Irish PM says on Brexit: Biden wants a deal so Johnson should knuckle down

[transam]

Just now, 473geo said:

Oh but they are trans - according to the tvisa  'experts' UK faces disaster of catastrophic proportions now that Biden is elected

 

I am really surprised so many have not bolted for the door....do they not read Tvisa

Well I have just had one of them, a non Brit,  telling me I shouldn't post on Brexit stuff and stick to the motoring forum...????

[robblok]

1 hour ago, transam said:

I am not an insider or a fly on the wall to know what will happen, and I suspect you aren't either...

No but i read news articles and make my statements based on that. You can't be bothered by such things. Is the language to difficult ? It isnt for me that is why i manage more then one sentence and i can put things together. You seem to have a problem with that.

[robblok]

Just now, 473geo said:

Rob you are the reader, I recd grants to maintain an 'area of natural beauty'  not use fertilisers, my former boss was paid to cease milk production, remember the butter mountain?

That is ages ago, i been reading and looking up your claim for now I cant find it. What i do read is that farmers get subsidized (something I am against but hey can't like all rules of the EU) based on how much land they have. 

 

I think its a bad system, that helps bigger farmers while smaller farmers should be helped. Anyway give me a link of.

 

You were implying that the market prices of food were high because of this while the subsidies just do the opposite.

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Oh but they are trans - according to the tvisa  'experts' UK faces disaster of catastrophic proportions now that Biden is elected

 

I am really surprised so many have not bolted for the door....do they not read Tvisa

No this is not catastrophic just gives them a still worse negotiating position. Even you cannot deny that. First you got pro Brit Trump now you got Biden. ITs a change not catastrophic but it will give the UK again less power in their bargaining. 

 

Anyone saying Brexit is beneficial for the economy is dreaming.

[transam]

Just now, robblok said:

No but i read news articles and make my statements based on that. You can't be bothered by such things. Is the language to difficult ? It isnt for me that is why i manage more then one sentence and i can put things together. You seem to have a problem with that.

Another condescending post from the Dutchman.

 

Most of your crew post links from the Guardian or The Independent because these are anti everything, and don't tell me I don't read anything because you don't know. Try pulling your head out of your dark space for a change..????

[473geo]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

That is ages ago, i been reading and looking up your claim for now I cant find it. What i do read is that farmers get subsidized (something I am against but hey can't like all rules of the EU) based on how much land they have. 

 

I think its a bad system, that helps bigger farmers while smaller farmers should be helped. Anyway give me a link of.

 

You were implying that the market prices of food were high because of this while the subsidies just do the opposite.

Subsidies that decrease the cost of production lower the market price

 

Subsidies that limit production control supply to maintain market prices

Edited November 15, 2020 by 473geo

[ballpoint]

3 hours ago, cmarshall said:

The English government should learn to pay more attention to the political opinions of Ireland who are now the leading anglophone nation in the EU.

But far from being the leading anglophobe nation.

[473geo]

28 minutes ago, robblok said:

No this is not catastrophic just gives them a still worse negotiating position. Even you cannot deny that. First you got pro Brit Trump now you got Biden. ITs a change not catastrophic but it will give the UK again less power in their bargaining. 

 

Anyone saying Brexit is beneficial for the economy is dreaming.

 

Here is another thought Rob, if the GBP slips against the Euro as the Tvisa doom mongers so readily predict. UK exports abroad will be more attractive to the buyers, and UK produce due to price inreases in overseas produce will become more attractive to the UK population. I am surprised you guys that live in Thailand have not worked this out. Do you really think the EU is going to drive the GBP way down? and UK production up?

[cmarshall]

12 minutes ago, 473geo said:

 

Here is another thought Rob, if the GBP slips against the Euro as the Tvisa doom mongers so readily predict. UK exports abroad will be more attractive to the buyers, and UK produce due to price inreases in overseas produce will become more attractive to the UK population. I am surprised you guys that live in Thailand have not worked this out. Do you really think the EU is going to drive the GBP way down? and UK production up?

 

Figures that the Leavers would be innumerate in addition to the rest of their ignorance.  So, your economic model is that the pound will drop after Dec. 31, because British exports will decline, ,but that's ok, because the drop in the pound will increase sales of British products?  Is this really the way your mind works?

[473geo]

24 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Figures that the Leavers would be innumerate in addition to the rest of their ignorance.  So, your economic model is that the pound will drop after Dec. 31, because British exports will decline, ,but that's ok, because the drop in the pound will increase sales of British products?  Is this really the way your mind works?

Well that was a real inept insult wasn't it   ????

 

Must try harder ????

[RayC]

12 hours ago, 473geo said:

 

Ray many years ago I learnt to believe the actions I witness, not the the headline customer seeking 'predictions' and 'statements' from the Media and others to suit their agenda. Perhaps you should think about a similar strategy.

Geo, Thank you for the advice. I feel it's only right to return your kind gesture.

 

I learnt many years ago that, broadly speaking, there are two types of opinion: (1) informed, which is arrived at after considering the available evidence and (2) unsubstantiated, which is basically wishful thinking. 

 

It's not too late for you to change and adopt the first approach.

[RayC]

12 hours ago, Lormak said:

2021 is going  to be fun!  Turn on the news, pull up a chair and break out the popcorn! Watch as waves of protests and civil disorder sweep across the EU. Paris and Berlin will be in flames in summer 2021. The EU is about to collapse under the weight of its own absurdity!

I don't for one minute expect your prediction to come true, but for the sake of argument, let's assume it does. Why should this be a source of pleasure?

[473geo]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

Geo, Thank you for the advice. I feel it's only right to return your kind gesture.

 

I learnt many years ago that, broadly speaking, there are two types of opinion: (1) informed, which is arrived at after considering the available evidence and (2) unsubstantiated, which is basically wishful thinking. 

 

It's not too late for you to change and adopt the first approach.

 

Just a differing approach Ray some buy with a major bias on reports and advice, others make decisions based on experience, of course if a mixture of critical and positive thinking regarding evaluation is not your thing, and experience is limited, then I guess the regurgitated anticipation of others is your only avenue.

 

Personally without prompt I have always been of the opinion that despite all the diatribe, posturing, and inane 'predictions' an agreement of sorts will be achieved. Hence I guess my rather flippant approach to the tvisa doom mongers ????

 

Are you guys now singing 'happiness is a thing called Joe' ????

Again without having to evaluate comments from any source, I think not one of the more exciting easy on ear renditions from Cher. Perhaps you could go away and read up before responding with your opinion ????

[Hi from France]

On 11/14/2020 at 10:20 AM, 473geo said:

The UK may well have to adapt, one thing is sure, it will, people are still passing through Europe to get to live and work in the UK. Investors and financial people are aware of the real possibility of a no deal. The GBP has not suffered anywhere near as much as those who pour scorn would envisage.

I'm curious to read you own estimates of the cost of not Brexit but just "the possibility of Brexit" for the UK these last 4 years. 

 

I guess you know many economists worked on that. So if you can, please detail us this costs. 

 

First we can limit the discussion to economy, but feel free to add world ranking, diplomacy and country reputation for honoring deals.. 

[473geo]

1 minute ago, Hi from France said:

I'm curious to read you own estimates of the cost of not Brexit but just "the possibility of Brexit" for the UK these last 4 years. 

 

I guess you know many economists worked on that. So if you can, please detail us this costs. 

 

First we can limit the discussion to economy, but feel free to add world ranking, diplomacy and country reputation for honoring deals.. 

 

first let us look at the daily lives of people in the UK these last 4 years - no dramatic change - excepting covid.

 

So pull out all your data and statistics, the on the ground every day existence has witnessed barely a ripple

 

 

[RayC]

48 minutes ago, 473geo said:

 

Just a differing approach Ray some buy with a major bias on reports and advice, others make decisions based on experience, of course if a mixture of critical and positive thinking regarding evaluation is not your thing, and experience is limited, then I guess the regurgitated anticipation of others is your only avenue.

 

Personally without prompt I have always been of the opinion that despite all the diatribe, posturing, and inane 'predictions' an agreement of sorts will be achieved. Hence I guess my rather flippant approach to the tvisa doom mongers ????

 

Are you guys now singing 'happiness is a thing called Joe' ????

Again without having to evaluate comments from any source, I think not one of the more exciting easy on ear renditions from Cher. Perhaps you could go away and read up before responding with your opinion ????

Geo, 

 

Your comments might carry more weight if you were to address directly the points that you were initially challenged on; however, unfortunately, you appear to be unable to do so. 

 

I have no doubt that you believe that this self-indulgent, pseudo-intellectual gibberish makes you appear intelligent. I'm afraid that I have concluded the exact opposite. Of course, this is just opinion; however, it is 'informed' opinion as I have based it on evidence i.e. your posts to date.

[473geo]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Geo, 

 

Your comments might carry more weight if you were to address directly the points that you were initially challenged on; however, unfortunately, you appear to be unable to do so. 

 

I have no doubt that you believe that this self-indulgent, pseudo-intellectual gibberish makes you appear intelligent. I'm afraid that I have concluded the exact opposite. Of course, this is just opinion; however, it is 'informed' opinion as I have based it on evidence i.e. your posts to date.

I have no interest in your opinion but good to see you have finally formulated one of your own. I see you are waiting to read more published opinion to assist in the evaluation of the Cher song.

 

You challenge my right to comment because I choose to ignore published works of paid scribes, predictions,  and 'possible outcomes' which invariably turn out to be ill thought out, or wrong, usually excused on the basis that one of the many included provoviso did not make an appearance. 

 

Yet people like yourself continue to believe, even pay for the privilege, at least my pseudo intellectual gibberish is free.

Economic forecasts, right, sure wouldn't we all be rich if they were so accurate?

Who predicted the departure of Cummings? oh right, suddenly now the many glorious 'predictions' from 'experts' are thrown into disarray, oh we didn't see that coming!! could change the whole situation..........give me break.......you continue reading, soaking up and evaluating conjecture if you wish, and regurgitate it as fact.

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by 473geo

[473geo]

16 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Is this the old 'They need us, more than we need them' argument? Again, where's the evidence to support that view?

No, just your inept interpretation of my statement, no support of your interpretation needed from me ????

[robblok]

5 hours ago, 473geo said:

Subsidies that decrease the cost of production lower the market price

 

Subsidies that limit production control supply to maintain market prices

Yes I get that i studied economics. You were talking about the second one not the first. The second one has not been in use for a while.

 

I thought you were talking about the prices of EU products being artificially inflated at the expense of the British population. The other kind would be good for the Brits (normal people not their farmers).

 

But would be unfair competition if the UK farmers are not supported. Then I would 100% agree with the Brits that are against it. Unfair is unfair. 

[Chomper Higgot]

29 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I have no interest in your opinion but good to see you have finally formulated one of your own. I see you are waiting to read more published opinion to assist in the evaluation of the Cher song.

 

You challenge my right to comment because I choose to ignore published works of paid scribes, predictions,  and 'possible outcomes' which invariably turn out to be ill thought out, or wrong, usually excused on the basis that one of the many included provoviso did not make an appearance. 

 

Yet people like yourself continue to believe, even pay for the privilege, at least my pseudo intellectual gibberish is free.

Economic forecasts, right, sure wouldn't we all be rich if they were so accurate?

Who predicted the departure of Cummings? oh right, suddenly now the many glorious 'predictions' from 'experts' are thrown into disarray, oh we didn't see that coming!! could change the whole situation..........give me break.......you continue reading, soaking up and evaluating conjecture if you wish, and regurgitate it as fact.

 

 

 

So while you eschewed publicized opinion on the matter, what was your prediction for the election?

[473geo]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So while you eschewed publicized opinion on the matter, what was your prediction for the election?

Which one? as you know Tvisa can slip back decades if the mood takes 

[473geo]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes I get that i studied economics. You were talking about the second one not the first. The second one has not been in use for a while.

 

I thought you were talking about the prices of EU products being artificially inflated at the expense of the British population. The other kind would be good for the Brits (normal people not their farmers).

 

But would be unfair competition if the UK farmers are not supported. Then I would 100% agree with the Brits that are against it. Unfair is unfair. 

 

Tell me Rob what is fair about goods from low paid workers, in countries where the minimum daily wage is less than hourly pay in Europe, allowed to compete against local production to drive it out of business?

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, 473geo said:

 

Tell me Rob what is fair about goods from low paid workers, in countries where the minimum daily wage is less than hourly pay in Europe, allowed to compete against local production to drive it out of business?

 

 

 

Check your wardrobe.

 

Is that the Brexit plan, the UK going into the manufacture of cheap clothing?

 

 

[473geo]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Check your wardrobe.

 

Is that the Brexit plan, the UK going into the manufacture of cheap clothing?

 

 

I think would be good if some manufacturing returns, why do you guys zoom in on one item as if there no other choices, bit narrow minded don't you think, lacking a bit of peripheral vision.

[RayC]

48 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I have no interest in your opinion but good to see you have finally formulated one of your own.

 

Narcissists rarely have much time for anyone apart from themselves, so no surprise there. 

 

Your (lack of) interest in my opinion is of no import to me, as I prefer to engage with individuals who can offer informed comment. Although you do not fall into this category, I will make an exception here.

 

48 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I see you are waiting to read more published opinion to assist in the evaluation of the Cher song.

Cher isn't really my cup of tea, so I haven't given much thought to the deeper, hidden philosophical meaning behind her rendition of 'Gimme, gimme, gimme (A man after midnight)'; however, if you post anything on it on TVF, I promise that I will try to read it.

 

48 minutes ago, 473geo said:

You challenge my right to comment

My challenge was not on your right to comment, but to offer a logical argument in support of your opinion.

 

48 minutes ago, 473geo said:

because I choose to ignore published works of paid scribes, predictions,  and 'possible outcomes' which invariably turn out to be ill thought out, or wrong, usually excused on the basis that one of the many included provoviso did not make an appearance. 

 

So you rely on nothing but your personal experience of the world to form your opinion? A rather limited sample size in more ways than one.

 

48 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Yet people like yourself continue to believe, even pay for the privilege, at least my pseudo intellectual gibberish is free.

 

To date, the evidence - that word again - would suggest that you would not have too many subscribers if you put your musings behind a paywall.

 

48 minutes ago, 473geo said:

 

 

Economic forecasts, right, sure wouldn't we all be rich if they were so accurate?

Who predicted the departure of Cummings? oh right, suddenly now the many glorious 'predictions' from 'experts' are thrown into disarray, oh we didn't see that coming!! could change the whole situation..........give me break.......you continue reading, soaking up and evaluating conjecture if you wish, and regurgitate it as fact.

 

 

That forecasts, research, etc can, in hindsight, be seen to be incorrect means that all such work is valueless and incorrect? Do you not seen the logical flaw in this argument: And what is the alternative? To trust and believe in the statements of a self-appointed oracle such as yourself?

 

Imo self-confidence is fine, arrogance not so much. Misplaced arrogance? Really not a good look.

[Chomper Higgot]

42 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I think would be good if some manufacturing returns, why do you guys zoom in on one item as if there no other choices, bit narrow minded don't you think, lacking a bit of peripheral vision.

The price will determine the location of production.

 

Unless of course you want people on low incomes to pay higher prices to stroke your nationalist leanings.

[473geo]

20 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Narcissists rarely have much time for anyone apart from themselves, so no surprise there. 

 

Your (lack of) interest in my opinion is of no import to me, as I prefer to engage with individuals who can offer informed comment. Although you do not fall into this category, I will make an exception here.

 

Cher isn't really my cup of tea, so I haven't given much thought to the deeper, hidden philosophical meaning behind her rendition of 'Gimme, gimme, gimme (A man after midnight)'; however, if you post anything on it on TVF, I promise that I will try to read it.

 

My challenge was not on your right to comment, but to offer a logical argument in support of your opinion.

 

 

So you rely on nothing but your personal experience of the world to form your opinion? A rather limited sample size in more ways than one.

 

To date, the evidence - that word again - would suggest that you would not have too many subscribers if you put your musings behind a paywall.

 

 

That forecasts, research, etc can, in hindsight, be seen to be incorrect means that all such work is valueless and incorrect? Do you not seen the logical flaw in this argument: And what is the alternative? To trust and believe in the statements of a self-appointed oracle such as yourself?

 

Imo self-confidence is fine, arrogance not so much. Misplaced arrogance? Really not a good look.

Arrogant, yep, self confident, yep, concerned about snipes and attempted put downs from anonymous internet contributors who have nothing better to do than discuss my attributes, or lack of them, no.

[473geo]

29 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The price will determine the location of production.

 

Unless of course you want people on low incomes to pay higher prices to stroke your nationalist leanings.

 

Government stimulus and support, create jobs, subsidise automation to cut labour costs, there are possibilities, maybe one has to be a bit of a narcissist to work it out  

[RayC]

1 hour ago, 473geo said:

Arrogant, yep, self confident, yep, concerned about snipes and attempted put downs from anonymous internet contributors who have nothing better to do than discuss my attributes, or lack of them, no.

Perhaps two things on which we (probably) agree are (1) we can trade insults all day (2) we both want the last word. However, it is becoming tedious for me and, no doubt, everyone else who can be bothered to read these exchanges.

 

So, here's how I am going to draw a line under things:

 

I forecast that you will reply to this post.

 

If you do, you falsify your own proposition that forecasts are invariably i.e. without exception incorrect, which gives me the smug - albeit I admit, childish - satisfaction of proving you logically incorrect. On the other hand, if you don't reply, I have a different sort of smug - although once again, childish - satisfaction of knowing that I've had the last word.

 

However, I am not completely ungenerous. If you wish to stick a 'sad' or 'confused' emoji against this post, then have it on me. I promise not to respond if you do.

[473geo]

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

Perhaps two things on which we (probably) agree are (1) we can trade insults all day (2) we both want the last word. However, it is becoming tedious for me and, no doubt, everyone else who can be bothered to read these exchanges.

 

So, here's how I am going to draw a line under things:

 

I forecast that you will reply to this post.

 

If you do, you falsify your own proposition that forecasts are invariably i.e. without exception incorrect, which gives me the smug - albeit I admit, childish - satisfaction of proving you logically incorrect. On the other hand, if you don't reply, I have a different sort of smug - although once again, childish - satisfaction of knowing that I've had the last word.

 

However, I am not completely ungenerous. If you wish to stick a 'sad' or 'confused' emoji against this post, then have it on me. I promise not to respond if you do.

????