The week that was in Thailand news: Good riddance 2020 - Let's hope the Year of the Ox is less of a burden!

[rooster59]

The week that was in Thailand news: Good riddance 2020 - Let's hope the Year of the Ox is less of a burden!

 

 

It seems like a very long time ago – almost in a previous life – when we were preparing for what the Thai press dubbed "D-Day" January 1st 2020.
 
That was the day when our lives in Thailand were going to change forever. When we would no longer get plastic bags at the supermarket or 7-Eleven!

Rooster was all prepared to do his collective bit for the environment by remembering to take a cloth bag or a backpack to Big C and Lotus. I was determined to play my part and alter my irresponsible behavior. I was ready to learn! It all seemed very important.

Little did I and millions of others know that this meager effort would be almost as irrelevant as a single bag floating in the ocean compared to all the other things that 2020 would present to us.

People of my parents’ generation used to say they remembered where they were when JFK was shot. Doubtless younger ones and relative oldies like myself recall exactly what they were doing when some errant planes started crashing in New York.

But despite their extraordinary aftermaths, those were single days in history. Now we have a whole year to reflect on, a year when we will always tell tales to our children and grandchildren about where we were and what we did. A year that we will never forget (and one that could yet become two!).

The Year of Coronavirus – the Year of Covid-19.

Like JFK’s assassination and the terrible events of 9/11, 2020 will never be seen in splendid isolation. Its repercussions will be felt throughout our lives and will effectively mold who we are whether we live in Asia or anywhere else on earth.

This columnist quickly managed to use a cloth bag. I was rarely caught short having to buy one or drive home having forgotten. I felt a certain misplaced pride in doing my bit as January turned into February and news emerged of something that had transpired in Wuhan. Johns Hopkins quickly predicted Armageddon. This seemed too much and one of my first columns on the subject pooh-poohed the virus.

One of many things I was to learn this year was not to assume anything. I was soon dining on humble pie and backtracking. It was at least recognized by my detractors that my idiocy didn’t last too long (unlike some of the loony conspiracy theorists who have pervaded 2020 like a separate virus).
 
For me the year was characterized by many things that will be familiar to The Week That Was readers. The realization that this was a life changer. The interminably long lockdown spent with children off school incarcerated at home with a condo swimming pool off limits. Communicating long distance with family members who we couldn’t hug. Avoiding contact with those we hold dear for fear we might infect them. Stopping international travel and even being wary to do much moving locally.

It wasn’t difficult to adjust to working from home. But the work became “samey”. Tourism destruction, desolate Pattaya, food lines with desperate people, emergency decrees, health protocols, curfews, graphs, testing, government successes and failures, unemployment, predictions, waves and second waves, do this don’t do that, STV, recovery, no recovery, quarantine, breaking quarantine …virus, virus, virus, Covid ad nauseam...pandemic overload.
 
And what’s worse, at least for those of us living in Thailand, just when we thought it was safe to “go back in the water” and perhaps enjoy the fruits of our collective efforts and those of a government that acted quite decisively backing up a clear plan of public health measures, along comes a double whammy. Any Schadenfreude we might have felt towards Europe or the USA is coming home to roost.

So what did we learn this year – I’d be interested to see your comments on this. I learned a lot of new Thai words and expressions (and the English for them!) I learned I was not so good as I thought at being isolated. I learned how to make Wendy houses from old cardboard boxes but that my patience for my own children was not as bounteous as I once imagined.

Like taking the cloth bag, I soon adjusted to having a mask in my pocket, a mask everywhere. Not shaking hands, giving people more space and washing hands again and again and again. All that gel! Getting used to watching much more TV, sporting events without spectators. Turning a blind eye to the children’s excessive screen time.

My cooking skills improved and I expanded my diet. I haven’t bought bread for almost six months. Exercise went out of the window – there was always the excuse that it would end soon and then things would get back to normal. Some hope!

Financially the year has been a disaster. So many have lost their jobs, had salaries cut or seen thriving businesses go down the pan. In this regard Rooster has been one of the lucky ones. People always seem to want news! In addition, I have found that my spending this year has been lower than almost any in the last two decades. What has there been to spend money on? When it is over, businesses who have managed to ride out the storm may find customers with plenty of money to make up for lost time.
 
All we can hope is that 2021 will be better. The promise of several vaccines are there. If we can just keep going a bit longer……

It was a week on Thaivisa where, inevitably, the virus was at the top of the news like never before. The events of Samut Sakhon saw to that with the fallout spreading to dozens of other provinces and causing a toppling of the dominoes effect on end of year celebrations and parties. The authorities – and the people themselves – called for a tightening of familiar restrictions.

How we have got used to being slaves to this demon!

Pattaya cancelled their countdown and a Carabao concert in Sri Racha was pulled. Visitors to a market complained that the "tessakit" (local officials) had deserted their post when they were most needed.

The scapegoating began in earnest with many pointing the finger of blame at migrant workers. A Myanmar lady told of abuse and racial prejudice in her seven years in Thailand. A Thai vegetable trader said his compatriots were behaving worse than ever.

 

A factory owner was alleged to have abandoned his workers by the side of the road though this was later contested. (How the press love to speculate – how we have been bombarded with fake news this year!). Prayut stoked the fire by blaming the gangs who smuggle the migrants.

The buck should stop with him but it invariably seems to float on by. The protesters seemed to be hunkering down before renewed efforts in the New Year.

Health minister Anutin said that everything was under control. Always a worry. The face behind the mask – as we usually see him – held one up and declared that all will be fine if we trust the authorities, and follow the established protocols. The seafood industry looked set to lose a billion baht a day.

Tourism authorities said that we could forget any visitors in the first quarter of 2021. Tourism minister Pipat then announced he was working with the TAT and the tourist police on making sure there was no more corruption – this time in the stimulus scheme for the over 55s. They decided to check if the oldies’ groups had actually made it to their destinations – something they hadn’t bothered with for the “Rao Thiaw Duay Gan” project.

Assuming that Thais – or any human come to that - won’t connive and fiddle is usually a mistake.
 
In international news my home county of Kent found itself at the epicenter of a new strain of the virus that had much of the UK entering “Tier Four”. Everyone started banning the Brits from travelling to their countries though some sense prevailed later from the French, subject to tests! The lorries had been backing up….

At least a Brexit deal looked increasingly more likely at the 11th hour. This may temporarily give retirees a few extra baht in their wallets.

In the States the incumbent started vetoing everything and even Republicans prepared to vote him down. Though hardly amusing to most Americans, the political situation Stateside has provided some distraction in 2020.

In Spain the great Lionel Messi broke the single club scoring record set by the legendary Pele with his 644th goal for Barcelona.

In China a study of adults found that more than half of them were overweight.

Back in Thailand a move was made to make abortion up to 12 weeks legal. One Thai man who was unfortunately not aborted was Ocha from Nakhon Sri Thammarat. 

He had conned Thitirat, a BMA employee, into believing he was a wealthy orchard owner. When the truth was revealed and they argued he shot her four times in a car then covered her in a jacket and put a mask on her to make like she was a sleeping passenger.

He then drove her south for SIX hours leaving her to be found in the car. He was soon arrested and at least will be highly unlikely to procreate. We could do without his genes.

As New Year approached the transport authorities said that 30% of people heading out of Bangkok had cancelled their tickets. One official had earlier come up with “New Lifestyle – Safe Driving – No Accidents” for the “pee mai” holidays.

Some things never change.

Finally as you doubtless tuck into your second load of turkey leftovers may I take this opportunity to wish all my readers a happy and safe New Year.

The Chinese say that 2021 will be the Year of the Ox.

Let’s hope, unlike 2020, it is neither a beast nor a burden.

Rooster
 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2020-12-27

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

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[Lacessit]

IMO  the dumbest restriction in the year of coronavirus had to be the ban on swimming pools. AFAIK there is not one nation anywhere that has reported a COVID-19 cluster originating from one.

Properly-chlorinated swimming pools are a death-trap for bacteria and even more so viruses. It only takes 0.1 ppm of free available chlorine for effective disinfection.

Apart from a Stage 4 HEPA filtered positive pressure biological facility, a swimming pool is one of the safest places on the planet to be.

[2530Ubon]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO  the dumbest restriction in the year of coronavirus had to be the ban on swimming pools. AFAIK there is not one nation anywhere that has reported a COVID-19 cluster originating from one.

Properly-chlorinated swimming pools are a death-trap for bacteria and even more so viruses. It only takes 0.1 ppm of free available chlorine for effective disinfection.

Apart from a Stage 4 HEPA filtered positive pressure biological facility, a swimming pool is one of the safest places on the planet to be.

Properly chlorinated? Stage 4 HEPA filtered positive pressure?

 

Thai swimming pool owners are shaking and scratching their heads in bemusement and amusement. "Mai cow jai, mee nam yu yut..."

As with most things not visible to the eye, I'm sure owners around the world skimp and save money on these types of things. Hence the ban.

 

BTW, there was a cluster of COVID linked to a swimming pool in Australia NSW:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-23/nsw-coronavirus-exposure-locations-23-december/13009392

Quote

Those who visited the pool deck level of the Bondi Icebergs Club at certain times on December 20 and December 21 should get tested and isolate, NSW Health says.(ABC My Photo The Vertical pixel)

 

And another in the USA:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/23/us/arkansas-swim-party-coronavirus/index.html

Quote

"A high school swim party that I'm sure everybody thought was harmless. They're young, they're swimming, they're just having activity and positive cases resulted from that," Hutchinson said.

 

[Samui Bodoh]

1 hour ago, rooster59 said:

So what did we learn this year – I’d be interested to see your comments on this.

 

Let me start with a contrarian idea; I am not terribly worried about future Corona Virus'. Yes, I know that people expect more of them in the future, and I am certain that we will see more of them in the future, but I also see that humanity has shaken off its blinders and realized that something needs to be done. The global medical establishment, for all its faults, have created several vaccines in record time and the knowledge and experienced gained means that it can do it again, as needed. The big problem in 2020 (and a wee bit earlier) was not listening to the experts; they knew that this sort of thing was coming

 

We as a species desperately need to get away from the idea that anyone with an opinion, an Internet connection, or a megaphone qualifies as an expert (yes, I am thinking of you, Donald Trump). We used to treat experts with respect because we believed that they had useful knowledge; I am not really sure where/when we lost that idea, but it is time to get it back. It is really, really time to get it back.

 

I think the most significant effect of Covid-19 will be in regards to governmental powers and individual freedoms. Sadly, I need to state very clearly out front that I am not (NOT!!!) talking about moronic conspiracy theories like' Q-Anon' or the 'Great Reset' or the rest of the manure they spew. 'Whack jobs' be crazy and it is better to give them all a wide berth.

 

This will be, generally speaking, the second great event in member's lives where governmental power has expanded drastically; the first was the expansion of security powers after September 11/the fight against international terrorism. Yes, many will argue that it was needed to protect humanity from crazy people who might acquire nukes, germs, chemicals, etc., and perhaps they were right (I think it is still too soon to tell). This second event has seen the rapid increase of technological monitoring in the name of fighting a global plague; it is difficult to argue that there hasn't been a need. However, it is a truism among those that study Politics and History that when a government, whether benign or malignant, acquires new powers and/or authorities, they don't give them up easily. Or, at all.

 

It is tempting to posit that future historians will look back and state that Covid-19 was the dominant factor defining the 2020s. I suspect that future historians will look back at the 2020s and discuss how the relationship between Citizen and State changed. Will the coming decade produce a new paradigm whereby humanity balanced the need for freedom, creativity, free speech, travel, and all the good things in life with the need to protect us from threats all around? 

 

I hope so.

 

I don't know.

 

 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

Properly chlorinated? Stage 4 HEPA filtered positive pressure?

 

Thai swimming pool owners are shaking and scratching their heads in bemusement and amusement. "Mai cow jai, mee nam yu yut..."

As with most things not visible to the eye, I'm sure owners around the world skimp and save money on these types of things. Hence the ban.

 

BTW, there was a cluster of COVID linked to a swimming pool in Australia NSW:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-23/nsw-coronavirus-exposure-locations-23-december/13009392

 

And another in the USA:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/23/us/arkansas-swim-party-coronavirus/index.html

 

Your point, however, let me suggest the infections arose not from being in the pools, but from congregating at parties around it.

Read my post again please, the Stage 4 HEPA refers to a laboratory, not a swimming pool.

The two condos I have lived at in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai both have always been properly chlorinated. How do I know this? Most everyone's nose is a very efficient detector of chlorine, and part of my skill set is olfactory training.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

 

 

We as a species desperately need to get away from the idea that anyone with an opinion, an Internet connection, or a megaphone qualifies as an expert (yes, I am thinking of you, Donald Trump). We used to treat experts with respect because we believed that they had useful knowledge; I am not really sure where/when we lost that idea, but it is time to get it back. It is really, really time to get it back.

 

I

 

 

As a species, we have egregious cognitive dissonance when it comes to science. I'm not sure if the stereotype of the mad scientist has survived to this day, but it certainly was present in my childhood. Perhaps that's why I took up science as a profession, I was a contrarian too.

We happily accept all the technological marvels of science, such as air travel, the various communication technologies, and the miracles of medicine that keep us alive for a lot longer than we would normally live without them. Yet when science tells us what we don't want to hear, such as the threat of climate change or the best methods for controlling a pandemic, some of us band together and start hatching conspiracy theories.

The other problem is a small minority of scientists and medicos who, for the sake of fame or money, dispute the findings of the scientific majority. On extremely rare occasions, they may be right. Usually their hallmark is they are publishing their data and hypotheses without any peer review, and they publish on the fringe as none of the prestigious scientific or medical journals will accept their articles without said review. Scott Atlas is a fairly obvious example of this minority, he told Trump what he wanted to hear and succeeded in sidelining Fauci and Birx, who were bringing a more unpalatable truth to the table.

If there is one thing the pandemic has taught us, it is nations need to take back their manufacturing capacity and skills from an authoritarian regime that is bent on world hegemony.

[Nout]

52 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Your point, however, let me suggest the infections arose not from being in the pools, but from congregating at parties around it.

Read my post again please, the Stage 4 HEPA refers to a laboratory, not a swimming pool.

The two condos I have lived at in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai both have always been properly chlorinated. How do I know this? Most everyone's nose is a very efficient detector of chlorine, and part of my skill set is olfactory training.

Does the smell of chlorine indicate a proper level of chlorination or an over chlorinated pool? Or does it indicate uric acid or urine in the pool?

[Lacessit]

11 minutes ago, Nout said:

Does the smell of chlorine indicate a proper level of chlorination or an over chlorinated pool? Or does it indicate uric acid or urine in the pool?

The smell indicates a proper level. Overchlorination results in stinging of the eyes and nasal passages.

The nitrogen-containing chemicals in urine combine with chlorine to form chloramines, which are then present in measurement of Total Available Chlorine, as distinct from Free Available Chlorine.

[sanuk711]

4 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

Those who visited the pool deck level of the Bondi Icebergs Club at certain times on December 20 and December 21 should get tested and isolate, NSW Health says.(ABC My Photo The Vertical pixel)

Its been some years since I have been to Sydney---but I do not think that is a swimming pool...in real terms, Its fed by the ocean. I think there has been a swimming pool built with the Condos (in the 80s) that is next to it.

[2530Ubon]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Your point, however, let me suggest the infections arose not from being in the pools, but from congregating at parties around it.

Read my post again please, the Stage 4 HEPA refers to a laboratory, not a swimming pool.

The two condos I have lived at in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai both have always been properly chlorinated. How do I know this? Most everyone's nose is a very efficient detector of chlorine, and part of my skill set is olfactory training.

My point was we live in Thailand - there is an extremely high possibility that the swimming pool is not the best cared for feature of any given hotel / condo / swimming area.

 

Smell doesn't indicate a proper level of anything - it indicates a certain substance is present. Unless you use some sort of scientific measuring device, you will not be able to determine the amount (or lack of) chlorine in the water.

 

Furthermore, whilst chlorine may kill off any bacteria/virus in the water, it doesn't stop you catching anything when you're out of the pool - either casually walking past someone - in the changing rooms, or even putting your hand on a door to get into the facility/locker.

 

The kids caught COVID at an Arkansas swimming pool. Chlorine didn't prevent any of them catching it. Facts are, a simple google search "Swimming pool COVID clusters" reveals quite a lot of entries. Here's some more:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8956179/Adelaide-coronavirus-cluster-Urgent-call-visited-public-pool-isolate-immediately.html

Quote

 

South Australians who visited a public pool have been told they must isolate immediately as health authorities release urgent alerts for dozens of venues across the state. 

SA Health has ordered all swimmers who attended The Aquadome in Elizabeth, north of Adelaide, between 11.00am and 1.30pm on Saturday to self-quarantine for 14 days. 

The state recorded one new coronavirus infection overnight following an outbreak in north Adelaide. There are now 20 confirmed and suspected cases associated to the emerging cluster.

 

 

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20201022002052320

Quote

Infections tied to an indoor swimming pool in southern Seoul reached 10, up nine over the past 24 hours.

 

[unblocktheplanet]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Will the coming decade produce a new paradigm whereby humanity balanced the need for freedom, creativity, free speech, travel, and all the good things in life with the need to protect us from threats all around? 

 

I hope so.

 

I don't know.

 

 

This is the best post I ever read on TV. Thank you. I hope you share it more widely. People need to hear a voice of reason & balance. Earlier, you mention "members"--that means members of the living community, not just humans, but all life on Earth.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

My point was we live in Thailand - there is an extremely high possibility that the swimming pool is not the best cared for feature of any given hotel / condo / swimming area.

 

Smell doesn't indicate a proper level of anything - it indicates a certain substance is present. Unless you use some sort of scientific measuring device, you will not be able to determine the amount (or lack of) chlorine in the water.

 

Furthermore, whilst chlorine may kill off any bacteria/virus in the water, it doesn't stop you catching anything when you're out of the pool - either casually walking past someone - in the changing rooms, or even putting your hand on a door to get into the facility/locker.

 

The kids caught COVID at an Arkansas swimming pool. Chlorine didn't prevent any of them catching it. Facts are, a simple google search "Swimming pool COVID clusters" reveals quite a lot of entries. Here's some more:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8956179/Adelaide-coronavirus-cluster-Urgent-call-visited-public-pool-isolate-immediately.html

 

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20201022002052320

 

All valid points, except for one. If one can smell chlorine, it's working. The level is irrelevant , chlorine works just as well in terms of disinfection at 0.1 ppm FAC as it would at 5 ppm. Scientific measuring devices are not needed, except to tell the pool attendant whether they are overdosing and hence wasting hypochlorite.

As someone who has been involved in water and effluent treatment and analysis for many years, with a formal qualification in chemistry, I think I can claim to know what I am talking about. How about you?

[Mark mark]

Well I will have a go at ... Briefly and yes ... Briefly !!! posting on Todays good Rooster collum, ...  from my mobile phone while in bed.  John with out Yoko style, right ... ...  +3.5 Hrs here in Adelaide South Australia. ...

 

This all being a big danger, as my English and Approach to it, is probably only just acceptable when properly writen on my pc. 

 

... But well yes ... CV 19 ... the "Just Too Many Rats in the Box" disease ... ... And destruction of our Environment ?  outcome. ! ... ? ... Yes things never will be the same.  NEVER. !!! ... As  well, a huge jolt this big ... never tealy can be fully turned back, ? or repaired I think. ...

 

But I can see an upside and things very well may ... like Just MAY ... Actualt end up getting better !!! ... Or even a LOT BETTER !!! ... depending in where you live quite possibly. ? ... Like how dense the Population preasure is where you just happen to live. .??? .. and how Diciplined your society there is ... like how well they can work together. Like I think that Yhailand will be very wrll ok in the end also. ? 

 

Like maybe we CAN start to slow down the destruction of the environment that suports us !!! Just for a start ? 

 

And here in Adelaide basicly we just have not had the Virus ... like we had an out bresk jusy recently,  of 38 people when it escsped from aState Quarintine hotel and yes via a Poorly trainef imigrant Secrity Guards. ? Once agsin ? (A <deleted>ty job but some one had to do it !!! Right) ...

 

And they locked down the whole state for a week ... tben they discovetd one of the culprits had lied to the contract tracers, about getting it from a pizza box ! ... and he actualy had been working there .! .. (possibly a Tax or residency permit problem for him, ... as well as their employer who had kust krpt stum also) ... So tbey oprnd every thing back up again.

 

But well in COVID free ... like dodged the bullet and Ant Arctia our closrst non Aistralian neighbour !!! South Audtralia, andthe Econemy is just now booming and probably better than it evet was !!! ... ... Houses have gone up 23% in the Western Suburbs, when they hardly had moved in 10 years before that !!! ... And car sails are over the moon ! ... Like every one is scared ! ... So buying a  house and a car !!! ... But also spending all of there money here ..

 And not going over seas !!!

 

And working from home !!! ... Now the problem really looks like "How to get them all to come back to the Office" !!! ... like realestate in the country side, which was almost a ghoast town before .... Is doubeling !!! ... Like people  have realised that  they csn live better and more healthy lives in the country side .. and still get by very well thankyou very much ... by working on line !!! (Like buyimg houses or csrs ... or trading stocks !!! Right ...  Which sldo have gone up about 24% !!! here) ...

 

 

So well .. when ...eventuaky we get back to the NEW normsl !!! ... Well quite possibly things just might even be BETTER than before !!! ... ???

[Mark mark]

The above report about the Swimming pool in Northern Adrlaide was over a month ago now I think ? snd I did not hear any thing specificly about it. Well thr pool. ...  It was the "parafiekd Cluster" csme from a syaye Quarintone jotel and they could never say why ? They said that it must hsve bern air borne droplets and poor A/C ? ... But a mugrant worker got It I think ...  and took it home.  ... and having young people in it ... they drove all over Adelaide with it... ans set iff aletts every ehere !!! ... and one worked in the Woodvillr Piza bar. .. (which had to be put under Police guard, after they found out thst he lied to contact trscers about catching it from a Piza bix delivered to him ... when he sctualy worjed there and got it off the other workers who worked as security guards aldo ... bit this got the whole town shut down, as they thought it eas a new strain thst got aroing kn fast foid delivery !!!!!! )  ... 

 

 But I think thst the oytbresk never realy got over 40 ? Or 50 people ? .. And ofcourse with that low a number, the contsct tracers, were abkr to squash it ... and we have none agsin .! ... Like lets go iut and buy a better house and Car !!! Right ? ... S. A. !!!  ....

[Stargeezr]

Thanks Rooster.  Great read of the news. There are still people in parts of the world

who are gathering to protest some cause of other, and it is disturbing.  I hear of people

saying that swimming pools are great places, but it is not the pool itself that is the danger.

How does everyone get out of the pool, by the same ladder, and that is where they can easily

get in contact with the virus.  Not every pool has a shallow side with steps that allow people to 

exit the pool without touching the same area as everyone else.   Think about it.

  The ocean is different as the beach is long and people can get into and out of the water far apart.

    It will be a different world for a few years as even if most people get vaccinated, the Covid virus

will not be going away any time soon.  The mask wearing and social distancing will still be a

good thing to do for the next 5 years until everyone is able to be immune to this killer virus.

   The new strain is a case in point, if it is more contagious, then more people will become

sick in the next while, also more people will die. There are also way to many,  Covidiots

who walk among us, and they will continue to be a frustration to all around them.

Geezer

[Keesters]

20 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IMO  the dumbest restriction in the year of coronavirus had to be the ban on swimming pools. AFAIK there is not one nation anywhere that has reported a COVID-19 cluster originating from one.

Properly-chlorinated swimming pools are a death-trap for bacteria and even more so viruses. It only takes 0.1 ppm of free available chlorine for effective disinfection.

Apart from a Stage 4 HEPA filtered positive pressure biological facility, a swimming pool is one of the safest places on the planet to be.

 

In banning the pool it bans the cluster of people around the pool, in the showers and changing rooms, at the nearby bar etc. Effective social distancing control. 

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, Keesters said:

 

In banning the pool it bans the cluster of people around the pool, in the showers and changing rooms, at the nearby bar etc. Effective social distancing control. 

What you say is quite correct. However, at my condo there is one open shower for rinsing before and after, everyone changes gear in their apartments, and there's no bar. Alcohol is banned in the pool area, and the maximum number of people I've ever seen there is four.

So far, I've seen about four examples on this thread of a known or suspected COVID cluster around a swimming pool. Another was a false positive, ocean pools are not chlorinated. Statistically, that's not a lot when one considers how many swimming pools there are in the world. I probably stand a better chance of being hit by lightning on a golf course.

I guess I'm bitching about the one-size-fits-all mentality of bureaucracies.

[rumak]

On 12/27/2020 at 11:46 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

many will argue that it was needed to protect humanity from crazy people who might acquire nukes, germs, chemicals, etc., and perhaps they were right (I think it is still too soon to tell). This second event has seen the rapid increase of technological monitoring in the name of fighting a global plague; it is difficult to argue that there hasn't been a need. However, it is a truism among those that study Politics and History that when a government, whether benign or malignant, acquires new powers and/or authorities, they don't give them up easily. Or, at all.

 

It is tempting to posit that future historians will look back and state that Covid-19 was the dominant factor defining the 2020s. I suspect that future historians will look back at the 2020s and discuss how the relationship between Citizen and State changed. Will the coming decade produce a new paradigm whereby humanity balanced the need for freedom, creativity, free speech, travel, and all the good things in life with the need to protect us from threats all around? 

 

A thoughtful excerpt from your post .  My objections to the ever growing restrictions on freedom which have been spreading around the world ( much like a virus)  by the governments and those with power are much as you describe.   To simply call those who object " tin hats"  or "conspiracy nuts"  makes me think of one word to describe such holier than thou "fact quoters".    Idiots.  People who blindly follow because they do not have the intelligence or training to understand "critical thinking".    Its all so black and white to them.  

Almost 50 % of the population is vastly overweight and unhealthy ...... but are they bombarded 24/7  with the FACT  that this WILL lead to serious health problems ?   Why not?    Shouldn't all junk food outlets (which is basically all that exists nowadays)  be closed down as public health hazards ?   Those that argue that nobody forces people to eat that stuff ,   well,    shouldn't they at least be forced to wear a mask !    (humor)

 

Long ago there were aritists and writers objecting to the soul destroying tendencies that arose.   1984,  Animal Farm,  One Flew over the cudkoos nest,  Stranger in a Strange Land,  George Carlin,   etc.   .   

George even posts on this forum (rarely nowdays)  even though he is well outnumbered by the  common posters.     Such is the fate of so many that choose to see things differently.

 

Peace,  Prosperity.................. and remember to Lock Up      ????

 

[2530Ubon]

21 hours ago, Lacessit said:

All valid points, except for one. If one can smell chlorine, it's working. The level is irrelevant , chlorine works just as well in terms of disinfection at 0.1 ppm FAC as it would at 5 ppm. Scientific measuring devices are not needed, except to tell the pool attendant whether they are overdosing and hence wasting hypochlorite.

As someone who has been involved in water and effluent treatment and analysis for many years, with a formal qualification in chemistry, I think I can claim to know what I am talking about. How about you?

I wouldn't claim to know what I'm talking about regarding chlorine, but as a medical professional, diagnostic radiologist (no longer practicing as I'm in Thailand) I do claim to know perhaps a little about the spread of infections.

[Lacessit]

15 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

I wouldn't claim to know what I'm talking about regarding chlorine, but as a medical professional, diagnostic radiologist (no longer practicing as I'm in Thailand) I do claim to know perhaps a little about the spread of infections.

In that case, perhaps you could confirm the spread of infections seem to originate mostly from environments such as meat markets and places where people are in close proximity, whereas swimming pools and golf courses are small potatoes in terms of overall contribution.

[2530Ubon]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

In that case, perhaps you could confirm the spread of infections seem to originate mostly from environments such as meat markets and places where people are in close proximity, whereas swimming pools and golf courses are small potatoes in terms of overall contribution.

 

When we are talking about potentially catching a lethal virus, and then possibly giving that potentially lethal virus to another human being - perhaps a loved one, or a stranger - then there are no such things as 'small potatoes'.

 

You want to swim and think it's ridiculous that people can't swim together during this pandemic.

 

I think it's ridiculous (and a little selfish) that you want to put swimming before health. Suck it up and quit moaning.

Edited December 29, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

 

When we are talking about potentially catching a lethal virus, and then possibly giving that potentially lethal virus to another human being - perhaps a loved one, or a stranger - then there are no such things as 'small potatoes'.

 

You want to swim and think it's ridiculous that people can't swim together during this pandemic.

 

I think it's ridiculous (and a little selfish) that you want to put swimming before health. Suck it up and quit moaning.

Swimming is good for the health, as someone in the medical profession should know. Risk-free in a chlorinated environment, no virus can survive.

Go back through my posts, and show where I said anything about people swimming together. IME the action of swimming ensures social distancing, so people don't get tangled up.

BTW, as someone in the medical profession you should also know the impact coronavirus is having on the  exercise patterns of people in terms of mental health. You should also know it's the obese and unfit that are most at risk from COVID-19 infection.

You think I'm selfish, I'm thinking you are exhibiting selective intelligence. I take sensible precautions, but I'm not going to lock myself in a cell, padded or otherwise, just to satisfy your point of view.

[2530Ubon]

 

So just to clarify, you clearly acknowledged earlier that there are COVID clusters linked to people attending swimming pools. Here are your words to remind you:

23 hours ago, Lacessit said:

So far, I've seen about four examples on this thread of a known or suspected COVID cluster around a swimming pool. Another was a false positive, ocean pools are not chlorinated. Statistically, that's not a lot when one considers how many swimming pools there are in the world. I probably stand a better chance of being hit by lightning on a golf course.

I guess I'm bitching about the one-size-fits-all mentality of bureaucracies.

 

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Risk-free in a chlorinated environment, no virus can survive

Here, you're talking nonsense. How can it be risk free and how can the entire environment be chlorinated. Your being obtuse to try and validate your point, which is ridiculous. As you yourself have rightly pointed out, people are, and have been infected, by attending a swimming pool environment. Therefore there is an inherent risk.

 

28 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IME the action of swimming ensures social distancing, so people don't get tangled up.

BTW, as someone in the medical profession you should also know the impact coronavirus is having on the  exercise patterns of people in terms of mental health. You should also know it's the obese and unfit that are most at risk from COVID-19 infection.

What does your swimming experience have to do with this? Nothing is the correct answer. Facts are thus; People have been infected by attending a swimming pool. I'm well aware that patients with an underlying condition and those with obesity are more at risk of adverse effects and death - BUT everyone has the SAME amount of risk when it comes to contracting the virus. It matters not one little bit how healthy or sick you are, you will be infected just the same. So sending these unfit/obese/depressed people to a swimming pool with the potential to catch the virus would be the stupidest thing to do. What's wrong with working out at home? You might not be able to swim, but you could definitely do some squats/push ups/sit ups etc.

33 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You think I'm selfish, I'm thinking you are exhibiting selective intelligence. I take sensible precautions, but I'm not going to lock myself in a cell, padded or otherwise, just to satisfy your point of view.

Yes, I most definitely think you're being selfish if you insist on going out for a swim in an enclosed environment with other people in attendance. You might be perfectly fit and healthy, and you may be in the low risk category. That doesn't prevent you from contracting the virus and passing it on to other vulnerable people. You could potentially be killing other people. I think that is the very definition of selfishness and stupidity. Social responsibility. 

 

Exceptions can not be made when there is a potential life and death situation. I hope that clarifies my point and we can end it here. I have nothing else to say on the matter.

[rumak]

37 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Exceptions can not be made when there is a potential life and death situation. I hope that clarifies my point and we can end it here.

 

No NO NO !  Please don't end it before telling all viewers whether it will be swords or pistols !!!

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

 

So just to clarify, you clearly acknowledged earlier that there are COVID clusters linked to people attending swimming pools. Here are your words to remind you:

 

Here, you're talking nonsense. How can it be risk free and how can the entire environment be chlorinated. Your being obtuse to try and validate your point, which is ridiculous. As you yourself have rightly pointed out, people are, and have been infected, by attending a swimming pool environment. Therefore there is an inherent risk.

 

What does your swimming experience have to do with this? Nothing is the correct answer. Facts are thus; People have been infected by attending a swimming pool. I'm well aware that patients with an underlying condition and those with obesity are more at risk of adverse effects and death - BUT everyone has the SAME amount of risk when it comes to contracting the virus. It matters not one little bit how healthy or sick you are, you will be infected just the same. So sending these unfit/obese/depressed people to a swimming pool with the potential to catch the virus would be the stupidest thing to do. What's wrong with working out at home? You might not be able to swim, but you could definitely do some squats/push ups/sit ups etc.

Yes, I most definitely think you're being selfish if you insist on going out for a swim in an enclosed environment with other people in attendance. You might be perfectly fit and healthy, and you may be in the low risk category. That doesn't prevent you from contracting the virus and passing it on to other vulnerable people. You could potentially be killing other people. I think that is the very definition of selfishness and stupidity. Social responsibility. 

 

Exceptions can not be made when there is a potential life and death situation. I hope that clarifies my point and we can end it here. I have nothing else to say on the matter.

Congratulations, in your rather prolix post you've put words in my mouth that were not there, a couple of red herrings, and a straw man argument. I'll just put you in the same basket as bureaucrats who think one size fits all, you have the same rigidity.

[Lacessit]

37 minutes ago, rumak said:

 

No NO NO !  Please don't end it before telling all viewers whether it will be swords or pistols !!!

 

I choose golf clubs, I have a very sharp niblick.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

 

 What's wrong with working out at home? You might not be able to swim, but you could definitely do some squats/push ups/sit ups etc.

 

[2530Ubon]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I choose golf clubs, I have a very sharp niblick.

Violence - the weapon of choice for the poor debaters and sore losers.

[2530Ubon]

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Congratulations, in your rather prolix post you've put words in my mouth that were not there, a couple of red herrings, and a straw man argument. I'll just put you in the same basket as bureaucrats who think one size fits all, you have the same rigidity.

Those are direct quotes of your posts. Red herrings? Straw men? I thought we were discussing COVID-19. Poor poor you. Nothing to counter with other than hot air.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Violence - the weapon of choice for the poor debaters and sore losers.

It was a joke, Joyce. You obviously have the same sense of humor as the average whelk.

Equally obviously, you are not familiar with the aphorism rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men.