Pattaya: High Speed Rail taking shape - nearly one billion baht compensation sums discussed

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/21/2020 at 2:29 AM, ChouDoufu said:

 

the entire line through the cities will be elevated, most likely through the countryside as well, no crossings, no possibility for noodle carts or wayward buffalo to wander onto the tracks.

 

expect to see something like this for the full route, except for the few km where it dives underground at the airports.

 

 

https://www.globalconstructionreview.com/sectors/why-china-can-build-high-speed-rail34socheaply7365/

The danger will be if they try to do it on the cheap and use embankments instead of the above. We have all seen what happens on expressways without pedestrian overpasses- the locals just cross the road.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, sanuk711 said:

When it gets into Pattaya it will connect with the Monorail that they are starting to build.

I wasn't aware that construction had begun. I thought it was still at the phase of how to divvy up the baht.

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 11/20/2020 at 4:28 PM, malibukid said:

10 stations?  hardly an express

This beauty has 9 stations and a top speed of 500 km/h.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chūō_Shinkansen

[ChouDoufu]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The danger will be if they try to do it on the cheap and use embankments instead of the above. We have all seen what happens on expressways without pedestrian overpasses- the locals just cross the road.

 

the chinese are going to build it.  chinese planners, chinese engineers, thai labor.

 

"be happy in your work!"

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

the chinese are going to build it.  chinese planners, chinese engineers, thai labor.

 

"be happy in your work!"

Are the Thais not going to pay for it? He who pays the piper chooses the tune.

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 11/20/2020 at 4:28 PM, sanuk711 said:

Exactly what they used to say about the BTS, used to sit around Soi 7 beer bar in the late 90s , all the usual experts telling you how it couldn't be done --and then when it was, telling you how no one would use it. Last time I was in BKK had a job to even get on it --so packed out.

 

Yep lets all have a good laugh at the Thai's maybe one day British rail might catch up with them.

It was mostly Brits that supervised the building of the BTS and MRT mate. Sorry to break it to you.

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 11/22/2020 at 7:53 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

This beauty has 9 stations and a top speed of 500 km/h.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chūō_Shinkansen

Another technology invented by the British. 

[ChouDoufu]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are the Thais not going to pay for it? He who pays the piper chooses the tune.

 

he who pays the piper merely listens to the tune.

 

he doesn't play the pipe.

he doesn't know the notes.

he certainly doesn't mine the ore, smelt the alloys, or craft the pipe.

 

 

[sanuk711]

4 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

It was mostly Brits that supervised the building of the BTS and MRT mate. Sorry to break it to you.

Do you want to supply a link to that Mr Meeseeks? One that shows Wikipedia (and everyone else) is wrong when they say that  Seamens Mobility  Munich & Italian Thai Development built it.

 

Siemens, the supplier of the railway technology, and the Thai contractor, Italian Thai Development, built the system for BTSC. The "Skytrain" name ---https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTS_Skytrain

 

You know Siemens --the Germans, who with the Swedes are comming over to build the British railway link from London to Birmingham.....(if the Brit Government every gets round to actually doing it)

 

[sanuk711]

5 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

On 11/22/2020 at 7:53 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

This beauty has 9 stations and a top speed of 500 km/h.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chūō_Shinkansen

Another technology invented by the British. 

The Chuo Shinkansen is the culmination of Japanese maglev development since the 1970s, a government-funded project initiated by Japan Airlines and the former Japanese National Railways (JNR) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%AB%C5%8D_Shinkansen

Wow your doing it again aren’t you……maybe your getting mix up with the Bridge over the river Kwai, the Brits helped with that. The only other major engineering project that I can think of at the moment is that they are cleaning Big Ben---and the good news is that it will only take you 4 years---but you can watch the progress on Youtube live.

[ExpatOilWorker]

12 hours ago, sanuk711 said:

Do you want to supply a link to that Mr Meeseeks? One that shows Wikipedia (and everyone else) is wrong when they say that  Seamens Mobility  Munich & Italian Thai Development built it.

 

Siemens, the supplier of the railway technology, and the Thai contractor, Italian Thai Development, built the system for BTSC. The "Skytrain" name ---https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTS_Skytrain

 

You know Siemens --the Germans, who with the Swedes are comming over to build the British railway link from London to Birmingham.....(if the Brit Government every gets round to actually doing it)

 

The Italian might have made some fancy drawings on a piece of paper and yes, Thai muscle have mixed and poured the concrete,  but we all know that Crossy have laid every single cable and wire that keeps the BTS running and he is as British as the Queen herself!

[Trip Hop]

On 11/20/2020 at 11:16 AM, sanuk711 said:

Lets talk about the completely British projects (not ones that they were helped out with)---So how is that Hi speed rail to Birmingham...................

So you know a lot about the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (CTRL) project or HS1 as it is referred to these days do you?  Obviously not!

[sanuk711]

2 hours ago, Trip Hop said:

So you know a lot about the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (CTRL) project or HS1 as it is referred to these days do you?  Obviously not!

Please look Trip top----that's what that reply is in reference too. What Engineering feats have been lately by the UK without help...You are getting the Germans to build your rail link to Birmingham aren't you.?

[Trip Hop]

55 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Please look Trip top----that's what that reply is in reference too. What Engineering feats have been lately by the UK without help...You are getting the Germans to build your rail link to Birmingham aren't you.?

Well as an engineer who spent 2.5 years on CTRL Contract 330 and 18 months on CTRL Contract 570 (the track laying itself), including the fit out of the 3.2Km North Down's Tunnel (one of the largest in Europe at the time), I think I know a little bit more about who I was dealing with than you do?  The Design Consortium consisted of 2 UK firms, 1 American & 1 French, with Ove Arup, a UK consultancy as design lead.  The rest were rarely involved.  On Phase 1 from Folkestone to Fawkham Junction, from recollection all the companies involved with the exception of Hochtief and Vinci were UK based.  Even the companies that weren't UK based used UK sourced engineers and labour with the exception of some key staff.  Before that I was an engineer on the earthworks, infrastructure, runway and taxi ways at Hong Kong Airport.  The company was UK based Alfred McAlpine.  So quite simply sir, you are talking out of your proverbial!

[jacko45k]

Who cares what was built by whoever in the UK (UK rail network is hardly anything to crow over).....? Isn't this a Pattaya Forum?

Edited November 25, 2020 by jacko45k

[johng]

16 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

UK rail network is hardly anything to crow over

 

from Wiki   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain

 

Quote

The railway system in Great Britain is the oldest railway system in the world. The first locomotive-hauled public railway opened in 1825, which was followed by an era of rapid expansion. Most of the track is managed by Network Rail, which in 2017 had a network of 15,811 kilometres (9,824 mi) of standard-gauge lines

 

The UK has the 17th largest railway network in the world; despite many lines having closed in the 20th century, due to the Beeching cuts, it remains one of the densest networks. It is one of the busiest railways in Europe, with 20% more train services than France, 60% more than Italy, and more than Spain, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Portugal and Norway combined, as well as representing more than 20% of all passenger journeys in Europe.^[7] The rail industry employs 115,000 people and supports another 250,000 through its supply chain.^[8]

 

 

and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Thailand#Current_lines

 

Quote

Thailand has 4,431 kilometres of metre gauge railway tracks not including mass transit lines in Bangkok.

 

The SRT has long been popularly perceived by the public as inefficient and resistant to change. Trains are usually late, and most of its equipment is old and poorly maintained. The worst financially performing state enterprise, the SRT consistently operates at a loss despite being endowed with large amounts of property and receiving large government budgets; it reported a preliminary loss of 7.58 billion baht in 2010.^[5] Recurring government attempts at restructuring and/or privatization throughout the 2000s have always been strongly opposed by the union and have not made any progress.^[6][7]

Only two percent or less of Thailand's freight is transported by rail, despite rail being roughly half the cost of road transport and cleaner environmentally.^[8][9]

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/25/2020 at 3:34 PM, johng said:

The railway system in Great Britain is the oldest railway system in the world. The first locomotive-hauled public railway opened in 1825, which was followed by an era of rapid expansion. Most of the track is managed by Network Rail, which in 2017 had a network of 15,811 kilometres (9,824 mi) of standard-gauge lines

and then they went and let Virgin run the service from Euston to Holyhead. Has to be the worst train service I ever went on. Complete rubbish, IMO.

 

As long as they don't let Virgin have anything to do with the trains in Thailand they will be winning, IMO.

 

 

PS.

I also travelled on other company trains in the UK and they were fine. It seems that it's just Virgin that is pants. Perhaps it reflects Branson.

Edited November 26, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/25/2020 at 3:34 PM, johng said:

The worst financially performing state enterprise, the SRT consistently operates at a loss despite being endowed with large amounts of property and receiving large government budgets;

and yet, they transport thousands of poor people around Thailand, normally safely.

What passenger network that has to give people travel for such low prices could ever run at a profit?

IMO the government is doing what a government should do and provide a service for citizens that is affordable. Greed is not everything.

I've travelled many times on Thai rail and enjoyed it immensely. Alternatively I've travelled on Virgin in the UK and it was awful, and overpriced.

[ChouDoufu]

On 11/23/2020 at 9:07 PM, sanuk711 said:

The Chuo Shinkansen is the culmination of Japanese maglev development since the 1970s, a government-funded project initiated by Japan Airlines and the former Japanese National Railways (JNR) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%AB%C5%8D_Shinkansen

 

Wow your doing it again aren’t you……maybe your getting mix up with the Bridge over the river Kwai, the Brits helped with that. The only other major engineering project that I can think of at the moment is that they are cleaning Big Ben---and the good news is that it will only take you 4 years---but you can watch the progress on Youtube live.

 

 

yes, they helped build the bridge, but merely provided the labor.

the planning and management were japanese.

i saw the movie.

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I also travelled on other company trains in the UK and they were fine. It seems that it's just Virgin that is pants. Perhaps it reflects Branson.

In NW England the rolling stock was ancient, and it was all massively overcrowded during busy times...... slightest weather situation and we have delays and cancellations. Crowing on about how it was 100  years ago is of no value.

Given time most of SE Asia will be superior. 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

In NW England the rolling stock was ancient, and it was all massively overcrowded during busy times...... slightest weather situation and we have delays and cancellations. Crowing on about how it was 100  years ago is of no value.

Given time most of SE Asia will be superior. 

Yeah. The tube was stopped because of leaves on the line, and the day I had to go to Heathrow to fly to LOS because it snowed about a millimeter.

[Leaver]

11 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Given time most of SE Asia will be superior. 

How do you figure that?

 

The west will continue to develop technologies and sell it on to South East Asian countries and other developing nations. 

 

Are you suggesting Thailand will invest in research and development, invent new technologies, and sell it on to the west?

[HashBrownHarry]

13 hours ago, Leaver said:

How do you figure that?

 

The west will continue to develop technologies and sell it on to South East Asian countries and other developing nations. 

 

Are you suggesting Thailand will invest in research and development, invent new technologies, and sell it on to the west?

Are you suggesting SEA has no technology?

[Wongkitlo]

On 11/21/2020 at 6:04 PM, ChouDoufu said:

remember, this is just a media release, so sure, the top speed of the specific train model being purchased may be 250 kmh, but nobody said the trains would operate at that speed.

 

just for comparison,  the high-speed rail in hainan hits 250-ish on the straight runs, but on those long runs through sanya and haikou cities, it drops to 80 kmh.

Will be a Thai train driver. He will be able to get it up to 350kmh. 

[josephbloggs]

On 11/20/2020 at 5:47 PM, mrfill said:

The Eurostar (partly British built) has been going regularly since 1994 at 300kph.

And it took another 13 years before it could run at that speed in the UK.  An additional 13 years to build a high speed section from Ashford to St Pancras.  Nothing to boast about.

Crossrail four years late (so far) and billions over budget.

In Victorian times you could rightfully be proud of the British railways, but now we are decades behind so much of the world.  I really wouldn't be bragging about anything here.

[jacko45k]

22 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yeah. The tube was stopped because of leaves on the line, and the day I had to go to Heathrow to fly to LOS because it snowed about a millimeter.

Once had a train to Manchester cancelled as there was ice on the line. It couldn't have been a nicer crisp cold winter day with bright blue skies. With a long haul non-refundable flight to catch it doesn't help ones nerves.

(They tell lies.....)

Edited November 28, 2020 by jacko45k

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, Leaver said:

How do you figure that?

 

The west will continue to develop technologies and sell it on to South East Asian countries and other developing nations. 

 

Are you suggesting Thailand will invest in research and development, invent new technologies, and sell it on to the west?

Why have you switched to 'The West'? We were comparing with the UK. Isn't British rail the basket case of Europe now? And does it look like it will invest more than say Thailand or China is doing?

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

And it took another 13 years before it could run at that speed in the UK.  An additional 13 years to build a high speed section from Ashford to St Pancras.  Nothing to boast about.

Crossrail four years late (so far) and billions over budget.

In Victorian times you could rightfully be proud of the British railways, but now we are decades behind so much of the world.  I really wouldn't be bragging about anything here.

I blame the decline of Britain on WW1 when they sent university students to lead the troops in senseless frontal attacks. IMO the flower of British youth and the future of the country died in that insanity.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Why have you switched to 'The West'? We were comparing with the UK. Isn't British rail the basket case of Europe now? And does it look like it will invest more than say Thailand or China is doing?

IMO Britain has been in decline since WW2 ( and perhaps since WW1 ) ended. The current situation is IMO a linear decline in all aspects of British culture and ingenuity. IMO something died in the British spirit when they let America kick them out of Suez. Perhaps that was when they realised they were a "has been" nation. Even their "best friend" was kicking them when they were down.

[Leaver]

On 11/28/2020 at 6:56 AM, HashBrownHarry said:

Are you suggesting SEA has no technology?

Yes.  They are not developing any new rail and / or train technologies.