U.S. Border Patrol arrests 4,500 migrants in a day, a major increase amid fears of surge

[WaveHunter]

2 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:

Don’t worry, they label me the same way. I point out a few shortcomings of the current administration—and they think I’m far right and a disgruntled Trump supporter.  Just a libertarian here, getting news and insights from WSJ, NY Times, NY Post and yes, Fox.  I guess they’re not used to playing defense.

It's pretty insane how emotional and irrational these people can get.  This hateful attitude of the Left towards the Right has grown since 2016 like a cancer, and the retaliation of the Right towards the Left has also gotten out of hand.

 

I say I am objective because I see the actions of both sides of the aisle as being incredibly destructive to the nation as a whole. 

 

My concerns are not with all of this silly Trump vs Biden ranting but with the fact that all of this infighting means that none of our politicians are really doing the jobs they were elected to do which is to preserve and protect our country.

 

Meanwhile, China's Communist Party (CCP) is steadily growing stronger and a force that we'll soon have to reckon with.  Are we even going to be able to do that if we continue being a divided nation?

 

History proves over and over that nations that become politically divided to the extent that ours is becoming, also become weaker in the process.  History also proves that weakness eventually will lead to war.  All I can say is...Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, Phoenix Rising said:

"My perspective is indeed objective."

 

No, it's not, and claiming that you are is frankly disingenuous.

 

"You and others accuse me of being blindly pro-Trump."

 

No, I haven't. Stop putting words in my mouth.

 

"With regard to China's CCP, are you not aware of their "Belts & Roads" Initiative? Are you not aware of their rampant intellectual property theft and cyber warfare efforts?  Are you not aware of what they did in Hong Kong and are now poised to repeat in Taiwan?  Are you not aware that they have steadily been building up their military infrastructure so that it now rivals that of the United States?"

 

Of course I am. Do you think you're alone in believing/knowing about this?? As an example I started reading The Economist in my early 20's and get my info from a great number of sources. And I'm certainly not the only one on this forum who keeps him/herself pretty well informed so maybe tone down the "I'm informed, you're uninformed" tone in your posts, OK?

 

"Trump may have his faults but he was the first US President to tow a hard line against China's CCP.  They hated him for that (just as you seem to) BUT they watched their step during his administration. 

And the same is true with North Korea.  trump tried diplomacy in the beginning and when it didn't work he imposed heavy sanctions.  Long story short, we did not have a nuclear exchange with North Korea as many Trump-haters firmly predicted.

Is it just a coincidence that as soon as Biden took office, China's CCP immediately ramped up their provocative and dangerous war games against Taiwan again, or they stepped up their aggressive and belligerent saber-rattling towards the US again?  You tell me!"

 

Is this the extent of trump's revolutionary China policy; all talk and bluster? Not very impressive at all and after 4 years what exactly has been achieved? Nothing.

As for President Biden he's only been in office for a very short time so judging his China policies already is premature in the extreme. You, as a student of history, should know this.

 

There's nothing disingenuous about my views.  They are based on first-hand observations (i.e.: Biden's disaster of a press conference), and unbiased public records (i.e.: Federal Record). 

 

I've also looked at a copy of the actual (5,000 page!!!) Covid Relief Bill only to realize what a sham it is.  Any bill that is 5,000 pages is intentionally designed to be as non-transparent as possible!

 

It's shocking to see that only a very small portion of the money goes to Covid relief, while a significant amount goes to things completely unrelated to Covid relief, such as bailing out poorly run Blue state governments with billions of dollars, only so they can go on racking up more debt through poor fiscal policy!

 

You may disagree with my views which is your right to do but it's an insult to call me "disingenuous" simply because you disagree with me, and I take offense at that!

 

Kudos to you for being informed about the CCP.  Too bad Biden is not as well informed or he would NEVER have made such an outrageous and irresponsible campaign comment ..."China's gonna eat our lunch?...C'mon Man" 

 

He also would not have been so ambivalent and uncommitted in his press conference about addressing the China threat.  That, to me, was totally unacceptable for a American President to do. in light of what's known about the CCP today.

 

To call the previous administration's efforts nothing but "talk and bluster" is grossly disingenuous.  Until the Trump administration, most people and country leaders were not even aware of what China was up to. 

 

The Trump administration did a lot more to counter the China threat than any other administration before him.  It was a lot more than "all talk and bluster" as you put it. 

 

Unlike Biden, who only takes a stand (and will often change his stand) when he knows it will get him votes, Trump had been railing about the China Threat for over thirty years, way before he even considering running for office, and all of that is verifiable in a google search

 

As President, he first tried diplomacy with China and when that didn't work, he imposed heavy sanctions.  You can argue that hurt the US, and in some ways it did, but it hurt the CCP a lot more, and the tariffs that were generated partially offset losses to Americans (i.e.: farmers).

 

Most importantly it showed the CCP that America was now aware of what they were up to and that we were not going to be a patsy anymore. We were now On-Guard and prepared to counter their threat. 

 

As Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, who planned the attack on Pearl Harbor reportedly wrote in his diary, “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.”

 

That's what Trump accomplished; he made China realize that our country now had the resolve to deal with their threat. 

 

Not only that but many other democratic countries took the example such as the UK and Australia, and around the world, countries are now aware of the very real threat of what was formerly believed to be benign-sounding things like the Belt and Road Initiative and the Confucius Institutes on college campuses.

 

If you fail to acknowledge these MAJOR accomplishments by the previous administration, then you are being grossly disingenuous and very far from being objective

 

When someone give absolutely no credit to the previous administration's accomplishments in things like the rapid development of vaccines, awareness of the Chinese Communist Party threat, peace accords in the Middle East, energy independence, and a whole lot more..that is not a fair and objective view of things.  It amounts to nothing more than subjective, blind hate.

 

I am NOT saying that the Trump administration was the best administration in the history of our country, but they did in fact accomplish many good things.  If you fail to acknowledge their achievements along with their failures, then you are NOT being objective and that would make your point of view disingenuous in a very big way

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Phoenix Rising]

30 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

There's nothing disingenuous about my views.

 

That's not what I said. What I did say was calling yourself objective while criticizing other posters for being subjective is disingenuous.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, Phoenix Rising said:

That's not what I said. What I did say was calling yourself objective while criticizing other posters for being subjective is disingenuous.

When other posters reply to a post of mine that has to do solely with Biden and doesn't even mention Trump, and then they defend Biden ONLY by pointing out faults of Trump without even acknowledging any of the accomplishments, THAT is a false narrative and is therefore disingenuous to the truth.

 

When a poster claims that Biden's press conference went fine when any rational person can clearly see and hear him making all sorts of gaffes, stating things that are patently and verifiably untrue, losing his train of thought countless times, and not even being able to deliver his message without reading it off his notes verbatim, to call that an objective assessment is most certainly false, and therefore disingenuous to the truth.

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Phoenix Rising]

2 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

When other posters reply to a post of mine that has to do solely with Biden and doesn't even mention Trump, and they defend Biden by pointing out only faults of Trump without even acknowledging accomplishments, THAT is a SUBJECTIVE assessment. 

 

When a poster claims that Biden's press conference went fine when any rational person can clearly see and hear him making all sorts of gaffes, stating things that are patently and verifiably untrue, and not even being able to deliver his message without reading it off his notes verbatim, that is a SUBJECTIVE assessment.

 

When somebody counters an objective assessment with a subjective one, that is disingenuous.

"When a poster claims that Biden's press conference went fine when any rational person can clearly see and hear him making all sorts of gaffes, stating things that are patently and verifiably untrue, and not even being able to deliver his message without reading it off his notes verbatim, that is a SUBJECTIVE assessment."

 

And that's a SUBJECTIVE assessment. What constitutes "fine" for you might not be for another person. Please don't dig your objective hole any bigger.

[WaveHunter]

30 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

"When a poster claims that Biden's press conference went fine when any rational person can clearly see and hear him making all sorts of gaffes, stating things that are patently and verifiably untrue, and not even being able to deliver his message without reading it off his notes verbatim, that is a SUBJECTIVE assessment."

 

And that's a SUBJECTIVE assessment. What constitutes "fine" for you might not be for another person. Please don't dig your objective hole any bigger.

Normally I'd agree with you that assessing how a press conference goes is subject to interpretation, but Biden's Press conference went way beyond anything I have ever seen from any President's first news conference. 

 

It was a train wreck that can not be denied in terms of optics.  He did not in any way sound like a capable and strong leader of the one of the most powerful countries in the world, and his false bravado at times just made it worse.

 

He came off sounding like somebody that can not be taken seriously and respected by other world leaders, especially our adversaries like Xi Jinping or Vladimir Putin.

 

I think you'd agree that the real significance of a President's first press conference is to prove that he is a strong and decisive leader, clear and simple.  That he has strong convictions and a strategy in how he will meet challenges, and do it OFF THE CUFF in a truly unscripted and free exchange between him and reporters like every other president has done in the past.

 

I saw nothing but softball questions from carefully pre-selected friendly reporters, and nothing but Biden literally reading scripted responses off of his notes, often not even making eye contact with the reporter, just reading his response verbatim and in a monotone and dispassionate voice.

 

My reaction to that was not subjective AT ALL, it was very objective.  I mean, that is NOT how a President should conduct himself. 

 

Is that how he is going to debate adversarial world leaders like Xi Jinping or Vladimir Putin?  Both of those leaders are already taking jabs at the current administration based on weakness and indecisiveness shown in press conference, and it's going to get a lot worse.

 

My criticism is about as objective as it gets because that sort of behavior is weak and indecisive by anyone's standards, and it has real-world repercussions!

Edited March 30, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Phoenix Rising]

12 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Normally I'd agree with you that assessing how a press conference goes is subject to interpretation, but Biden's Press conference went way beyond anything I have ever seen from any President's first news conference. 

 

It was a train wreck that can not be denied in terms of optics.  He did not in any way sound like a capable and strong leader of the one of the most powerful countries in the world, and his false bravado at times just made it worse.

 

He came off sounding like somebody that can not be taken seriously and respected by other world leaders, especially our adversaries like Xi Jinping or Vladimir Putin.

 

I think you'd agree that the real significance of a President's first press conference is to prove that he is a strong and decisive leader, clear and simple.  That he has strong convictions and a strategy in how he will meet challenges, and do it OFF THE CUFF in a truly unscripted and free exchange between him and reporters like every other president has done in the past.

 

I saw nothing but softball questions from carefully pre-selected friendly reporters, and nothing but Biden literally reading scripted responses off of his notes, often not even making eye contact with the reporter, just reading his response verbatim and in a monotone and dispassionate voice.

 

My reaction to that was not subjective AT ALL, it was very objective.  I mean, that is NOT how a President should conduct himself.  Is that how he is going to debate adversarial world leaders like Xi Jinping or Vladimir Putin?  Both of those leaders are already reacting to how he came off in the press conference, and it's going to get a lot worse

 

My criticism is about as objective as it gets because that sort of behavior is weak and indecisive by anyone's standards, and it has real-world repercussions!

Right, you go right ahead an continue to claim you're able to be useobjective but I can confidently and (dare I say it) objectively claim that not many people believe you.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Phoenix Rising

[johnnybangkok]

3 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

There's nothing disingenuous about my views.  They are based on first-hand observations (i.e.: Biden's disaster of a press conference), and unbiased public records (i.e.: Federal Record). 

 

I've also looked at a copy of the actual (5,000 page!!!) Covid Relief Bill only to realize what a sham it is.  Any bill that is 5,000 pages is intentionally designed to be as non-transparent as possible!

 

It's shocking to see that only a very small portion of the money goes to Covid relief, while a significant amount goes to things completely unrelated to Covid relief, such as bailing out poorly run Blue state governments with billions of dollars, only so they can go on racking up more debt through poor fiscal policy!

 

You may disagree with my views which is your right to do but it's an insult to call me "disingenuous" simply because you disagree with me, and I take offense at that!

 

Kudos to you for being informed about the CCP.  Too bad Biden is not as well informed or he would NEVER have made such an outrageous and irresponsible campaign comment ..."China's gonna eat our lunch?...C'mon Man" 

 

He also would not have been so ambivalent and uncommitted in his press conference about addressing the China threat.  That, to me, was totally unacceptable for a American President to do. in light of what's known about the CCP today.

 

To call the previous administration's efforts nothing but "talk and bluster" is grossly disingenuous.  Until the Trump administration, most people and country leaders were not even aware of what China was up to. 

 

The Trump administration did a lot more to counter the China threat than any other administration before him.  It was a lot more than "all talk and bluster" as you put it. 

 

Unlike Biden, who only takes a stand (and will often change his stand) when he knows it will get him votes, Trump had been railing about the China Threat for over thirty years, way before he even considering running for office, and all of that is verifiable in a google search

 

As President, he first tried diplomacy with China and when that didn't work, he imposed heavy sanctions.  You can argue that hurt the US, and in some ways it did, but it hurt the CCP a lot more, and the tariffs that were generated partially offset losses to Americans (i.e.: farmers).

 

Most importantly it showed the CCP that America was now aware of what they were up to and that we were not going to be a patsy anymore. We were now On-Guard and prepared to counter their threat. 

 

As Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, who planned the attack on Pearl Harbor reportedly wrote in his diary, “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.”

 

That's what Trump accomplished; he made China realize that our country now had the resolve to deal with their threat. 

 

Not only that but many other democratic countries took the example such as the UK and Australia, and around the world, countries are now aware of the very real threat of what was formerly believed to be benign-sounding things like the Belt and Road Initiative and the Confucius Institutes on college campuses.

 

If you fail to acknowledge these MAJOR accomplishments by the previous administration, then you are being grossly disingenuous and very far from being objective

 

When someone give absolutely no credit to the previous administration's accomplishments in things like the rapid development of vaccines, awareness of the Chinese Communist Party threat, peace accords in the Middle East, energy independence, and a whole lot more..that is not a fair and objective view of things.  It amounts to nothing more than subjective, blind hate.

 

I am NOT saying that the Trump administration was the best administration in the history of our country, but they did in fact accomplish many good things.  If you fail to acknowledge their achievements along with their failures, then you are NOT being objective and that would make your point of view disingenuous in a very big way

 

You attempt to paint yourself as some objective warrior, only here to seek the truth and hold those in charge accountable but in an impartial and unbiased manner is anything but what you are doing. You give credit to Trump and his administrations when none is due whilst attacking the new administration for perceived failings after all of 3 months in. Let's take the subjects you give Trump credit for:-

 

The Rapid development of vaccines

As has been pointed out to you many, many times on other threads, Pfizer didn’t receive any funding from Operation Warp Speed for the development, clinical trial and manufacturing of the vaccine. Rather, its partner, BioNTech SE, received money.... from the German government. However Moderna did to the tune of $1 billion. The best you can say of Trump is he managed to get out of the way of commercial enterprises doing what they would have done anyway (and he obviously had nothing to do with the AZ, Sputnik and Chinese vacines).

 

Awareness of the Chinese Communist Party threat

Taking a purely economic view, the Trump administration policy of America first (as opposed to previous administrations attempts to integrate China into the international community) focused on China protectionism, currency manipulation, the trade deficit and intellectual property rights. Nothing was achieved by the Trump administration and in fact the trade deficit of $346 billion in 2016 grew to $678 billion by the end of 2020 simply because the most basics of economic reasoning, supply and demand seems to be beyond Trump and his administration.

 

Peace accords in the Middle East

The Trump peace plan, officially titled "Peace to Prosperity: A Vision to Improve the Lives of the Palestinian and Israeli People" acheived absolutely nothing other than to give Israel more of what they wanted and the Palestians absolutely nothing of what they wanted. 

They achieved some success by getting the UAE and Bahrain to agree to normalise its relationship with Israel but since both the UAE and Bahrain are minor players in the Middle East, the agreements are not exactly revolutionary.

 

Energy independence

Considering the US was 86% to 91% self-sufficient BEFORE Trump rose to power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_energy_independence) it is disingenuos to put that as his achievemnet.

 

Illegal Immigration

The topic in hand. 

Trump did very little to mitigate any illegal immigration because focusing on the wall was only a dog whistle to his racist and xenaphobic followers and was always known to never be a viable solution as:-

1. the vast majority of illegal immigrants to the US are visa overstayers, who arrive BY PLANE and just don't leave.

2. the southern border is so vast that it is literally impossible to build a wall along the length of it.

3. if you are at all serious about stopping illegal immigration, go for the employers who profit from these people. If there's no demand, the supply will soon dry up.

 

Biden (like all that have come before him) will not solve the problem of illegal immigration but at least he will try to do it in a humane and legal manner.  The Trump administration decided to charge everyone crossing the border with illegal entry rather than as asylum seekers. Human rights organizations, including the United Nations, rightly argued that this violated international law as it allowed his administration to charge them in criminal court rather than waiting to see if they qualify for asylum. Migrants who’ve been referred for criminal prosecution get sent to a federal jail and brought before a federal judge and that’s where family separations happened — because you can’t be kept with your children in a federal jail. 

 

Perhaps there is a crisis, perhaps there isn't. Perhaps there are mitigating circumstances for the 'surge' (time of the year, weather conditions, increased political disparity) perhaps there are not, but to come at the Biden administration after only 3 months with your extreme thoughts on what is happening here and the validity of Biden on not just this subject but the world stage IS disingenuos and reeks of partizan politics (despite your loudest protests) and I for one am not convinced of the independent credentials you are so desperately pushing. So do us all a favour, admit you never liked the guy in the first place, didn't want him as POTUS and will do everything to bring him to task no matter what the subject.

 

At least that will be honest.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by johnnybangkok

[WaveHunter]

20 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

You attempt to paint yourself as some objective warrior, only here to seek the truth and hold those in charge accountable but in an impartial and unbiased manner is anything but what you are doing. You give credit to Trump and his administrations when none is due whilst attacking the new administration for perceived failings after all of 3 months in. Let's take the subjects you give Trump credit for:-

 

The Rapid development of vaccines

As has been pointed out to you many, many times on other threads, Pfizer didn’t receive any funding from Operation Warp Speed for the development, clinical trial and manufacturing of the vaccine. Rather, its partner, BioNTech SE, received money.... from the German government. However Moderna did to the tune of $1 billion. The best you can say of Trump is he managed to get out of the way of commercial enterprises doing what they would have done anyway (and he obviously had nothing to do with the AZ, Sputnik and Chinese vacines).

 

Awareness of the Chinese Communist Party threat

Taking a purely economic view, the Trump administration policy of America first (as opposed to previous administrations attempts to integrate China into the international community) focused on China protectionism, currency manipulation, the trade deficit and intellectual property rights. Nothing was achieved by the Trump administration and in fact the trade deficit of $346 billion in 2016 grew to $678 billion by the end of 2020 simply because the most basics of economic reasoning, supply and demand seems to be beyond Trump and his administration.

 

Peace accords in the Middle East

The Trump peace plan, officially titled "Peace to Prosperity: A Vision to Improve the Lives of the Palestinian and Israeli People" acheived absolutely nothing other than to give Israel more of what they wanted and the Palestians absolutely nothing of what they wanted. 

They achieved some success by getting the UAE and Bahrain to agree to normalise its relationship with Israel but since both the UAE and Bahrain are minor players in the Middle East, the agreements are not exactly revolutionary.

 

Energy independence

Considering the US was 86% to 91% self-sufficient BEFORE Trump rose to power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_energy_independence) it is disingenuos to put that as his achievemnet.

 

Illegal Immigration

The topic in hand. 

Trump did very little to mitigate any illegal immigration because focusing on the wall was only a dog whistle to his racist and xenaphobic followers and was always known to never be a viable solution as:-

1. the vast majority of illegal immigrants to the US are visa overstayers, who arrive BY PLANE and just don't leave.

2. the southern border is so vast that it is literally impossible to build a wall along the length of it.

3. if you are at all serious about stopping illegal immigration, go for the employers who profit from these people. If there's no demand, the supply will soon dry up.

 

Biden (like all that have come before him) will not solve the problem of illegal immigration but at least he will try to do it in a humane and legal manner.  The Trump administration decided to charge everyone crossing the border with illegal entry rather than as asylum seekers. Human rights organizations, including the United Nations, rightly argued that this violated international law as it allowed his administration to charge them in criminal court rather than waiting to see if they qualify for asylum. Migrants who’ve been referred for criminal prosecution get sent to a federal jail and brought before a federal judge and that’s where family separations happened — because you can’t be kept with your children in a federal jail. 

 

Perhaps there is a crisis, perhaps there isn't. Perhaps there are mitigating circumstances for the 'surge' (time of the year, weather conditions, increased political disparity) perhaps there are not, but to come at the Biden administration after only 3 months with your extreme thoughts on what is happening here and the validity of Biden on not just this subject but the world stage IS disingenuos and reeks of partizan politics (despite your loudest protests) and I for one am not convinced of the independent credentials you are so desperately pushing. So do us all a favour, admit you never liked the guy in the first place, didn't want him as POTUS and will do everything to bring him to task no matter what the subject.

 

At least that will be honest.  

 

While your arguments are well articulated, they are only your personal opinions, NOT the final word.  Just as many Americans have opposing views to yours as there are people who agree with your perspective on the topics you listed.

 

Just as many Americans are genuinely concerned about Biden's ability to lead the nation as there are people who think he's doing a good job at this point of his administration. 

 

You and other extreme Leftists (or extreme Rightest) never acknowledge the simple fact that these issues are not black and white but varying shades of gray, and therefore ALL viewpoints are valid and should be acknowledged and respected, not aggressively be shouted down.

 

Respecting the viewpoints of ALL peoples is what separates a democracy from an autocracy! 

 

Intelligent, respectful and open debates are the answer, not personal attacks towards anyone who disagrees with you.

 

WHen you express your viewpoint as the Final word, and vehemently attack anyone who's viewpoint differs from your own and try to shout them down, you are simply acting as a bully, and nothing more.

 

I have never done that in my posts.  I have clearly stated my viewpoints as my PERSONAL opinions and have provided objective reasons why I feel that way.  My hope when I post is to have INTELLIGENT and open debates with people who's views differs from mine, NOT waste my time having mean-spirited and pointless pissing matches with people who are too ideologically fixed to have meaningful dialogue.

 

That is what a free and democratic society is supposed to be all about, not just resorting to mean-spirited personal attacks against anyone who's views on things differ from your own.

 

Furthermore, my posts have been mostly about Biden, not Trump!  I only address Trump to say that it is disingenuous and hardly objective to say that the Trump administration made no positive contributions to the nation.  THAT is only an opinion held by a portion of the US population. 

 

THE ACTUAL FACT IS that a significant number of Americans have a strongly voiced opposing view to that, considering Biden's win could hardly be considered a landslide, and that means that almost as many Americans approved of the Trump administration as opposed it.  THAT IS A INDISPUTABLE FACT and a significant number of people's voices that should be respected and heard...unless you consider that their rights don't count.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

While your arguments are well articulated, they are only your personal opinions, NOT the final word.  Just as many Americans have opposing views to yours as there are people who agree with your perspective on the topics you listed.

 

Just as many Americans are genuinely concerned about Biden's ability to lead the nation as there are people who think he's doing a good job at this point of his administration. 

 

You and other extreme Leftists (or extreme Rightest).......

 

And there went the last of your credibility. Labeling those with opposing views as extremists is the sign of a poster who is the very opposite of objective.

 

PS. Just out of curiosity, what extremist views have been expressed by the poster you replied to?

Edited March 31, 2021 by Phoenix Rising

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

While your arguments are well articulated, they are only your personal opinions, NOT the final word.  Just as many Americans have opposing views to yours as there are people who agree with your perspective on the topics you listed.

 

Just as many Americans are genuinely concerned about Biden's ability to lead the nation as there are people who think he's doing a good job at this point of his administration. 

 

You and other extreme Leftists (or extreme Rightest) never acknowledge the simple fact that these issues are not black and white but varying shades of gray, and therefore ALL viewpoints are valid and should be acknowledged and respected, not aggressively be shouted down.

 

Respecting the viewpoints of ALL peoples is what separates a democracy from an autocracy! 

 

Intelligent, respectful and open debates are the answer, not personal attacks towards anyone who disagrees with you.

 

WHen you express your viewpoint as the Final word, and vehemently attack anyone who's viewpoint differs from your own and try to shout them down, you are simply acting as a bully, and nothing more.

 

I have never done that in my posts.  I have clearly stated my viewpoints as my PERSONAL opinions and have provided objective reasons why I feel that way.  My hope when I post is to have INTELLIGENT and open debates with people who's views differs from mine, NOT waste my time having mean-spirited and pointless pissing matches with people who are too ideologically fixed to have meaningful dialogue.

 

That is what a free and democratic society is supposed to be all about, not just resorting to mean-spirited personal attacks against anyone who's views on things differ from your own.

 

Furthermore, my posts have been mostly about Biden, not Trump!  I only address Trump to say that it is disingenuous and hardly objective to say that the Trump administration made no positive contributions to the nation.  THAT is only an opinion held by a portion of the US population. 

 

THE ACTUAL FACT IS that a significant number of Americans have a strongly voiced opposing view to that, considering Biden's win could hardly be considered a landslide, and that means that almost as many Americans approved of the Trump administration as opposed it.  THAT IS A INDISPUTABLE FACT and a significant number of people's voices that should be respected and heard...unless you consider that their rights don't count.

 

You are entitled to your own opinion; you're just not entitled to your own facts.

 

All I did was respond to your comment 'When someone give absolutely no credit to the previous administration's accomplishments in things like the rapid development of vaccines, awareness of the Chinese Communist Party threat, peace accords in the Middle East, energy independence, and a whole lot more....' My comments on this were factual and verifiable.

 

And in response to the rest of what you are saying, my only advice is to grow a thicker skin. You are debating matters on an open forum and as such you should be able to take the criticism that comes with it. You have the ability to refute what I say (that's how theswe forums work) rather than just moan about how it's offending your delicate sensitivities. But as a point, nothing I said can be construed as 'bullying', 'aggressively shouting down' or 'disresepectful'. All I am doing is poiting out your hypocrisy when trying to paint yourself as some sort of centrist when everything you post is VERY right wing. But hey, as my dear mum would always say, 'If you can't take the heat.....................'

 

P.S. Not an 'extreme leftist' (wouldn't that be a communist?), just someone who has a more rounded and obviousy more fact based view than yourself.

 

P.P.S 75 million people thought that 4 more years of Trump was the way to go. Millions of people think the earth is flat and billions think there's an invisible man in the sky who governs their every move. Just because they are there in numbers doesn't mean they 'should be respected and heard' much in the same way you probaly don't much 'respect and hear' the 1.4 billion Chinese you are so fond of demonising.   

[xylophone]

On 3/30/2021 at 12:17 PM, WaveHunter said:

I am NOT saying that the Trump administration was the best administration in the history of our country, but they did in fact accomplish many good things.

The first half of your sentence was a massive understatement, and the second half an absolute doozy.

 

With China, the US citizens suffered and China grew and prospered.
With North Korea, nothing happened.
With the wall, just a few kilometres of new wall built – – and the US citizens paid for it.
With his hookers, he simply paid them off!
With his non/late response to the covid pandemic, he cost the lives of tens of thousands of Americans, whilst extolling the virtues of disinfectant, UV light, and discarding the advice of medical specialists.

 

What trump did do was to show that any idiot could get elected to Pres if there were enough rubes to overlook his vast array of failures, bankruptcies, theft and insults, not to mention the fact that he is almost illiterate.

 

The allies who had stood by the US, and who the US had stood by in the past, were discarded like so much trash.

 

He dragged the "respect" of the office down to a level never seen before, and hopefully will never be seen again.

 

For someone who states that he is not a trump fan, I certainly don't remember you posting about his failures and his idiotic comments over the past four years, or perhaps you're another one of these; "I'm not a trump supporter, but...... ".
 

[WaveHunter]

5 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

You are entitled to your own opinion; you're just not entitled to your own facts.

 

All I did was respond to your comment 'When someone give absolutely no credit to the previous administration's accomplishments in things like the rapid development of vaccines, awareness of the Chinese Communist Party threat, peace accords in the Middle East, energy independence, and a whole lot more....' My comments on this were factual and verifiable.

 

And in response to the rest of what you are saying, my only advice is to grow a thicker skin. You are debating matters on an open forum and as such you should be able to take the criticism that comes with it. You have the ability to refute what I say (that's how theswe forums work) rather than just moan about how it's offending your delicate sensitivities. But as a point, nothing I said can be construed as 'bullying', 'aggressively shouting down' or 'disresepectful'. All I am doing is poiting out your hypocrisy when trying to paint yourself as some sort of centrist when everything you post is VERY right wing. But hey, as my dear mum would always say, 'If you can't take the heat.....................'

 

P.S. Not an 'extreme leftist' (wouldn't that be a communist?), just someone who has a more rounded and obviousy more fact based view than yourself.

 

P.P.S 75 million people thought that 4 more years of Trump was the way to go. Millions of people think the earth is flat and billions think there's an invisible man in the sky who governs their every move. Just because they are there in numbers doesn't mean they 'should be respected and heard' much in the same way you probaly don't much 'respect and hear' the 1.4 billion Chinese you are so fond of demonising.   

So what you seem to be saying is that you are the sole arbiter of what is factual and what is not, and anyone who disagrees is simply wrong.  That's a very smug view.  Unfortunately for you we don't live in an autocracy, and you don't have the absolute power to lecture others on what is right and what is wrong.

 

Nothing in politics is black or white but only varying shades of gray, so anyone that says there is only one way to explain a controversial issue is being grossly disingenuous.  Anyone who patently dismisses the previous administration as being ineffectual or evil can't be taken seriously.

 

Don't tell me I need a thicker skin.  Instead you might consider being a little more tolerant of other people's viewpoints instead of being so pompous as to dismiss other people's viewpoints by attacking them.  What you do is absolutely an attempt to "bully" others and aggressively shout down anyone's view that differs from yours.

 

Regarding your PPS:  As usual, you paint a one-sided picture to make your bogus point!  FYI, Biden won 51.3 percent of the votes cast. Trump won 46.8 percent of the votes cast.   That is not what I'd call a landslide win for Biden!  More importantly, it means that a SIZEABLE number of people thought that four more years of Trump was indeed the way to go!  But of course, their view is irrelevant to you, I suppose.  I guess you must think they are ignorant and uninformed "rubes" as one of your buddies on here refer to them as.

 

Also you smugly make an ignorant and insulting remark about my view of Chinese people, essentially accusing me of being xenophobic!.  I made it very clear in many of my posts that my issues with China have nothing to do with the Chinese people, but with China's government, The Chinese Communist Party (CCP)! 

 

I know quite a bit about China, having lived there for several years, and presently have many Chinese friends and business associates living there right now that I work with.  So, once again, you expose yourself as a self-righteous and pompous person who has very little respect for anyone who doesn't fall lock-step into your way of thinking.

 

I don't really care, one way or another, what your political views are. EVERYBODY is entitled to their political views and should be shown respect for having them if they are sincere, BUT I resent your pompous attitude and pretentious remarks, as though you, and only you, are the arbiter of what is factual and true, and what is not.

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Sujo]

9 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

So what you seem to be saying is that you are the sole arbiter of what is factual and what is not, and anyone who disagrees is simply wrong.  That's a very smug view.  Unfortunately for you we don't live in an autocracy, and you don't have the absolute power to lecture others on what is right and what is wrong.

 

Nothing in politics is black or white but only varying shades of gray, so anyone that says there is only one way to explain a controversial issue is being grossly disingenuous.  Anyone who patently dismisses the previous administration as being ineffectual or evil can't be taken seriously.

 

Don't tell me I need a thicker skin.  Instead you might consider being a little more tolerant of other people's viewpoints instead of being so pompous as to dismiss other people's viewpoints by attacking them.  What you do is absolutely an attempt to "bully" others and aggressively shout down anyone's view that differs from yours.

 

Regarding your PPS:  As usual, you paint a one-sided picture to make your bogus point!  FYI, Biden won 51.3 percent of the votes cast. Trump won 46.8 percent of the votes cast.   That is not what I'd call a landslide win for Biden!  More importantly, it means that a SIZEABLE number of people thought that four more years of Trump was indeed the way to go!  But of course, their view is irrelevant to you, I suppose.  I guess you must think they are ignorant and uninformed "rubes" as one of your buddies on here refer to them as.

 

Also you smugly make an ignorant and insulting remark about my view of Chinese people.  I made it very clear in many of my posts that my issues with China have nothing to do with the Chinese people, but with China's government, The Chinese Communist Party (CCP)! 

 

I know quite a bit about China, having lived there for several years, and presently have many Chinese friends and business associates living there right now that I work with.  So, once again, you expose yourself as a self-righteous and pompous person who has very little respect for anyone who doesn't fall lock-step into your way of thinking.

 

I don't really care, one way or another, what your political views are. EVERYBODY is entitled to their political views and should be shown respect for having them if they are sincere, BUT I resent your pompous attitude and pretentious remarks, as though you, and only you, are the arbiter of what is factual and true, and what is not.

 

 

 

No, what he is saying is verifiable facts are facts.

 

Opinions and alternative facts are not.

 

Btw, trump called his lesser voter win a landslide. So bidens win, according to trump, is indeed a landslide win.

 

So much losing from an ineffective 1 term 2 times impeached former guy.

 

So facts are people simply dont want trump.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Sujo

[WaveHunter]

23 minutes ago, Sujo said:

No, what he is saying is verifiable facts are facts.

 

Opinions and alternative facts are not.

 

Btw, trump called his lesser voter win a landslide. So bidens win, according to trump, is indeed a landslide win.

 

So much losing from an ineffective 1 term 2 times impeached former guy.

 

So facts are people simply dont want trump.

Do you know ANYTHING at all about politics?  When it comes to controversial issues, there is no absolute right or wrong unless you live in an autocracy.  In a democratic society there are two sides to EVERYTHING! "Verifiable" facts rarely exist that prove right vs wrong when it comes to highly contested and controversial issues. 

 

In a democracy, you can have opinions about what is right or wrong, but rarely can you say that an issue has a factually right or wrong solution since everybody on both sides of the fence is entitled to an equal say.

 

No offence, but your comment that "people simply don't want trump." is ignorant to the fact that while 51.3 percent of the voters wanted Biden, 46.8 percent of the voters wanted Trump!  That is not a landslide win for Biden.  So if you are going to preach about facts, be honest and present ALL of the facts!  46.8 percent of the voters is a LOT OF PEOPLE!

Edited March 31, 2021 by WaveHunter