extension of stay refused this morning in udon thani

[brianthainess]

22 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

They appear to be really trying to upset people, 4 excuses for "retirement" refusal that I can remember on.

1. Your bank account is not in this province, it needs to be in the province you live in (extension was granted provided agreed to change for next years application).

2. You've used 2 separate accounts for your 800k, only 1 account is allowed.

3. Yes I know you have 800k in the bank, but I still need proof of your income.

4. Now your income needs to be in a separate account from your balance to make up the 800k.

All 4 to my knowledge are not written down anywhere and taking into account the difficulty most seem to have with opening bank accounts, there appears to be a concerted move to push us to the use of agents even when we meet all the criteria and have done for years.

Trat. Up to Them init.

[Russell17au]

There is one thing that the OP fails to tell us and that is, is the bank account that the 50,000 goes into in his name only or is it a joint bank account? If it is a joint bank account then the IO is correct in asking for the account to be changed. This was not a problem when we could get Embassy letters but since that finished then this has become a problem that a lot of people overlook. How does immigration know he is married if he is on a retirement extension? Unless his wife's name is in that bank book. So he needs to either change the bank book or change his extension

[Lacessit]

22 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

They appear to be really trying to upset people, 4 excuses for "retirement" refusal that I can remember on.

1. Your bank account is not in this province, it needs to be in the province you live in (extension was granted provided agreed to change for next years application).

 

Did my November extension in Chiang Rai. The bank account with 800K is in Chiang Mai province, they could probably see it's been sitting there untouched for years. Not a word was said about changing the account to Chiang Rai.

Don't think they are trying to upset people, it's just the rules vary from branch to branch.

[DJ54]

Isn’t the money required to be in account with only person applying on the account? 

[Tanoshi]

16 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Isn’t the money required to be in account with only person applying on the account? 

It's meant to be in your sole name, but nothing in the requirements states your bank account has to be in the same Province as where you apply for the extension.

 

When I moved Province I had my account transferred to a local branch in my new Province, but that had nothing to do with Immigration, it was so I wasn't charged out of Province withdrawal fees.

[jensmann]

now. update.

went back to io with my wife today. my io not there. anotherone proceeded my application in less then 10 minutes, incl. 90 days.

ask for baht 2,000.

back in the car we take a deep breath.

phone rings: my io wants to talk to me. back in io he went outside with me and explained that i need 2 accounts. one for monthly income. one for deposit.

to make an "exception" he asked for baht 4,000.

given the timeframe and cost of a change to marriage, i had to except. 

so, you were all a little bit right. thank you for your support.

won't tell you my true feelings about the whole thing...

[2530Ubon]

13 minutes ago, jensmann said:

now. update.

went back to io with my wife today. my io not there. anotherone proceeded my application in less then 10 minutes, incl. 90 days.

ask for baht 2,000.

back in the car we take a deep breath.

phone rings: my io wants to talk to me. back in io he went outside with me and explained that i need 2 accounts. one for monthly income. one for deposit.

to make an "exception" he asked for baht 4,000.

given the timeframe and cost of a change to marriage, i had to except. 

so, you were all a little bit right. thank you for your support.

won't tell you my true feelings about the whole thing...

After reading your experience, and from my last terrible experience, I'm going to use an agent from now on. No more trips to IO - I never want to see there greedy little smug faces again, and I never want to sit in their dreary offices for hours on end again. At least yours was done in ten mins. In Ubon city center, you can wait for hours. 

 

Congrats for getting it done, and at least they didn't sting you for too much cash!

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, jensmann said:

now. update.

went back to io with my wife today. my io not there. anotherone proceeded my application in less then 10 minutes, incl. 90 days.

ask for baht 2,000.

back in the car we take a deep breath.

phone rings: my io wants to talk to me. back in io he went outside with me and explained that i need 2 accounts. one for monthly income. one for deposit.

to make an "exception" he asked for baht 4,000.

given the timeframe and cost of a change to marriage, i had to except. 

so, you were all a little bit right. thank you for your support.

won't tell you my true feelings about the whole thing...

With respect you were screwed because of your ignorance of being familiar with the requirements and they took advantage of that fact.

Had you stood your ground and asked where in the orders it states when using a combination of funds and income to meet the financial requirements, it states they should be in separate accounts.

They couldn't - because no such order exists.

[OJAS]

On 1/5/2021 at 12:02 PM, Moonlover said:

I was using Udon Thani for a few years and I found them quite helpful. Don't despair. ????

 

In the light of the OP's subsequent experiences as reported immediately above I think that Udon Thani can now be safely added to the list of rogue offices.

 

[OJAS]

22 hours ago, sandyf said:

I think there is some validity in what you say, the writing was on the wall when they gave preference to those on marriage extensions to return to Thailand.

There may well be a change in thinking and immigration would prefer for those that are married to be on a marriage extension.

That would certainly be a far cry from the times not so long ago when they were pleading married retirees to stick with retirement extensions on the grounds of marriage extensions causing more work for them. But maybe that is no longer the case as a result of IO's now needing to get their heads around the whole raft of changes relating to retirement extensions which have been introduced over the past couple of years? For example, they now need to check whether seasoning requirements have been complied with not just for the previous 3 months to the tune of 800k but to the tune of 800k for the previous 2 months and 3 subsequent months and then 400k for the remaining 7 months. Not to mention that Brits, Aussies and Americans using the 65k monthly income method can now only provide bank statements in place of Embassy income confirmations. And for good measure officers also have the complexities of mandatory health insurance for original OA visa holders to contend with.

 

So marriage extension applications could, indeed, now, on balance, prove a lot easier for officers to deal with?

 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

 

In the light of the OP's subsequent experiences as reported immediately above I think that Udon Thani can now be safely added to the list of rogue offices.

 

There have been a few incidents in recent times that indicate that their behaviour is suspicious.

 

When the supervisor knocked back my retirement extension, it was because my 66k a month income was less than 800k for the year. I'm sure he was trying to extract the shortfall under the table. But it backfired when one of his staff whispered 'go for marriage'.

 

My wife never liked dealing with that supervisor. 

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

With respect you were screwed because of your ignorance of being familiar with the requirements and they took advantage of that fact.

Had you stood your ground and asked where in the orders it states when using a combination of funds and income to meet the financial requirements, it states they should be in separate accounts.

They couldn't - because no such order exists.

I used to do retirement on the combo method and it wasn't a problem. In those days I had the embassy letter for the income and they just needed to see a balance in an account.

I have fairly recently done marriage on income and seeing how the transfers were scrutinised I can fully understand that with combo how they would prefer the supporting balance was in a different account. I provided the remittance advice from the bank and I saw them cross check each one with the statement, a neat 12 month statement on one page makes that so much easier.

There may not be an order but the question of presentation comes into play and at the end of the day they hold the stamp.

[Tanoshi]

28 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I have fairly recently done marriage on income and seeing how the transfers were scrutinised I can fully understand that with combo how they would prefer the supporting balance was in a different account. I provided the remittance advice from the bank and I saw them cross check each one with the statement, a neat 12 month statement on one page makes that so much easier.

Agreed.

 

28 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There may not be an order but the question of presentation comes into play and at the end of the day they hold the stamp.

Yes, but when you present an IO with a letter from the bank specifically stating only the monthly overseas transfers for the previous 12 months of over 70,000 baht each month, then the IO reaches for the calculator,  enters the 12 transfers, divides by 12, then happily announces you qualify, you really start to worry.

[Bradmeister]

 

OP,

 

Its a Shake Down ! 

 

Demand to speak to The Station Chief and get his phone number and full name. 

 

Dont play the part in this drama,  

 

All districts list the personnel for each immigrstion office.  Go up the chain of command. Just like any other country. 

[Thingamabob]

By far the easiest way to get an annual extension is retirement based on 'O' visa, backed by 800k on permanent deposit. 

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

By far the easiest way to get an annual extension is retirement based on 'O' visa, backed by 800k on permanent deposit. 

Retirement based on income in homeland,( no need to put any money in Thai bank, no  need to transfer monthly a minimun of 65000 ThB) is by far the easiest way for me. 

However not possible anymore for Americans, Australians, British. 

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, jensmann said:

now. update.

went back to io with my wife today. my io not there. anotherone proceeded my application in less then 10 minutes, incl. 90 days.

ask for baht 2,000.

back in the car we take a deep breath.

phone rings: my io wants to talk to me. back in io he went outside with me and explained that i need 2 accounts. one for monthly income. one for deposit.

to make an "exception" he asked for baht 4,000.

given the timeframe and cost of a change to marriage, i had to except. 

so, you were all a little bit right. thank you for your support.

won't tell you my true feelings about the whole thing...

So reports about Udon Thani being on the make are true then. 

 

Now in that situation, I would have definitely stood my ground and told him to <deleted> off! That's  bribery, pure and simple. Report it!

 

 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

By far the easiest way to get an annual extension is retirement based on 'O' visa, backed by 800k on permanent deposit. 

All very well for you to say so, but not everyone has 800k that they can afford to 'park up'.

 

And even if I had, I wouldn't. I'm damned if I would submit to immigration telling me what I can and cannot do with my own money!

[OJAS]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

I used to do retirement on the combo method and it wasn't a problem. In those days I had the embassy letter for the income and they just needed to see a balance in an account.

I have fairly recently done marriage on income and seeing how the transfers were scrutinised I can fully understand that with combo how they would prefer the supporting balance was in a different account. I provided the remittance advice from the bank and I saw them cross check each one with the statement, a neat 12 month statement on one page makes that so much easier.

There may not be an order but the question of presentation comes into play and at the end of the day they hold the stamp.

And the fact that the combo method is only available for retirement extensions could arguably now be acting as a further IMM impetus for retirees to switch to marriage extensions wherever possible - particularly in the case of those whose home country embassies no longer provide an income confirmation service!

[OJAS]

5 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

By far the easiest way to get an annual extension is retirement based on 'O' visa, backed by 800k on permanent deposit. 

All I can say is that those who sing the praises of this particular method of proving finances to the very highest heavens as being the best thing since sliced bread are IMHO displaying remarkable faith in the ability of Thai banks, with their generally rather-less-than-impressive track record on security matters, to keep 800k safely stashed away at all times from fraudulent pilfering hands!

[jackdd]

9 hours ago, jensmann said:

went back to io with my wife today. my io not there. anotherone proceeded my application in less then 10 minutes, incl. 90 days.

ask for baht 2,000.

An extension costs 1900THB, you should have asked for your 100THB change. Give them a hand and they want the whole arm.

 

9 hours ago, jensmann said:

phone rings: my io wants to talk to me. back in io he went outside with me and explained that i need 2 accounts. one for monthly income. one for deposit.

to make an "exception" he asked for baht 4,000.

given the timeframe and cost of a change to marriage, i had to except. 

You could have simply told him that no such rule exists and wished him a nice day, i doubt there would have been any problem with your retirement extension. Most people here are too scared of people in uniform. Now they found an easy target, so most likely next year there will be another problem with your extension, but I'm sure he will offer to solve it for you for just 10k THB.

[Moonlover]

31 minutes ago, OJAS said:

All I can say is that those who sing the praises of this particular method of proving finances to the very highest heavens as being the best thing since sliced bread are IMHO displaying remarkable faith in the ability of Thai banks, with their generally rather-less-than-impressive track record on security matters, to keep 800k safely stashed away at all times from fraudulent pilfering hands!

Do you have evidence in support of your claim regarding Thai banks? 

[Moonlover]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

An extension costs 1900THB, you should have asked for your 100THB change. Give them a hand and they want the whole arm.

 

You could have simply told him that no such rule exists and wished him a nice day, i doubt there would have been any problem with your retirement extension. Most people here are too scared of people in uniform. Now they found an easy target, so most likely next year there will be another problem with your extension, but I'm sure he will offer to solve it for you for just 10k THB.

I agree. He's been well and truly had, despite all the good advise he got here.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Agreed.

 

Yes, but when you present an IO with a letter from the bank specifically stating only the monthly overseas transfers for the previous 12 months of over 70,000 baht each month, then the IO reaches for the calculator,  enters the 12 transfers, divides by 12, then happily announces you qualify, you really start to worry.

"a letter from the bank specifically stating only the monthly overseas transfers for the previous 12 months"

I don't know which bank you use to support income, but mine will only supply a letter confirming the balance at that point in time. They will also supply a separate 12 month statement and if that statement is in respect of an only account it is likely to be multiple pages with the transfers all over the place.

[ubonjoe]

32 minutes ago, sandyf said:

"a letter from the bank specifically stating only the monthly overseas transfers for the previous 12 months"

I don't know which bank you use to support income, but mine will only supply a letter confirming the balance at that point in time. They will also supply a separate 12 month statement and if that statement is in respect of an only account it is likely to be multiple pages with the transfers all over the place.

I showed a example of the letter showing the 12 months of transfers to a bank branch here last year when I did my first extension using the new method to prove income and they said they could not do one.

I have used a bank statement twice but the account I use is only for the transfers into the country and then I transfer it to another account. Only 5 pages of statements to prove my transfers.

I would suggest anybody proving the transfers to set up an account for regular banking and the other for the transfers.

 

[KhunFred]

On 1/5/2021 at 12:39 PM, david555 said:

would  cost him more .... as another middle man involved than direct IO boss settlement ,.... long live the 800K on bank system  .???? never a problem arise in  8 years...no headache ever and flash serviced  ,and no agent needed ...... (as i do my own " legwork" ????..)

Fine......IF you have 800K.  I don't,  never did, and many others are in the same boat. We live on a monthly income. An agent is the only sane avenue for many of us.  A 15 thousand baht fee is extortionate,but the only option.

[david555]

10 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Fine......IF you have 800K.  I don't,  never did, and many others are in the same boat. We live on a monthly income. An agent is the only sane avenue for many of us.  A 15 thousand baht fee is extortionate,but the only option.

I understand ...some invested in their wife or gf house ..or the little bit smarter ones in their own condo foreigb quota ...

 

Each life has different ways to live it ...i play alway's on safe ...even if married i would never be at someone elses mercy to be legal in Thailand . First year i used also the combo methode with affidavit , but took care it would only once ...and that old system is no more as now they demand monthly transfers ...and even some stricter as OP expierianced .....

September 2022 i am out of here and taking my money with me ....as planned before in 2008 when i came ...not planning to die in Thailand ....toooo expensive ...???? no Anchors here neither makes it easy of course ...????

 

 

[OJAS]

16 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Do you have evidence in support of your claim regarding Thai banks? 

 

I personally have been the victim of fraudulent withdrawals from 2 separate accounts with 2 separate banks.

 

[OJAS]

On 1/6/2021 at 1:09 PM, Tanoshi said:

With respect you were screwed because of your ignorance of being familiar with the requirements and they took advantage of that fact.

Had you stood your ground and asked where in the orders it states when using a combination of funds and income to meet the financial requirements, it states they should be in separate accounts.

They couldn't - because no such order exists.

 

One of the great mysteries of this thread as far as I am concerned is that, given that his home country embassy have provided him with an income confirmation letter if his opening post is to be believed, why did he also feel the need to prove to his immigration office the income aspect of his combo finances through regular 50k monthly transfers from abroad? As far as his bank account is concerned, I seriously wonder whether, had he focussed exclusively on maintaining a minimum 200k balance at all times, he would have found himself in the predicament he did. All he would have needed to have done was to have made occasional (and not necessarily regular) transfers, if necessary, to ensure that this was the case - with no obligation to prove that these had originated from abroad!

 

[Baerboxer]

On 1/5/2021 at 12:27 PM, foreverlomsak said:

They appear to be really trying to upset people, 4 excuses for "retirement" refusal that I can remember on.

1. Your bank account is not in this province, it needs to be in the province you live in (extension was granted provided agreed to change for next years application).

2. You've used 2 separate accounts for your 800k, only 1 account is allowed.

3. Yes I know you have 800k in the bank, but I still need proof of your income.

4. Now your income needs to be in a separate account from your balance to make up the 800k.

All 4 to my knowledge are not written down anywhere and taking into account the difficulty most seem to have with opening bank accounts, there appears to be a concerted move to push us to the use of agents even when we meet all the criteria and have done for years.

 

Agents sort all the paperwork out ready for the IO's to rubber stamp. And show "their appreciation" as they normally jump the queue and maybe by-pass the odd rules here and there, according to some. 

 

Win Win for them. Just more expensive for the foreigner, but no one worries or cares about that!