Analysis - Trump's legacy: A more divided America, a more unsettled world

[Walker88]

Documentary film maker Ken Burns tonight on CNN:

 

"The Founders feared two things above all: the mob and an autocrat, and we got both".

 

Added historian Doris Kearns Goodman, "A President is judged by how he handles whatever crisis he was presented with, and those thousands of lights on the National Mall, representing the 400,000 dead Americans from the virus, are a symbol of 45's failure"

 

It was touch and go. If not for the bravery, patriotism and responsibility of a few people (GA SecState Brad Raffensperger, AZ Goc Doug Doucy), the US may well have lost its democracy. They stood up to the nonsense, to the conspiracy idiocy, to the pressure of death threats and 45, and did the right thing.

 

If 45 has left anything positive---and this is really stretching the meaning of the term 'positive'---it is that he showed the US where the bugs are in the system, where the backdoors are. He showed us that the US system is like a really early version of Windows, full of bugs and backdoors that hackers and people of ill will can exploit for harm to others and personal gain for themselves. It took a psychopathic, self-serving, corrupt, narcissistic, racist, fascist two-bit conman to point them out, but now we know where they are and we can look at ways to fix them and prevent any such madness and threat in the future.

 

The Founders were not perfect, obviously, but they seem to have known their own weaknesses and set a goal, an ideal, toward which the new nation would always be a work-in-progress. In one sense, as much as they understood human nature, they were slightly naive, or perhaps hopeful more than hope was deserved. By setting up a system where no one is above the law, and with three separate but equal branches of govt that would serve as checks and balances of each other, they gave the new nation the best chance of---as Ben Franklin said---'a Republic, if you can keep it'.

 

Perhaps the Founders did know that human frailties---as evidence never so clearly as in the flaws and faults of 45 and the republican leadership---could be the threat. Lack of character and integrity, actions that serve self rather than country, characterized both 45 and the republican party over the last 4 years. One branch of govt virtually disappeared (Legislature), save to stuff the courts and weaken that branch, too. The US got lucky. It almost lost itself. Again I say, if not for those few public officials who did their job in the face of the mob, in the face of death threats, the US might have been lost.

 

The US is not out of the woods yet, because the mob is still there. It's delusional, it bought the lies, and as was demonstrated so clearly on the 6th of January, the mob is violent. The threat remains.

 

The good news, however, is that 45 leaves broken, disgraced, a failure like no failure before, with no actual legal power anymore nor ever again.

[Peter Denis]

8 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I'm constantly amazed by people who start their post with "I'm not a Trump supporter, BUT....", followed by incoherent nonsense masquerading as "trying to be objective."  Who do they think they're fooling?  Only a Trump supporter can believe the lies coming from Trump and his enablers.  Don't hide, own it!

The completely unnecessary politization of the covid-19 situation has confused the issues greatly.

1. Why should it be necessary when voicing your opinion on covid-19, to precede it with your political stance?

2. Yes, I am NOT a Trump supporter.  On the contrary, I despise the man and everything he stands for.  But I am now finding myself between a rock and a hard place.

Because the one thing (and probably the ONLY thing) that Trump got right was his dismissal of the covid-hysteria/panic.  Of course he did that for the wrong reasons, but face-masks, lock-downs and asocial distancing the way they are practiced now, are an abomination. 

 

[ExpatOK]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

What video?  Having a hard time coming up with a credible link to back up your false claims? 

 

We're waiting....

Sorry, I forgot the link.  Thank you for waiting.

 

 

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

An interesting read:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/big-law-trump-untouchable-client-firms-condemn-business-2021-1

 

Trump is becoming an 'untouchable client.' Here's how law firms are turning on the president, from calling for his removal to dumping his business.

Can't read it, they want moneeeeey. Credible, because representing Trump is a reputational risk now.

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

14 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Not a majority, but yes, a significant percentage.  All blinded by the lies from the right wing fake news sites.

 

12 minutes ago, J Town said:

Thank goodness it wasn't a majority. However, STILL WAY too many!

 

Thanks guys! ????

Corrected!

[Jeffr2]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Can't read it, they want moneeeeey. Credible, because representing Trump is a reputational risk now.

Hmmmm....pops up for me easily?  I don't subscribe to that site.  But if interested, sometimes the NY Times does a $2 per month special for international readers.  Great research articles by them!!

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Sorry, I forgot the link.  Thank you for waiting.

 

 

I can't listen to a proven liar.  His time has come and gone.  Time to move on.

[Jeffr2]

6 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The completely unnecessary politization of the covid-19 situation has confused the issues greatly.

1. Why should it be necessary when voicing your opinion on covid-19, to precede it with your political stance?

2. Yes, I am NOT a Trump supporter.  On the contrary, I despise the man and everything he stands for.  But I am now finding myself between a rock and a hard place.

Because the one thing (and probably the ONLY thing) that Trump got right was his dismissal of the covid-hysteria/panic.  Of course he did that for the wrong reasons, but face-masks, lock-downs and asocial distancing the way they are practiced now, are an abomination. 

 

Face masks and social distancing are a fact of life now.  You do it not just to protect yourself, but others.  Don't be selfish.  We're all in this together.

[J Town]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

<snip>

Because the one thing (and probably the ONLY thing) that Trump got right was his dismissal of the Covid-hysteria/panic.

<snip>

 

No. He didn't dismiss it, he knowingly LIED about it. He even admitted this in a recorded interview.

 

When Obama came out and told the truth about Ebola, there was no panic cuz he behaved like an adult. Obama also listened to Dr. Fauci and as a result there was only a handful of deaths.

 

45 killed tens of thousands of citizens unnecessarily.

 

Why do people still defend this monster? Is it a 401k thing? I've asked this several times, no one admits it. Huh.

[J Town]

3 minutes ago, Dagfinnur Traustason said:

Thanks guys! ????

Corrected!

See 45 supporters! Adults can have meaningful dialog and we're all the better for it. Try it on for size.

[OneMoreFarang]

44 minutes ago, J Town said:

46 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

<snip>

Trump has won one thing, the title of the worst President in the history of the USA.

<snip>

And for this, Nixon and Bush Jr are forever grateful!

Yeah, remember the time when many of us thought it can't get worse than Bush. And that's not even so long ago. And no, I don't want to even try to imagine if there will be a time when we will think: Trump wasn't really that bad...

[J Town]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

I can't listen to a proven liar.  His time has come and gone.  Time to move on.

None of the MSM channels are going to broadcast this. The ONLY thing I've seen is him bragging about not starting a war. WHAT the HELL just happened at the capitol building? Hello?

[Jeffr2]

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/01/17/donald-trump-faces-an-array-of-legal-trouble-when-he-leaves-office

 

Donald Trump faces an array of legal trouble when he leaves office

 

His presidential immunity runs out on January 20th

 

The most serious trouble Mr Trump faces may be in his former home town, where the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus Vance, has been investigating several possible financial crimes, including Mr Trump’s alleged hush-money pay-offs to an adult-film star and a Playboy model on the eve of the 2016 election.

[bobbin]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

What is it about people on the right who consistently recommend videos over the written word? Are they emulating Trump's aversion to reading?

This..

 

Not often highlighted but often true. Trump supporters love a good propaganda video, the more outrageous the better.. I have tried to point out to the Trumpists that I know that many of the videos they insist on forwarding to me are produced by fringe individuals who are monetizing these conspiracy claims. The more views, the larger the eyes-on ad revenue.

 

The written articles I have attempted to counter with are never read. It's almost like reading is considered hard work and  these alt-right videos are like entertainment..

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, ExpatOK said:

Do yourself a favor and watch this video so you can develop a heart of gratitude for the greatest president ever. He lays out his administration's accomplishments in a clear concise way.

 

Look at the facts and let go of the hate.

 

Perhaps it's my own character flaw, but I will never have gratitude for a pack of self-serving lies and delusions. 45's silly video was full of both.

 

45 accomplished virtually nothing positive. Yes, he endlessly championed himself, but his claims are no more real than all of those golf championships and Nobel Peace Prizes he claims to have won or been awarded.

 

He wasn't close to 'the greatest economy ever'. Not even close. Even BEFORE Covid hit, fully 70% of all quarters since the end of WWII had GDP growth that bested 45's average. After Covid it's closer to 80%.

 

45 inherited 4.8% UE; he leaves at 6.7%, plus millions of 'discouraged workers' who gave up job searching and no longer count as UE, which economists place closer to 11% real UE.

 

45 inherited a $19.4 trillion National Debt and leaves a staggering $27.8 trillion, adding 40% to the debt in a mere 4 years vs the first 240 years.

 

45 maybe did not start a foreign war, but he aided by proxy the foreign war in yemen by supplying Saudi Arabia with weapons knowing full well they would be used in yemen, where up to a million children have starved to death.

 

45 did foment the start of what looks to be a civil war.

 

The sole 'equality' he might have brought is that by decimating US environmental laws, he might have given the entire country the water quality of Flint, Michigan, which is to say toxic.

 

As for 'respect', here's the numbers from Pew Research:

 

Confidence in US leadership, change from Obama to Trump:

↓76% Germany

↓75% France

↓58% Canada

↓52% Australia

↓51% UK

↓48% Japan

↓44% South Korea

↓43% Mexico

↑8% Russia

 

*These numbers are before the failed putsch 45 incited on 6 Jan and before he lied about the election

 

The US is lucky to have survived the "American Carnage" 45 wrought on it.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Walker88

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, kingdong said:

But to be fair,the last year of his term was  when the corona pandemic was raging.

And he did nothing about it.

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

 

“Trump did accomplish some useful things,” Richard Haass, a former senior State Department official who is president of the Council on Foreign Relations, wrote on the think tank’s website.

Some Germans until today note that Hitler gave Germans the Autobahn. 

[Pique Dard]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Analysis - Trump's legacy: A more divided America, a more unsettled world

yet trump (and his followers) doesn't see it that way " I didn't start another war" he stated in his farewell speach, meaning he views himself as being a pacifist

[Walker88]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And he did nothing about it.

Let's be honest: 45 made it worse.

 

He downplayed it from the start. He dissed the use of masks and social distancing. Until at least June 2020 he continued to refer to it as a "Dem Hoax", despite knowing full well how dangerous and contagious it really was (listen to the Woodward tapes)

 

It's a parlor game to guesstimate what the death total would have been if 45 had acted responsibly instead of trying to help himself and his 'legacy', but the experts in the medical community say it's likely a few hundred thousand more Americans would be alive today if not for 45's failure.

[jvs]

I am not a US citizen,what has happened in the last four years has affected the whole world

and the US has imo made more enemies.

Trump has put a stamp on anything US for the whole world to see and feel for many more

years to come.

The fact that disturbs me the most is that his followers can not see he did anything wrong!

It will take a long time and a whole lot of effort to bring peace to the US again.

The big question is,how to fix this?

Big part of the problem is the two party system,this results in;"you are either with us or against us"!!!! This is very bad,more parties are needed and that way there will be less division.

Next step,one person ,one vote.Makes the whole election process sooooo much easier.

There are more things of course.

Now before you jump all over me,yes my government also has many problems,they all do.

Go!

[kingdong]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And he did nothing about it.

And what could he have done?invented a vaccine for it?

[J Town]

4 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

No reason to try insult me with 'selfishness', when there is abundant scientific evidence (not based on 'models' but on analysis of the data of countries applying different strategies to tackle covid-19) that face-masks, lock-down and asocial distancing only provide marginal benefits (if they work at all).  The harm caused by applying these measures is totally out of proportion, and so I only plead for a return to sanity instead of tough stringent application of these measures without considering the full picture.

Face masks and social distancing cost NOTHING, are very much common sense, and to argue against them is selfish. I gotta tell you, Thailand did all three (including the lockdown) and for MONTHS there were no new cases. With an incubation period of 2-3 weeks, had there been any substantial outbreaks, we would have heard about them.

 

Tell the 400,000+ dead Americans that taking precautions is out of proportion.

[J Town]

2 minutes ago, kingdong said:

And what could he have done?invented a vaccine for it?

Oh, c'mon - that's outright trolling. It's already been established what COULD have been done about it. Wear masks, social distance, stay home if you can.

 

Why do you defend 45? Is it a 401k thing? I keep asking, no one tells me.

[Lacessit]

19 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The completely unnecessary politization of the covid-19 situation has confused the issues greatly.

1. Why should it be necessary when voicing your opinion on covid-19, to precede it with your political stance?

2. Yes, I am NOT a Trump supporter.  On the contrary, I despise the man and everything he stands for.  But I am now finding myself between a rock and a hard place.

Because the one thing (and probably the ONLY thing) that Trump got right was his dismissal of the covid-hysteria/panic.  Of course he did that for the wrong reasons, but face-masks, lock-downs and asocial distancing the way they are practiced now, are an abomination. 

 

Trump admitted to Woodward he had downplayed the severity of the virus.

Scoreline USA 411,000 deaths, 9.6 million active cases. Hospitals overwhelmed.

Thailand 70 deaths, 3168 active cases.

Australia 909 deaths, 1888 active cases.

Those statistics are the result of the abomination you complain of.

How misguided are you?

[Eric Loh]

7 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

No reason to try insult me with 'selfishness', when there is abundant scientific evidence (not based on 'models' but on analysis of the data of countries applying different strategies to tackle covid-19) that face-masks, lock-down and asocial distancing only provide marginal benefits (if they work at all).  The harm caused by applying these measures is totally out of proportion, and so I only plead for a return to sanity instead of tough stringent application of these measures without considering the full picture.

Countries that imposed strict lockdown and masking like New Zealand, Australia, Taiwan, Singapore etc seem to benefit immensely with fewer infections and deaths. Face coverings are now compulsory across UK with strict lockdown rules after infections and deaths spike. Surely that came from acceptance of science.  

[Virt]

If Covid-19 had not emerged, Trump would most likely still be president and in charge of a country with the lowest unemployment stasticics in 50 years and economical growth higher than Obamas. 

 

He dropped the ball big time after Covid-19 knocked on the door. 

 

Trump can only blaim himself for his loss and he should had left quietly, but instead he now has an impeachment to look forward to. 

Not the smartest move he made.

 

His legacy. 

Well it's not the best is it, even if he actually managed to do some good things for many Americans, even democrats in his 3 first years. 

 

Let's hope for a peaceful Wednesday... 

[Peter Denis]

20 minutes ago, J Town said:

No. He didn't dismiss it, he knowingly LIED about it. He even admitted this in a recorded interview.

When Obama came out and told the truth about Ebola, there was no panic cuz he behaved like an adult. Obama also listened to Dr. Fauci and as a result there was only a handful of deaths.

45 killed tens of thousands of citizens unnecessarily.

Why do people still defend this monster? Is it a 401k thing? I've asked this several times, no one admits it. Huh.

 

Please re-read my post (attached it again below), as it seems you completely missed my point.

1 - I do not 'defend this monster' > I actually despise him and everything he stands for.

2 - I wrote that he dismissed the covid-hysteria/panic for the wrong reasons (as he does with everything). 

3 - Your post is actually an illustration of the extreme and unnecessary politization of the issue.

 

30 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The completely unnecessary politization of the covid-19 situation has confused the issues greatly.

1. Why should it be necessary when voicing your opinion on covid-19, to precede it with your political stance?

2. Yes, I am NOT a Trump supporter.  On the contrary, I despise the man and everything he stands for.  But I am now finding myself between a rock and a hard place.

Because the one thing (and probably the ONLY thing) that Trump got right was his dismissal of the covid-hysteria/panic.  Of course he did that for the wrong reasons, but face-masks, lock-downs and asocial distancing the way they are practiced now, are an abomination. 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, kingdong said:

And what could he have done?invented a vaccine for it?

He might have:

 

Acted in the warnings he was given but ignored.

Promoted the measures the scientists who advise him recommended.

Enacted the defense production act to produce the materials, equipment and supplies  necessary to fight the pandemic.

Not promoted quack cures.

Not politicized the public health measures advised by the scientists employed to provide advice on public health.

Not undermined public health messages.

Not organized mass gatherings at which he and his followers refused to follow public health advice.

 

The list goes on.

[J Town]

There has been an obvious explosion on this topic. It will most likely be one of the last times we get to come together to discuss the lame duck traitor. I can feel the excitement in the air, on the air, around the world. We're putting a deplorable man out of office, hopefully forever. Even more, his sins will be exposed to the world very soon. My sincere desire is everyone will look at his crimes and admit what an iceberg of poop he is (credit to Jingthing for the iceberg thing).

Edited January 20, 2021 by J Town

[newnative]

    In 4 years he only succeeded in 1 thing--giving himself and the other super-rich a big tax cut so they pay even less tax than they should.  Wait a minute, I forgot.  He also succeeded in being such a terrible, terrible President that he was impeached not just once but twice.   Out you go, you old, washed-up grifter.