Switching from Income Method to 800K Method for Retirement : First Time

[bobonzo]

Last year, I used the 65k/monthly Income Method for my Retirement Extension. A lot of papers. The IO suggested I use the 800k Method as it was simpler, and only the bank balance proof and time limits was necessary.  This was Nov 2019. I opened an account with KBank, and started depositing money monthly in order to have the 800K 3 months before my due date. I met the time limit with a month to spare.

 

Today I went to Samut Prakran Immigration with what I thought was all the correct documents. The desk clerk accepted my paperwork, but the approving officer said that I still needed proof of income source as before. I 'think' he explained that this was because I'm switching to the 800K Method for the first time ? I I believe I'm being told that to qualify I should have deposited 800K right after my last renewal was approved (Nov 2019) and ensure it was still 800k 3 months previous to my renewal now.

 

Apparently, next renewal won't need this proof.

 

I'm getting this through an interpreter so it's possible I'm not understanding 100%.

 

Can anyone clarify the procedure ? I was sure I understood what I needed to do, but now I'm confused.

 

Thanks

[allane]

My situation was not directly analogous to yours; take it for whatever it may be worth: For my first retirement visa, I was questioned about the origin of the B 800,000 (necessary letter & bankbooks submitted with application).  I had been working in Thailand for 15 yrs., and the money came from my savings. I provided 5 yrs.' worth of Income tax returns, which was enough to convince them that I was able to save that amount from my earnings.

I have seen subsequent posts on here suggesting that I should not have had to provide "proof" of the origin of the funds, but that didn't stop Immigration demanding it, even after I had explained the situation in Thai.  

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, allane said:

My situation was not directly analogous to yours; take it for whatever it may be worth: For my first retirement visa, I was questioned about the origin of the B 800,000 (necessary letter & bankbooks submitted with application).  I had been working in Thailand for 15 yrs., and the money came from my savings. I provided 5 yrs.' worth of Income tax returns, which was enough to convince them that I was able to save that amount from my earnings.

I have seen subsequent posts on here suggesting that I should not have had to provide "proof" of the origin of the funds, but that didn't stop Immigration demanding it, even after I had explained the situation in Thai.  

Where did you obtain the non O prior to applying for extension. If it was inside Thailand then you would need to show the money came from outside of Thailand for retirement.

Subsequent extensions would not require this

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by DrJack54

[allane]

In what was then a very new Chaeng Wattana Immigration Office.

[DrJack54]

Just now, allane said:

In what was then a very new Chaeng Wattana Immigration Office.

In that case you need to demonstrate the funds were from outside of Thailand.

[fishtank]

Money has to be in the bank two months before application.

Not three.

[allane]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

In that case you need to demonstrate the funds were from outside of Thailand.

As stated above, the funds were from within Thailand.

[DrJack54]

45 minutes ago, allane said:

As stated above, the funds were from within Thailand.

As stated above (correctly) that for first extension based on retirement to a non O obtained in Thailand then the 800k needs to be shown to have come from outside of Thailand.

Fact you worked here so many years they accepted it. Fortunately

Edited November 17, 2020 by DrJack54

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, bobonzo said:

Last year, I used the 65k/monthly Income Method for my Retirement Extension. A lot of papers. The IO suggested I use the 800k Method as it was simpler, and only the bank balance proof and time limits was necessary. 

For the 65k income method, all you need is a couple of letters from your bank and your bankbook.

The IO said it was simpler......................for HIM!

 

[khunjeff]

18 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

As stated above (correctly) that for first extension based on retirement to a non O obtained in Thailand then the 800k needs to be shown to have come from outside of Thailand.

Fact you worked here so many years they accepted it. Fortunately

 

Proof that the funds came from abroad has to be shown in order to obtain the actual Non-O visa in country, but isn't needed for the first extension or any subsequent extension (which isn't to say that some random officer might not ask for it anyway).

 

Regarding the situation of the OP, is he sure that the officer was actually asking about the source of the funds? When switching from the income method to the 800k method using gradual deposits instead of one lump sum, some people get caught out because there are one or more months during the year between extensions when they neither transferred 65k nor had 800k in the bank - meaning that they fell afoul of the requirements for those months.

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, khunjeff said:

Regarding the situation of the OP, is he sure that the officer was actually asking about the source of the funds?

First up your correct about the source of funds is in regards to non O at immigration.

Anyway that was all off topic as OP was not asking about that.

The OP wanted to change from income to money in bank method. It seems that the io wanted him to have prepared for the money in bank method from day 1 of the issue of his previous extension. I can understand that.

I thought you could continue with the income method for that period and deposit the 800k 2 months prior to application. Perhaps the OP did neither keep the income deposits going throughout the year or deposit the 800k in bank day of his last extension.

Hope someone can clarify what's required when you want to change method

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by DrJack54

[Peter Denis]

You are not applying for a NEW Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.

You are already staying in Thailand on a retirement extension based on your original Non Imm O Visa.  And for meeting the financial requirement for your extension application you want to switch from the 'monthly income transfer method' to the 'Funds-in-bank' method.

In order to do that the Imm Officer would first need to check whether you met the retirement extension conditions for the past year.

So you would need to show that you transferred 65K during each and every of the 12 months (some IOs require 13 months) preceding your application.  The foreign origins of those +65K transfers need to be proven, and the Imm Officer can also request you provide evidence of the SOURCE of those transfers.

Now when wanting to switch to the 800K Funds-in-Bank method, you would only need to show that you kept +800K during the two months (some IOs require 3 months) before the date of application.  There is no need to prove the origins nor the source of that +800K when applying for the 1-year extension.

Note: Normally it would not be a problem that you stopped the +65K transfers for the last 2 or 3 months, when you already have the +800K on your Thai bank-account.  But this being Thailand, and the rules for switching method are 'unwritten' it would be recommended to meet the requirements for both methods when applying.

>> The Imm Officer asking for proof that you prove the foreign origins of last year's +65K income transfers is fully correct.  You are indeed required to provide evidence that you met the financial conditions for last year's permission to stay, and then the Imm Officer will check whether you meet the conditions for the 'method switch' to the Funds-in-Bank method.

[Peter Denis]

30 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

...

Hope someone can clarify what's required when you want to change method

HI, drJack54 > Our posts crossed, but actually answered your question in my post above.

[The Theory]

23 hours ago, allane said:

have had to provide "proof" of the origin of the funds,

First timers need to do so (not sure if all IO ask or it). You can show your deposits to K bank (if you have any) from your monthly transfers from abroad. And get a copy of your transfers. 

[khunPer]

On 11/17/2020 at 5:50 AM, bobonzo said:

I I believe I'm being told that to qualify I should have deposited 800K right after my last renewal was approved (Nov 2019) and ensure it was still 800k 3 months previous to my renewal now.

 

Apparently, next renewal won't need this proof.

 

I'm getting this through an interpreter so it's possible I'm not understanding 100%.

 

Can anyone clarify the procedure ? I was sure I understood what I needed to do, but now I'm confused.

Your explanation sounds correct to me. You would still be on the old extension of stay until you renew this year with 800k baht deposit, as the rule for 800k baht deposit is, to keep 800k baht 3 month after renewal of extension of stay; a minimum of 400k baht the following approximate 6-7 month; and again 800k baht two month before next application for extension of stay.

 

Only when you the very first time apply for extension of stay after arrival on a non-O visa, or changed to non-O visa, you need two month maturing of the 800k baht deposit, or two month approval of the income method.

 

So switching method, when already living in the kingdom based on extension of stays, means that you need to fulfill the new method, or continue with the previous method – i.e. monthly income – until you are able to switch.

 

As I understand the rules, switching from income to deposit method would mean continue with monthly income for a full 12-month period, and have 800k baht matured minimum two month before the new application for extension of stay; or having 800k baht in deposit immediately upon the former permission for extension of stay was granted, and follow the required minimum deposits...????

[bobonzo]

4 hours ago, khunPer said:

Your explanation sounds correct to me. You would still be on the old extension of stay until you renew this year with 800k baht deposit, as the rule for 800k baht deposit is, to keep 800k baht 3 month after renewal of extension of stay; a minimum of 400k baht the following approximate 6-7 month; and again 800k baht two month before next application for extension of stay.

 

Only when you the very first time apply for extension of stay after arrival on a non-O visa, or changed to non-O visa, you need two month maturing of the 800k baht deposit, or two month approval of the income method.

 

So switching method, when already living in the kingdom based on extension of stays, means that you need to fulfill the new method, or continue with the previous method – i.e. monthly income – until you are able to switch.

 

As I understand the rules, switching from income to deposit method would mean continue with monthly income for a full 12-month period, and have 800k baht matured minimum two month before the new application for extension of stay; or having 800k baht in deposit immediately upon the former permission for extension of stay was granted, and follow the required minimum deposits...????

OK thanks so much for this clarification.

 

This is the first time I'm been aware of this. Lesson learned.

 

Thanks again for the response.

 

 

[bobonzo]

7 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

You are not applying for a NEW Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.

You are already staying in Thailand on a retirement extension based on your original Non Imm O Visa.  And for meeting the financial requirement for your extension application you want to switch from the 'monthly income transfer method' to the 'Funds-in-bank' method.

In order to do that the Imm Officer would first need to check whether you met the retirement extension conditions for the past year.

So you would need to show that you transferred 65K during each and every of the 12 months (some IOs require 13 months) preceding your application.  The foreign origins of those +65K transfers need to be proven, and the Imm Officer can also request you provide evidence of the SOURCE of those transfers.

Now when wanting to switch to the 800K Funds-in-Bank method, you would only need to show that you kept +800K during the two months (some IOs require 3 months) before the date of application.  There is no need to prove the origins nor the source of that +800K when applying for the 1-year extension.

Note: Normally it would not be a problem that you stopped the +65K transfers for the last 2 or 3 months, when you already have the +800K on your Thai bank-account.  But this being Thailand, and the rules for switching method are 'unwritten' it would be recommended to meet the requirements for both methods when applying.

>> The Imm Officer asking for proof that you prove the foreign origins of last year's +65K income transfers is fully correct.  You are indeed required to provide evidence that you met the financial conditions for last year's permission to stay, and then the Imm Officer will check whether you meet the conditions for the 'method switch' to the Funds-in-Bank method.

Thanks for this. I was not aware of this requirement until yesterday.

 

As for the monthly 65K deposit, I did continue this but I did miss one month. I guess I'll see if the IO gives me some wiggle room. Otherwise, I'lI find out what the penalty is.

 

Thanks again