national provisional counts of the number of deaths per week.

 

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2020/14/mortality-rising

 

 

 

[donnacha]

Richer countries tend to have two factors that massively increase the death figures:

1. Covid-19 mainly kills people at an advanced age or with certain serious health issues. In richer countries, people receive better healthcare,  tend to eat food of higher quality, tend to exercise, and are exposed to less pollution. Therefore, they tend to live to older ages and a higher proportion survive serious health issues. This means that there are more "low-hanging fruit" in those countries who are particularly vulnerable to Covid-19. In particular, the success of the flu jab schemes over the past 3 years meant that there was a large overhang of older folks who, usually, would have been killed by the flu and were now easy-pickings for a virus they were not inoculated against.

Many countries have had fewer Covid deaths because the people who would have been vulnerable are mostly already dead.

2. Richer countries also tend to attract larger populations of migrants. Those communities have been disproportionately affected. New migrants tend to congregate in cities with high rents, such as London or Dublin, because that is where the high pay and opportunities are. To cope with the high rents, they tend to have far higher-density living situations, often with 3 generations (kids, parents, grandparents) living in one flat.

They have also been under less peer pressure to be observant of the guidance around masks and social distancing. This may be partly because they are more likely to regard themselves as outside the system and not subject to its rules, and partly because they consume less local media and are therefore less aware of the government advice.

Some groups, such as young African and Afro-Caribbean men, are under more cultural pressure to appear macho. They worry that observing precautions will reveal them to be a battyboy. Other groups, such as some Islamists and some fundamentalist Christians, do not believe that it is possible to get infected unless it is God's will. Taking precautions is therefore akin to blasphemy. Other groups simply come from countries in which no one particularly bothers to follow rules, such as Brazil.

Gypsies place a high value on personal connections and on mixing all the generations, much like the Italians. They like to spend time together in large groups and have strongly resisted orders to limit gatherings. Again, they have been hit particularly hard.

All this matters because, if you break down the figures, you can see that hotspots within "bad" countries are extremely localized. People living just a few streets apart are experiencing a very different pandemic. The media has been unsure how to tiptoe across this political correctness minefield, but you occasionally see it bubble up in the form of reports about how "Covid is racist".

Anyway, the net result is that the centers of world cities such as London and New York have been absolutely hammered, while their wealthier suburbs have been almost untouched.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by donnacha

[scammed]

14 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

Do you have sources for your statement?  

 

What I read is very different:

 

Over the past few weeks, mortality in the Netherlands has been higher than the average figures recorded in previous years. There were 3,575 deaths in week 12 (ending 22 March). This is 443 more than the average weekly figure in the first ten weeks of this year. For week 13 (ending 29 March), the number of deaths is estimated at around 4,300. The estimate has been based on the number of death certificates received by Statistics Netherlands (CBS) for week 13. These figures have been reported by CBS and the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment (RIVM) on the basis of national provisional counts of the number of deaths per week.

 

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2020/14/mortality-rising

 

 

 

since most statistics dont include fractional numbers,

i will wait until beginning of next year to show

death by year comparisons, but so far,

i see no statistically significant deviation from the norm

[dimitriv]

24 minutes ago, scammed said:

since most statistics dont include fractional numbers,

i will wait until beginning of next year to show

death by year comparisons, but so far,

i see no statistically significant deviation from the norm

 

So you make a statement now, but you will wait till the beginning of the next year to prove it?

 

I think the article I quoted clearly says that the number of monthly deaths is higher this year than in previous years. At least in NL.

 

In Italy it is the same. Here a nice graph comparing the monthly deaths last year with this year: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109552/monthly-number-of-deaths-in-italy/

 

 

 

Do you see the number of deaths going up starting March?  That was the time of the first Covid outbreak in Italy. Or don't you see a "statistically significant deviation" ?  

 

 

 

 

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts removed.   Keep it civil and stay on topic.

 

[RichardColeman]

Below is the age demographics for Thailand and the UK (2018), as you can clearly see, the UK has 8% more population in the +65 bracket, 8% is the equivalent of 5.5 million more elderly people. Fair to say that with 5.5 million more elderly - 2million of which are over 85 - It's not surprising therefore that we rate higher than a country that has less old people - the CDC says you are 630 more times likely to die than others 18-29 group. Think that pretty much sums things up. And add in UK obesity................Basically you take care of the old and FAT - you end up worst when an unknown sickness comes along 

 

Thailand

0-14 years: 16.73% (male 5,880,026 /female 5,598,611)

15-24 years: 13.83% (male 4,840,303 /female 4,649,589)

25-54 years: 46.12% (male 15,670,881 /female 15,972,254)

55-64 years: 12.35% (male 3,970,979 /female 4,503,647)

65 years and over: 10.97% (male 3,289,576 /female 4,239,992) (2018 est.)

 

UK

0-14 years: 17.59% (male 5,871,268 /female 5,582,107)

15-24 years: 11.71% (male 3,895,850 /female 3,726,311)

25-54 years: 40.29% (male 13,387,119 /female 12,843,549)

55-64 years: 12.22% (male 3,936,466 /female 4,022,245)

65 years and over: 18.19% (male 5,321,392 /female 6,518,939) (2018 est.)

[tribalfusion001]

3 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

 

Bloody hell 367 deaths today. Horrific. 

 

As for excess deaths, the UK has one of the highest excess death rates in the world this year. 

361 with underlying conditions, it's the same everyday. Sad, but not worth the economic mess being created with the restrictions.

[tribalfusion001]

6 hours ago, Susco said:

I have wanted to ask this question since long, why if there are such huge numbers of COVID deaths, are the average numbers not higher?

 

Am I reading these charts wrong? Are these number not real?

 

I now take UK as example, but all countries show similar results.

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/death-rate

 

 

 

 

Interesting site, I'll bookmark that. UK mortality looks to be about average, I had heard this, tbh I could have looked at the ONS and done my own research, lazy lol.

[Salerno]

28 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

UK mortality looks to be about average

 

When?

 

Feel free to play with the graphs/tables/countries:

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&time=2020-02-09..latest&country=ESP~England %26 Wales~USA~ITA&region=World

 

For those that prefer reading, another source:

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/comparisonsofallcausemortalitybetweeneuropeancountriesandregions/januarytojune2020

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Salerno

[tribalfusion001]

18 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

When?

 

Feel free to play with the graphs/tables/countries:

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&time=2020-02-09..latest&country=ESP~England %26 Wales~USA~ITA&region=World

 

For those that prefer reading, another source:

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/comparisonsofallcausemortalitybetweeneuropeancountriesandregions/januarytojune2020

 

That chart is for this year, not all years to compare.

[Salerno]

2 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

That chart is for this year, not all years to compare.

 

Quote

Shown is how the number of weekly deaths in 2020 differs (as a percentage) from the average number of deaths in the same week over the previous five years (2015–2019)

 

[tribalfusion001]

3 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

 

This one is better https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/death-rate

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

This one is better https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/death-rate

 

Only if you are trying to push a certain agenda:

 

Quote

NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Salerno

[tribalfusion001]

2 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Only if you are trying to push a certain agenda:

 

 

Give me a graph with a 10 year average, up to date data. I'm watching protests in Italy atm.

[Salerno]

Protests do not negate reality.

 

As per the graph Italy peaked at +90% during the first wave and was actually below average prior to Covid hitting and from May to June (they don't have the figures since June). 

[tribalfusion001]

12 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Protests do not negate reality.

 

As per the graph Italy peaked at +90% during the first wave and was actually below average prior to Covid hitting and from May to June (they don't have the figures since June). 

The protests are the current reality, in Europe and Thailand.

 

Thanks for sharing the graphs.

Edited October 27, 2020 by tribalfusion001

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

How on earth have these Asian countries like Singapore, or Arab countries like UAE managed to have such small numbers of deaths despite huge covid infections per 100,000 people? 

Climate.

England is cold and wet all the time and there are were heaps of elderly people living in sealed heated boxes.

COVID likes the Brit climate and lifestyle.

Edited October 27, 2020 by BritManToo

[tribalfusion001]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Climate.

England is cold and wet all the time and there are were heaps of elderly people living in sealed heated boxes.

COVID likes the Brit climate and lifestyle.

I was sitting in the pub today (Tuesday) and it was pouring with rain and breezy outside, there were people walking past with soggy wet masks on their faces, that won't help with covid.

 

Italy is going full on revolt at present, got a live stream of a protest on, better than watching TV and boring covid19 stories 555.

[teacherclaire]

And why does China have only a few cases? It doesn't make much sense. 

[tribalfusion001]

2 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

And why does China have only a few cases? It doesn't make much sense. 

None of it makes any sense, hence why conspiracy theories are exploding. This whole pandemic has stank from the start and still does.

[teacherclaire]

Just now, tribalfusion001 said:

None of it makes any sense, hence why conspiracy theories are exploding. This whole pandemic has stank from the start and still does.

They fed us the infected bat story and we all believed it. I call it BS> 

[Lacessit]

28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Climate.

England is cold and wet all the time and there are were heaps of elderly people living in sealed heated boxes.

COVID likes the Brit climate and lifestyle.

Not to mention about 30% of Brits are classed as obese. Thailand has even higher obesity levels; however, that's mostly in younger people who have better immune systems to offset their obesity.

[tribalfusion001]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Not to mention about 30% of Brits are classed as obese. Thailand has even higher obesity levels; however, that's mostly in younger people who have better immune systems to offset their obesity.

Spot on, they never mention the obesity thing, same in most of the western world.