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Explainer: Can anything stop Trump from pardoning his family or even himself?

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Walker88
Walker88

Here's a 'reduction to the ridiculous' to show why the courts will rule that a President cannot pardon himself...   If a POTUS could pardon himself, President Joe Biden could execute 45 and

sirineou
sirineou

He already pardoned his daughter's father in law.  BS , how does  a president pardoning his cronies serve the public good?  Don' t anyone see the problem with presidential pardons? For ins

tonray
tonray

He is going to do it because at this  point there is zero downside to doing it. If it works and provides protection then he wins, the only way it won't work is if challenged and invalidated in the cou

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Jeffr2 Diamond Member

Jeffr2

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9 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Trump reimbursed Cohens expenses in his dealings with an actress 

You're leaving a few facts out.  Cohen is in jail for this, Trump should be also.  Sadly, the DOJ won't indict a sitting president.  A get out of jail for free card...which expires Jan 20th.

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PatOngo Ruby Member

PatOngo

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1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Yes, she could have found herself being faced with extortion and blackmail charges

But she did'nt and she laughed all the way to the bank! Her book was actually good reading, I think she's a lot smarter than Donald!

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Pattaya Spotter Platinum Member

Pattaya Spotter

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23 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/nyregion/trump-fraud-investigations-taxes.html

Trump Tax Write-Offs Are Ensnared in 2 New York Fraud Investigations

Inquiries into the president and his businesses, one criminal and one civil, are now looking at tax deductions taken on consulting fees. Some of the payments appear to have gone to Ivanka Trump.

Inquiries and investigations are not criminal indictments/charges, and are conducted by prosecutor's offices around the country every day on thousands of people. You know, like the ongoing federal tax evasion investigation of Hunter Biden.

Edited by Pattaya Spotter
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Andy from Kent Gold Member

Andy from Kent

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20 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Some of the payments appear to have gone to Ivanka Trump.

 

 

Oh No!!!    Not sweet Ivanka the daughter for whom Donald Trump has a very strong  unhealthy attraction.

 

Donald Trump's presidency has  been largely guided  by his pathological nature.

 

 

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Jeffr2 Diamond Member

Jeffr2

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3 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Inquiries and investigations are not criminal indictments/charges, and are conducted by prosecutor's offices around the country every day on thousands of people. You know, like the ongoing federal tax evasion investigation of Hunter Biden.

Ummm....criminal investigations like this lead to indictments/charges.  You are aware of that, right?  And, can't indict a sitting president.  Thus, the AG is waiting for January.  Can't wait.

 

Why deflect to Hunter?

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Jeffr2 Diamond Member

Jeffr2

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3 minutes ago, Andy from Kent said:

 

 

Oh No!!!    Not sweet Ivanka the daughter for whom Donald Trump has a very strong  unhealthy attraction.

 

Donald Trump's presidency has  been largely guided  by his pathological nature.

 

 

Yeah, looks like Ivanka is under investigation.  For this and the inauguration party.  I believe Eric was just in court. 

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CorpusChristie Platinum Member

CorpusChristie

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12 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

You're leaving a few facts out.  Cohen is in jail for this, Trump should be also.  Sadly, the DOJ won't indict a sitting president.  A get out of jail for free card...which expires Jan 20th.

 

  Wasnt Cohen jailed for tax evasion and for his illicit involvement with Russia business dealings and it had nothing to to with the legal Stormy Daniels confidentiality payments  ?

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FritsSikkink Diamond Member

FritsSikkink

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21 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Inquiries and investigations are not criminal indictments/charges, and are conducted by prosecutor's offices around the country every day on thousands of people. You know, like the ongoing federal tax evasion investigation of Hunter Biden.

What has Hunter Biden to do with Trump's law cases? Shouldn't you bring Hillary into the matter too.

Edited by FritsSikkink
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vandeventer Platinum Member

vandeventer

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3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Just your opinion i am afraid as laws are written but the US constitution like the current Thai Constitution is written to allow such pardons and the constitution which was drafted hundereds of years ago would need to be changed by adding an amendment. However, that would only be for any new cases that violated the provisions and not those new provisions written after the violations occurred. There is no law which would allow a prosecution on something that was not illegal before, and the new provisions could only undo those convicted of a violation of the prior constitution if that was newly added.

Maybe you should look at Obama's and Biden's pardon list, as they released some really nice people.

 

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons

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Jeffr2 Diamond Member

Jeffr2

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13 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Wasnt Cohen jailed for tax evasion and for his illicit involvement with Russia business dealings and it had nothing to to with the legal Stormy Daniels confidentiality payments  ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cohen_(lawyer)

The investigation led him to plead guilty on August 21, 2018, to eight counts including campaign finance violations, tax fraud, and bank fraud.[8]Cohen said he violated campaign finance laws at the direction of Trump and "for the principal purpose of influencing" the 2016 presidential election.[9] In November 2018, Cohen entered a second guilty plea for lying to a Senate committee about efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.[10][11]

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Jeffr2 Diamond Member

Jeffr2

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6 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Maybe you should look at Obama's and Biden's pardon list, as they released some really nice people.

 

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-pardons

Most individuals granted executive clemency by Obama had been convicted on drug charges,[4] and had received lengthy and sometimes mandatory sentences at the height of the war on drugs.[5]

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Jeffr2 Diamond Member

Jeffr2

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Worth a read:

https://fortune.com/2020/12/23/trump-pardons-who-will-get-one-history/

Quote

Trump's clemency activity also stands out in that most of it has been in service of political cronies and those with whom he has a personal relationship. Past Presidents have mostly—though not entirely—used the pardon power to address systemic injustice, such as racist drug sentences, or to address broader political riffs in the country, such as President Carter's decision to forgive those who left the U.S. to avoid military service in Vietnam.

 

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Pattaya Spotter Platinum Member

Pattaya Spotter

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35 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

criminal investigations like this lead to indictments/charges.  You are aware of that, right?

90% of them don't...just ask Hillary Clinton. As to Hunter, just giving you an example of a real ongoing criminal federal investigation...not the phantom ones your keep alluding to regarding Mr. Trump.

Edited by Pattaya Spotter
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Pattaya Spotter Platinum Member

Pattaya Spotter

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22 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

What has Hunter Biden to do with Trump's law cases? Shouldn't you bring Hillary into the matter too.

Who said it did...just giving an example of a real ongoing federal criminal investigation...not the phantom ones keep being referenced to regarding President Trump. You seem a bit defensive of Coke Boy.

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Jeffr2 Diamond Member

Jeffr2

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4 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

90% of them don't...just ask Hillary Clinton. As to Hunter, just giving you an example of a real ongoing criminal federal investigation...not the phantom ones your keep alluding to regarding Mr. Trump.

What's Hillary got to do with this?  Or Hunter?  Why the deflection?  Why the denial of what's going on with Trump and the dozens of cases ongoing against him?  I don't get it.

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joecoolfrog Gold Member

joecoolfrog

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6 hours ago, sirineou said:

He already pardoned his daughter's father in law. 

BS , how does  a president pardoning his cronies serve the public good? 

Don' t anyone see the problem with presidential pardons? For instance, Aid:  "sir I can't do that it's illegal and I could go to jail" President,: "Don't worry I will pardon you" 

Son: "Dad that illegal , what if I get caught" President "don't worry son if you get caught I will pardon you"

In this day and age I can see no justification for presidential pardons , as pointed out there is huge scope for corruption.

Misscarriages of justice can be dealt with by the courts , no need for dictatorial powers.

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placeholder Star Member

placeholder

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8 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Who said it did...just giving an example of a real ongoing federal criminal investigation...not the phantom ones keep being referenced to regarding President Trump. You seem a bit defensive of Coke Boy.

Why just federal investigations? There are 2 live ongoing investigations of Trump  bring pursued by NY State. The evidence looks quite damning.

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Pattaya Spotter Platinum Member

Pattaya Spotter

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3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

What's Hillary got to do with this?  Or Hunter?  Why the deflection?  Why the denial of what's going on with Trump and the dozens of cases ongoing against him?  I don't get it.

"Dozens of [ongoing] cases..." [implies charges have been filed]. Can you name just one case...a single one?

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placeholder

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1 minute ago, joecoolfrog said:

In this day and age I can see no justification for presidential pardons , as pointed out there is huge scope for corruption.

Misscarriages of justice can be dealt with by the courts , no need for dictatorial powers.

Well, if I had my druthers, no pardons for govt officials, family, friends,  and acquaintances.

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Jeffr2 Diamond Member

Jeffr2

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1 minute ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

"Dozens of [ongoing] cases..." [implies charges have been filed]. Can you name just one case...a single one?

You make this too easy.  But then, you'll deflect to Hillary, Obama, Hunter...

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54710200

A US federal judge has dismissed an effort by the Department of Justice (DoJ) to defend President Donald Trump in a case brought by a woman who accuses him of raping her.

Columnist E Jean Carroll accuses Mr Trump of assaulting her in a Manhattan department store in the 1990s.

In a lawsuit, she argues the president defamed her when he denied her claim and said she was "totally lying".

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Pattaya Spotter Platinum Member

Pattaya Spotter

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2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Why just federal investigations? There are 2 live ongoing investigaytons of Trump  bring pursued by NY State. The evidence looks quite damning.

The op and replies concern whether Trump can pardon himself. By definition, this refers to federal crimes, not state ones, so mention of state level investigations would be superfluous. 

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Jeffr2 Diamond Member

Jeffr2

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2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, if I had my druthers, no pardons for govt officials, family, friends,  and acquaintances.

That's what I don't get.  These MAGA people are OK with this, but bash Hunter for bogus junk.  I don't get it.  Trump pardoned Kushner's father who threatened a witness!!!  Tried and convicted.  And MAGA people are OK with this.

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Jeffr2 Diamond Member

Jeffr2

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1 minute ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The op and replies concern whether Trump can pardon himself. By definition, this refers to federal crimes, not state ones, so mention of state level investigations would be superfluous. 

Superfluous only to you....it indicates he's committed a crime.  Otherwise, why the investigations?

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Pattaya Spotter Platinum Member

Pattaya Spotter

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Just now, Jeffr2 said:

You make this too easy.  But then, you'll deflect to Hillary, Obama, Hunter...

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54710200

A US federal judge has dismissed an effort by the Department of Justice (DoJ) to defend President Donald Trump in a case brought by a woman who accuses him of raping her.

Columnist E Jean Carroll accuses Mr Trump of assaulting her in a Manhattan department store in the 1990s.

In a lawsuit, she argues the president defamed her when he denied her claim and said she was "totally lying".

Another member who doesn't understand the difference between civil cases and criminal ones. I hope you're never sued in a civil matter and go out and hire a criminal defense lawyer ????????????

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scorecard Star Member

scorecard

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4 hours ago, Kelsall said:

 

Not one of these shows a criminal conviction in a court of law.  You are unable to provide proof Trump has ever been convicted of a criminal offense because non exists.

That doesn't mean he's innocent nor that a court action has been started of completed.

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