EU leaders deadlocked over recovery plan after Hungary, Poland veto

[webfact]

EU leaders deadlocked over recovery plan after Hungary, Poland veto

By Jan Strupczewski

 

FILE PHOTO: European Union flags flutter outside the European Commission headquarters in Brussels, Belgium August 21, 2020. REUTERS/Yves Herman

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union leaders clashed briefly on Thursday over a veto by Poland and Hungary of the bloc's 1.8 trillion euro plan to recover from the recession caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, but agreed in a virtual summit to allow more time for an agreement.

 

The veto is likely to delay hundreds of billions in EU funds at a time when the 27-nation bloc is grappling with a second wave of the coronavirus and its economy is likely to shrink in the last three months of the year in a double-dip recession.

 

Governments are desperate to get jointly borrowed EU money - the first-ever attempt by the bloc to borrow and spend together - to save businesses and jobs.

 

But Warsaw and Budapest have refused to back the financial plan for the whole EU, even though they are beneficiaries, because the money is conditional on respecting the rule of law.

 

Both countries are under EU investigation for undermining the independence of courts, media and non-governmental organisations, and with the condition in place they risk losing access to tens of billions of euros.

 

EU leaders meeting by video-conference on Thursday evening discussed the stand-off for less than half an hour, and - with no easy solution at hand - agreed that the dispute should be parked and handed to experts to find a way forward.

 

"There is consensus on the EU budget, but not on the rule-of-law mechanism," German Chancellor Angela Merkel told a news conference after the meeting. "This (veto) means ... we have to continue talking with Hungary and Poland."

 

While the two eastern European countries refuse to support the financial plan with the rule of law condition, others, including the Netherlands and the European Parliament, refuse to accept it without it.

 

Both sides appeared to be digging in.

 

"There is zero chance for the EU budget or the rescue package to take effect in its present form," Gergely Gulyas, the Hungarian prime minister's chief of staff, told a briefing.

 

Poland's lower house of parliament voted through a resolution supporting the government's veto.

 

But a government spokesman left the door open for striking a deal, given that Poland alone would get more than 130 billion euros from the financial package.

 

"We are convinced that a compromise will be reached in the negotiation process that will enable the Polish government to accept a solution," he told Reuters by text message.

 

RULE OF LAW ROW

Critics of Poland and Hungary were equally determined.

 

The European Parliament said in a statement it would not accept any dilution of a rule-of-law condition that had already been watered down from its original demands.

 

The financial package is made of a 1.1 trillion euro 2021-2027 EU budget and the 750-billion-euro recovery fund. Neither can be offered without the unanimous support of all EU governments and the European Parliament.

 

While officials expected no immediate solution to the stand-off, diplomats informally discussed various options.

 

Paris has signalled the EU might move ahead with the recovery fund without Poland and Hungary under an EU "enhanced cooperation" law that allows a group of at least nine countries to pursue a joint project if others object.

 

The Netherlands has hinted at moving ahead with an intergovernmental treaty that would exclude Warsaw and Budapest.

 

Neither option would be optimal, diplomats said, as they would take time, which the EU does not have. They would also face problems setting up the joint EU borrowing mechanism that is the whole point of the current recovery fund, backed by the joint EU budget and new EU taxes that would pay it back.

 

(Additional reporting by Andreas Rinke in Berlin, Joanna Plucinska, Agnieszka Barteczko and Pawel Florkiewicz in Warsaw, Krisztina Than in Budapest, and Carreno Belen in Madrid; Writing by Jan Strupczewski and John Chalmers; Editing by Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-11-20

 

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[JonnyF]

Good to see member states standing up to the EU at last.

 

Bad timing for the EU but using the threat of withholding money to dictate policy and legislation in member states was never going to go down well. Unelected EU leaders deciding the 'correct' values of democratically elected governments in so called sovereign states and then punishing those who don't comply with their cultural and political values by withholding funds ????. No thanks.

 

Our decision to leave in 2016 looks better and better. Well done the UK electorate ????.

[thaibeachlovers]

Is this the beginning of the end for the grand experiment? One hopes it is.

[placeholder]

54 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Good to see member states standing up to the EU at last.

 

Bad timing for the EU but using the threat of withholding money to dictate policy and legislation in member states was never going to go down well. Unelected EU leaders deciding the 'correct' values of democratically elected governments in so called sovereign states and then punishing those who don't comply with their cultural and political values by withholding funds ????. No thanks.

 

Our decision to leave in 2016 looks better and better. Well done the UK electorate ????.

Hungary no longer qualifies to be called a democracy.

Poland is well on the way.

Better to toss them both out and enjoy an unsubsidized existence if they don't want to conform to EU rules.

[jollyhangmon]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Hungary no longer qualifies to be called a democracy.

Poland is well on the way.

Better to toss them both out and enjoy an unsubsidized existence if they don't want to conform to EU rules.

 

... indeed, 'enhanced cooperation' sounds fine, just bypass these parasites or better yet get rid of them altogether, couldn't agree more.

 

 

6 hours ago, webfact said:

But a government spokesman left the door open for striking a deal, given that Poland alone would get more than 130 billion euros from the financial package.

 

"We are convinced that a compromise will be reached in the negotiation process that will enable the Polish government to accept a solution," he told Reuters by text message

 

 

[transam]

Just now, jollyhangmon said:

 

... indeed, 'enhanced cooperation' sounds fine, just bypass these parasites or better yet get rid of them altogether, couldn't agree more.

 

 

 

 

But, how many of the 27 come under your "parasite" banner...?  ????

[jollyhangmon]

1 minute ago, transam said:

But, how many of the 27 come under your "parasite" banner...?  ????

 

... so far these 2 populist failures, fully agree with you brexiteers as well as the resident Thai-Stockholm syndromers: 'you don't like it, just leave'.

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, transam said:

But, how many of the 27 come under your "parasite" banner...?  ????

Well I was just echoing the language of Brexiters. Odd how they salute the defiance of those who have little use for democracy.

[transam]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well I was just echoing the language of Brexiters. Odd how they salute the defiance of those who have little use for democracy.

What like, some remainers posting here...?

[luckyluke]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Our decision to leave in 2016 looks better and better. Well done the UK electorate

Too soon to tell.

A too negative attitude, is a bad thing.

A too positive, maybe as well. 

 

Beside that I believe the E.U. wil find a solution for their actual problem.

Maybe I am too positive.

[welovesundaysatspace]

It’s unfortunate there doesn’t seem to be any way to just kick out undemocratic right-wing populist regimes. It was a mistake to require an unanimous vote for decisions like budget sign-off etc. 
 

At least the majority of EU members seems to be determined to not longer accept fascists in the club. I hope they’ll find a way to deal with them. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

7 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Good to see member states standing up to the EU at last.

I’m not surprised a Brexiteer sympathizes with undemocratic populist regimes. Can’t you take those two with you while you’re leaving? 

[mrfill]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

It’s unfortunate there doesn’t seem to be any way to just kick out undemocratic right-wing populist regimes. It was a mistake to require an unanimous vote for decisions like budget sign-off etc. 
 

At least the majority of EU members seems to be determined to not longer accept fascists in the club. I hope they’ll find a way to deal with them. 

It is said that people get the government they deserve and sometimes the people make daft choices and end up with some unsavoury governments. But, as we can observe currently in other places, these governments can be removed once the people vote them out. They may whinge and moan and try to prevent being removed but it can be done. However if a majority keep voting for undemocratic right-wing populist regimes, you must question the values of the population.

 

Two minor countries holding up the recovery plan is likely to continue when the 27 are asked to vote on the Brexit deal. It will only take one country to say no and the trade deal (if they get that far..) could be scuppered. Decisions are made unanimously in this case and one awkward cuss can/will wreck a lot.

[7by7]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Good to see member states standing up to the EU at last.

 

Bad timing for the EU but using the threat of withholding money to dictate policy and legislation in member states was never going to go down well. Unelected EU leaders deciding the 'correct' values of democratically elected governments in so called sovereign states and then punishing those who don't comply with their cultural and political values by withholding funds ????. No thanks.

 

Our decision to leave in 2016 looks better and better. Well done the UK electorate ????.

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this situation, what it does prove is that the governments of member states are not dictated to by the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels as these decisions are made the governments of members; the major ones unanimously as in this case.

 

Another leave campaign lie bites the dust.

[pacovl46]

Kick them out. All they do is wanting handouts anyway, but when it’s time to “do” they’re out, especially Hungary! Let them join the sinking ship called UK! ????

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:32 PM, luckyluke said:

Too soon to tell.

A too negative attitude, is a bad thing.

A too positive, maybe as well. 

 

Beside that I believe the E.U. wil find a solution for their actual problem.

Maybe I am too positive.

IMO too positive.

 

It started as a common MARKET and became some politicians wet dream of a political union. Should have stayed a market, IMO.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Should have stayed a market, IMO.

How’s that relevant here? If the EU was just the single market, you think populists trying to turn their countries into fascist states should be given the benefit of having access to it? The situation would be the same—it is the EU’s benefits that (hopefully) can exert pressure and lead to change.  

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO too positive.

 

It started as a common MARKET and became some politicians wet dream of a political union. Should have stayed a market, IMO.

Can we compare it to the U.S.A., where 50 states became 1 union ( United States ),

and where there is since long, a constant  battle between 2 political tendencies ?

[vogie]

On 11/20/2020 at 3:27 PM, welovesundaysatspace said:

I’m not surprised a Brexiteer sympathizes with undemocratic populist regimes. Can’t you take those two with you while you’re leaving? 

Good to see that all member states are equal, it is just unfortunate that some member states are more equal than others. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Good to see that all member states are equal, it is just unfortunate that some member states are more equal than others. 

And another Brexiteer coming to the rescue of populists trying to turn their countries into fascist states. Again, not surprised. 
 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And another Brexiteer coming to the rescue of populists trying to turn their countries into fascist states. Again, not surprised. 
 

Don't vote how Germany and France want you to vote or we'll ignore your vote, that's democracy all right.????????????

[welovesundaysatspace]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

Don't vote how Germany and France want you to vote or we'll ignore your vote, that's democracy all right.????????????

Isn’t that how England is treating Scotland, or Brexiteers are treating Remainers in the UK? 
 

Had you actually read the topic here before getting in your anti-EU obsession, you would know that the EU’s problem discussed here is that every member state in fact has a vote and decisions require an unanimous vote. So whatever you’re rambling about Germany and France is obvious hogwash.

 

Add to that that none of your Union’s affairs requires unanimous consent (from all member states; from all electorate) you’re also a hypocrite. 
 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[thaibeachlovers]

50 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Can we compare it to the U.S.A., where 50 states became 1 union ( United States ),

and where there is since long, a constant  battle between 2 political tendencies ?

IMO NO.

The US was always a political union with a federal government and a president. The EU leaders want the EU to be such a union, IMO, but not there yet.

[transam]

On 11/20/2020 at 3:25 PM, welovesundaysatspace said:

It’s unfortunate there doesn’t seem to be any way to just kick out undemocratic right-wing populist regimes. It was a mistake to require an unanimous vote for decisions like budget sign-off etc. 
 

At least the majority of EU members seems to be determined to not longer accept fascists in the club. I hope they’ll find a way to deal with them. 

The non-fascist UK has most certainly found out how your club works, you want Poland and Hungary thrown out but you won't do that with a country like the UK that has cash and water......Hypocrites...????

[transam]

On 11/21/2020 at 1:40 AM, pacovl46 said:

Kick them out. All they do is wanting handouts anyway, but when it’s time to “do” they’re out, especially Hungary! Let them join the sinking ship called UK! ????

Tell me how you know the UK is a sinking ship..?

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, transam said:

you want Poland and Hungary thrown out but you won't do that with a country like the UK that has cash and water......Hypocrites...????

Where did I say that I didn’t want the UK to be thrown out? 

[transam]

19 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And another Brexiteer coming to the rescue of populists trying to turn their countries into fascist states. Again, not surprised. 
 

The leader of your club was the biggest fascist state ever....

[transam]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Where did I say that I didn’t want the UK to be thrown out? 

Read it again....????

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

The leader of your club was the biggest fascist state ever....

 

This E.U. thing is so complicated, that I don't even know who the leader is.

 

The president of the European Parlement ?

The president of the European Commission ?

The president of the European council ?

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

This E.U. thing is so complicated, that I don't even know who the leader is.

 

The president of the European Parlement ?

The president of the European Commission ?

The president of the European council ?

Did anyone vote for them?