What options exist to show immigration that money came from abroad?

[Chang2]

Say that you are here on a tourist visa/visa exempt entry and you want to convert to a Non-Immigrant visa.  In order to convert, you have to show that the money came from abroad.

 

This is easy if you wire the money over using SWIFT.  A little code shows up in your bankbook that says FCT.

 

I was hoping that maybe using a Bitcoin exchange like Bitkub or coins.co.th would show up as an overseas transfer.  Alas it does not.  I'm guessing using something like TransferWise is the same thing; the money does come from overseas but it shows up as a domestic transfer because it's routed through their own network of banks.

 

Does anyone have experience using some kind of supplemental evidence that the money did indeed come from overseas when using a method other than SWIFT?  Say a screenshot of a Bitkub transfer?  Or a confirmation email from TransferWise?

 

My situation is that I am a U.S. citizen but living in another country and want to send the money from the bank here and doing it via my U.S. bank is really expensive given the double-exchange rate conversation as well as the fees.

[ubonjoe]

If the transfer is not shown as coming from abroad in your bank book or a statement you can get a credit advice from your Thai bank to prove that it came from abroad.

There is no requirement that funds came from your home country.

I assume you are applying for a 90 day non-o visa based upon qualifying for a extension of stay for retirement. I also assume your are using the 800k baht in the bank option.

[Chang2]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If the transfer is not shown as coming from abroad in your bank book or a statement you can get a credit advice from your Thai bank to prove that it came from abroad.

There is no requirement that funds came from your home country.

I assume you are applying for a 90 day non-o visa based upon qualifying for a extension of stay for retirement. I also assume your are using the 800k baht in the bank option.

Yes, to both questions.

 

So a credit advice, ok.  And the bank is prepared to issue these for any remittance or only specific sources, like TransferWise?

[UncleMhee]

Misquoted information

Edited February 9, 2021 by UncleMhee
Misquoted information

[Chang2]

<deleted>

Edited February 9, 2021 by Chang2
Wrong info

[1FinickyOne]

12 minutes ago, Chang2 said:

you have to show that the money came from abroad.

 

have the broad write you a receipt... 

 

Actually, I don't ever remember having to show where the money came from, just that the 800k was in my account for the required # of days... 

 

and people promote bitcoin as the same as money. Though, surely congrats are in order on your recent gains if you can access them. 

 

Enjoy your retirement. 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Chang2 said:

So a credit advice, ok.  And the bank is prepared to issue these for any remittance or only specific sources, like TransferWise?

A credit advice should be enough for immigration. It be obtained for any transfer. 

But in some cases if the transfer went to another bank here you may have to go to that bank to get the credit advise.

[UncleMhee]

@Chang2 Please note:- I've deleted my post because of misquoted info. I checked my bank book and recent transfers haven't shown as International.  Time to contact TransferWise again regarding this anomaly.

[Chang2]

1 minute ago, UncleMhee said:

@Chang2 Please note:- I've deleted my post because of misquoted info. I checked my bank book and recent transfers haven't shown as International.  Time to contact TransferWise again regarding this anomaly.

I have you beat.  I just found out I can't send out money where I am, I can only receive it.

[Chang2]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A credit advice should be enough for immigration. It be obtained for any transfer. 

But in some cases if the transfer went to another bank here you may have to go to that bank to get the credit advise.

I just found out I can't send money out using TransferWise, so that leaves me with Bitcoin.  My concern with a credit advice is that this is asking the bank to certify something which technically isn't allowed, which is converting Bitcoin from an overseas source.

 

This part of the conversation possibly belongs in another forum.

Thanks so much.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Chang2 said:

My concern with a credit advice is that this is asking the bank to certify something which technically isn't allowed, which is converting Bitcoin from an overseas source.

If the transfer came from abroad there should be no problem to get the credit advice. It would still be coming from a bank or financial institution of some kind.

[Chang2]

19 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If the transfer came from abroad there should be no problem to get the credit advice. It would still be coming from a bank or financial institution of some kind.

The issue though is that, at least once upon a time, it was technically illegal to sell BTC obtained overseas for THB in Thailand.  My understanding is that the Bank of Thailand wanted to control inflows and outflows and so forth.

 

From the coins.co.th user agreement:

 

Quote

8.1 The customer must agree to never exchange digital currency purchased from Coins.co.th for any currency other than Thai Baht. The customer must also guarantee that any digital currency the customer sells to Coins.co.th have never been involved in exchange with any currency other than Thai Baht. In such case, no matter what type of foreign currency was involved, your action may be considered as dealing with foreign currency payment, and fall under the scope of jurisdiction of Ministerial Regulations No.1:3 (1954), as specified by the Exchange Control Act (1942).

 

So what is this called?  They're not exactly calling it illegal, but still, getting a credit advice seems a little like a bank robber asking for a receipt; I'm asking for proof of something I don't necessarily want to admit I'm doing?  

[pentagara]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If the transfer came from abroad there should be no problem to get the credit advice. It would still be coming from a bank or financial institution of some kind.

It depends on whether Immigration accepts a statement from the remittance service (e.g. Transferwise) or whether they only accept a confirmation from a local Thai bank. Remittance service work like this: a. personal foreign bank account --> b. Transferwise foreign bank account --> c. Transferwise Thai bank account --> d. personal Thai bank account. From the perspective of the foreign personal bank its a domestic transfer to the Transferwise local account. From the personal Thai bank's perspective it's a domestic Thai transfer from the Thai Transferwise account to one's personal Thai account. Unless Immigration accepts the transfer statement from Transferwise, i.e. a non-Thai bank, I'm not sure who would issue said credit note. It definitely cannot be issued by one's own personal banks, since from their perspectives these are domestic transfers. The only hint that it was not domestic is that the money went to a remittance service, i.e. they know that Transferwise was the receiver (abroad) or sender (Thailand).

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Chang2 said:

So what is this called?  They're not exactly calling it illegal, but still, getting a credit advice seems a little like a bank robber asking for a receipt; I'm asking for proof of something I don't necessarily want to admit I'm doing?  

Are you using that bitcoin company to transfer your funds? The article linked is dated from 2013.

I cannot see a bank making a problem for the credit advice. If it actually came from outside of Thailand.

[scubascuba3]

This is old news but if you use Transferwise to send to Bangkok Bank and select the last description drop down option it will settle as International and be accepted at Immigration 

[Chang2]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

This is old news but if you use Transferwise to send to Bangkok Bank and select the last description drop down option it will settle as International and be accepted at Immigration 

UncleMhee had posted to this effect but when he went to look it seems to no longer be the case?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, pentagara said:

It depends on whether Immigration accepts a statement from the remittance service (e.g. Transferwise) or whether they only accept a confirmation from a local Thai bank. Remittance service work like this: a. personal foreign bank account --> b. Transferwise foreign bank account --> c. Transferwise Thai bank account --> d. personal Thai bank account.

The discussion is not about transferwise.

I am aware that some offices have a accepted the transferwise receipt for proof a monthly income came from abroad. The OP is transfering 800k baht to apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa at immigration so not sure they would be accepted for that.

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, Chang2 said:

UncleMhee had posted to this effect but when he went to look it seems to no longer be the case?

Definitely still the case I did it a few weeks ago. The thing to do is send a small test amount to check

[rodknock]

if you use transferwise on the reason for the transfer, the last one at the bottom of the list is "long stay in thailand"

i use it with bangkok bank and it always shows international transfer.

[Pib]

16 minutes ago, rodknock said:

if you use transferwise on the reason for the transfer, the last one at the bottom of the list is "long stay in thailand"

i use it with bangkok bank and it always shows international transfer.

Just a note: That only "only" works (i.e., getting the international coding) when sending to a Bangkok Bank acct.  If sending to another bank like K-Bank, SCB, Krungsri, etc., it does not work/does not result in international coding on your passbook when using the "long stay Thailand" reason for transfer. 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

If the transfer came from abroad there should be no problem to get the credit advice. It would still be coming from a bank or financial institution of some kind.

Not with Bitcoin.

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, UncleMhee said:

@Chang2 Please note:- I've deleted my post because of misquoted info. I checked my bank book and recent transfers haven't shown as International.  Time to contact TransferWise again regarding this anomaly.

It is only when using Bangkok Bank that the transferred funds will show up with the FCT-code next o it on your Thai bank-book (and only if the funds have been routed via Bangkok Bank headquarters to your local Bangkok Bank, which will usually - but not always - be the case).

But when you open your TransferWise account, and go to the overview of the transactions you made you can by clicking the ?-mark next to the transfer, create a PDF of the transaction that was made.

It will contain both the foreign source where the transaction came from, as well as your Thai bank-account where you received it.  And majority of Thai immigration offices do except those TransferWise receipts as evidence that the funds originated from abroad.

>> I did PM you a Guideline document on TransferWise, which addresses the issue of how to get hold of the evidence that funds originated from abroad (in case this is required by IO, like when using the monthly income transfer method, or first time application for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement).

[scubascuba3]

38 minutes ago, Pib said:

Just a note: That only "only" works (i.e., getting the international coding) when sending to a Bangkok Bank acct.  If sending to another bank like K-Bank, SCB, Krungsri, etc., it does not work/does not result in international coding on your passbook when using the "long stay Thailand" reason for transfer. 

I'm pretty sure on my recent transfer I selected "monthly living expenses" or something like that and it still came through as Intl, I can't see the full list to double check 

[Peter Denis]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'm pretty sure on my recent transfer I selected "monthly living expenses" or something like that and it still came through as Intl, I can't see the full list to double check 

Yes, even when using Bangkok Bank and selecting 'Monthly living expenses' it is possible that the transfer will not display the Bangkok Bank international transfer code FTC on your bank-book.

That code will be displayed when you selected that option AND when the funds were routed via Bangkok Bank Headquarters.  When you opted for 'fast transfer' when using TransferWise it is possible that the faster way of transferring them to your local Bangkok Bank account, was via one of their other partner banks in Thailand (Kasikorn and TMB). 

See my post above yours on how to get hold of the evidence that the funds of that transfer did indeed originated from abroad.

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Not with Bitcoin.

Do you have any proof of that?

[Chang2]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Do you have any proof of that?

The problem with Bitcoin is that, while perhaps the bank can see that the money came from a Bitcoin exchange, they would have no way of knowing where the Bitcoin itself came from; conceivably it could have been the user sending it to himself while never leaving Thailand.

 

You're right, that document I referenced is dated from 2013 and I'm doing searches here and on Google and though there is nothing that contradicts the decree it is very difficult to believe that I will be the first person cashing in Bitcoin for THB that didn't originate from an earlier BTC purchase using Thai baht.

 

A little easier to believe is that I'd be the first person to be busted for it though.  I might just swallow hard and take the exchange rate hit.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'm pretty sure on my recent transfer I selected "monthly living expenses" or something like that and it still came through as Intl, I can't see the full list to double check 

Yes that can happen regardless of reason for transfer selected if TW used Bangkok Bank as its partner bank to complete the transfer to a Bangkok Bank acct.  TW has 2 or 3 partner banks it could  use.

 

But if selecting the  Long Stay Thailand reason for transfer TW will if at all possible use Bangkok Bank as its partner bank to complete the transfer which results in international coding if being sent to  Bangkok  Bank acct.

[timendres]

A Bitcoin transaction will not be without friction. Transferwise neither. Since this is a one-off transfer, and evidence of its origin is important, I would bite the bullet and do a SWIFT transfer. The small hit you will take on the exchange and fees is worth the potential hassles with immigration - in my opinion.

 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Do you have any proof of that?

Do you know how bitcoin transactions work?

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, UncleMhee said:

@Chang2 Please note:- I've deleted my post because of misquoted info. I checked my bank book and recent transfers haven't shown as International.  Time to contact TransferWise again regarding this anomaly.

Which Thai bank do you use and what was your reason chosen for the transfer on TW's site.