Return to the UK

[allanos]

About five years ago, I made a half-hearted attempt to return to the UK, and applied to DWP to be recognised as an Habitual Resident, in order to avail of the maximum benefit.  I had to furnish a wealth of documentation, including my passport, but also was interviewed at the place where I was living by an "inspector", where I had to answer a number of questions by the official. Although I was granted Habitual Residency thereafter, subsequently my movements were checked to see whether I was still in the United Kingdom or had left and continued to be paid (erroneously) full benefit.

 

In the event, I didn't remain in the United Kingdom for long and my pension has been reduced accordingly.

[Seeall]

On 12/7/2020 at 11:58 AM, DaLa said:

Just go to your old GP and tell them you haven't been ill for 25 years.....they should be grateful.

 

HA ha, more so the goverments, I not been back in 10 years and my  health card expired, the lady congratulated me in not claiming anything.... discusting attitude...

[Andrew65]

1 minute ago, Seeall said:

 

HA ha, more so the goverments, I not been back in 10 years and my  health card expired, the lady congratulated me in not claiming anything.... discusting attitude...

I hadn't been to my UK Dr for 13 years when I returned, signed up at a different surgery in a different town, no problem. (Never mentioned that I'd be living overseas). Was then able to get my prescriptions for about £10 a month.

[Seeall]

19 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

I hadn't been to my UK Dr for 13 years when I returned, signed up at a different surgery in a different town, no problem. (Never mentioned that I'd be living overseas). Was then able to get my prescriptions for about £10 a month.

Yes, best to keep the mouth shut and let them presume sometimes......

[natway09]

I feel for you & good luck.

Cannot comment on the UK but NZ you are pretty much on your own for 2 years,

After that all entitlements start again

[Brian Hudson]

If you are in reasonable Good health then the 6 months should not be a problem for you by the time you come home and sorted out a GP and registered at a dental clinic the 6 months will fly by if you don’t have an income (pensions) I’m sure you can claim benefits should you need to good luck and welcome home 

[KannikaP]

On 12/7/2020 at 12:26 PM, hobobo said:

but due to coronavirus their sites are unbelievably complicated

No, it is due to them being the British Government's websites.   LOL

[Jimbo53]

On 12/7/2020 at 4:58 AM, Surelynot said:

Too lazy to provide links beyond.      https://www.gov.uk/guidance/returning-to-the-uk..but I think the best place to start is .gov.uk......I do know, if people dig into your history you might have to "prove" you are returning permanently.....have you sold your house abroad, have you shipped all you domestic effects back to the UK...have you purchased property in the UK.....where are you now going to live etc.

You will be required by the DWP to complete a Habitual Residence Test (HRT),even though you are British born, a British Citizen,and holding a British Passport,you will find it difficult to get State housing unless your a refugee,you will have to do a qualifying period for benefits,if not of pensionable age,if you have lived and worked in a country Ie Australia,NZ,Canada etc,which have/had Reciprocal Social Security Agreements,then that period counts towards your N.I. Contributions for the U.K.State Pension,which at present is ~ £175/week.

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Jimbo53 said:

if you have lived and worked in a country Ie Australia,NZ,Canada etc,which have/had Reciprocal Social Security Agreements,then that period counts towards your N.I. Contributions for the U.K.State Pension,which at present is ~ £175/week.

OP if you’ve not been keeping up with your NI payments via AVCs whilst living abroad consider topping up missed years before you go as depending on your circumstances you might be able to pay at Class2 (approx £155 per year) rather than class 3 (approx £850 pa).

Non-pensioners Can repay the past 6 tax years + current tax year, I believe pensioners can repay 10 years but there’s some limit as to how long you have before doing this.

 

 

[Tigger01]

On 12/7/2020 at 4:58 AM, DaLa said:

Just go to your old GP and tell them you haven't been ill for 25 years.....they should be grateful.

Just say you haven't been to see them cos you've been sick.... 

[foreverlomsak]

On 12/7/2020 at 11:58 AM, Surelynot said:

I think the best place to start is .gov.uk......I do know, if people dig into your history you might have to "prove" you are returning permanently.....have you sold your house abroad, have you shipped all you domestic effects back to the UK...have you purchased property in the UK.....where are you now going to live etc.

I concur with this as it agrees with my research into the subject. NHS will provide emergency treatment immediately (that you may be asked to pay for eventually) but run of the mill treatment e.g. doctor referrals may be problematic for 6 months after getting GP allocation. Also depending on age you may have problems with "social security benefits", State pension will be reset within weeks to your financial entitlement as if you have never been away (retrospective increases no chance they just reset to your current entitlement).

[foreverlomsak]

8 hours ago, allanos said:

In the event, I didn't remain in the United Kingdom for long and my pension has been reduced accordingly.

If I read the rules correctly and you spent more that 180 days in the UK that should not have happened.

[foreverlomsak]

4 hours ago, Jimbo53 said:

U.K.State Pension,which at present is ~ £175/week.

Assuming you have a minimum of 35 years NI contributions (full stamp), and you were not in a company scheme where you were contracted out of the Additional State Pension.

I'm 63 (need to wait until 66) with 32 years contributions - reduced from 175 to 175 * 32 / 35 = 160 pw

In company final salary scheme reduced by a further 26 pw to 134 (almost the same as the old scheme where I was entitled to max as the requirement was for 30 years contributions)

[Jenkins9039]

On 12/7/2020 at 11:29 AM, hobobo said:

After almost 35 years of living overseas I am forced by circumstances to return to the UK. Some 10 years ago I changed my resident status for the UK authorities to "Resident in Thailand" (I think the official blurb on the form called me a "UK citizen, not ordinarily resident for tax purposes" or some such grand title). I am told that for the first six months after return I will have no rights generally available to UK nationals, especially as far as the NHS treatment, certain welfare rights or state pension are concerned. Is this correct information. I would be most grateful for any relevant information, or the link to appropriate websites. Thank you.

Interesting you did a form, i never bothered and am not recognised as a resident, nor Dom status these days, and that has occurred over time (12 or so years).

[hobobo]

14 hours ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Interesting you did a form, i never bothered and am not recognised as a resident, nor Dom status these days, and that has occurred over time (12 or so years).

Thanks Jenkins9039. It was a series of minor but most annoying factors which led me to that stupid decision of mine. My UK bank had always refused to send my credit & debit cards abroad, but for years my relatives or friends would collect the cards and send them on.  But at one point there was a very long period when there was nobody I knew and trusted. The bank suggested that if I changed my address officially they could send the cards to me directly to Thailand, all I needed to do was to sign this "resident form". By law the banks have to inform Inland Revenue and a myriad of other departments, amongst them the good old NHS, and before I am entitled to all usual services/benefits, I have to sign a new document to confirm that I am returning permanently and re-instating my Resident status. As I said, one quick move without thinking of possible consequences resulted in years of unnecessary worries.

[Jimbo53]

But the shortfall from £16/pw would be made up by Pension Credit to the present State Pension of £175.20

[Jimbo53]

Just now, Jimbo53 said:

But the shortfall from £16/pw would be made up by Pension Credit to the present State Pension of £175.20

160

[Jimbo53]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:08 PM, Mike Teavee said:

OP if you’ve not been keeping up with your NI payments via AVCs whilst living abroad consider topping up missed years before you go as depending on your circumstances you might be able to pay at Class2 (approx £155 per year) rather than class 3 (approx £850 pa).

Non-pensioners Can repay the past 6 tax years + current tax year, I believe pensioners can repay 10 years but there’s some limit as to how long you have before doing this.

 

 

Forget about making up contributions,you will still be paid the current State Pension of £175.20.

Been/Am here...Done it.

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Jimbo53 said:

Forget about making up contributions,you will still be paid the current State Pension of £175.20.

Been/Am here...Done it.

Only if you have the full 35 years of NI contributions... 

• < 10 years = No Pension... 
• 10 years - 34 years = 1/35 * £175 for every year (e.g. if you had 30 years you would get 30/35 * £175 = £150)
• > 34 years you get the maximum (as you say £175) 

Easy enough to check your pension forecast on the gov site https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension 

 

Edit: For the avoidance of doubt I'm talking about people who are yet to receive their pension or have retired since April 2015, the threshold for receiving the maximum pension used to be 30 years but is now 35 years

 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Jimbo53 said:

But the shortfall from £16/pw would be made up by Pension Credit to the present State Pension of £175.20

Can you get Pension Credit if you're non-UK resident (For Tax Purposes)?

 

I know that not everybody tells the Govt they've moved overseas & so are still treated as being UK Resident (For Tax Purposes) so still receive the annual Pension increases, but the OP (like myself) has benefits in being Non-UK Resident (For Tax Purposes) that far outweigh these.

 

Also, I personally wouldn't plan my retirement on the fact that the Govt is incapable of identifying who is/isn't resident (for Tax Purposes), especially if UK Citizens in the EU lose their access to Pension Credits / Annual pension increases.

[Surelynot]

On 12/9/2020 at 2:39 PM, foreverlomsak said:

Assuming you have a minimum of 35 years NI contributions (full stamp), and you were not in a company scheme where you were contracted out of the Additional State Pension.

I'm 63 (need to wait until 66) with 32 years contributions - reduced from 175 to 175 * 32 / 35 = 160 pw

In company final salary scheme reduced by a further 26 pw to 134 (almost the same as the old scheme where I was entitled to max as the requirement was for 30 years contributions)

...and if you are a civil servant (servant of the crown) the government very kindly opted all of them out of the higher state pension....telling them they would be better off????

[foreverlomsak]

33 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

...and if you are a civil servant (servant of the crown) the government very kindly opted all of them out of the higher state pension....telling them they would be better off????

Assume you mean the additional state pension contributions, (which provides an increase to the standard pension) the civil service pension is the equivalent to a company pension scheme, and is paid over and above the state pension, both being combined before tax is levied (irrespective of whether you live in the UK or not) as all monies originating in the UK is subject to UK tax (the civil service pension is entitled to tax relief in the UK if tax is paid in Thailand not so any company scheme).

Clear as mud isn't it.

 

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

the civil service pension is entitled to tax relief in the UK if tax is paid in Thailand not so any company scheme).

Can I ask....how does that work? I can choose to pay the tax in Thailand on my civil service pension? I assume the advantage is it is at a lower rate? Thanks in advance for any help/links.

[foreverlomsak]

16 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Can I ask....how does that work? I can choose to pay the tax in Thailand on my civil service pension? I assume the advantage is it is at a lower rate? Thanks in advance for any help/links.

No, it's not an either or situation, it used to be under the old double taxation agreement (circa 2004/2005) but it changed.

Tax needs to paid as normal in the UK on all your income, if you bring it here in the same Thai Tax year (Jan-Dec) as you "earn" it, and you are registered for Thai Tax and you declare it's arrival it could be subject to Thai Tax. If for example you bring in any pensions paid in 2021 into Thailand during 2022 no tax is liable. At the current time it is unlikely that Thailand will impose tax on your monthly incomes in the earning year, but TIT and things change.

Thailand has various allowances that are deducted before tax is calculated. Any tax paid in Thailand on Government pensions (not company pensions) could warrant a tax rebate from UK HMRC.

To research it use Google to search on UK Double Taxation Agreements and Thailand Tax (make sure the site is gov.th  and it is available in English).

[Surelynot]

11 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

and you are registered for Thai Tax and you declare it's arrival

Just a quick clarification....moving funds in lump sums from my UK account (where tax has already been paid) to Thailand.....are those lump sums liable to tax in Thailand in anyway?

[Jimbo53]

5 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Can you get Pension Credit if you're non-UK resident (For Tax Purposes)?

 

I know that not everybody tells the Govt they've moved overseas & so are still treated as being UK Resident (For Tax Purposes) so still receive the annual Pension increases, but the OP (like myself) has benefits in being Non-UK Resident (For Tax Purposes) that far outweigh these.

 

Also, I personally wouldn't plan my retirement on the fact that the Govt is incapable of identifying who is/isn't resident (for Tax Purposes), especially if UK Citizens in the EU lose their access to Pension Credits / Annual pension increases.

You cant get Pension Credit whilst in Thailand.

[Jimbo53]

3 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Just a quick clarification....moving funds in lump sums from my UK account (where tax has already been paid) to Thailand.....are those lump sums liable to tax in Thailand in anyway?

Why would you register for Thai tax,if your not earning here? Any funds brought in from another would not be liable for Thai taxation.

[polpott]

5 minutes ago, Jimbo53 said:

You cant get Pension Credit whilst in Thailand.

I've just received my winter fuel allowance (£200) and Christmas bonus (£10). Haven't been back to the UK for a couple of years.

[Jimbo53]

5 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Can you get Pension Credit if you're non-UK resident (For Tax Purposes)?

 

I know that not everybody tells the Govt they've moved overseas & so are still treated as being UK Resident (For Tax Purposes) so still receive the annual Pension increases, but the OP (like myself) has benefits in being Non-UK Resident (For Tax Purposes) that far outweigh these.

 

Also, I personally wouldn't plan my retirement on the fact that the Govt is incapable of identifying who is/isn't resident (for Tax Purposes), especially if UK Citizens in the EU lose their access to Pension Credits / Annual pension increases.

I am in the UK,returned and retired from Thailand in 2017,all up,between working in the UK and Oz until the end of their reciprocal Social Security Agreement in March 2001,i had  32yrs contributions,my mate in Pattaya paid £1000's,to make up contributions and  gets a fraction of the full pensiion,and is not a happy camper,after wasting his money,so i never paid up, my  full pension falls short by £22,which is then made up by Pension Credits to the full pension.This may be of some help to some people in the thro's of returning to the UK.

[Jimbo53]

11 minutes ago, polpott said:

I've just received my winter fuel allowance (£200) and Christmas bonus (£10). Haven't been back to the UK for a couple of years.

Nothing to do with Pension Credits in Thailand.

If you have registered as living abroad,then you shouldn't receive that payment,or you are getting it fraudulently,even if you still have a residence in the UK,and dont reside there.