UK says tough tiers needed as PM tries to see off lawmaker backlash

[rooster59]

UK says tough tiers needed as PM tries to see off lawmaker backlash

By Sarah Young

 

FILE PHOTO: Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson wears a face mask as he visits the Public Health England site at the Porton Down science park, near Salisbury, Britain November 27, 2020. Adrian Dennis/Pool via REUTERS/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - England needs tough restrictions after its current lockdown ends if hospitals are not to become overwhelmed, a senior minister said, as Prime Minister Boris Johnson wrote to lawmakers to say the measures would end in February to try to quell opposition.

 

Britain upped preparations for a vaccine roll-out on Saturday as Johnson named Nadhim Zahawi as a new health minister to oversee its deployment and the Financial Times reported that the UK is set to approve the BioNTech Pfizer vaccine next week.

 

But despite progress on the vaccine, the government still needs to convince lawmakers to back its new tougher tiered measures which will put 99% of English people into the highest two levels of restrictions when the current national lockdown ends on Dec. 2.

 

Sky News reported that Johnson wrote to lawmakers ahead of their vote on the new measures on Tuesday to say that the tiered approach has "a sunset of 3 February" and they will be reviewed every two weeks before then. Lawmakers will then vote again on Jan. 27, according to the letter.

 

Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove wrote in the Times newspaper on Saturday to warn that without further restrictions on most of England's population hospitals would be overwhelmed. He urged lawmakers to back government plans.

 

More than 20 million people across large swathes of England will be forced to live under the toughest tier of coronavirus restrictions.

 

A growing number of lawmakers in Johnson's Conservative party have voiced opposition to the tiered restrictions plan.

 

Some argue that the areas they represent have low infection rates but face the toughest rules, while others say the new measures will cause unnecessary economic harm to local businesses.

 

There is also some public opposition to the restrictions. Police in central London said they made 155 arrests during anti-lockdown demonstrations on Saturday.

 

Gove said the level of infection across the country remained "uncomfortably and threateningly high".

 

"These new tiers, alongside the wider deployment of mass testing, have the capacity to prevent our NHS being overwhelmed until vaccines arrive," said Gove.

 

(Reporting by Sarah Young; Editing by Mike Harrison and David Evans)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-11-29

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[RichardColeman]

Dear Boris, the people are not angry with the tier system, they are angry that they are in a higher tier after 4 weeks of lockdown than they were before the lockdown - which kinda made the lockdown pointless and worse for them

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

A growing number of lawmakers in Johnson's Conservative party have voiced opposition to the tiered restrictions plan.

Don't blame them at all. Probably afraid of getting the boot in the next election. Someone is going to have to pay for the economic carnage.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"These new tiers, alongside the wider deployment of mass testing, have the capacity to prevent our NHS being overwhelmed until vaccines arrive," said Gove.

Sooooo, what's the plan if the vaccine doesn't work, if it's delayed, or if it doesn't last long? Lockdown and making people suffer, the only plan?

[melvinmelvin]

 

early awake? well spotted BJ, coop needed

[Natai Beach]

It would be funny to watch Bumbling Buffoon Boris if the grim reality was thousands of unnecessary deaths.
 

Mistake after mistake. Never ending. Contradicts himself everytime he speaks. 

 

The sad thing is since he contracted it himself he looks like he has actually been trying but ended up with a death rate worse than the USA.
 

He wants to relax the rules for five days over Xmas which will further the spread. 
 

 

[soalbundy]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sooooo, what's the plan if the vaccine doesn't work, if it's delayed, or if it doesn't last long? Lockdown and making people suffer, the only plan?

Well let them go out and party then as long as they realize that there won't be any beds available for them. What would you suggest? I'm sure you could do better than all the experts worldwide, drinking bleach perhaps?

Edited November 29, 2020 by soalbundy

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Well let them go out and party then as long as they realize that there won't be any beds available for them. What would you suggest? I'm sure you could do better than all the experts worldwide, drinking bleach perhaps?

Swedish solution, before they backtracked.

 

Why are you making it personal? Is that the best you can do, to attack other posters personally?

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Swedish solution, before they backtracked.

 

Why are you making it personal? Is that the best you can do, to attack other posters personally?

The Swedes backtracked for good reason. It isn't personal, it annoys me to hear people talking about their personal freedom in the middle of a pandemic while the health service is getting overwhelmed. Plenty of critic from people who couldn't put on a band aid correctly but no sensible suggestions what they think ought to be done, Trump tried, causing unnecessary deaths, and criticizes gas masks encouraging people to ignore safety precautions while he goes golfing. The UK has its own idiots, ''Christmas will be ruined", there's worse, try the ICU. Isolation seems to be the only logical measure but it won't work if enough people ignore it, even vaccination won't work if enough anti-vaccers don't vaccinate (my daughter is one). I too thought that covid was overhyped at first but surely there is enough evidence now to show how dangerous the situation is unless one belongs to the conspiracy nutters.

In short tell us what you would do differently.  

[thaibeachlovers]

22 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The Swedes backtracked for good reason. It isn't personal, it annoys me to hear people talking about their personal freedom in the middle of a pandemic while the health service is getting overwhelmed. Plenty of critic from people who couldn't put on a band aid correctly but no sensible suggestions what they think ought to be done, Trump tried, causing unnecessary deaths, and criticizes gas masks encouraging people to ignore safety precautions while he goes golfing. The UK has its own idiots, ''Christmas will be ruined", there's worse, try the ICU. Isolation seems to be the only logical measure but it won't work if enough people ignore it, even vaccination won't work if enough anti-vaccers don't vaccinate (my daughter is one). I too thought that covid was overhyped at first but surely there is enough evidence now to show how dangerous the situation is unless one belongs to the conspiracy nutters.

In short tell us what you would do differently.  

I would do what the Swedes did originally except I'd isolate the actually at risk eg people in old folks homes and not send infected people to them.

I'm not speaking as one not at risk, as I'd probably die if I got it ( I have a living will forbidding resuscitation and ventilation ). I just don't want to die hiding in my room in case I got a virus.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

it annoys me to hear people talking about their personal freedom in the middle of a pandemic while the health service is getting overwhelmed.

Till they declare martial law, I'm talking about personal freedom. If it's really that bad, why haven't they? Could it be that it's not as bad as they claim?

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Till they declare martial law, I'm talking about personal freedom. If it's really that bad, why haven't they? Could it be that it's not as bad as they claim?

That would be extreme, reserved for something like ebola. It is very bad for some, just bad for the majority and an inconvenience for others, unlike ebola it isn't fatal for the greater part of the population (although changes in the brain have been registered, unsure about long term effects). Governments are relying on the good sense of the population, for around 20% that is misplaced trust.

America is getting a 3rd wave on top of the second wave, they do have an extreme situation and yet 50 million are travelling for thanks giving, with so many Trump supporters what can you expect, they can't do ML, too many red necks with guns just waiting to vent their frustrations.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

It is very bad for some, just bad for the majority and an inconvenience for others,

About time they stopped penalising the others for the sake of the some. Isolate the some, and let everyone else have a life.

If they keep it up they are going have some serious repercussions from the populace, IMO, no matter what anyone says on here.

[soalbundy]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

About time they stopped penalising the others for the sake of the some. Isolate the some, and let everyone else have a life.

If they keep it up they are going have some serious repercussions from the populace, IMO, no matter what anyone says on here.

Yes they should send out forms for people to fill in, "If you caught covid would you (a) die  (b) be seriously ill but recover (c) only be mildly affected. If you have ticked (c) you may continue to live a normal life and continue with the everyday banalities that are so important to you such as pointless conversations in the bar, involve yourselves in pointless family dramas over Christmas, watch a live sporting event that you would otherwise be forced to watch on TV. Those who ticked (a) and (b) will unfortunately be forced into inhuman isolation with your TV, iphones, netflix, books etc. for a few months, this may cause some introspection and a new appraisal of life but never fear, you will soon be down the pub holding important conversations about football and politics".

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/1/2020 at 10:18 AM, soalbundy said:

for a few months, this may cause some introspection and a new appraisal of life but never fear, you will soon be down the pub holding important conversations about football and politics".

After a "few months" given many will have no job and no savings left, the pub will be but a dream of happier times in the past, as they won't be able to afford pub prices. They might not even be able to afford a house to live in and some might kill themselves, or beat their wife/ family. Suicide and domestic violence have apparently increased since lockdowns started. Increased evictions would happen if unemployment benefits are not sufficient, or cease.

 

Hardly the sort of thing to be sarcastic about.

[soalbundy]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

After a "few months" given many will have no job and no savings left, the pub will be but a dream of happier times in the past, as they won't be able to afford pub prices. They might not even be able to afford a house to live in and some might kill themselves, or beat their wife/ family. Suicide and domestic violence have apparently increased since lockdowns started. Increased evictions would happen if unemployment benefits are not sufficient, or cease.

 

Hardly the sort of thing to be sarcastic about.

It is as it is, there is a pandemic and measures have to be taken. Lockdowns have a negative effect on the economy and peoples lives, an alternative would be to ignore it and just let it run riot as in America with 6,000 dead a day, what is the point of complaining? Reminds me of the poem by Dylan Thomas,

 

Do not go gentle into that good night

Old age should burn and rage at close of day

rage, rage at the dying of the light

 

A pointless exercise, causality is the master of all things, unconcerned and impersonal, only acceptance remains.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

It is as it is, there is a pandemic and measures have to be taken. Lockdowns have a negative effect on the economy and peoples lives, an alternative would be to ignore it and just let it run riot as in America with 6,000 dead a day, what is the point of complaining? Reminds me of the poem by Dylan Thomas,

 

Do not go gentle into that good night

Old age should burn and rage at close of day

rage, rage at the dying of the light

 

A pointless exercise, causality is the master of all things, unconcerned and impersonal, only acceptance remains.

Dylan can do something un natural to himself. If this is the future I'm well out of it, and the sooner the better.

[soalbundy]

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Dylan can do something un natural to himself. If this is the future I'm well out of it, and the sooner the better.

Europe survived the plague which was far worse than covid. It was actually a positive game changer, afterwards due to the lack of labour the employers, the rich and the landowners had to pay higher wages and treat their employees better otherwise they would leave and find employment quickly elsewhere. Since covid has caused some social upheaval one might also expect some changes to occur in the aftermath, if not Karl Marx's tenet, "to each according to his needs, from each according to his ability" then perhaps the gung ho attitude of "we haven't got the money for that holiday, new car, new kitchen but hey we have a credit card" might change to, ''let's make do and save'', or ''instead of binge drinking at the weekends lets do some online studying and increase our market value.".....unlikely in this day and age of "I want it and I want it now'' attitude.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Europe survived the plague which was far worse than covid. It was actually a positive game changer, afterwards due to the lack of labour the employers, the rich and the landowners had to pay higher wages and treat their employees better otherwise they would leave and find employment quickly elsewhere. Since covid has caused some social upheaval one might also expect some changes to occur in the aftermath, if not Karl Marx's tenet, "to each according to his needs, from each according to his ability" then perhaps the gung ho attitude of "we haven't got the money for that holiday, new car, new kitchen but hey we have a credit card" might change to, ''let's make do and save'', or ''instead of binge drinking at the weekends lets do some online studying and increase our market value.".....unlikely in this day and age of "I want it and I want it now'' attitude.

I hear you and I agree- IF I were a young fella starting out in life. As an oldie, I see nothing positive to come. The country is too broke to give me a better pension or cheaper dental/ Dr. No chance for a decent pensioner home. Why would I have hope?

[soalbundy]

56 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I hear you and I agree- IF I were a young fella starting out in life. As an oldie, I see nothing positive to come. The country is too broke to give me a better pension or cheaper dental/ Dr. No chance for a decent pensioner home. Why would I have hope?

Hope isn't what's needed, acceptance of 'what is' without internal complaint IMO is the correct way. There is only this, hope means you are rejecting this moment, ignoring it, it is unique and only you can be aware of it, this, your moment. The past is gone, it doesn't exist, the future hasn't come yet, it doesn't exist, you only have this, as it is.

If you were given a million pounds you would look at the sunrise with joy, at the moment you don't and yet it is the same sunrise, the same 'it is as it is', happiness springs from the internal not the external, if you get happiness from the external it is always temporary and can (and will be) destroyed by causality, the stock market crash, the drunk driver who hits you, divorce, the death of a loved one or simply dissatisfaction because it could always be more. It is better to arrange yourself with 'what is' appreciate 'now' because there is nothing else.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Hope isn't what's needed, acceptance of 'what is' without internal complaint IMO is the correct way. There is only this, hope means you are rejecting this moment, ignoring it, it is unique and only you can be aware of it, this, your moment. The past is gone, it doesn't exist, the future hasn't come yet, it doesn't exist, you only have this, as it is.

If you were given a million pounds you would look at the sunrise with joy, at the moment you don't and yet it is the same sunrise, the same 'it is as it is', happiness springs from the internal not the external, if you get happiness from the external it is always temporary and can (and will be) destroyed by causality, the stock market crash, the drunk driver who hits you, divorce, the death of a loved one or simply dissatisfaction because it could always be more. It is better to arrange yourself with 'what is' appreciate 'now' because there is nothing else.

Thank you for your post.

Obviously if I won a million quid I'd be the happiest sandboy in the biggest pile of sand in the world as I survey the ocean from a mansion on a nice Thai beach with all the usual accessories for a rich guy in LOS.

 

Sadly, like they say, "if wishes were horses what a team I would have".

 

It is better to arrange yourself with 'what is' appreciate 'now' because there is nothing else.

Sadly, reality isn't that simple.

 

????