People with different opinions must be allowed to speak freely: PEN International

[webfact]

People with different opinions must be allowed to speak freely: PEN International

By The Nation

 

 

Thai Centre – PEN International issued a statement on Wednesday calling on all parties involved in the political conflict to respect freedom of expression.

 

PEN International is a global association of writers that was created in 1921 to campaign for freedom of expression and uphold literature as a force of culture.

 

The statement said clashes between people with different viewpoints are escalating, and to avoid losses, the centre would like to ask all parties to stop using all types of violence, while the police should take care of people equally.

 

“The government, press, organisations and universities should create an atmosphere that allows people with different viewpoints to exchange their opinions based on reason and fact, without any hidden interests.”

 

The centre emphasised that backing opinions with fact and reason is key to solving violence and conflict in society.

 

“We hope all parties will pay respect to freedom of expression to maintain peace under a democratic system based on people’s safety and the country’s benefits,” the statement added.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30398222

 

-- © Copyright The Nation Thailand 2020-11-19

 

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[Flying Saucage]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

“The government, press, organisations and universities should create an atmosphere that allows people with different viewpoints to exchange their opinions based on reason and fact, without any hidden interests.”

 

Sounds like a nice advice. But it will not work in Thailand, a country where one side owns almost everything - the wealth, the power, the "truths" and the narratives - and has no intention at all to give anything to the other side.

 

The problems are not made by the "press, organisations and universities" as listed in the quote above. The problems are made by the government, which represents an establishment whose existance is based on exploiting the country and its people. 

 

Feudalism cannot be abolished just by advices as this one, asking to "create an atmosphere that allows people with different viewpoints to exchange their opinions based on reason and fact, without any hidden interests.”.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Flying Saucage

[mark131v]

Mmmm, yes good luck with that...

[djayz]

Theory and reality seldom mix well. 

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

People with different opinions must be allowed to speak freely:

tell that to Prayut and his gang, it may work 555

[yellowboat]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

“We hope all parties will pay respect to freedom of expression to maintain peace under a democratic system based on people’s safety and the country’s benefits,” the statement added.

The kids are protesting the lack of freedom of expression.   The junta does not respect anything but power.  PEN may need to be brought up to speed by somebody who is under 30 years old.

[Flying Saucage]

This statement of PEN International is far too soft. I usually prefer statements of HRW or Amnesty International far more, as they frankly speak out who it is who violates human rights and freedom of speech in the country.

 

The people of Thailand have been listening far too long already to this small and powerful minority which sets the standards, creates the false narratives, permanently lies, forces the people to growel and "love", and uses violence against everyone who complains about this or dares to speak out the truth. As usual in totalitarian countries, the people are forced to follow a powerful minority to avoid severe punishment.

 

It's time that the people stand up against this, it's time that the elite listens to the people.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Flying Saucage

[yellowboat]

Most of the stories on this forum regarding the youth lead protests are locked.   That should tell you something right there.  cha cha's buffoonery may have actually done some good awakening young people to their dismal prospects.   He is the catalyst for change.  Not the change he wanted, but possibly change that will lead to a better Thailand. History will show a clown in uniform opposing young, educated people who are wanting freedom and openness.  

[Hayduke]

16 hours ago, webfact said:

People with different opinions must be allowed to speak freely

 

Surely Thailand is a perfect example of such freedom….

 

In Thailand freedom of opinion means everyone is always free to agree with the Hero-General… and freedom of speech means everyone can freely express their agreement with everything the Hero-General says and does.

 

How could anyone ever ask for anything more?....

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Hayduke

[hotchilli]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

“We hope all parties will pay respect to freedom of expression to maintain peace under a democratic system based on people’s safety and the country’s benefits,” the statement added.

An entire senate of hand-picked servants to obey the masters wishes... democracy?

[nobodysfriend]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

calling on all parties involved in the political conflict to respect freedom of expression.

 

 

17 hours ago, webfact said:

clashes between people with different viewpoints are escalating, and to avoid losses, the centre would like to ask all parties to stop using all types of violence, while the police should take care of people equally.

 

 

17 hours ago, webfact said:

create an atmosphere that allows people with different viewpoints to exchange their opinions based on reason and fact

There never was something that could be called " freedom of expression " in Thailand .

Not even here , on TV ...

[newatthis]

2 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

 

 

There never was something that could be called " freedom of expression " in Thailand .

Not even here , on TV ...

Yeah, I'm amazed this topic got this far!

[John Drake]

20 hours ago, webfact said:

“The government, press, organisations and universities should create an atmosphere that allows people with different viewpoints to exchange their opinions based on reason and fact, without any hidden interests.”

 

They ought to tell that to Mark Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey.

[John Drake]

When I first came here, there was freedom, as long as you didn't touch one subject. And I can speak from direct experience and state that at least until six or seven years ago there was far more academic freedom in Thai universities than in American ones. As to the state of affairs these days, I have no comment.

[Golden Triangle]

5 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

 

 

There never was something that could be called " freedom of expression " in Thailand .

Not even here , on TV ...

 

Yet if you read the articles in the other well known English language paper, in similar stories the readership are allowed to comment, not all I grant you, but far more than the closed topics here, I wonder why that is..............

[rupert the bear]

its not just thailand but this is a bad case. we see it in our own countries,social media censors posts ,newspapers and tv no longer report news we just get their opinions on matters,look at the garbage spouted in the US election just gone and govts too,double standards censorship ,hypocrisy and closing down any criticism or questioning of their right to rule although theyve shown demonstrably long before covid that most arnt fit for purpose,most people are losing jobs ,work time etc but govts still demand that we give them and their workers a raise.the private sectors cut wages.if they are judged on results we should get refunds.so much for democracy.we are ignored or shut up

[Mike k]

18 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Most of the stories on this forum regarding the youth lead protests are locked.   That should tell you something right there.  cha cha's buffoonery may have actually done some good awakening young people to their dismal prospects.   He is the catalyst for change.  Not the change he wanted, but possibly change that will lead to a better Thailand. History will show a clown in uniform opposing young, educated people who are wanting freedom and openness.  

2 clowns 

[Mike k]

15 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

 

 

There never was something that could be called " freedom of expression " in Thailand .

Not even here , on TV ...

True there is no true freedom of speech on this site 

[TooBigToFit]

I often wonder why the news and forums post topics that they won't allow people to comment on. Are they posting those stories as a warning or threat to others? Human lives are at stake and literal human rights abuse of teenagers is the topic so you would think they would stand on the right side of history and do the right thing rather than be silent in the face of human rights abuses. 

[Tounge Thaied]

One can understand why the student, why the young inherently rebel... they intuitively know the truth.

Some people might be deeply shocked by words, images, arguments and ideas that are sometimes put forward in a free society. But in a free society, we have no right to prevent free speech and block other people’s opinions, even if we all disagree with what is said or find it offensive or immoral. There is certainly a case for curbing language that incites people to violence against others, or that recklessly endangers life and limb – like the obvious example of shouting ‘Fire!’ in a theatre. Likewise, there is a case that children need special protection also, which is why, for example, we have age classifications on movies and games.

However, it is very different from preventing particular words, images, arguments and ideas from being aired at all. There can be no such censorship in a society of free individuals – for then they would not be free. Chog Dee... Lets all remain free shall we. 

[Salerno]

4 minutes ago, TooBigToFit said:

I often wonder why the news and forums post topics that they won't allow people to comment on.

 

Self preservation.

 

Under current laws (regardless of how draconian and wrong they may be) the site would be closed down, the owners prosecuted and possibly even jailed and then deported if they let anonymous posters say whatever they want to.

[Tounge Thaied]

13 minutes ago, TooBigToFit said:

I often wonder why the news and forums post topics that they won't allow people to comment on. Are they posting those stories as a warning or threat to others? Human lives are at stake and literal human rights abuse of teenagers is the topic so you would think they would stand on the right side of history and do the right thing rather than be silent in the face of human rights abuses. 

You bring up an excellent point. Why do the news forums post topics that are often clearly going to incite robust discussion... to then only censor that discussion? 

[johng]

18 minutes ago, Salerno said:

possibly even jailed and then deported

You do know who "owns"  Thaivisa now  ? ( clue at the top of the page)  they can't be deported   and lean in a certain political direction  which may explain some of the closed threads.

[Salerno]

6 minutes ago, johng said:

You do know who "owns"  Thaivisa now  ?

 

Yes I do, doesn't necessarily protect them from the laws though nor does it protect the westerners that "work" on the site that are in Thailand (as a percentage obviously do) and can have their permission to stay removed on the whim of an arguably archaic "justice" system.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Salerno

[Tounge Thaied]

52 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Yes I do, doesn't necessarily protect them from the laws though nor does it protect the westerners that "work" on the site that are in Thailand (as a percentage obviously do) and can have their permission to stay removed on the whim of an arguably archaic "justice" system.

We all have our own FREE WILL choice. Immorality is a choice. Great example of doing the right thing in journalism is the recent happenings with Glenn Greenwald. That's what morality looks like. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Tounge Thaied
spelling and content

[John Drake]

2 hours ago, Salerno said:

 

Self preservation.

 

Under current laws (regardless of how draconian and wrong they may be) the site would be closed down, the owners prosecuted and possibly even jailed and then deported if they let anonymous posters say whatever they want to.

 

Nobody on this forum can "say whatever they want to." TVF has an army of people to check on posts. And they're deleted left and right. That is why the question arises as to why so many topics are closed. And the fact that the same topics on the Bangkok Post have open, moderated comments attached to them is proof that owners are not prosecuted, jailed or deported.

[Mike k]

5 hours ago, TooBigToFit said:

I often wonder why the news and forums post topics that they won't allow people to comment on. Are they posting those stories as a warning or threat to others? Human lives are at stake and literal human rights abuse of teenagers is the topic so you would think they would stand on the right side of history and do the right thing rather than be silent in the face of human rights abuses. 

One news story was posted but comments not allowed 

[Salerno]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

And the fact that the same topics on the Bangkok Post have open, moderated comments attached to them is proof that owners are not prosecuted, jailed or deported.

 

Good for the Bagkok Post. They have come to a decision based on their risk assessment TV has done the same. Nice to have options.

[TooBigToFit]

Yahoo used to be a very open place for chats, rants, discussion and propaganda from all sides but a few months ago it ended all its comments. I suspect the Bangkok Post will do the same if they support the status quo and traditional establishment. Taking away voices is as powerful to the issues and stories as taking away votes is at the poll booths.

[Mike k]

22 minutes ago, TooBigToFit said:

Yahoo used to be a very open place for chats, rants, discussion and propaganda from all sides but a few months ago it ended all its comments. I suspect the Bangkok Post will do the same if they support the status quo and traditional establishment. Taking away voices is as powerful to the issues and stories as taking away votes is at the poll booths.

Yahoo would also censor comments