Teaching English as a non native speaker?

[Bender Rodriguez]

On 1/5/2021 at 4:59 PM, Aurelien said:

Hi everybody,

 

Maybe this has already been answered if so, please link me to the relevant topic...

 

I'm from Belgium, and I wish to teach in Thailand. I have a Bachelor's degree in modern languages from University. Alternatively, I would also like to teach music (guitar) in Thailand.

I know that as a non native speaker, I will probably have a harder time finding a teaching job. Does getting a TEFL diploma helps?

Teaching online might be an option, but I can't legally live in Thailand if my job is teaching online, can I? 

Thank you very much and have a nice day

 

Aurelien

 

 

are you on top of all this FRENCH speaking ?

 

than the answer is NO -> aura RIEN

[jvs]

11 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

My tongue in cheek comments seem to fall flat here. I really must stop making them. ????

Some people get it!Flemish is just a kind of sexy Dutch if spoken by women.

[Bender Rodriguez]

for your info:

 

I went to see a government school where they teach also French, well, on paper

 

the 3 Thai teacher could speak French but with very strong non-native accent and communication via e-mail in French was even worse

 

the type of French you hear the african/arab community speak in Belgium

[PatOngo]

Why would you want to come to Thailand and live on barely subsistence wages teaching?

[BritManToo]

Just now, PatOngo said:

Why would you want to come to Thailand and live on barely subsistence wages teaching?

Depends what country you're coming from.

To some nationalities, the Thai teaching wage is very generous.

[transam]

11 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

Why would you want to come to Thailand and live on barely subsistence wages teaching?

The climate, and no daily bills on the door mat.....

[SomchaiCNX]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

because nobody outside a tiny part of continental Europe would want to learn it and the Thais will never have heard of it. 

Chapeau, at least someone who knows it exists. However the Flemish win most Dutch language competitions, they use less English and cleaned up a lot of French words. Before WWII most higher educations were only teached in French hence the reason why they cleaned up their written language.

Bayer in Pty still had a school (a couple years ago) that teaches in Dutch. The Dutch language requirements for integration (Thais married to Dutch) are very high. A couple Dutch language schools already exist (Isaan) to prepare those married to Dutch. With a little goodwill a Flemish person will be able to communicate very well with a person from South Africa who speaks Afrikaans. However on the other side if you listen to fishermen from Oostende 99% of the Flemish native speakers would need a translator ????

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, SomchaiCNX said:

Oxford English

What is this, RP?

[EricTh]

 

@Aurelien

 

TEFL is a waste of money and time, it's a money-spinner for those few TEFL schools in Thailand that charge exorbitant fees for a one month 'course' that doesn't teach anything except to give you one month of amateurish teaching experience.

 

The TEFL teachers don't really teach, they observe how you teach. I have TEFL and it's useless.

 

I've seen many TEFL teachers who don't even know basic grammar.

Edited January 9, 2021 by EricTh

[SomchaiCNX]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I assume you are talking about a matter of degrees and percent...

 

not being able to understand someone from Glasgow does not make someone w/a thick German accent a suitable teacher... that is just being better than horribly awful. 

 

as to so what - - would you pay a teacher who can't do simple math to be a math teacher for your children? Do you want your child to learn that 4+4 = 10?

 

If you are the person paying to have your child educated, would you not want someone who is competent to do so? 

 

Fluent: Fluency is a very high bar - yes, I can speak Thai and my pronunciation is ok - - but certainly I cannot do it well enough to teach it... nor would I try.  

 

Learning something incorrectly is very damaging... I would rather my child not learn English then learn it incorrectly - - and pay for it...

 

Is there some other service in life that you pay for that you would want it done incorrectly.. your car mechanic, a cook in a restaurant? 

You are right, that guy is not perfect but still better than most Thai English teachers I have met. Well, I paid a lot of money for my kids education with native (and non native) English speakers but the result was way below my expectations. When they moved to BKK and enrolled in the number one International University of Thailand their (spoken) English deteriorated very fast. The problem is that when not in the classroom they switch to Thai again. And sometimes a Thai prof would switch to Thai as some could not understand the subject (engineering) . Sending them overseas for a year or  more would help a lot. Another problem occurred when doing entrance exams for Thai universities. All the smart ones that switched to bilingual education had problems as their Thai was not up to the level of those who only studied in Thai. They lost a year but made it and are now finishing their last year of MD, Pharmacist and dentist. After all this is Thailand and the whole education system is so messed up that it really does not matter if that teacher is from Belgium or the UK. If you send them overseas they will have other problems when they return to convert their degrees. Teaching is more than knowledge alone it should be more like a passion or mission. I know nerds that are very knowledgeable but miss all the communication skills to become a good teacher. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by SomchaiCNX

[transam]

When I phone 3BB Internet about a problem, using "press 9 for English",  I am always met by Thai folk speaking perfect English and understanding my London English, so it seems there are Thai folk out there that have been taught well.....

[SomchaiCNX]

1 hour ago, PatOngo said:

Why would you want to come to Thailand and live on barely subsistence wages teaching?

You clearly don't know how living in Belgium is. 3 national languages, 6 or 7 different governments, a really divided society where mostly the minorities rule. The north more to the right the south (extreme) left.  When Trump talked about Brussels as a hellhole he expressed himself very nicely. Highest taxes and lowest pensions in Europe. It is perfect for those who are not of Belgian origin.

[1FinickyOne]

25 minutes ago, SomchaiCNX said:

After all this is Thailand and the whole education system is so messed up that it really does not matter

I had a business based in Central Pennsylvania for many years... the schools there are pretty bad too... 

 

I could guess that teachers are not paid enough to attract top talent... 

[SomchaiCNX]

Just now, 1FinickyOne said:

I had a business based in Central Pennsylvania for many years... the schools there are pretty bad too... 

 

I could guess that teachers are not paid enough to attract top talent... 

Like I mentioned before being a good teacher is not all about the money but of course it helps ????

 

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, Dagfinnur Traustason said:

There is no need or requirement to be a native speaker to teach a language at Thai schools. Although it might be preferred from many schools.

The only thing required is that you can meet up to the documents needed to work as a techer in Thailand.

I believe that the requirements are: A native English speaker or having a suitable score in TOEIC, holding a degree and a teaching qualification (TEFL is accepted).

 

Being able to spell "teacher" may help as well as some ability with the syntax of the language. That comment may be unkind, caustic even, and I appreciate (from your name) that English is probably not your first language, but you are discussing what is required to teach it!

Edited January 9, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[PatOngo]

31 minutes ago, SomchaiCNX said:

You clearly don't know how living in Belgium is.

You are correct, 100%!

[Muhendis]

32 minutes ago, transam said:

When I phone 3BB Internet about a problem, using "press 9 for English",  I am always met by Thai folk speaking perfect English and understanding my London English, so it seems there are Thai folk out there that have been taught well.....

Yes millions of them. They just don't live in my village.........

All the technically competent and international sales/business people have excellent English language skills as do the tourism people. The emphasis is on finding teachers  who would be willing to teach English in the provinces for less money than their worth.

[UTH001]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:23 PM, Pilotman said:

This is  probably not a popular view, but you should not teach English if you are not a native speaker/first language.  Teach French or Dutch,  but not English.  

Nope, it isn't a popular view. When I was in Graduate school, my fellow native English speaking students often asked me to check their papers for proper sentence structures etc. Just because someone is a native English speaker means little in regards to his/her command of the English language. Nor his/her teaching skills.

[Pilotman]

4 minutes ago, UTH001 said:

Nope, it isn't a popular view. When I was in Graduate school, my fellow native English speaking students often asked me to check their papers for proper sentence structures etc. Just because someone is a native English speaker means little in regards to his/her command of the English language. Nor his/her teaching skills.

well obviously.  You are making a self evident point.  

[BangkokReady]

15 minutes ago, UTH001 said:

Nope, it isn't a popular view. When I was in Graduate school, my fellow native English speaking students often asked me to check their papers for proper sentence structures etc. Just because someone is a native English speaker means little in regards to his/her command of the English language. Nor his/her teaching skills.

The highlighted sentence suggests that you are a native English speaker, but the rest of your post suggests that you are not.  Can you clarify?

[gamini]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:23 PM, Pilotman said:

This is  probably not a popular view, but you should not teach English if you are not a native speaker/first language.  Teach French or Dutch,  but not English.  

A lot of non-native English speaking people speak a lot better English than the average Brit here who seem to have a lot of different English dialects. I would   far rather have my children  taught by a non-native English-speaking teacher than  many of the Brits here.

[transam]

1 minute ago, gamini said:

A lot of non-native English speaking people speak a lot better English than the average Brit here who seem to have a lot of different English dialects. I would   far rather have my children  taught by a non-native English-speaking teacher than  many of the Brits here.

It was around 1988, a hotel on Malta, a German bloke starting talking to us in English, I said to him.."Was your English teacher from Birmingham by any chance"..?...."Well yes, how did you know"........????

[The Theory]

On 1/5/2021 at 4:59 PM, Aurelien said:

I know that as a non native speaker, I will probably have a harder time finding a teaching job.

Being native English speaker does not mean that he/she knows English or is qualified for teaching. Some of them even don't know how to write a paragraph with correct grammar.  ????????????  I've seen those while I worked at a college in CA (I was not a teacher/instructor). 

 

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

 

@Aurelien

 

TEFL is a waste of money and time, it's a money-spinner for those few TEFL schools in Thailand that charge exorbitant fees for a one month 'course' that doesn't teach anything except to give you one month of amateurish teaching experience.

 

The TEFL teachers don't really teach, they observe how you teach. I have TEFL and it's useless.

 

I've seen many TEFL teachers who don't even know basic grammar.

I have TEFL.

 

In my previous life I amassed plenty of experience instructing and lecturing/giving presentations. This meant that I was not in the slightest bit phased by standing in front of a class and speaking - something which bothered a number of the (younger} students on my course. - What my TEFL course gave me was a good grounding in the practicalities of teaching the language. I appreciate that not all TEFL courses are the same - I have particular reservations about the online courses!

[transam]

3 minutes ago, The Theory said:

Being native English speaker does not mean that he/she knows English or is qualified for teaching. Some of them even don't know how to write a paragraph with correct grammar.  ????????????  I've seen those while I worked at a college in CA (I was not a teacher/instructor). 

 

As a kid in England I failed my English O-level exam, I put it down to an English speaking Dutch examiner......????

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Why would you want to come to Thailand and live on barely subsistence wages teaching?

In my case, because my (meagre by UK standards) salary, coupled with my pension from my previous occupation, allows me to live a much better lifestyle, for significantly less hard work, than I could achieve in the UK. I also enjoy it.

Edited January 9, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[cdemundo]

Yes you can.

Helps if your degree is in education.

Yes a TEFL certificate helps.

Schools who accept non-native English speakers have conditions such as the following TOEIC test score with differing minimum scores from school to school.

 

"For non-native English speakers, must be a proficient user of English language: TOEIC (600 or more)"

[Pilotman]

27 minutes ago, gamini said:

A lot of non-native English speaking people speak a lot better English than the average Brit here who seem to have a lot of different English dialects. I would   far rather have my children  taught by a non-native English-speaking teacher than  many of the Brits here.

again, that is  self evident.  A teacher must be qualified and competent and a native speaker. 

[BangkokReady]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

It was around 1988, a hotel on Malta, a German bloke starting talking to us in English, I said to him.."Was your English teacher from Birmingham by any chance"..?...."Well yes, how did you know"........????

I once saw a YouTube video promoting the agency "TEFL Heaven" in Thailand.  The chap giving a "lesson" demonstration was Scottish with a thick accent.  He played a game with the kids and had them say things like "booht" (boat), "Caarh" (car).

 

I think you should at least try to put on a neutral accent if you're going to teach kids English.  Teaching them in an accent that people will have trouble understanding is pretty lazy and selfish.  It's also taking advantage of locals who don't know any better.

[Pilotman]

2 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

I once saw a YouTube video promoting the agency "TEFL Heaven" in Thailand.  The chap giving a "lesson" demonstration was Scottish with a thick accent.  He played a game with the kids and had them say things like "booht" (boat), "Caarh" (car).

 

I think you should at least try to put on a neutral accent if you're going to teach kids English.  Teaching them in an accent that people will have trouble understanding is pretty lazy and selfish.  It's also taking advantage of locals who don't know any better.

Proper TEFL training makes the point you are making very strongly.