Chinese, Hong Kongers, Germans drive "Elite Card" residence for real estate purchase scheme

[newnative]

23 minutes ago, jackdd said:

How many condos valued at 10 million plus have you owned?

At the average condo where i'm staying the maintenance fee is 50THB/sqm/month. If it's a somehow luxuries condo 80THB/sqm/month wouldn't surprise me, and if you got a 100sqm unit then this would mean 8k per month. To me his estimation sounds quite realistic.

        I think around 50 to 60 baht a sqm is pretty common even for projects in the luxury category.  In Pattaya, a couple examples.  Northpoint is, I believe, 60 baht.  Baan Plai Haad, 45 baht unless it's gone up.   Hipflat has a 70sqm 1 bedroom at Northpoint for 11.5MB.   At 60 baht a sqm, that's 4200 a month for maintenance.  Not 8000.  A  68sqm 2 bedroom at Baan Plai Haad is 10MB on Hipflat.  At 45 baht a sqm, that's 3060 baht a month.  Not 8000.

       In Bangkok, another example.  Q Asoke condo, next to the Phetchaburi MRT station, is considered in the luxury category.  Average price per sqm is 195,000 baht.  The condo fee is 60 baht a sqm.  Hipflat has several 45 sqm 1 bedrooms for sale for 10MB.  That works out to 2700 baht a month.  Not 8000.

       The trend with new condos, both here in Pattaya and in Bangkok, is smaller condos in projects with many amenities.  Gone are the days of just a gym and a pool.   Some new Bangkok condo projects come with boxing rings and private massage/spa rooms, in addition to luxurious lobbies, sky lounges, multiple pools, golf simulators, jogging tracks, outdoor theaters, 'co-living' spaces,  and other amenities too numerous to list. 

      The other week my partner and I toured a new luxury Bangkok project. Tons of amenities.  Most of the units were 1 bedroom units of around 35 sqm and cost around 7MB.  The largest unit size was 61 sqm.  Contrast that with my older condo project, where the smallest condo size is 64 sqm.  If your luxury condo is only 50 sqm, and many new ones are smaller, even at 100 baht a sqm you would only be paying 5000 a month, not 8000. 

    It's debatable whether something only 70 sqm or less could be considered luxurious but that's what 10MB gets you in some luxury projects in good locations.  There certainly are, as you say, some projects where the condo fees can run 8000 baht a month but I think in the 10MB price range most monthly maintenance fees are less for many projects.  

       

[Truth Will Set You Free]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

       A couple of clarifications to your post.   I'll be the first to say that condo ownership isn't for everyone--here or anywhere.  If you're more comfortable renting, then by all means rent.  However, some of your statements regarding condo ownership here I feel are not accurate and do not square with my experience.  Perhaps you should, as you say, 'do your homework' yourself before making your blanket, one-size-fits-all statements.  

      Twice you state that condo projects here will be run down 'due to no maintenance'; your second statement indicates that by 5 years they will look like (deleted).  Then, you state, 'money down the drain', with the implication that any condo purchased in Thailand will be a money-loser, due to no maintenance. 

      I've owned 18 condos all over Pattaya, as well as several Bangkok condos.  I've never lost money on any of them.  Almost all of the projects I have owned at are at least 5 years old now and all are still in good condition.  The last Pattaya condo I owned before my current one was over 30 years old and the project was being nicely maintained.  My current condo is in a project about 14 years old and it is also in great shape.   Of course, some condo projects can have maintenance issues, and not just here, but you leave the misleading impression that poor maintenance is always the case.  It isn't in my experience.  

     You ask, what do you get for 10MB?  No one answer; too many answers from too many variables.   The main takeaway, though, is what you don't say.  You don't have to spend 10MB on a condo to live in Thailand.  You don't have to buy a condo at all--there are plenty of people here happily renting.    Although I always like owning rather than renting, I don't see myself ever spending 10MB for a condo, even if it came with a fancy visa, and I don't think I would ever need to in order to get what I wanted in a condo here.  The great thing, for me, is the wide variety of condo choices here in all price points--much more than I had where I lived in the US.  Also great for renters.

     With the 20 different condos I have owned in Pattaya and Bangkok, both large and small, I have never paid your touted 8000 baht a month for maintenance so I think that statement of yours is also misleading. The first condo I bought in Pattaya in 2010 was at View Talay 3 and the YEARLY maintenance fee was 6000 baht.   I think it's double that or more now but still a bargain.  The most I have ever paid was 7,700 baht a month for a large 3 bedroom/3 bath unit.  Included in that maintenance fee was weekly maid service, cable tv, internet, and hot water at all the taps so not a bad deal, in my opinion.   I was paying about the same monthly fee 11 years ago for a small 1 bedroom condo in America and it certainly did not come with maid service.  If you take an average size condo of say 60 sqm and perhaps a slightly higher than average condo fee of 50 baht a sqm/month you get 3000 baht, half of your 6000 baht.  Some much larger condos might run you 6000 to 8000 baht a month in maintenance fees but to say that's the going rate for all condos is not correct.  

Wow, name some that you own and I’ll do my exterior inspection and get back with you. But my experience as an certified facility inspector, I don’t mislead people to invest in property of Thailand. 
 

it’s great that you own so many, but are you getting the max for your rentals? I don’t think so, but that not the point here. I will say this, photos do not lie, just post some and not the photo you took when it was new. Current photos. 
 

As for the maintenance fee, I clearly place a (-) between the number meaning minimum to max. So let say this way, the older they are they less and the newer they are the more you pay. Bottomline, the size don’t make a different because if all is paying, then they would be looking like a place anyone would want to live or invest in. 
 

Question, what is the life expectancy of a building?  What type of interior and exterior paint is on your Condo’s? I have a check list embedded in my head that when I am walking , I see lot issues the the Condo’s here. 
 

So in closing, if someone can afford to rent what you have base on the conditions, be happy. I just tell the viewer the truth and let them see for themself. 
 

That’s all I got to say and in that order..........

[A512]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

       A couple of clarifications to your post.   I'll be the first to say that condo ownership isn't for everyone--here or anywhere.  If you're more comfortable renting, then by all means rent.  However, some of your statements regarding condo ownership here I feel are not accurate and do not square with my experience.  Perhaps you should, as you say, 'do your homework' yourself before making your blanket, one-size-fits-all statements.  

      Twice you state that condo projects here will be run down 'due to no maintenance'; your second statement indicates that by 5 years they will look like (deleted).  Then, you state, 'money down the drain', with the implication that any condo purchased in Thailand will be a money-loser, due to no maintenance. 

      I've owned 18 condos all over Pattaya, as well as several Bangkok condos.  I've never lost money on any of them.  Almost all of the projects I have owned at are at least 5 years old now and all are still in good condition.  The last Pattaya condo I owned before my current one was over 30 years old and the project was being nicely maintained.  My current condo is in a project about 14 years old and it is also in great shape.   Of course, some condo projects can have maintenance issues, and not just here, but you leave the misleading impression that poor maintenance is always the case.  It isn't in my experience.  

     You ask, what do you get for 10MB?  No one answer; too many answers from too many variables.   The main takeaway, though, is what you don't say.  You don't have to spend 10MB on a condo to live in Thailand.  You don't have to buy a condo at all--there are plenty of people here happily renting.    Although I always like owning rather than renting, I don't see myself ever spending 10MB for a condo, even if it came with a fancy visa, and I don't think I would ever need to in order to get what I wanted in a condo here.  The great thing, for me, is the wide variety of condo choices here in all price points--much more than I had where I lived in the US.  Also great for renters.

     With the 20 different condos I have owned in Pattaya and Bangkok, both large and small, I have never paid your touted 8000 baht a month for maintenance so I think that statement of yours is also misleading. The first condo I bought in Pattaya in 2010 was at View Talay 3 and the YEARLY maintenance fee was 6000 baht.   I think it's double that or more now but still a bargain.  The most I have ever paid was 7,700 baht a month for a large 3 bedroom/3 bath unit.  Included in that maintenance fee was weekly maid service, cable tv, internet, and hot water at all the taps so not a bad deal, in my opinion.   I was paying about the same monthly fee 11 years ago for a small 1 bedroom condo in America and it certainly did not come with maid service.  If you take an average size condo of say 60 sqm and perhaps a slightly higher than average condo fee of 50 baht a sqm/month you get 3000 baht, half of your 6000 baht.  Some much larger condos might run you 6000 to 8000 baht a month in maintenance fees but to say that's the going rate for all condos is not correct.  

i used to have one 60 sq. meter in Phuket, sold it, worst investment ever, would be better to invest in a frog farm in isam. i was paying 12k /mo rented 2 times only, both times got screwed and management responsible for the rental never paid me for my losses and worse than that, allowed the tenant to leave without paying, even their ID card they were not able to provide. bunch of crooks we are dealing here. My money is not here and will never be. period.

[newnative]

7 hours ago, Truth Will Set You Free said:

Wow, name some that you own and I’ll do my exterior inspection and get back with you. But my experience as an certified facility inspector, I don’t mislead people to invest in property of Thailand. 
 

it’s great that you own so many, but are you getting the max for your rentals? I don’t think so, but that not the point here. I will say this, photos do not lie, just post some and not the photo you took when it was new. Current photos. 
 

As for the maintenance fee, I clearly place a (-) between the number meaning minimum to max. So let say this way, the older they are they less and the newer they are the more you pay. Bottomline, the size don’t make a different because if all is paying, then they would be looking like a place anyone would want to live or invest in. 
 

Question, what is the life expectancy of a building?  What type of interior and exterior paint is on your Condo’s? I have a check list embedded in my head that when I am walking , I see lot issues the the Condo’s here. 
 

So in closing, if someone can afford to rent what you have base on the conditions, be happy. I just tell the viewer the truth and let them see for themself. 
 

That’s all I got to say and in that order..........

        I don't own 20 condos that I rent out.  What I stated in my post is that I have owned 20 condos in various projects in Pattaya and Bangkok and I was able to sell all of them at a profit.  It wasn't 'money down the drain', using the term of the poster I responded to.

       The post I responded to made two inaccurate points.  First, that there is no maintenance done in Thailand with condo projects and after 5 years condo projects look like excrement and the money you spend to buy a condo goes down the drain.   Second, if you spend 10MB for a condo, you will also be saddled with a 6000 to 8000 baht a month condo fee.  In my experience, neither is the case. 

       You, as an inspector, will likely be able to find some issues with any condo project you inspect, whether here or somewhere else.  I can point out things myself at the 2 condos I own.  My Bangkok condo's pool has a few missing tiles after 7 years of use that need to be replaced.  The elevator interiors were showing wear but they were just re-done.  It's time for the building to be painted and that's on the schedule.  The lobby chairs were just recovered and the concierge desk refinished.  The monthly newsletter usually has a list of mechanical maintenance stuff they are doing--pipes, electrical, sometimes elevator stuff, and so on.  In Pattaya, my condo's pool decking was just replaced and some work done on the gym locker rooms, along with the usual routine maintenance.  Parking entrance/exit gate system was re-done.   Neither project is perfect but neither is it true that no maintenance is being done.   No condo project I have owned at has looked like excrement after 5 years.  

       I think in some cases what you say regarding older condos having a smaller monthly price per square meter condo fee than newer ones is true.  But, I also think it's true that newer condos tend to be smaller so even though their price per square meter maintenance fee is higher, in many cases it doesn't make the monthly maintenance fee appreciably higher.   An older 100 sqm condo with a 30 baht a sqm condo fee is going to have a monthly condo fee of 3000 baht.  A new, smaller 50 sqm condo with a 60 baht a month condo fee is going to have that same 3000 baht a month fee.  In most cases, with old and new, I don't think the fees will be 6000-8000 baht. Always some exceptions, of course.  

      I stated in my post that owning isn't for everyone.  I'm here for the long haul and I like to own my space wherever I am, to do with it whatever I want.   If someone has your same concerns, by all means rent.  There are lots of choices in all price points here and in Bangkok--which is great for renters and those who prefer to own.  

      

[Truth Will Set You Free]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

        I don't own 20 condos that I rent out.  What I stated in my post is that I have owned 20 condos in various projects in Pattaya and Bangkok and I was able to sell all of them at a profit.  It wasn't 'money down the drain', using the term of the poster I responded to.

       The post I responded to made two inaccurate points.  First, that there is no maintenance done in Thailand with condo projects and after 5 years condo projects look like excrement and the money you spend to buy a condo goes down the drain.   Second, if you spend 10MB for a condo, you will also be saddled with a 6000 to 8000 baht a month condo fee.  In my experience, neither is the case. 

       You, as an inspector, will likely be able to find some issues with any condo project you inspect, whether here or somewhere else.  I can point out things myself at the 2 condos I own.  My Bangkok condo's pool has a few missing tiles after 7 years of use that need to be replaced.  The elevator interiors were showing wear but they were just re-done.  It's time for the building to be painted and that's on the schedule.  The lobby chairs were just recovered and the concierge desk refinished.  The monthly newsletter usually has a list of mechanical maintenance stuff they are doing--pipes, electrical, sometimes elevator stuff, and so on.  In Pattaya, my condo's pool decking was just replaced and some work done on the gym locker rooms, along with the usual routine maintenance.  Parking entrance/exit gate system was re-done.   Neither project is perfect but neither is it true that no maintenance is being done.   No condo project I have owned at has looked like excrement after 5 years.  

       I think in some cases what you say regarding older condos having a smaller monthly price per square meter condo fee than newer ones is true.  But, I also think it's true that newer condos tend to be smaller so even though their price per square meter maintenance fee is higher, in many cases it doesn't make the monthly maintenance fee appreciably higher.   An older 100 sqm condo with a 30 baht a sqm condo fee is going to have a monthly condo fee of 3000 baht.  A new, smaller 50 sqm condo with a 60 baht a month condo fee is going to have that same 3000 baht a month fee.  In most cases, with old and new, I don't think the fees will be 6000-8000 baht. Always some exceptions, of course.  

      I stated in my post that owning isn't for everyone.  I'm here for the long haul and I like to own my space wherever I am, to do with it whatever I want.   If someone has your same concerns, by all means rent.  There are lots of choices in all price points here and in Bangkok--which is great for renters and those who prefer to own.  

      

So what the point you trying to make? Are you not saying the same thing. Investing is not renting which is two different things. Buying and selling is an investment that you take a chance on. Back then, yeah that was good thing, but now do you know how many are stuck with that purchase? 
 

Let me add on Mr Salesman, if you trying to sell one now or in the past and you have not paid that monthly maintenance fee, you can not sell it until that debt is cleared. So I guess you added that coverage in the sales price? Thanks for reminding me of this, I should have said that in my open statement. 
 

To close with you, this is something I would tell people, buy a house and put it in a business name. Then you have control. You still have to pay monthly maintenance fees but they are not as much as Condo’s.
 

They cover the trash pick up, keeping the streets clean, street lights, and security. When it come to the house, that your responsible if you want to keep it looking good or let it go down.
 

You will get more space for the same amount of money you are paying for a Condo. Plus you don’t have to worry about a thai wife or husband kicking you to the streets, if the house s in a business name. You can rent it out when you are not here and use that money to keep the house up and in years that would be the best investment choice you could have made with your life savings. 

So did I clear up this whole thing on investing for you? If you respond back, keep it simple, short and to the point, I don’t read long stories. Plus others will not either. 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Truth Will Set You Free

[anto]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:59 PM, overherebc said:

Thought there was a limit on how many units could be foreign owned.

eg 100 units in the block 40 only for sale to non Thai.

Its 49 out of a 100 can be foreign owned Condos .I dont think that will change.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Truth Will Set You Free said:

So what the point you trying to make? Are you not saying the same thing. Investing is not renting which is two different things. Buying and selling is an investment that you take a chance on. Back then, yeah that was good thing, but now do you know how many are stuck with that purchase? 
 

Let me add on Mr Salesman, if you trying to sell one now or in the past and you have not paid that monthly maintenance fee, you can not sell it until that debt is cleared. So I guess you added that coverage in the sales price? Thanks for reminding me of this, I should have said that in my open statement. 
 

To close with you, this is something I would tell people, buy a house and put it in a business name. Then you have control. You still have to pay monthly maintenance fees but they are not as much as Condo’s.
 

They cover the trash pick up, keeping the streets clean, street lights, and security. When it come to the house, that your responsible if you want to keep it looking good or let it go down.
 

You will get more space for the same amount of money you are paying for a Condo. Plus you don’t have to worry about a thai wife or husband kicking you to the streets, if the house s in a business name. You can rent it out when you are not here and use that money to keep the house up and in years that would be the best investment choice you could have made with your life savings. 

So did I clear up this whole thing on investing for you? If you respond back, keep it simple, short and to the point, I don’t read long stories. Plus others will not either. 

 

         I responded to two statements that I disagreed with by the poster, neither of which was about investing but were about the lack of condo maintenance and monthly condo fees.  I stated that most condo projects are being maintained and do not look like excrement after 5 years.  I stated most condo owners here are not paying 8000 baht a month in maintenance charges, even for condos in the 10MB range.   Several examples were given for Pattaya and Bangkok.  If high condo fees are a concern, there are lots of choices with reasonable fees.    Buying a condo in foreign name will protect you just as much, or more, as buying a house in company name.  

[A512]

8 hours ago, newnative said:

         I responded to two statements that I disagreed with by the poster, neither of which was about investing but were about the lack of condo maintenance and monthly condo fees.  I stated that most condo projects are being maintained and do not look like excrement after 5 years.  I stated most condo owners here are not paying 8000 baht a month in maintenance charges, even for condos in the 10MB range.   Several examples were given for Pattaya and Bangkok.  If high condo fees are a concern, there are lots of choices with reasonable fees.    Buying a condo in foreign name will protect you just as much, or more, as buying a house in company name.  

what a load..

thai condo investment is a trap that I fell. don't fall for it!

i understand that many buyers are laundering their dirty here, it's a scheme, watch out.