Thai airways - what do you think will happen - refunds/credit advice

[SomchaiCNX]

3 hours ago, Peterphuket said:

If they don't go bankrupt, the only thing we can do is NEVER book anymore with Thai.

Your answer makes no sense, if they don't go bankrupt than they have to refund according to international airline guidelines. If they go bankrupt than they don't exist anymore, difficult to book tickets with an airline that does not exist.

 

[Morty T]

Bought 1000 shares @ 4 baht, you never know.

[Janner1]

On 2/22/2021 at 12:55 AM, mtls2005 said:

ROP Miles are probably worthless. Maybe use them to buy some old aircraft or fried dough?

Thai airways were / are part of the star alliance group so Airmiles with Thai should still be usable with other S/A airlines, just call one and ask.

Please let us know here the response you get.

[mtls2005]

7 hours ago, Janner1 said:

Thai airways were / are part of the star alliance group so Airmiles with Thai should still be usable with other S/A airlines, just call one and ask.

 

Good one. 

 

Maybe they're good for fried dough? A GE90?

 

 

Thai Airways suspends Star Alliance award bookings

 

Thai's Royal Orchid Plus members can no longer redeem miles on Star Alliance airlines or for hotel stays, a reflection of the airline's current financial anguish

 

https://mainlymiles.com/2021/02/15/covid-19-thai-airways-to-retire-a380s-a330s-and-747s-under-restructuring-plan/

 

https://mainlymiles.com/2020/06/03/thai-airways-suspends-star-alliance-award-bookings/

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by mtls2005

[mtls2005]

19 hours ago, kensawadee said:

I ALWAYS buy airline tickets with GOOD credit cards..... Good Credit Cards (American Express, Visa. Mastercard).... PROMISE YOU: If: you don't get what you paid for on the card.... WE WILL COVER YOUR LOSS.....

 

Meh. Urban myth.

 

You purchased a ticket from TG?

 

You obtained a refund?

 

Share details.

 

And which are the BAD credit cards? Do tell.

 

 

 

The merchant (THAI) needs to approve a refund/credit/dispute.

 

 

[kensawadee]

On 2/27/2021 at 6:20 PM, mtls2005 said:

 

Meh. Urban myth.

 

You purchased a ticket from TG?

 

You obtained a refund?

 

Share details.

 

And which are the BAD credit cards? Do tell.

 

 

 

The merchant (THAI) needs to approve a refund/credit/dispute.

 

 

I BS you NOT.... And NOT an Urban Myth.....

I have used my American Express to buy tickets (2 on China Airlines) and got refunds in the past year... I helped my Daughter-in-law fight Air New Zealand and she got a refund for family of 4..... BUT.... YOU MUST fight... Not accept their 'first replies'.... Keep up your demand... They get tired of your calls after a bit and go ahead with your refund.... If you are persistent ..... I owned a 'travel agency' for 15 years and I learned a bit..... In past years I have a American Express assist me in fighting a bill for $990 USD because of poor quality 'concrete' delivered to me by truck.... $990 they dismissed..... But I fight till the end (Unlike many of you)....

Because I live in America where 'People have rights' and credit cards Protect 'US' .... I cannot guarantee that your card in other countries give you the same protection... I question the credit cards issued in Thailand.... BUT .. Visa, Mastercard and American Express have somewhat similar 'benefits' worldwide.... So, I suggest you try harder, call your Credit card Company, even ask to speak to their SUPERVISOR as I often do... Ask what protections you have with 'their' card....

What country is your card Issued?

You must remember that you are dealing with 'BIG BUSINESS' (THAI and the credit card company) and they start by testing how determined you are and if you believe their '<deleted>'... Unfortunately...                   UP TO YOU, who wins.... 

But I work hard to win... and 'Often' it pays off.....

[kensawadee]

On 2/28/2021 at 10:15 AM, andy said:

If only it were this easy...

 

What really happens is if the bank that issued your card decides the window of time for dispute is closed, or that it doesn't fall under what they consider fraud, they can basically tell you to get f....d and that is the end of it.

 

"they can basically tell you to get <deleted> and that is the end of it."

Maybe for you it is the end..... NOT ME...... I will wear them out with my fighting and I will ask to speak with the 'TOP' (supervisor)...

90% (not 100%) it depends upon YOU .... occasionally there is 'small print' YOU overlooked... I always read the 'fine print' and don't continue after reading it..... But if I feel I am right I fight... They try (BIG BUSINESS AND THAI AND CREDIT CARD COMPANIES) to bluff most customers "AND IT WORKS SO OFTEN"

 

I have used my American Express to buy tickets (2 on China Airlines) and got refunds in the past year... I helped my Daughter-in-law fight Air New Zealand and she got a refund for family of 4..... BUT.... YOU MUST fight... Not accept their 'first replies'.... Keep up your demand... They get tired of your calls after a bit and go ahead with your refund.... If you are persistent ..... I owned a 'travel agency' for 15 years and I learned a bit..... In past years I have a American Express assist me in fighting a bill for $990 USD because of poor quality 'concrete' delivered to me by truck.... $990 they dismissed..... But I fight till the end (Unlike many of you)....

Because I live in America where 'People have rights' and credit cards Protect 'US' .... I cannot guarantee that your card in other countries give you the same protection... I question the credit cards issued in Thailand.... BUT .. Visa, Mastercard and American Express have somewhat similar 'benefits' worldwide.... So, I suggest you try harder, call your Credit card Company, even ask to speak to their SUPERVISOR as I often do... Ask what protections you have with 'their' card....

What country is your card Issued?

You must remember that you are dealing with 'BIG BUSINESS' (THAI and the credit card company) and they start by testing how determined you are and if you believe their '<deleted>'... Unfortunately...                   UP TO YOU, who wins.... 

But I work hard to win... and 'Often' it pays off..... (As with China Airlines and Air New Zealand)

[mtls2005]

1 hour ago, kensawadee said:

I BS you NOT.... And NOT an Urban Myth.....

 

So, in summary you have not purchased tickets from TG, and then obtained a refund.

 

Is that right?

 

And you've obtained a refund from a company which is in bankruptcy protection?

 

Is that also correct?

 

 

Look, we get that it is relatively easy to dispute a charge, and potentially get the merchant to issue a refund. Especially for those of us in/from countries with reasonable consumer protections.

 

I bought a ticket on Qatar last year, and was able to obtain a refund in ~ 10 days, when they cancelled a segment. (I had actually already paid that credit card bill, so no reason to involve them; just worked with QR directly.) I did not re-book, or take a voucher. 

 

TG's situation is abnormal, for a whole host of reasons. The Central Bankruptcy Court (will) control which creditors get what, and what expenses can be incurred. Jet fuel: OK, processing a refund: Not OK. TG's "recovery plan" may cover refunds, but I wouldn't count on it. They'll string you along with a re-booking or a voucher.

 

Yes, some people did obtain refunds early on.

 

[edwinchester]

This is what I found in my email this morning.

Seems my application for repayment has been objected to and further details have been requested despite filling in the entire online form.

I suspect because the travel agency is no longer trading they are not accepting my transfer of funds proof, bank statement detailing the transfer to the agency.

As for the debt calculation this was calculated using figures on their own upload pages so finding that hard to understand.

Feel as though I can kiss the cancelled family flights money goodbye from now on.

 

[mtls2005]

11 hours ago, edwinchester said:

Feel as though I can kiss the cancelled family flights money goodbye from now on.

 

I'm guessing you're a THAI creditor?

 

Can you share any details? Were you offered a rebooking or voucher?

[edwinchester]

32 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

I'm guessing you're a THAI creditor?

 

Can you share any details? Were you offered a rebooking or voucher?

Initially we were offered a refund or voucher when our flights were cancelled last March. We chose the refund. Then everything went quiet. Wait 6 weeks for refund we were told. Then Thai filed for bankruptcy protection and in Sept/Oct we got the email asking for claims from creditors. I phoned Thai and they offered a voucher and was ready to accept because I knew ticket holders are at the bottom of the ladder for refunds. Then the offer of a voucher was withdrawn when Thai realised we'd booked through an agency. That is further complicated as the booking was through a sub agent but the ticket was actually issued by an agency that has ceased trading. The sub agent, a good friend of my wife, has been trying to help but even she is finding it impossible to contact Thai other than by email and even then you just get an automated reply acknowledging your enquiry. It's one big clusterf***.

Will never pay to fly Thai again.

[mtls2005]

45 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

Initially we were offered a refund or voucher when our flights were cancelled last March. We chose the refund.

 

Yea, you're pretty much hosed.

 

The whole sub-agent, agent, THAI ladder seemed destined for failure.

 

Understand steering money towards a wife's "friend" (awesome for wife and friend, less so for you), who knows where your cash is now, but maybe best to book on an airline's website in the future?

 

What was the itinerary? Can the ticket be resuscitated and re-issued? TG is flying some routes now.

[edwinchester]

18 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Yea, you're pretty much hosed.

 

The whole sub-agent, agent, THAI ladder seemed destined for failure.

 

Understand steering money towards a wife's "friend" (awesome for wife and friend, less so for you), who knows where your cash is now, but maybe best to book on an airline's website in the future?

 

What was the itinerary? Can the ticket be resuscitated and re-issued? TG is flying some routes now.

Been using the friends small agency for well over a decade now with no problems and very good deals. The money made it to Thai, confirmed with Thai and tickets issued but then cancelled.

I fired an email to Thai last night asking for flights instead of the refund but who knows?

Yeah only using airlines own booking system in future.

Edited March 2, 2021 by edwinchester

[kensawadee]

19 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

So, in summary you have not purchased tickets from TG, and then obtained a refund.

 

Is that right?

 

And you've obtained a refund from a company which is in bankruptcy protection?

 

Is that also correct?

 

 

Look, we get that it is relatively easy to dispute a charge, and potentially get the merchant to issue a refund. Especially for those of us in/from countries with reasonable consumer protections.

 

I bought a ticket on Qatar last year, and was able to obtain a refund in ~ 10 days, when they cancelled a segment. (I had actually already paid that credit card bill, so no reason to involve them; just worked with QR directly.) I did not re-book, or take a voucher. 

 

TG's situation is abnormal, for a whole host of reasons. The Central Bankruptcy Court (will) control which creditors get what, and what expenses can be incurred. Jet fuel: OK, processing a refund: Not OK. TG's "recovery plan" may cover refunds, but I wouldn't count on it. They'll string you along with a re-booking or a voucher.

 

Yes, some people did obtain refunds early on.

 

Hey..... I am NOT making you any promises, and after your nasty replies I am hesitant to even suggest more to YOU..........

But my 'bottom line' to you is that 'sometimes' persistance and Hard Work pays off......I HAVE NOT been involved with Thai Airways.... AND I don't know your credit card is giving you the protection that I am accustomed to, so I can't offer specific help.... I can ONLY GUESS that you are spending more time 'venting' on ThaiVisa.com than you are spending hounding Thai Aurways and  YOUR credit card....... Without knowing all your details, I will guess that after sufficient work and waiting... You will get your money back.... eventually.............. Cheers, Mate,              May your rewards equal your efforts.....

[mtls2005]

3 hours ago, kensawadee said:

I HAVE NOT been involved with Thai Airways

 

Thank you for being honest. I assumed as much.

 

Thai Airways is in Bankruptcy protection.

 

 

I am not on the hook for any air tickets via TG. Just trying to advise those who are, while attempting to be realistic.

 

 

3 hours ago, kensawadee said:

I can ONLY GUESS that you are spending more time 'venting' on ThaiVisa.com than you are spending hounding Thai Aurways and  YOUR credit card

 

Of course your "guess" is wrong. Interesting that you think I venting by being realistic.

 

3 hours ago, kensawadee said:

You will get your money back.... eventually

 

Sorry, but no. People will not be getting their money back. They might get a few satang - assuming they filed the proper paperwork with the Court - on the baht, or maybe a voucher from TG. That's it. Someone is always left holding the bag.

 

 

[nahoj]

 

21 hours ago, edwinchester said:

This is what I found in my email this morning.

Seems my application for repayment has been objected to and further details have been requested despite filling in the entire online form.

I suspect because the travel agency is no longer trading they are not accepting my transfer of funds proof, bank statement detailing the transfer to the agency.

As for the debt calculation this was calculated using figures on their own upload pages so finding that hard to understand.

Feel as though I can kiss the cancelled family flights money goodbye from now on.

Hey. I think I got the same e-mail as you did. I booked a flight with THAI in March 2020. It got cancelled, I asked for the refund, then went to register as a creditor in the bankruptcy process. One difference with you is that I bought my ticket directly from THAI. Did you also get 2 pages written in Thai that are supposed to explain that "objection" we're facing? At this point I'm pretty sure I'm screwed and won't see my money again but I'd still like to read my sentence. I think there must be hundreds or thousands of people who received that same email we did so it would be of public service if someone could translate it. Unfortunately I don't know any Thai. Here's my copy of the document in attachment.

 

thai_airways_objection_to_creditor_2021-03.pdf

Edited March 2, 2021 by nahoj

[kensawadee]

8 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Sorry, but no. People will not be getting their money back. They might get a few satang - assuming they filed the proper paperwork with the Court - on the baht, or maybe a voucher from TG. That's it. Someone is always left holding the bag.

 

I understand that Thai is in bankruptcy....  I don't know about YOUR CARD - If it is a Thailand issued card then it may not offer protection the same as other countries cards.   In a similar situation MY CREDIT CARD COMPANIES give me a protection similar to 'insurance coverage'... That protection is basically that -- If you buy something using 'Our' credit card and you DON'T receive the service or the merchandise you paid for --Then you are not required to pay for the item, or can apply for a refund if you already paid for it....

I may not have any present dealings with THAI, But I have had many dealings with my credit card companies (Especially with 'online orders') and I have been given refunds in ALL the cases...

IF YOU DON'T GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR -- Your credit card 'should' cover your loss.    And I can anticipate some credit cards needing some pushing to give you that protection..... 

[treetops]

3 minutes ago, kensawadee said:

I don't know about YOUR CARD - If it is a Thailand issued card then it may not offer protection the same as other countries cards.   In a similar situation MY CREDIT CARD COMPANIES give me a protection similar to 'insurance coverage'

 

Most protection does not come the card issuer but from the payment processor, usually Visa or Mastercard and in some countries American Express.  The chargeback process usually used to recover money is a voluntary scheme agreed to by these companies and has rules applied to it, which I doubt you've circumvented by demanding for a supervisor.  Maybe they've just known the rules better than the first contact, if indeed your tales are accurate.

 

In some countries there are laws which can provide more protection than the voluntary chargeback process, but as I can't see an indication of your (or your card issuer's) location I don't know if these would be relevant or not.

[edwinchester]

13 hours ago, nahoj said:

 

Hey. I think I got the same e-mail as you did. I booked a flight with THAI in March 2020. It got cancelled, I asked for the refund, then went to register as a creditor in the bankruptcy process. One difference with you is that I bought my ticket directly from THAI. Did you also get 2 pages written in Thai that are supposed to explain that "objection" we're facing? At this point I'm pretty sure I'm screwed and won't see my money again but I'd still like to read my sentence. I think there must be hundreds or thousands of people who received that same email we did so it would be of public service if someone could translate it. Unfortunately I don't know any Thai. Here's my copy of the document in attachment.

 

thai_airways_objection_to_creditor_2021-03.pdf 3.7 MB · 0 downloads

Yeah I got the same.

I think it's a tactic to try and put as many people off by making it as frustrating as possible.

My response is I will never again pay to fly Thai Airways.

[mtls2005]

30 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

I think it's a tactic to try and put as many people off by making it as frustrating as possible.

 

Every creditor is subject to the same process. Whether you're out 100 million baht, or 34,000 baht. Even ROP Miles holders are considered creditors.

 

And they all have to complete the same paperwork. For the little fish, the paperwork is onerous, no question. And they don't give you much time. All that said, it's a bug, not a feature.

 

And even if you submit the paperwork you might get a few baht, in a year or two.

 

 

I'd consider the money gone, buh bye, and work to get a voucher or re-booking/re-ticketing.

[edwinchester]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Every creditor is subject to the same process. Whether you're out 100 million baht, or 34,000 baht. Even ROP Miles holders are considered creditors.

 

And they all have to complete the same paperwork. For the little fish, the paperwork is onerous, no question. And they don't give you much time. All that said, it's a bug, not a feature.

 

And even if you submit the paperwork you might get a few baht, in a year or two.

 

 

I'd consider the money gone, buh bye, and work to get a voucher or re-booking/re-ticketing.

Yep, I've discounted ever getting a refund but getting in touch with the office dealing with re-ticketing/vouchers is proving impossible right now. Emails get an automated response and nothing else and phone calls get the 'please press1' etc, you wait....and wait....and wait....and then get disconnected.

I'll never pay for another Thai Airways flight.

[mtls2005]

52 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

getting in touch with the office dealing

 

You have a record locator, six character identifier for the ticket. Can you look that up on TG's website, see if it shows, and if you can do anything there?

 

https://www.thaiairways.com/en_TH/before_you_fly/manage/my_booking.page

[edwinchester]

6 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

You have a record locator, six character identifier for the ticket. Can you look that up on TG's website, see if it shows, and if you can do anything there?

 

https://www.thaiairways.com/en_TH/before_you_fly/manage/my_booking.page

 

•  We are unable to find this confirmation number. Please validate your entry and try again or contact us for further information. (8104 - 1931)

Not really a surprise as the flight was cancelled a year ago. Still, you gave me 30 seconds of hope.

[mtls2005]

Starting to see some first-hand reports that THAI is extending open ticket validity through 31 December 2022.

 

https://www.thaiairways.com/en/contact_us/thai_special_assistance_form.page

 

https://www.thaiairways.com/sites/en_GB/manage/ticket_options_covid_19.page

 

 

[Heng]

Cascade failure.  I don't see how anyone would book flights on an airline so deep in the red.   You need to be solvent to run an airline safely.

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 2/22/2021 at 7:55 AM, mtls2005 said:

 

3 March. This is their third and last extension allowed, not that that really prevents another extension if I had to guess.

 

And who knows what's in the plan? Long-haul, discount? Short-haul (Asia/China), Y/J? Long-haul, full service? What do creditors get? Satang? Stock?

 

Really need to understand the OPs' itinerary. The flights may never return to the schedule, knowing the cities one could make a reasonable assessment.

 

For most, maybe best to just write off the loss. But if you can travel, try to re-build a ticket, without laying out too much more cash.

 

ROP Miles are probably worthless. Maybe use them to buy some old aircraft or fried dough?

 

 

 

 

 

 

March 3rd came and went, did anything change?

[mtls2005]

23 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

March 3rd came and went, did anything change?

 

 

What were you hoping for?

 

The plan was accepted by the Court.

 

Creditors meet on 12 May 2021 to "approve" the plan.

 

Significant aspects: three year debt moratorium, no debt forgiveness. So if you're holding any debt, be patient.

 

 

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

 

 

What were you hoping for?

 

The plan was accepted by the Court.

 

Creditors meet on 12 May 2021 to "approve" the plan.

 

Significant aspects: three year debt moratorium, no debt forgiveness. So if you're holding any debt, be patient.

 

 

 

 

3 years of hope. Thai is the gift that keep giving.

Will be interesting to see if some refund start trickling our way later this year. 

[mtls2005]

9 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Will be interesting to see if some refund start trickling our way later this year. 

 

Well, I guess anything is possible, maybe more will be known after 12 May. But if something is trickling on you it's probably not rain.

 

I'd push for a voucher or re-booking proactively.

 

 

[seajae]

I had tickets for internal travel with Thai Smile as well as Air Asia, both refused to refund and would only give a credit but neither has ever added the credit to my account, thai smile expires in a couple of months(only 12 months to use if I actually got it) and air asia expires next year. Have tried several times to get them to credit it back to me but so far nothing, my international travel with Singapore airlines was refunded last year and that was a hell of a lot more money, big difference in customer service, the thai airlines dont like to give back your money at all plus make it as hard as possible to even try to get anything out of them