Brexit talks still stuck because EU is asking too much, UK says

[Hi from France]

26 minutes ago, RayC said:

Well, your statement is a truism given that the UK is no longer a member of the EU.

 

However it's a rather large assumption that the UK would have vetoed the plan had it been in a position to do so.

You really think the UK would have agreed to a EU emission of bonds? To take responsibility for a common debt? 

 

Ironically, given the terrible impact of Covid-19 on its economy, no doubt the UK would be one of the first beneficiaries.

 

Now even benefiting of +-100 billions of European solidarity funds (our Coronavirus Response Investment Initiative), the Brits would have vetoed (and blocked the rescue package for all of us in the meantime... ) . 

 

British exceptionalism is very very strong, we have 40 years of experience. Joining the € was unthinkable, so would be the sharing of a sovereign debt. 

 

. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Hi from France

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, transam said:

Well you would say that, but the fact is more folk took the trouble to vote leave than remain, that is fact, now if you cannot understand that fact then you need to sit back and take stock.

But, you won't because you really have, to use a Thai phrase, lost face..... ????

What you and many like you refuse to accept is that many that voted to leave now regret that decision.

Only the delusional would believe that the 17 million that voted to leave are quite happy with the way things have turned out. The only winners are those with a vested interest and that would probably exclude over 16 million of those that voted leave.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

What you and many like you refuse to accept is that many that voted to leave now regret that decision.

Only the delusional would believe that the 17 million that voted to leave are quite happy with the way things have turned out. The only winners are those with a vested interest and that would probably exclude over 16 million of those that voted leave.

You have no idea what the populace are thinking regarding changing their mind about Brexit, but I would assume they are fed up with those across the channel trying to stiff the UK, now just the French with the spanner in the works, but folk like you will back the other side, you want the UK to bend over to cuddle up to the EU, such blatant cowardice, or just turn coats, take your pick...........????

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Victornoir said:

 

The question of reintegration into the EU is inappropriate mainly because the majority of the English do not want it.

And we Europeans do not want a member solely interested in economic advantages and slowing down any development of our group.

The possible reintegration can only be done by the nations of the former UK which have become formally independent and wish to move forward with the others. We think Scotland, of course, but also a reunified Ireland.

Quite, the referendum bill meant brexit was always going to be an English decision.

No other country in the world holds a referendum across states without taking states into account, but then there is democracy and English democracy.

[CorpusChristie]

12 minutes ago, sandyf said:

What you and many like you refuse to accept is that many that voted to leave now regret that decision.

Only the delusional would believe that the 17 million that voted to leave are quite happy with the way things have turned out. The only winners are those with a vested interest and that would probably exclude over 16 million of those that voted leave.

 

  The recent General Election ............is all I can be bothered to say

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, RayC said:

This is not a logical conclusion. The UK voted to leave the EU as one entity, so why could it not vote to rejoin as one entity?

Therein lies the fundamental problem, is the UK a single entity or not?

Arguments both ways, but the rhetoric from Westminster indicates it is only a single entity when it suits.

In the run up to the Scottish referendum, David Cameron promised Scotland a voice at the EU table, should that now be forgotten.

Maybe time for the single entities to be identified once and for all.

[sandyf]

12 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  The recent General Election ............is all I can be bothered to say

And that was so successful:  a year later and 53 MP's voting against their own leadership.

Do you really think there would be the same result today.

[micmichd]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Therein lies the fundamental problem, is the UK a single entity or not?

Arguments both ways, but the rhetoric from Westminster indicates it is only a single entity when it suits.

In the run up to the Scottish referendum, David Cameron promised Scotland a voice at the EU table, should that now be forgotten.

Maybe time for the single entities to be identified once and for all.

David Cameron can say what he wants, but the majority of Brits clearly said "leave the EU" 

It's typical EU style to play tricks with the electorate if they don't like their votes. 

This game is over, starting from January 1, 2021, UK will not be part of the EU anymore. 

[Neeranam]

On 12/1/2020 at 5:17 PM, snoop1130 said:

Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and a senior ally of Prime Minister Boris Johnson

What on Earth does this title mean?

[sandyf]

2 minutes ago, micmichd said:

David Cameron can say what he wants, but the majority of Brits clearly said "leave the EU" 

It's typical EU style to play tricks with the electorate if they don't like their votes. 

This game is over, starting from January 1, 2021, UK will not be part of the EU anymore. 

You have gone out of context, my comment had nothing to do with what "Brits said".

The implication of DC's promise was that Scotland was to be treated as an entity in their own right, which would bring into question how single is the UK as an entity.

If you question the right of DC as PM to say such a thing, then that same question mark must fall on the right of Bojo to block another referendum.

 

[IvorBiggun2]

7 minutes ago, micmichd said:

This game is over, starting from January 1, 2021, UK will not be part of the EU anymore. 

Hooray but I doubt it'll be the end of those bitching Remainders who do not understand democracy. I'm sure as hell I don't remember the 'NO' voters bitching when they lost the referendum to join the EEC. 

[vinny41]

26 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Therein lies the fundamental problem, is the UK a single entity or not?

Arguments both ways, but the rhetoric from Westminster indicates it is only a single entity when it suits.

In the run up to the Scottish referendum, David Cameron promised Scotland a voice at the EU table, should that now be forgotten.

Maybe time for the single entities to be identified once and for all.

Link please regarding David Cameron promised Scotland a voice at the EU table

[vinny41]

42 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Quite, the referendum bill meant brexit was always going to be an English decision.

No other country in the world holds a referendum across states without taking states into account, but then there is democracy and English democracy.

The Uk is leaving the EU is due to the Scotish and Northern Ireland voters that voted leave, without those votes the UK would still be in the EU

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Therein lies the fundamental problem, is the UK a single entity or not?

Arguments both ways, but the rhetoric from Westminster indicates it is only a single entity when it suits.

In the run up to the Scottish referendum, David Cameron promised Scotland a voice at the EU table, should that now be forgotten.

Maybe time for the single entities to be identified once and for all.

Wishful thinking by the SNP

Cameron rejects giving Scotland veto in EU referendum

“We are one United Kingdom. There will be one in/out referendum (for the EU) and that will be decided on a majority of those who vote. That is how the rules should work,” Cameron told the Westminster-based UK parliament in response to Sturgeon’s proposal.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/cameron-rejects-giving-scotland-veto-in-eu-referendum/

[nauseus]

56 minutes ago, sandyf said:

And that was so successful:  a year later and 53 MP's voting against their own leadership.

Do you really think there would be the same result today.

 

A very different vote which confuses the point. 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Wishful thinking by the SNP

Cameron rejects giving Scotland veto in EU referendum

“We are one United Kingdom. There will be one in/out referendum (for the EU) and that will be decided on a majority of those who vote. That is how the rules should work,” Cameron told the Westminster-based UK parliament in response to Sturgeon’s proposal.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/cameron-rejects-giving-scotland-veto-in-eu-referendum/

DC got what he wanted in 2014 when he was already plotting to stab Scotland in the back.

As for the rules, he made them up on a whim, and certainly on in line with any other democratic country.

As I said, there is democracy and the English version of it.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

A very different vote which confuses the point. 

Irrelevant what kind of vote, it is about confidence in the party leadership and government.

Very little chance of the Tories getting the same majority in a GE today, they have proved beyond doubt not fit for purpose.

[Phulublub]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The Uk is leaving the EU is due to the Scotish and Northern Ireland voters that voted leave, without those votes the UK would still be in the EU

So it is Scottish and Irish Leave votrs who are to blame.  Who would have thought?  Should please the Little Englanders who can transfer their ill founded ire and hate for the EU to another group of "others".  Not their fault, obviously.

 

I am a little confused though that if we were to discount the Scottish and Irish Leave voters, we should still count the Scottish and Irish Remain voters - who were rather larger in number.

 

PH

 

 

[vinny41]

18 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

So it is Scottish and Irish Leave votrs who are to blame.  Who would have thought?  Should please the Little Englanders who can transfer their ill founded ire and hate for the EU to another group of "others".  Not their fault, obviously.

 

I am a little confused though that if we were to discount the Scottish and Irish Leave voters, we should still count the Scottish and Irish Remain voters - who were rather larger in number.

 

PH

 

 

Who said they were to blame I merely pointed out that the leave majority was achieved through the combined Scottish  and Northern Ireland voters without their leave votes the UK would still be in the EU

for Scotland remain votes were 1,661,191 leave was 1,018,322 difference of 642,869

for Northern Ireland remain votes were 440,707 and leave was 349,422 difference of 91,265

If it is your opinion that the  Scottish and Irish Remain voters - who were rather larger in number. it can be stated that the  Scottish and Irish Leave voters - were also  rather large in number

[GrandPapillon]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The Uk is leaving the EU is due to the Scotish and Northern Ireland voters that voted leave, without those votes the UK would still be in the EU

the irony, those 2 with their actions are going to break up the United Kingdom ????

[Phulublub]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Who said they were to blame I merely pointed out that the leave majority was achieved through the combined Scottish  and Northern Ireland voters without their leave votes the UK would still be in the EU

for Scotland remain votes were 1,661,191 leave was 1,018,322 difference of 642,869

for Northern Ireland remain votes were 440,707 and leave was 349,422 difference of 91,265

If it is your opinion that the  Scottish and Irish Remain voters - who were rather larger in number. it can be stated that the  Scottish and Irish Leave voters - were also  rather large in number

If the voters of Yorkshire and Lancashire who kick a ball with their left foot on Tuesdays were discounted we might have a different result too.  Do you actually have any point at all with your post?

 

PH

[7by7]

11 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Hooray but I doubt it'll be the end of those bitching Remainders who do not understand democracy. I'm sure as hell I don't remember the 'NO' voters bitching when they lost the referendum to join the EEC. 

 Really?

 

Your co Brexiteer Vinny41 does!

On 12/5/2020 at 12:18 PM, vinny41 said:

In 1980 Labour were planning to take for the UK to quit the EU without a referendum just give the EU notice

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/06/from-the-archive-labour-group-seeks-pledge-to-quit-eec-june-1980

 

 As his link shows, it was not very long after it that Leavers expressed their belief that the result of the 1975 referendum was a mistake and started to campaign to reverse it!

 

[7by7]

11 hours ago, micmichd said:

It's typical EU style to play tricks with the electorate if they don't like their votes. 

 

What tricks are the EU playing on the UK electorate?

 

What tricks have they played on the electorates of other countries?

[pacovl46]

On 12/5/2020 at 1:18 PM, vinny41 said:

Quite often the losing side think the result was a mistake on a number of issues ranging from a referee awarding a disputed penalty that resulted in the losing side losing the match.

In 1980 Labour were planning to take for the UK to quit the EU without a referendum just give the EU notice

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/06/from-the-archive-labour-group-seeks-pledge-to-quit-eec-june-1980

 

1983: In their election manifesto, Labour, under leader Michael Foot, pledge to begin negotiations to withdraw from the EU "within the lifetime" of the following Parliament. Labour lose the election

It’s still a mistake and time will show.

[katana]

On 12/1/2020 at 10:17 AM, snoop1130 said:

Talks have snagged on fishing in Britain’s rich waters, on what EU rules London will accept and on how any dispute might be resolved.

Maybe the UK should reciprocate and ask for access to French vineyards.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

It’s still a mistake and time will show.

In your opinion others think differently

each to their own

[Meat Pie 47]

Get on with it

 

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, katana said:

Maybe the UK should reciprocate and ask for access to French vineyards.

Just like the U.K.  sold some of their fishing quota, are some French vineyards sold to Chinese.

Sure is the price is right the U.K. could/can buy some as well. 

 

[katana]

That worked out well, didn't it.
France seizes 10 Chinese-owned chateaux in Bordeaux on suspicion of tax fraud
Continued https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/29/france-seizes-10-chinese-owned-chateaux-bordeaux-suspicion-tax/

 

 

[luckyluke]

7 minutes ago, katana said:

That worked out well, didn't it.
France seizes 10 Chinese-owned chateaux in Bordeaux on suspicion of tax fraud
Continued https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/29/france-seizes-10-chinese-owned-chateaux-bordeaux-suspicion-tax/

 

 

Indeed, same same with the fishing quota sold by the U.K., doesn’t work well apparently.