mark131v Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 5 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: He needs a warning placed on him, warning hotels about letting him stay and the consequences of not letting him drink outside vodka on their premises It was Gin, do keep up... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
from the home of CC Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said: TripAdvisor has always had problems with reviews. I use them with a large grain of salt. Many are dubious but that's the whole basis of this 'advisor' isn't it - dubious advice (with many contrived inputs internally I have no doubt) Only makes sense if favorable reviews generate business that these reviews become manipulated.. Edited November 12, 2020 by from the home of CC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said: In most Thai police stations, they are the same cell. Yes, but that isnt a jail, though is it . They are police holding cells, jails are something different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sheryl Posted November 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2020 6 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: The guy didnt write a honest review though , he wrote numerous false allegations because he got charged corkage on alcohol be bought into the hotel from outside . The American guy waged a campaign against the hotel because he got upset about not being allowed to bring in beer from 7/11 . Unfair on the hotel for Trip advisor to issue a warning , when the American guy wrote false reviews TA does have mechanisms whereby hotels can complain about unfair/inaccurate reviews. And such do get taken down in many cases. They should have stuck with that instead of having him arrested. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Flying Saucage Posted November 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: What I meant was that a Court of law didnt give him a jail sentance , he didnt get sent to jail for writing anything online Yes, and this outcome was only possible because Richard Barrow and Andrew MacGregor Marshall made this case known to the public and the world outside Thailand. Without them, Mr. Barnes would face a longer jail term. His forced apology alone shows everything about the mindset of these people. Really, I don't understand why some TV members still defend the use of fascist laws by so called influencial people in this totalitarian country. It's beyond me, really. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, mark131v said: It was Gin, do keep up... Well, it would have been vodka, the guy might have not been discrimanated 555 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post alyx Posted November 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: Yes, but that isnt a jail, though is it . They are police holding cells, jails are something different a cell is a cell: being deprived of freedom and rights ( in some case) You are kidding right? And it also makes a huge difference between being in a cell pending investigation/trial and being in cell after judgment: in the first case, one doesn't know the outcome. You are pushing the semantic a bit far because you want to be right but the result is the same: a cell is a cell. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airalee Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, alyx said: Insinuation and actual wording are quite different. I have not read the posts and tbh I am not interested. I am just looking at the effect of a thoughtless reaction of a management. Furthermore, as much as I'd like the negative comments to be constructive, most of them posts are not as the posters use that mean of communication to vent their frustration. I agree with everything you say although in his review, he did in fact use the words “slave labor” in his description of how the staff treated the workers. That goes far beyond reviewing a product or service. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Flying Saucage said: Yes, and this outcome was only possible because Richard Barrow and Andrew MacGregor Marshall made this case known to the public and the world outside Thailand. Without them, Mr. Barnes would face a longer jail term. His forced apology alone shows everything about the mindset of these people. Really, I don't understand why some TV members still defend the use of fascist laws by so called influencial people in this totalitarian country. It's beyond me, really. He did NOT get a jail term, the case didnt even go to Court . Do you think that Thailand cares about what the outside World thinks ? He agreed to delete the posts and not write anymore and charges were dropped , that was the sensible thing for all concerned . Why are you complaining about the defamation law in this instance ? He never did get charged under that law 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mark131v Posted November 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2020 From the NY Times, it would appear that the Hotel was happy to drag out the misery and it took TA getting involved to get them to drop the case Must be really frustrating for the Hotel Hi-So when those pesky foreigners don't play the game and don't bow to Thai intimidation, well don TripAdvisor!!! https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/world/asia/thailand-hotel-tripadvisor-jail.html Tripadvisor began paying his legal fees and helped bring the parties together to negotiate. Eventually, the Sea View agreed to drop its complaint if Mr. Barnes made a “sincere apology” for his reviews, which they said included “xenophobic comments against hotel staff.” Mr. Barnes accepted the offer, and in a statement that resembled a forced confession, he apologized and thanked the hotel for forgiving him. The fine print of the settlement also required Mr. Barnes to obtain an agreement from Tripadvisor, and he asked the company for a commitment that it would not post a “red badge” warning — Tripadvisor’s most dreaded notice — on the hotel’s page. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airalee Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 minute ago, alyx said: a cell is a cell: being deprived of freedom and rights ( in some case) You are kidding right? And it also makes a huge difference between being in a cell pending investigation/trial and being in cell after judgment: in the first case, one doesn't know the outcome. You are pushing the semantic a bit far because you want to be right but the result is the same: a cell is a cell. To add to my previous reply to your reply to me, I also agree with what you say here and think that when one weighs the actions of the “reviewer” vs the reaction of the hotel, I still side with the reviewer even though I think his review was an example of someone “venting their frustration”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Airalee said: I agree with everything you say although in his review, he did in fact use the words “slave labor” in his description of how the staff treated the workers. That goes far beyond reviewing a product or service. I appreciate but you see, you are in this case the correct example of what I am trying to express: you wrote "insinuated" and now it is "use the words" . As I wrote, I did nor read his posts and they are not the subject here but still, words make a humongous difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark131v Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 5 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: It wasnt negative review though , it was a campaign to attack the hotel with dishonest fake reviews . Trip Advisor should warn people not to make false reviews Nope it was 4 reviews over a period of weeks hardly a smear campaign and who is to say his observations are wrong, was you there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, mark131v said: Nope it was 4 reviews over a period of weeks hardly a smear campaign and who is to say his observations are wrong, was you there? And the posts only stopped after he got arrested , the hotel were concerned that it would be an endless campaign and so informed the authorities . It has been shown that the reviews were not true 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airalee Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, alyx said: I appreciate but you see, you are in this case the correct example of what I am trying to express: you wrote "insinuated" and now it is "use the words" . As I wrote, I did nor read his posts and they are not the subject here but still, words make a humongous difference I understand what you are saying. If I were to elaborate, it could be misconstrued to be something akin to what we have read about the fishing industry here in Thailand. That’s why I used the word “insinuated” rather than saying he flat out accused them of slave labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark131v Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: He was posting various different bad fake reviews on numerous websites using false different names over the course of a few weeks , the hotel management asked him to cease, but he continued and so the hotel informed the police Blimey you are slow on the uptake! it was 4 reviews on 2 platforms over a period of weeks, do try to keep up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post alyx Posted November 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Airalee said: To add to my previous reply to your reply to me, I also agree with what you say here and think that when one weighs the actions of the “reviewer” vs the reaction of the hotel, I still side with the reviewer even though I think his review was an example of someone “venting their frustration”. Thank you ???? yes..or no... because we do not know what really went on during the argument. It is not siding with the hotel or the guest, which I don't. It is only about the degree of retaliation used. I am sure that the hotel not see that coming and it did get out of hands once police was involved. A pity really because the hotel may have been right and the poster a filthy liar. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kaopad999 Posted November 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2020 6 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: Many Countries have slander laws . The American guy didnt get charged for writing a negative review, he got charged with lying about the hotel and writing false reviews Thank you. someone who has actually read & understands the full story. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Just now, Airalee said: I understand what you are saying. If I were to elaborate, it could be misconstrued to be something akin to what we have read about the fishing industry here in Thailand. That’s why I used the word “insinuated” rather than saying he flat out accused them of slave labor. allegedly ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Saucage Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 I have to admit that after posting that warning on the hotels side, TripAdvisor made a big jump upwards in my personal appreciation. Again, well done, TripAdvisor! In future, it will be a pleasure for me to post more reviews myself, both positive and negative. And I don't care about the local Mafia. I support freedom of speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bigz Posted November 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2020 6 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: The guy didnt write a honest review though , he wrote numerous false allegations because he got charged corkage on alcohol be bought into the hotel from outside . The American guy waged a campaign against the hotel because he got upset about not being allowed to bring in beer from 7/11 . Unfair on the hotel for Trip advisor to issue a warning , when the American guy wrote false reviews All true but still wrong...getting someone arrested for this is way too far. Every good businesses all over the world are getting the occasional unfair, damaging reviews but no one gets(and shouldn't get)locked up. Only in Thailand. The management screwed it up big time. They should have kept quiet. If the majority of the reviews are good a few bad ones are not a major issue. Now they created a major issue for the company and Thailand to be fair. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, alyx said: a cell is a cell: being deprived of freedom and rights ( in some case) You are kidding right? And it also makes a huge difference between being in a cell pending investigation/trial and being in cell after judgment: in the first case, one doesn't know the outcome. You are pushing the semantic a bit far because you want to be right but the result is the same: a cell is a cell. Yes, but what I mean is that the Thai judiciary system didnt sentance him to a jail term for the offence . I am talking about the penalties for crimes in Thailand , rather than the difference between a police cell and a jail cell . This guy didnt receive a jail term and didnt go to jail , but yes, police cells and jail cells are quite similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: And the posts only stopped after he got arrested , the hotel were concerned that it would be an endless campaign and so informed the authorities . It has been shown that the reviews were not true And this statement begs the question: by whom was it shown? If I were threaten of jail for such a trivial matter I would even say that I invented the whole and never stayed at the place. You would be surprised to learn how easy it is to manipulate words let alone human beings. This being said I am not able to say who is right or wrong ( not the point anyway ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kaopad999 Posted November 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, PattayaMale said: Maybe there would have been more bad reviews. Many people who travel through Thailand know how dangerous it is to post honest reviews that are negative. The hotel should have just ignored his reviews. There was no damage done to the hotel if they had many positive reviews. The hotel management went too far. They actually hurt the reputation of the poster. This law is a double sided blade. It can cut both ways. The Hotel manager tried talking with him to come to some sort of resolution, but the idiot ignored it until he was arrested. once arrested he was crying and pleading for help. Bullies will always eventually get what they deserve. Edited November 12, 2020 by Kaopad999 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Just now, CorpusChristie said: Yes, but what I mean is that the Thai judiciary system didnt sentance him to a jail term for the offence . I am talking about the penalties for crimes in Thailand , rather than the difference between a police cell and a jail cell . This guy didnt receive a jail term and didnt go to jail , but yes, police cells and jail cells are quite similar So we agree then: he spent a limited time in jail....for alleged false comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, mark131v said: Blimey you are slow on the uptake! it was 4 reviews on 2 platforms over a period of weeks, do try to keep up... ...................and only stopped when the got arrested 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MyEgo Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 6 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: The guy didnt write a honest review though , he wrote numerous false allegations because he got charged corkage on alcohol be bought into the hotel from outside . The American guy waged a campaign against the hotel because he got upset about not being allowed to bring in beer from 7/11 . Unfair on the hotel for Trip advisor to issue a warning , when the American guy wrote false reviews I understand what you are saying, however, TripAdvisor now has a duty of care to warn all intending parties of the consequences if they make a comment about a hotel, restaurant or something else in Thailand as the law states, defamation here is dealt with swiftly as has been shown and TripAdvisor could find themselves on the other end of a lawsuit if not careful for not warning people about this, no doubt legal advice was sort and provided. I think signalling out this hotel in particular is a bit unfair, as it should be on every place in Thailand, that said, let this be a lesson to Thai's, that the greater democracy in the world outside of Thailand doesn't work this way, suffice to say, the Thai's could learn from this and remove such draconian laws, especially if they are a democracy as they say they are. Criticism is a part of life and I am sure if one allows people to speak freely about their experiences at a hotel or restaurant etc etc, then one will make there own decision as to whether they will go there or not, owners of businesses have no control or say in the matter. I do hope the chap that stayed at this hotel and works here isn't made a scapegoat over this with his work permit extension being cancelled all of a sudden or in the future, but I am quite certain this owner will be slipping a few envelopes to get the last word in, might be wrong, but this is certainly the country for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expat Tom Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Apparently the operators of the hotel never heard to old saying, " The Customer is Always Write". There is another old says that says, "You might be right and dead wrong at the same time". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark131v Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 hour ago, herwin1234 said: i have followed the tread of the original post, with more details in it. what i remember it was not ONE bad negative review but a whole longrunning smear campaign by the unsatisfied hotel guest. Sorry cant find the original tread of that post. draconian? i dont think so. there is a HUGE differnce between any objective factual and even emotional negative review, and a review that is clearly made of lies and misinformation to clearly falsely accuse or embarres a business, or, any private person. basically, it was not somebody expressing his negative experience but plain and simple cyberbullying. I followed it too, it was four reviews, 2 on TA one of which arguably had been removed until Seaview released it in their damage limitation statement the other 2 were on google, critical certainly right or wrong, who knows but they were his opinion.. All of this was over a period of weeks that is not a long running smear campaign anyway if you want to smear your business make sure you repeatedly get yourself all over the international press by demonstrating how petty and vindictive you are ????????!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: ...................and only stopped when the got arrested telephones and computers are not allowed in jail ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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