UK's Johnson says there is no alternative to lockdown

[webfact]

UK's Johnson says there is no alternative to lockdown

 

FILE PHOTO: A person wearing a mask walks past the Bank of England in London, Britain, March 23, 2020. REUTERS/Toby Melville/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson will on Monday say there is no alternative but to lock down England as lawmakers prepare to vote on measures to contain a second wave of the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

After resisting calls for a new national lockdown for most of last month, Johnson announced on Saturday that restrictions across England will begin after midnight on Thursday and last until Dec. 2.

 

The United Kingdom, which has the highest official COVID-19 death toll in Europe, is grappling with more than 20,000 new cases a day. Scientists have warned a worst-case scenario of 80,000 dead could be exceeded this winter.

 

"Models of our scientists suggest that unless we act now, we could see deaths over the winter that are twice as bad or more compared with the first wave," Johnson is expected to say, according to his office.

 

"Faced with these latest figures, there is no alternative but to take further action at a national level."

 

Britain has reported 46,717 COVID-19 deaths - defined as those dying within 28 days of a positive test. A broader measure of those with COVID-19 on their death certificates puts the toll at 58,925.

 

Essential shops, schools, and universities in England will remain open but pubs and restaurants will be shut apart from for takeaways.

 

Outbound international travel will be discouraged except for work and non-essential retail will close.

 

Lawmakers will vote on these measures on Wednesday and the opposition Labour Party has offered its support.

 

The rest of the United Kingdom - Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - have their own lockdown policies and enacted tougher health restrictions last month.

 

Cabinet minister Michael Gove on Sunday said England's lockdown could be extended beyond Dec. 2 if necessary, but Johnson will tell lawmakers that an extension is not the plan.

 

(Reporting by Andy Bruce; editing by Barbara Lewis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-11-02

 

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[thaibeachlovers]

When Boris became PM I welcomed it, as I thought he was a political outsider.

Unfortunately he now seems to be just another politician, and I accept I was wrong to think otherwise.

[steve187]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When Boris became PM I welcomed it, as I thought he was a political outsider.

Unfortunately he now seems to be just another politician, and I accept I was wrong to think otherwise.

he was always another politician, just the wright man at the right time to sort out brexit, always easy to criticise from the outside, due to brexit and the virus his Government has had to face more than any other Government for many many years.

[mr mr]

43 minutes ago, webfact said:

Scientists have warned a worst-case scenario of 80,000 dead could be exceeded this winter.

cases vs deaths tells a different story. even taking into considering the massive increase in cases it has been a month since the *second wave* started the death rate is not following the same jump. not even close.

 

the huge increase in cases has not resulted in a huge number of deaths. as it stands the first wave was way deadlier than the current one. 

 

time will tell. 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

48 minutes ago, mr mr said:

cases vs deaths tells a different story. even taking into considering the massive increase in cases it has been a month since the *second wave* started the death rate is not following the same jump. not even close.

 

the huge increase in cases has not resulted in a huge number of deaths. as it stands the first wave was way deadlier than the current one. 

 

time will tell. 

 

 

That makes sense to me. The first "wave" killed most of those that were going to die of underlying conditions when infected. After lockdown the non immune were infected leading to the second wave of infections, but as most of the likely to die had already died, the death rate is lower.

I'm sure some will disagree, so tell me why.

[scammed]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That makes sense to me. The first "wave" killed most of those that were going to die of underlying conditions when infected. After lockdown the non immune were infected leading to the second wave of infections, but as most of the likely to die had already died, the death rate is lower.

I'm sure some will disagree, so tell me why.

i agree, and here is an alternative to lock down, as demonstrated by swedes

[pedro01]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That makes sense to me. The first "wave" killed most of those that were going to die of underlying conditions when infected. After lockdown the non immune were infected leading to the second wave of infections, but as most of the likely to die had already died, the death rate is lower.

I'm sure some will disagree, so tell me why.

I disagree for the some reason that works on the assumption that those most likely to die were also those infected in 1st wave. 

Something is there in the data, I think it'll take a while to figure it out though. 

[Hanaguma]

The alternative is quarantine for the vulnerable, and the rest of the people get on with their lives.  And the bloody government steps back and supports people, rather than abusing them. Not everyone has a posh office job that can easily be done from home.  

[polpott]

1 hour ago, scammed said:

i agree, and here is an alternative to lock down, as demonstrated by swedes

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102257/cumulative-coronavirus-cases-in-the-nordics/

 

Sweden:   Cumulative Covid cases 96K      Cumulative Covid deaths 5.9k

 

Norway:   Cumulative Covid cases  13k     Cumulative Covid deaths 267

 

Denmark: Cumulative Covid cases  30k     Cumulative Covid deaths 643

 

Finland:   Cumulative Covid cases   10k    Cumulative Covid deaths 346

 

Actually doing very badly compared to its neighbours who did enforce restrictions.

Even Sweden now admits that it got it wrong.

[scammed]

16 minutes ago, polpott said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102257/cumulative-coronavirus-cases-in-the-nordics/

 

Sweden:   Cumulative Covid cases 96K      Cumulative Covid deaths 5.9k

 

Norway:   Cumulative Covid cases  13k     Cumulative Covid deaths 267

 

Denmark: Cumulative Covid cases  30k     Cumulative Covid deaths 643

 

Finland:   Cumulative Covid cases   10k    Cumulative Covid deaths 346

 

Actually doing very badly compared to its neighbours who did enforce restrictions.

Even Sweden now admits that it got it wrong.

which nation has seen a lower death rate as of late then sweden ?

[polpott]

1 minute ago, scammed said:

which nation has seen a lower death rate as of late then sweden ?

Thailand. I've shown you the stats. (yet again), and you choose to ignore them. Sweden's approach has failed, even the Swedish government now admit to that. Pity you can't.

[scammed]

9 minutes ago, polpott said:

Thailand. I've shown you the stats. (yet again), and you choose to ignore them. Sweden's approach has failed, even the Swedish government now admit to that. Pity you can't.

we will be able to compare the two in a couple of months

when the balance is calculated,

that is to say, the testing and accounting just isnt good enough, we need to see if there is any anomaly in countries after new year

as compared to previous years

Edited November 2, 2020 by scammed

[polpott]

11 minutes ago, scammed said:

we will be able to compare the two in a couple of months

when the balance is calculated,

that is to say, the testing and accounting just isnt good enough, we need to see if there is any anomaly in countries after new year

as compared to previous years

Well until then stop pumping the falsehood that Sweden's approach has been a success.

[scammed]

5 minutes ago, polpott said:

Well until then stop pumping the falsehood that Sweden's approach has been a success.

i think they got away better then other nations.

the mask enforcement here caused my exhaust breath

to be directed into my eyes and agitated my eyes,

my left eye is now burning and i am technically blind on my left eye. this has multiple implications, i can no longer drive safely in the evening, i caused an accident because with only one eye,

i could not accurately assess approach speed as i was going to cut into my hotel

[polpott]

1 minute ago, scammed said:

i think they got away better then other nations.

I've already illustrated how it fared worse than its neighbours. Britain one of the worst? Read and weep.

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-lockdown-sceptics-get-wrong-about-sweden

 

Wearing masks caused you to crash your car? Very Thai! Good one. More novel than brake failure.

[scammed]

2 minutes ago, polpott said:

I've already illustrated how it fared worse than its neighbours. Britain one of the worst? Read and weep.

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-lockdown-sceptics-get-wrong-about-sweden

 

Wearing masks caused you to crash your car? Very Thai! Good one. More novel than brake failure.

media wants to makes headlines, their assessment is worthless.

yes, the mask directed my exhaust breath straight into my eyes

and agitated them, i am now technically blind on my left eye,

and it takes triangulation to pinpoint distance, which is also a requirement to pinpoint speed

[Surelynot]

Excess deaths per capita are the key to what might be happening.

 

Unfortunately not only do deaths lag the trend, but the data lags the deaths.....I'm not sure we will get a clear picture of what is happening until the New Year.

 

The only seemingly clear fact is that Johnson is bumbling buffoon and is way out of his depth.

[polpott]

4 minutes ago, scammed said:

media wants to makes headlines, their assessment is worthless.

Media tells truth but their assessment doesn't agree with your agenda. Very Trumpian.

 

BTW. The Spectator is a right wing but well respected media source in the UK. Not prone to sensationalism.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by polpott

[Surelynot]

OMG...this has Cummings written all over it...

 

Excess deaths are well down for the data that is available, the indications are that the number of deaths will be nowhere near what they were in Spring....so?

 

Put out the news it is going to horrendous, introduce lockdown, not so many deaths......who's ya daddy?

 

Boris is our hero...he saved the nation.

[scammed]

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

Media tells truth but their assessment doesn't agree with your agenda. Very Trumpian.

 

BTW. The Spectator is a right wing but well respected media source in the UK. Not prone to sensationalism.

 

 

media is not a  respectable source, they are prone to sensationalism, its their work description to publish sensationalist headlines, to make a buck

[NorthernRyland]

UK has got off the deep end. It's not THAT bad and It's been over for months.

 

[Surelynot]

Just now, scammed said:

media is not a  respectable source, they are prone to sensationalism, its their work description to publish sensationalist headlines, to make a buck

True if you read the Mail and the Express.

[polpott]

1 minute ago, scammed said:

media is not a  respectable source, they are prone to sensationalism, its their work description to publish sensationalist headlines, to make a buck

So we should believe you rather than The Spectator? The article contained facts, stats, graphs. What have you got other than "I think"? Don't make me laugh. 

[johnnybangkok]

22 minutes ago, polpott said:

I've already illustrated how it fared worse than its neighbours. Britain one of the worst? Read and weep.

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-lockdown-sceptics-get-wrong-about-sweden

 

Wearing masks caused you to crash your car? Very Thai! Good one. More novel than brake failure.

Great article thank you.

I've been saying this for quite some time but it just falls on deaf ears for those too bunkered down in their echo chambers.

[johnnybangkok]

19 minutes ago, scammed said:

media wants to makes headlines, their assessment is worthless.

yes, the mask directed my exhaust breath straight into my eyes

and agitated them, i am now technically blind on my left eye,

and it takes triangulation to pinpoint distance, which is also a requirement to pinpoint speed

Your personal, anecdotal thoughts shouldn't be used as a benchmark for the masses. 

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

UK has got off the deep end. It's not THAT bad and It's been over for months.

 

.....the only defense I can see for locking down is that the projections do indeed show a massive increase in excess deaths...the current data shows little or no excess deaths...all very strange

[polpott]

Just now, johnnybangkok said:

Your personal, anecdotal thoughts shouldn't be used as a benchmark for the masses. 

Funny though, made me smile. 555

[polpott]

Just now, Surelynot said:

.....the only defense I can see for locking down is that the projections do indeed show a massive increase in excess deaths...the current data shows little or no excess deaths...all very strange

Rise in deaths lags rise in cases by 4-8 weeks.

[scammed]

3 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Your personal, anecdotal thoughts shouldn't be used as a benchmark for the masses. 

triangulation for measure depth is a mathematical fact,

and it take two eyes to triangulate.

back to your math lessons, and this time do your homework

Edited November 2, 2020 by scammed

[Neeranam]

I feel sorry for my family who are suffering financially. My brother owns a few pubs and shops and has had to pay his staff(well a %age) for months while getting no income himself. Boris is a bumbling posh <deleted>.