Biden swiftly begins sweeping away Trump's immigration barriers

[Peabody]

10 hours ago, Virt said:

<snip>

 

The migrants has to come to terms with living in a new country/culture and start assimilating.

 

I'm not saying they should give up their culture or religions and turn into copies of the locals, but they shouldn't try and make their new country into the one they left....

You talking about America or Thailand here?  ????

[EricTh]

 

I can see Trump having nightly nightmares and tossing in his sleep knowing that most of his policies are not being overturned by Biden.

 

 

[DrDave]

11 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

illegal alien definition 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/illegal-alien

So can we please stop calling those who enter the USA illegally as immigrants.

This is something that was instituted by the American media. The goal is confuse citizens by lumping both legal immigrants and illegal aliens into the same descriptive category in order to garner sympathy for the illegal aliens.

[Psimbo]

Barely had his feet under the table for 24 hours and already the tinfoil hat wearing Armageddon-ists on here are popping up.

 

You're doomed I say,  DOOMED.

 

Maybe in conjunction with sorting out the 11 (or 12) m illegals there is a plan within his proposed Bill for controlled immigration but that doesn't fall within the moon-howlers conjecture, does it? Goldarn uppity lefty liberal lentil eating sandal wearing Commie.

 

Oh, hang on- he's actually a Centerist. Guess they missed that.????

[DrDave]

1 hour ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

People who came here as literal children should absolutely be able to stay, but they should not be able to use their status for anyone or anything other than themselves IE bringing over the rest of their family. 

Nor should they be eligible for any form of public assistance before citizenship, just like legal immigrants. They've already gotten a free ride for education and medical care on the US taxpayers' dime.

Edited January 21, 2021 by DrDave

[candide]

57 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Here we go again with trump era BS. e.g. migrant crime rates are lower than for US citizens. 

And the most frequent crime by illegal immigrants is illegal entry/stay! 

[Mama Noodle]

6 minutes ago, candide said:

And the most frequent crime by illegal immigrants is illegal entry/stay! 

Forgery, Falsifying documents, identity theft...

[Mike k]

3 hours ago, wasabi said:

I'm a Florida resident and most of my money is in Roth IRAs withdrawn gradually at levels that place me legally below federal taxation, so this is not something I spend much time pondering. I am not happy or unhappy about the hordes of illegal immigrants. I am saying one way or another they are likely to take more than they give economically to the US and which is most likely to effect the middle class and have less jobs and resources available to them. Probably better to help these illegal immigrants in their own countries since natural resources are not infinite. But many people view this issue beyond simple math and want to "feel" they are doing the right thing. Primary reason I voted for Biden is my family purchases health insurance through Obamacare and I only trusted him to assure it continues.  I vote for issues that effect me personally, the rest is mostly theatre.

Obama care caused my insurance to go up I wish when the Republicans had control of the house and senate they would have done away with it not just the mandate 

[Masterton]

On 1/21/2021 at 10:09 AM, Eric Loh said:

 A simple progressive solution to the immigrant 'issue' is to stop thinking of them as a problem. Immigrants from deprived backgrounds then to work harder, try hard to integrate, bring special skills, pay their taxes and made serious attempts to integrate with the communities. There is really no serious arguments that demonstrate a long term damage to countries that accept immigrants. Canada welcome immigrants which enrich their economy and incidence of hate crimes decline. Biden is on the right track on this immigration issue by not demonizing them and seeking to work with the countries where these immigrants originate. 

 

 You have clearly bought into the media narrative which conflates illegal aliens who enter the country unlawfully, with legal immigration. This is too often used tactic by the left to deflect and build a false narrative. Here is what you also don't understand. American citizens, mainly black and other minorities, suffer the most due to unemployment and crime as a result of these poor hard done by culturally enriching angels seeking a better life. Please inform yourself instead of repeating Democrat talking points.

 

22 hours ago, dunroaming said:

The USA is a country made up of immigrants.  Everyone there is an immigrant apart from the original American Indians who were badly treated by the original immigrants.  Were the original immigrants there legally?  Were they invited?

 

The USA owes it's success to immigrants.

 

As above, you are conflating immigrants with illegal aliens. Additionally, the "original American Indians" were also "immigrants". Or did you think they were indigenous to the USA ? Their ancestors migrated from other places such as Mongolia.

 

21 hours ago, Mike k said:

Trump wanted to vet the immigrants the only group he wanted to keep out were Muslims.

 

That is patently false. Please inform yourself regarding the list of failed states that were no longer able to vet terrorists that the Obama administration drew up before Trump took office. 

 

20 hours ago, crobe said:

He also separated families and put the children into cages

 

Here we go again. More debunked falsehoods. Please inform yourself before repeating fake news narratives. Children were separated from parents to determine if they were related and not being trafficked, and was being done before Trump was president. The "cages" you refer to were actually in use and built during the Obama administration. 

 

These are matters of fact and not up for debate. Sigh ????

 

 

[placeholder]

17 hours ago, Masterton said:

Here we go again. More debunked falsehoods. Please inform yourself before repeating fake news narratives. Children were separated from parents to determine if they were related and not being trafficked, and was being done before Trump was president. The "cages" you refer to were actually in use and built during the Obama administration. 

 

 

You're lying.

 

‘We Need to Take Away Children,’ No Matter How Young, Justice Dept. Officials Said

 

The five U.S. attorneys along the border with Mexico, including three appointed by President Trump, recoiled in May 2018 against an order to prosecute all undocumented immigrants even if it meant separating children from their parents. They told top Justice Department officials they were “deeply concerned” about the children’s welfare.

 

But the attorney general at the time, Jeff Sessions, made it clear what Mr. Trump wanted on a conference call later that afternoon, according to a two-year inquiry by the Justice Department’s inspector general into Mr. Trump’s “zero tolerance” family separation policy.

 

“We need to take away children,” Mr. Sessions told the prosecutors, according to participants’ notes.

 

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/us/politics/family-separation-border-immigration-jeff-sessions-rod-rosenstein.html

 

3. “If you as a parent break into a house, you will be incarcerated by police and thereby separated from your family. We’re doing the same thing at the border.” -DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen

 

https://www.cato.org/blog/defenses-separating-children-parents-why-theyre-wrong

 

"I don't want children taken away from parents," Mr Trump said. "When you prosecute the parents for coming in illegally - which should happen - you have to take the children away."

 

Mr Trump said he wanted to "end the border crisis" by giving border officials the resources to "detain and remove illegal immigrant families altogether".

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44538110

 

Rosenstein: Zero tolerance immigration policy 'never should have been proposed or implemented'

 

Former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said on Thursday that the zero tolerance immigration policy briefly used under the Trump administration “never should have been proposed or implemented.”

 

Rosenstein's statement to The Hill came shortly after the release of a Justice Department watchdog report that was sharply critical of officials it described as the “driving force” in instituting the 2018 policy that resulted in thousands of children being separated from their parents. 

 

"Since leaving the department, I have often asked myself what we should have done differently, and no issue has dominated my thinking more than the zero tolerance immigration policy,” Rosenstein said in a statement.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/534310-rosenstein-zero-tolerance-immigration-policy-never-should-have-been

 

 

[crobe]

17 hours ago, Masterton said:

 

Complete and utter tosh, as to be expected from you. You have clearly bought into the media narrative which conflates illegal aliens who enter the country unlawfully, with legal immigration. This is too often used tactic by the left to deflect and build a false narrative. Here is what you also don't understand. American citizens, mainly black and other minorities, suffer the most due to unemployment and crime as a result of these poor hard done by culturally enriching angels seeking a better life. Please inform yourself instead of repeating Democrat talking points.

 

 

As above, you are conflating immigrants with illegal aliens. Additionally, the "original American Indians" were also "immigrants". Or did you think they were indigenous to the USA ? Their ancestors migrated from other places such as Mongolia.

 

 

That is patently false. Please inform yourself regarding the list of failed states that were no longer able to vet terrorists that the Obama administration drew up before Trump took office. 

 

 

Here we go again. More debunked falsehoods. Please inform yourself before repeating fake news narratives. Children were separated from parents to determine if they were related and not being trafficked, and was being done before Trump was president. The "cages" you refer to were actually in use and built during the Obama administration. 

 

These are matters of fact and not up for debate. Sigh ????

 

 

Stop your Trump lies - the truth came out when they finally allowed the lawmakers in.

Obama never put unaccompanied children in there.

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
flame comment / social media removed

[placeholder]

16 hours ago, crobe said:

Stop your Trump lies - the truth came out when they finally allowed the lawmakers in.

Obama never put unaccompanied children in there.

 

 

Well, the Obama administration did put unaccompanied adolescents in there rather than lock them up with adults. But small children were not separated from their parents.

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Masterton said:

 

Complete and utter tosh, as to be expected from you. You have clearly bought into the media narrative which conflates illegal aliens who enter the country unlawfully, with legal immigration. This is too often used tactic by the left to deflect and build a false narrative. Here is what you also don't understand. American citizens, mainly black and other minorities, suffer the most due to unemployment and crime as a result of these poor hard done by culturally enriching angels seeking a better life. Please inform yourself instead of repeating Democrat talking points.

Actually undocumented aliens commit crimes at a much lower rate than do native Americans. Some researchers at the Cato Institute did a study based on data from Texas, the only state which breaks down convictions by immigration status. They found that the conviction rates were lowest for legal immigrants at 535 per 100,000. For illegal immigrants the figure was 782. And for native born Americans it was 1422.

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-research-illegal-immigration-crime-0

 

[kingdong]

On 1/21/2021 at 11:20 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

The Democrats are not proposing open borders and never have proposed open borders.

 

The millions of undocumented immigrants in America is a reality that needs dealing with, leaving these people without a path to citizenship and/or worse still engendering hate against them is only storing up problems for the future.

 

Trump is gone, he can no longer munger hatred from the WH nor use the power of government to abuse immigrants, his parting act was to ignore the cries for pardons from his supporters who committed crimes against the state on his behalf.

 

God riddance to bad stuff.

 

And what sort of message does pardoning and giving  citizenship send out to people who broke tbe law in entering the usa illegaly send out!? soon find out when the 9,000 strong caravan reaches the rio grande.

[crobe]

17 hours ago, Masterton said:

 

Complete and utter tosh, as to be expected from you. You have clearly bought into the media narrative which conflates illegal aliens who enter the country unlawfully, with legal immigration. This is too often used tactic by the left to deflect and build a false narrative. Here is what you also don't understand. American citizens, mainly black and other minorities, suffer the most due to unemployment and crime as a result of these poor hard done by culturally enriching angels seeking a better life. Please inform yourself instead of repeating Democrat talking points.

 

 

As above, you are conflating immigrants with illegal aliens. Additionally, the "original American Indians" were also "immigrants". Or did you think they were indigenous to the USA ? Their ancestors migrated from other places such as Mongolia.

 

 

That is patently false. Please inform yourself regarding the list of failed states that were no longer able to vet terrorists that the Obama administration drew up before Trump took office. 

 

 

Here we go again. More debunked falsehoods. Please inform yourself before repeating fake news narratives. Children were separated from parents to determine if they were related and not being trafficked, and was being done before Trump was president. The "cages" you refer to were actually in use and built during the Obama administration. 

 

These are matters of fact and not up for debate. Sigh ????

 

 

Trump's legacy

 

"The efforts are part of a wide-ranging campaign to track down parents separated from their children at the U.S. border beginning in 2017 under the Trump administration’s most controversial immigration policy. It is now clear that the parents of 545 of the migrant children still have not been found, according to court documents filed this week in a case challenging the practice.

About 60 of the children were under the age of 5 when they were separated, the documents show"

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/us/migrant-children-separated.html

[placeholder]

Just now, crobe said:

Trump's legacy

"The efforts are part of a wide-ranging campaign to track down parents separated from their children at the U.S. border beginning in 2017 under the Trump administration’s most controversial immigration policy. It is now clear that the parents of 545 of the migrant children still have not been found, according to court documents filed this week in a case challenging the practice.

About 60 of the children were under the age of 5 when they were separated, the documents show"

There actually is no evidence that the Trump administration took any steps to verify that the children did belong to their parents. Masteron was just making it up. They repeatedly and openly asserted that separating the children was part of their zero tolerance policy.

[Jingthing]

53 minutes ago, placeholder said:

There actually is no evidence that the Trump administration took any steps to verify that the children did belong to their parents. Masteron was just making it up. They repeatedly and openly asserted that separating the children was part of their zero tolerance policy.

Exactly. We know for a FACT that the cruel policy was done intentionally to act as a DETERRENCE to try to prevent others from coming. Add to that the completely incompetent record keeping which it made it impossible to reunite in so many cases to this day. Right wing anti-immigration extremists can argue that such a cruel policy of deterrence is justified, but they can't act like that wasn't the reason for that cruel policy. That's a bridge over the Rio Grande too far. 

 

To add, I'm not suggesting that family tragedies and traumatized children didn't ever happen under recent previous administrations. Of course they did. But that's not the same thing as intentionally having a cruel policy for cruelty's sake. The former is more "mai bpen rai" while the latter is sadistic and evil. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Jingthing

[Scott]

A post containing false or misleading information has been removed along with a reply.  

 

 

[Jeffr2]

7 hours ago, kingdong said:

And what sort of message does pardoning and giving  citizenship send out to people who broke tbe law in entering the usa illegaly send out!? soon find out when the 9,000 strong caravan reaches the rio grande.

Deal with the mess the US created in Central America and perhaps these poor people won't want to leave their homeland. Which is what Biden is planning to do.  Trump canceled millions in funding to help these countries, thus helping to create the caravans.  Which were used to pump up his racist base.  Connect the dots....

[Jeffr2]

On 1/21/2021 at 8:03 AM, EVENKEEL said:

illegal alien definition 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/illegal-alien

So can we please stop calling those who enter the USA illegally as immigrants.

 

Congrats to Biden.  This term might be going away.  Makes sense.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/21/politics/alien-biden-immigration-law/index.html

 

Biden's proposed bill, if passed, would remove the word "alien" from US immigration laws, replacing it with the term "noncitizen."

 

The term "illegal alien," long decried as a dehumanizing slur by immigrant rights advocates, became even more of a lightning rod during the Trump era -- with some top federal officials encouraging its use and several states and local governments taking up measures to ban it.

Edited January 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
trolling comment removed

[kingdong]

51 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Deal with the mess the US created in Central America and perhaps these poor people won't want to leave their homeland. Which is what Biden is planning to do.  Trump canceled millions in funding to help these countries, thus helping to create the caravans.  Which were used to pump up his racist base.  Connect the dots....

I,m sure the usa meant well when they created " the mess "anyway perhaps trump thought the money would be better spent at home,cannot speak fou the usa,but britains foreign aid programme is a fiasco the money dosen,t reach the people who need it it gets stolen,could state quite a few things i witnessed in africa but whats the point?

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I,m sure the usa meant well when they created " the mess "anyway perhaps trump thought the money would be better spent at home,cannot speak fou the usa,but britains foreign aid programme is a fiasco the money dosen,t reach the people who need it it gets stolen,could state quite a few things i witnessed in africa but whats the point?

Meant well?  Do some research.  The CIA helped coups, supported violent leaders get into power, and of course, the dodgy stuff done by Oliver North.  All leading to the mess they are in now.

 

Trump had a policy of America First.  Sadly, he didn't understand we're part of a global society, global economy.  It's all connected.

 

Stop the problems in their home countries and they won't want to migrate to the US illegally.  It's a huge risk these poor people are taking. 

[kingdong]

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Meant well?  Do some research.  The CIA helped coups, supported violent leaders get into power, and of course, the dodgy stuff done by Oliver North.  All leading to the mess they are in now.

 

Trump had a policy of America First.  Sadly, he didn't understand we're part of a global society, global economy.  It's all connected.

 

Stop the problems in their home countries and they won't want to migrate to the US illegally.  It's a huge risk these poor people are taking. 

The usa with the cia and the Russians kgb did a lot of foreign interferance in the 70s & 80s since the collapse of the ussr this seemed to stop.you cannot keep going on guilt trips about what happened 40-50 years ago the changes in these countries can only come from within thru its citizens,you only have to look at what happened in cambodia and rhodesia after western interfering in the 70s.the people of the west are going to be facing some real issues due to this pandemic,so would advise anyone to think long and hard before making rash desicions with far reaching consequences.

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, kingdong said:

The usa with the cia and the Russians kgb did a lot of foreign interferance in the 70s & 80s since the collapse of the ussr this seemed to stop.you cannot keep going on guilt trips about what happened 40-50 years ago the changes in these countries can only come from within thru its citizens,you only have to look at what happened in cambodia and rhodesia after western interfering in the 70s.the people of the west are going to be facing some real issues due to this pandemic,so would advise anyone to think long and hard before making rash desicions with far reaching consequences.

What's happening in some of the countries in Central America is a direct result of the US's actions there.  It's no guilt trip, just reality.

 

And, Trump's cutting off funding to them, didn't help either. 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

I'm looking to take my Thai wife back with me in about five years. We can't stay in Thailand indefinitely. We both wish to advance our careers. I am a teacher, and you know how that is here, and she's got a great personality and experience in restaurants and hotels, being wasted on the meager wages here. The wave of incoming immigrants sounds like stiff competition, but not when they speak little to no English.

 

She can't believe the fact more can be made in an hour than most make in a day here. I keep looking at the job listings, and even in these Covid times, I'm seeing many retail openings starting at $15/hr open for weeks and months, that Americans simply aren't taking. This is likely because we've got recent generations feeling these are beneath them, with their BAs in either gender studies or e-sports. They've been making a strong case for immigration.

 

I understand Trump made the process more difficult, which Biden's now looking to undo, though this incoming wave may make it difficult yet again. We'll just have to see.

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

I'm looking to take my Thai wife back with me in about five years. We can't stay in Thailand indefinitely. We both wish to advance our careers. I am a teacher, and you know how that is here, and she's got a great personality and experience in restaurants and hotels, being wasted on the meager wages here. The wave of incoming immigrants sounds like stiff competition, but not when they speak little to no English.

 

She can't believe the fact more can be made in an hour than most make in a day here. I keep looking at the job listings, and even in these Covid times, I'm seeing many retail openings starting at $15/hr open for weeks and months, that Americans simply aren't taking. This is likely because we've got recent generations feeling these are beneath them, with their BAs in either gender studies or e-sports. They've been making a strong case for immigration.

 

I understand Trump made the process more difficult, which Biden's now looking to undo, though this incoming wave may make it difficult yet again. We'll just have to see.

There is no wave of incoming immigrants.  They are already in the US, working.  Biden's bill will just give them a path to citizenship.  There's good and bad to this.  And it's a very divisive option. 

 

What my wife found is yes, you can make more money in the US, but many things are massively more expensive there.  Like rent, food in restaurants, health care, etc.  Kinda offsets things.

 

Trump made getting LEGAL immigrants trying to get into the US more difficult.  Like trying to get your wife in.  Biden's looking to undo that, which should be good news for you.

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

I'm looking to take my Thai wife back with me in about five years. We can't stay in Thailand indefinitely. We both wish to advance our careers. I am a teacher, and you know how that is here, and she's got a great personality and experience in restaurants and hotels, being wasted on the meager wages here. The wave of incoming immigrants sounds like stiff competition, but not when they speak little to no English.

 

She can't believe the fact more can be made in an hour than most make in a day here. I keep looking at the job listings, and even in these Covid times, I'm seeing many retail openings starting at $15/hr open for weeks and months, that Americans simply aren't taking. This is likely because we've got recent generations feeling these are beneath them, with their BAs in either gender studies or e-sports. They've been making a strong case for immigration.

 

I understand Trump made the process more difficult, which Biden's now looking to undo, though this incoming wave may make it difficult yet again. We'll just have to see.

Maybe those $15 per hour jobs aren't being taken because people don't want to increase their exposure to Covid?

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

28 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

What's happening in some of the countries in Central America is a direct result of the US's actions there

United Fruit Company

School of the Americas

Pinochet in Chile

Iran/Contra

Just off the top of my head

 

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

What my wife found is yes, you can make more money in the US, but many things are massively more expensive there.  Like rent, food in restaurants, health care, etc.  Kinda offsets things.

Since coming to Thailand, my family's since smartly relocated from our previous, overpriced, failed coastal state, to a place out in the Midwest. Much more laid back and affordable. I've got qualifications to teach at university, which has an upward path, especially considering I'll be getting all these immigrants to teach, haha! Likewise I can see my wife quickly moving up from the initial $15/hr. I've worked a lot of retail in my younger years and know my managers, and could see them totally falling in love with her. Whereas in Thailand, there's not much of an upward path in this industry. Especially when they blatantly advertise in their job listings a maximum age of 30, which she's already well above.

[TopDeadSenter]

19 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

There is no wave of incoming immigrants.

"The head of the Honduran border police, Julian Hernandez, said more than 800 security officials had tried to stop the caravan at the Guatemalan border, but migrants pushed through the barrier, some using children “as shields.”

“We weren’t there with our arms folded,” he told Reuters."

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-immigration-caravan/update-4-guatemala-ups-pressure-on-u-s-bound-migrant-caravan-clears-road-idUSL1N2JT0VT

[polpott]

18 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Yeah thats the problem. No matter what you think about the other party, they are americans and their beliefs and votes matter just as much as yours. Importing millions of voters to bolster your base is a major power grab and the goal is to disenfranchise fellow american voters. 

 

THAT is not unity, and THAT is what drives extremism. 

 

 

Trump won Florida on the back of Cuban immigrants who had fled Cuba because they had been part of the Bautista regime (US mafia stooge) where they had controlled prostitution, slave labour and the casinos. I guess their criminality is excused because they vote Republican.