PFIZER and AZ jabs enjoying spectacular success in UK among elderly.

[mommysboy]

And that's even with just one dose. 

 

Yet to be peer reviewed.

 

But what is most staggering is that this is on older age groups.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9278683/Nadhim-Zahawi-says-evidence-looks-good-vaccines-lower-Covid-transmission.html

 

 

[ukrules]

We knew it would work and work very well based on the trial data, this is not in any way a surprise.

[mommysboy]

43 minutes ago, ukrules said:

We knew it would work and work very well based on the trial data, this is not in any way a surprise.

 

Well, with the Pfizer vaccine yes, but remember this is real world data. Both are performing brilliantly.  It's the UK variant too.

[ukrules]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

 

Well, with the Pfizer vaccine yes, but remember this is real world data. Both are performing brilliantly.  It's the UK variant too.

You don't think they had any data for the AstraZeneca vaccine? It was approved after phase 3 trials with something like a 90% efficacy rating.

 

They spent all last year telling us it will likely be something around 60%.

[mommysboy]

28 minutes ago, ukrules said:

You don't think they had any data for the AstraZeneca vaccine? It was approved after phase 3 trials with something like a 90% efficacy rating.

 

They spent all last year telling us it will likely be something around 60%.

 

What annoys me is that many news agencies are still quoting 60% efficacy as if it was written in stone.

 

The vaccine has been so badly maligned that take up in Europe (particularly Germany) is dismal.

 

Effectively hundreds and perhaps thousands of lives have been lost because of scaremongering.

 

Macron, especially, should be called to account for what he said.

[ukrules]

34 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

What annoys me is that many news agencies are still quoting 60% efficacy as if it was written in stone.

 

The vaccine has been so badly maligned that take up in Europe (particularly Germany) is dismal.

 

Effectively hundreds and perhaps thousands of lives have been lost because of scaremongering.

 

Macron, especially, should be called to account for what he said.

 

It doesn't matter really, it's being rolled out across the UK, in less than 6 months time it will either prove to be a massive success with no COVID around or not, it's not that long and the results will be very obvious to everyone including Macron and his buddies over in the EU who will likely be about to start their next round of winter lockdowns.

[ourdon]

Perhaps

 

https://theconversation.com/herd-immunity-is-the-end-game-for-the-pandemic-but-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-wont-get-us-there-155115

 

Hopefully this is just an agency that has not got up to date information.

[mommysboy]

Just now, ourdon said:

Perhaps

 

https://theconversation.com/herd-immunity-is-the-end-game-for-the-pandemic-but-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-wont-get-us-there-155115

 

Hopefully this is just an agency that has not got up to date information.

 

Herd immunity is a holy grail imo.  It won't be achieved by any vaccine.  And as soon as a new variant comes along we're back to more outbreaks.

 

If you think about it, why we are so concerned with covid19 is because it has the singular ability to play havoc with the immune system. With vaccinations, it simply becomes another cold/URTI.  Better to concentrate on saving lives than dream of the unobtainable.

 

 

[Jaggg88]

2 hours ago, ourdon said:

Perhaps

 

https://theconversation.com/herd-immunity-is-the-end-game-for-the-pandemic-but-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-wont-get-us-there-155115

 

Hopefully this is just an agency that has not got up to date information.

The manufacturer disagrees with the author of this article

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-confirms-protection-against-severe-disease-hospitalisation-and-death-in-the-primary-analysis-of-phase-iii-trials.html

[RichardColeman]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

We knew it would work and work very well based on the trial data, this is not in any way a surprise.

Wonder of full Sinovac early trial data available or 'selective' ? 

[onebir]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

The vaccine has been so badly maligned that take up in Europe (particularly Germany) is dismal.

 

Effectively hundreds and perhaps thousands of lives have been lost because of scaremongering.

Apparently for the people in charge this is preferable to admitting they badly screwed up procurement.

[Jaggg88]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

Herd immunity is a holy grail imo.  It won't be achieved by any vaccine.  And as soon as a new variant comes along we're back to more outbreaks.

 

If you think about it, why we are so concerned with covid19 is because it has the singular ability to play havoc with the immune system. With vaccinations, it simply becomes another cold/URTI.  Better to concentrate on saving lives than dream of the unobtainable.

 

 

Real world data released today - looks like Macron will be eating his words

https://www.ft.com/content/20576254-422b-4545-91ab-20b4d005bbf3

[donnacha]

Strange the way things go.

The UK may now be the only European country that gets back to full economic functionality this year, with the three-month headstart they got by ordering early, and with no politicians hindering uptake by telling lies about the efficiency of a particular vaccine as part of a short-term political tantrum.

[mommysboy]

6 hours ago, onebir said:

Apparently for the people in charge this is preferable to admitting they badly screwed up procurement.

 

Not just that, some countries have spun such a yarn about the AZ vaccine that it simply could not now be rolled out since the uptake would be too low.  It's the same in the USA.

 

Meanwhile AZ and UK health authorities appear to have been completely vindicated on both its vaccine and the new first dosing strategy.

 

For balance of argument, it needs to be said that AZ vaccine may induce some quite nasty side effects - albeit temporary- in some people.  But I believe this is much the same with the mRNA vaccines. 

[cdemundo]

"real world data from Scotland"

 

I am not going to make any regional or ethno-linguistically insensitive joke about the geographic source of this data.

I am not.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

8 hours ago, Jaggg88 said:

Real world data released today - looks like Macron will be eating his words

https://www.ft.com/content/20576254-422b-4545-91ab-20b4d005bbf3

 

Can't access Fin Times due to paywall. Here's BBC report on the same:

 

Covid vaccines - 'spectacular' impact on serious illness

[ourdon]

8 hours ago, Jaggg88 said:

The manufacturer disagrees with the author of this article

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-confirms-protection-against-severe-disease-hospitalisation-and-death-in-the-primary-analysis-of-phase-iii-trials.html

I've done some info mining and it appears that the Auzzie article  deriding the efficacy of the Astrazeneca vaccine was wrong. I'm quite pleased that I (and the author of the article) were full of misinformation (aka bull3it).  It seems to be particularly effective with seniors.  Astz should be given North American release inside a week and J & J should be cleared within two weeks.

 

We can use all the weapons we can gather.  We have a planet to inoculate.

[mommysboy]

32 minutes ago, ourdon said:

I've done some info mining and it appears that the Auzzie article  deriding the efficacy of the Astrazeneca vaccine was wrong. I'm quite pleased that I (and the author of the article) were full of misinformation (aka bull3it).  It seems to be particularly effective with seniors.  Astz should be given North American release inside a week and J & J should be cleared within two weeks.

 

We can use all the weapons we can gather.  We have a planet to inoculate.

This is a key point. 

 

Nobody can claim herd immunity for their country, if the virus is raging elsewhere because it's under these conditions that variants emerge that may be resistant to existing vaccines- this has already happened in South Africa, where the AZ vaccine is regarded as ineffective (although I remain to be convinced).

[cormanr7]

7 hours ago, mommysboy said:

For balance of argument, it needs to be said that AZ vaccine may induce some quite nasty side effects - albeit temporary- in some people.  But I believe this is much the same with the mRNA vaccines.

Actually, the UK govt. reports the number of 'yellow cards'. These are obtained from a site where people can self-report side effects after COVID vaccination https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/. The data are not really very recent but for the period up to Feb. 7th, there were 3-4 yellow cards per 1,000 vaccinations for both AZ and Pfizer vaccines https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting.

Not sure how many people are actually using the site, numbers might be (grossly?) underestimated.

Edited February 23, 2021 by cormanr7
add sentence

[mommysboy]

41 minutes ago, cormanr7 said:

Actually, the UK govt. reports the number of 'yellow cards'. These are obtained from a site where people can self-report side effects after COVID vaccination https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/. The data are not really very recent but for the period up to Feb. 7th, there were 3-4 yellow cards per 1,000 vaccinations for both AZ and Pfizer vaccines https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting.

Not sure how many people are actually using the site, numbers might be (grossly?) underestimated.

 

I should have clarified that I meant less serious side effects that are nevertheless quite harsh, such as a high fever and nausea, which are temporary however. There have been reports that health workers in EU have found the AZ vaccine very hard to tolerate, although this could just as easily be a 'nocebo' effect. Thanks for the link.

[tso310]

On 2/23/2021 at 1:36 AM, mommysboy said:

 

For balance of argument, it needs to be said that AZ vaccine may induce some quite nasty side effects - albeit temporary- in some people.  But I believe this is much the same with the mRNA vaccines. 

I had my AZ first jab last Friday. Other than a sore arm no side effects. I know many people who have had the AZ jab and similar reports.

[bartender100]

Today's Bild, think I got the gist of it

[cormanr7]

In addition to data from the UK, results from a large scale study in Israel -which only uses the BioNTech-Pfizer vaccine- involving ca 600,000 people  have now been published (Dagan et al. 2021:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765. (At least) one week after the 2nd injection, effectiveness against various outcomes such as symptomatic disease, hospitalization, severe disease was in the range of 87-94%. There are lots more data, including effect of a single shot. For some useful comments and potential shortcomings of the study, check the following: https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-nejm-paper-on-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-roll-out-in-israel-and-covid-19-outcomes/

[LomSak27]

On 2/22/2021 at 10:55 PM, mommysboy said:

Herd immunity is a holy grail imo.

It certainly is a favorite ear-blather point of the amateur epidemiologist squad. 

Good news; Johnson and Johnson's vaccine is getting very good reviews and will help with availability shortfalls of the other vaccines, well maybe not here but ..  

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

It certainly is a favorite ear-blather point of the amateur epidemiologist squad. 

Good news; Johnson and Johnson's vaccine is getting very good reviews and will help with availability shortfalls of the other vaccines, well maybe not here but ..  

 

I'm curious why J and J vaccine can be billed as a one shot vaccine, when it appears to be basically the same as the AZ and SputnikV vaccine.   I guess we could call the latter 'one shot' too.

 

Yes, it is good news.  I'd say the best thing about the J and J vaccine is that it appears more resistant to later strains.  It does appear to have lower overall efficacy, but my guess is that with the right dosing strategy (probably 2 shot) it will be be very effective in the real world setting.

 

What the Europeans don't seem to grasp is that it's quite probable that vaccines will need to be adjusted in order to find the optimal dosing strategy.

 

For instance, by adjusting the dosing strategy it appears that the AZ vaccine has possibly become the best of the best for older people. which is ironic since it is banned for this purpose in many countries in Europe- that is INSANE!

 

J and J vaccine has a much greater role to play throughout the world than the mRNA vaccines for many reasons.  UK has 30 million doses on order and will show the world how best to use it.

 

 

[cormanr7]

32 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I'm curious why J and J vaccine can be billed as a one shot vaccine, when it appears to be basically the same as the AZ and SputnikV vaccine.   I guess we could call the latter 'one shot' too

Indeed. Well, once the 30,000 person ENSEMBLE2 trial is finished -where Janssen tests the efficacy of two shots rather than one- things may change. Trial details here:  https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04614948.

There are some differences between the three vial vector vaccines with respect to the vector used: chimp in AZ, human Ad26 then Ad5 in Sputnik and Ad26 in Janssen.

[Peter Denis]

On 2/23/2021 at 4:46 AM, ourdon said:

...

We can use all the weapons we can gather.  We have a planet to inoculate.

Yes, the Wet Dream for Big Pharma > vaccination for everybody, and to be repeated yearly to combat the new strains. 

Total business-driven madness...

[mommysboy]

19 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, the Wet Dream for Big Pharma > vaccination for everybody, and to be repeated yearly to combat the new strains. 

Total business-driven madness...

 

Without modern medicine I would undoubtedly be dead by now- and I am the slim, sporty, not so old, and have what is called 'good genes'.

 

You know full well that vaccines used so far in the UK have prevented 80-95% of hospitalizations.

 

Yes, it is regrettable that capitalism has such a sway on our lives.

[mommysboy]

52 minutes ago, cormanr7 said:

Indeed. Well, once the 30,000 person ENSEMBLE2 trial is finished -where Janssen tests the efficacy of two shots rather than one- things may change. Trial details here:  https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04614948.

There are some differences between the three vial vector vaccines with respect to the vector used: chimp in AZ, human Ad26 then Ad5 in Sputnik and Ad26 in Janssen.

 

Yes, therein lays their strength and weakness.  I've heard them described as 'workhorses' and that seems a perfect metaphor to me- good and bad.

 

I do think the J and J vaccine is really useful, and likely should form part of the arsenal in a country's vaccination drive.  I would be very grateful if offered it.  South Africa in particular will have a lot to be grateful for.  The best thing USA could do is roll it out immediately and make it the mainstay of its drive, as UK is doing with the AZ vaccine.

 

The only thing that frightens me (a bit) about the vector vaccines is the possibility of harsh side effects, which although temporary and clinically classed as mild sound quite nasty in a significant number of people.

[bermondburi]

Had my 1st AZV jab today. No complaints here.