Warning to expats: Surgery of any kind in Thailand can come with a hefty price tag

[KhunG]

14 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

You are not insured. 

You have enough money to not need insurance. That is not being self insured.

You can't just make up your own definitions.......

From the dictionary:-

(plural the insured)

(law) the person who has made an agreement with an insurance company and who receives money if, for example, they are ill or if they lose or damage something

Type "self insure" in your search engine.  There are lots of definitions available.   You searched on just "insurance."

[KarenBravo]

5 minutes ago, KhunG said:

Type "self insure" in your search engine.  There are lots of definitions available.   You searched on just "insurance."

OK, I did that. Here's one of the definitions that is right at the top.

Notice the second sentence.

When you self-insure, you basically set aside extra funds to pay for any accidents or bills yourself. You do not have insurance to cover emergency needs. Instead, you plan to pay for everything out of your own pocket. Putting it simply, this means that if your home burns down, you will have to pay to rebuild it.

[KhunG]

4 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

OK, I did that. Here's one of the definitions that is right at the top.

Notice the second sentence.

When you self-insure, you basically set aside extra funds to pay for any accidents or bills yourself. You do not have insurance to cover emergency needs. Instead, you plan to pay for everything out of your own pocket. Putting it simply, this means that if your home burns down, you will have to pay to rebuild it.

You are correct.  The point is self insurance is a thing.  Here's another definition:

"Self-insurance is a situation in which a person or business does not take out any third-party insurance, but rather a business that is liable for some risk, such as health costs, chooses to bear the risk itself rather than take out insurance through an insurance company."

I worked for a company in the US that self insured, as do many very large companies.  We all had Cigna insurance cards but Cigna was just paid to handle the details, and the company saved a lot, as did we, because they weren't paying for a third-party to pick up the tab.

Now I am fortunately in a position where I can easily self insure myself for medical concerns.  I save the premiums, don't have to worry about networks, co-pays, deductibles, care denied due to pre-existing conditions, or limits - other than what I'm willing to spend.  I've also noticed when you walk in and say cash the cost of care goes down.

[kickstart]

On 3/19/2021 at 5:14 PM, oobar said:

Wow, so the same surgery in the States cost more than eight times what it cost at Bumrungrad. 

My UK  insurance company has a list of worldwide hospitals it will not deal with,in Thailand  it is Bumrungrad ,if you do use them you pay the bill , they say to expensive  ,you can get the same treatment else where for less. 

I had a hip replacement done here ,my insurance company would not pay ,I had to declare it on the application form ,cost 260 K with ceramic femur ,my Thai 20K year insurance police with AIA paid out 60K , had it done at a local private  hospital. 

[ericthai]

On 3/18/2021 at 10:25 PM, Surelynot said:

Just had a Ultrasound, MRI and biopsy, along with medication to treat an infection from the biopsy......all in must have cost around 200k.

In Thailand??

[gunderhill]

On 3/19/2021 at 5:20 PM, gamini said:

seems a lot of confusion about hospital prices in Thailand. The best hospital is the government  Rama in Bangkok. It is better equiped than Bumrungrad. I had leg artery opeation there for bt 160,000 as against 1,300,000 in a leading private hospital. It is cheaper to use government hospitals for expensive operations than paying out  hefty insurance premiums when you get older. I am 90 and in last 20 years have had 3 heart operatons, above operation, cancer radiation and about two months total in patient treatment,  which came to much less than 20 years insurance.  

Do you mean this  one? https://www.rama.mahidol.ac.th/en

[gunderhill]

13 hours ago, Ventenio said:

Never had insurance.  I rock climb, skydive, everything.......

gofundme is access to trillions of baht...

especially if you are trying to save kittens from a volcano...

Does it work with trying to save Volcanoes from kittens? asking for a friend.

[dbrenn]

On 3/19/2021 at 6:37 PM, ukrules said:

This is why I maintain an annual health insurance which covers me for everything.

 

You never know when the unexpected will happen, we hope it never comes but it could be right around the corner.

 

It's still a good idea to have money put aside in case you have to pay for these things yourself. A friend of mine was insured with BUPA, but they refused to renew his cover once he turned 70. They did offer to renew his wife's policy though. All this being in spite of their glossy brochures promising that they will allow you to renew indefinitely.

[meechai]

48 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

It's still a good idea to have money put aside in case you have to pay for these things yourself. A friend of mine was insured with BUPA, but they refused to renew his cover once he turned 70. They did offer to renew his wife's policy though. All this being in spite of their glossy brochures promising that they will allow you to renew indefinitely.

This is a glaring problem in Thailand where it seems Insurance companies are unregulated or at least allowed to make up rules as they go.

Of course they will drop or price you right out of a policy & then politely say

Oh...Kor Tot...Mai Dai, Mai Dai

This is when you realize your screwed

Also never forget Doctors are not above also reaming you like others try to in LOS. Problem is you expect truth about your health from a doctor.

Many claims about how cheap surgery etc is in Thailand yet most have no idea how many unnecessary surgeries are performed.

I was told I needed a surgery asap...flew home to USA where they laughed at me for believing that. Made me happy & sad at the same time to realize that even the doctors in Thailand are as corrupt as most other sections...cops,monks,business, immigration...was a tough pill to swallow because you expect/need truth from especially the doctors in any country.

[dbrenn]

12 minutes ago, meechai said:

This is a glaring problem in Thailand where it seems Insurance companies are unregulated or at least allowed to make up rules as they go.

Of course they will drop or price you right out of a policy & then politely say

Oh...Kor Tot...Mai Dai, Mai Dai

This is when you realize your screwed

Also never forget Doctors are not above also reaming you like others try to in LOS. Problem is you expect truth about your health from a doctor.

Many claims about how cheap surgery etc is in Thailand yet most have no idea how many unnecessary surgeries are performed.

I was told I needed a surgery asap...flew home to USA where they laughed at me for believing that. Made me happy & sad at the same time to realize that even the doctors in Thailand are as corrupt as most other sections...cops,monks,business, immigration...was a tough pill to swallow because you expect/need truth from especially the doctors in any country.

Doctors in Thailand are a mixed bag. You can pay through the nose at a big hospital, get misdiagnosed by a quack and prescribed hundreds of pretty coloured pills. Conversely, you can go to the same hospital, or a much cheaper one, and find excellent and responsible doctors. 

I tend to follow good doctors, rather than stick with the same hospital because it has a famous brand name.

It's always wise to get a second opinion, as you did, if you're unsure. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by dbrenn

[cyril sneer]

I just plan on setting a go fund me if anything bad ever happens ✌️

[meechai]

1 hour ago, dbrenn said:

Doctors in Thailand are a mixed bag. You can pay through the nose at a big hospital, get misdiagnosed by a quack and prescribed hundreds of pretty coloured pills. Conversely, you can go to the same hospital, or a much cheaper one, and find excellent and responsible doctors. 

I tend to follow good doctors, rather than stick with the same hospital because it has a famous brand name.

It's always wise to get a second opinion, as you did, if you're unsure. 

True & I'm sure there are some good doctors in Thailand but....I think we as foreigners (as usual) are seen as more than a patient ...but a $$$ making opportunity. Sadly I did get a second opinion in Chiang Mai from the supposed expert in this field & his opinion was same as the first from BK Hospital but with a bigger price tag & an additional procedure. That is when I went back to the USA for a third & fourth opinion

Both of those also matched but were 180 degrees opposite the two Thai diagnosis with their need for costly (needless) operations. This was going on 5 years ago now & I am happy to say the US doctors were right as I am fine & healthy.

 I do not really know why it made me so sad as I should have known & realized later....why would the medical profession be upstanding & honest? I had already lived in Thailand many years, learned to speak,read & write Thai & should have known better & not been surprised/saddened that corruption in ingrained in Thailand from high to low.

But I think the reason was because it was a realization that it could never really be trusted again nor a long term home because this was far too important a realization. What if I had been admitted unconscious? They would have fed my wife these stories & drained our accounts because surely my wife would pay above & beyond if told it was a medical emergency.

 

 

[simon43]

3 hours ago, dbrenn said:

It's still a good idea to have money put aside in case you have to pay for these things yourself. A friend of mine was insured with BUPA, but they refused to renew his cover once he turned 70. They did offer to renew his wife's policy though. All this being in spite of their glossy brochures promising that they will allow you to renew indefinitely.

If the contract that he signed states that they will renew his policy etc, then they legally have to do so!  I suspect that there was some get-out clause in the small print - which is why you should read the small print very carefully before taking out the policy. (AFAIK, BUPA policies from the EU and UK cover you for life - there is no get-out clause, unless you don't actually pay the premium...)

[ChrisY1]

On 3/19/2021 at 12:25 PM, Surelynot said:

Just had a Ultrasound, MRI and biopsy, along with medication to treat an infection from the biopsy......all in must have cost around 200k.

That's insane...unless you attended a private hospital. 

[ChrisY1]

1 hour ago, meechai said:

True & I'm sure there are some good doctors in Thailand but....I think we as foreigners (as usual) are seen as more than a patient ...but a $$$ making opportunity. Sadly I did get a second opinion in Chiang Mai from the supposed expert in this field & his opinion was same as the first from BK Hospital but with a bigger price tag & an additional procedure. That is when I went back to the USA for a third & fourth opinion

Both of those also matched but were 180 degrees opposite the two Thai diagnosis with their need for costly (needless) operations. This was going on 5 years ago now & I am happy to say the US doctors were right as I am fine & healthy.

 I do not really know why it made me so sad as I should have known & realized later....why would the medical profession be upstanding & honest? I had already lived in Thailand many years, learned to speak,read & write Thai & should have known better & not been surprised/saddened that corruption in ingrained in Thailand from high to low.

But I think the reason was because it was a realization that it could never really be trusted again nor a long term home because this was far too important a realization. What if I had been admitted unconscious? They would have fed my wife these stories & drained our accounts because surely my wife would pay above & beyond if told it was a medical emergency.

 

 

Do the research....find the better doctors/specialists and hospitals.....the language barrier can be difficult, but it's a must to do.

As a foreigner here, needing medical care, we have to be prepared for any occasion....insurance is vital and to start one as soon as possible is important...before age 65 preferably. I'm 74 my insurance premiums are static to age 80 and it works fine...usual refund is ~50% .

One does not "save" money by being uninsured.....!

[dbrenn]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

If the contract that he signed states that they will renew his policy etc, then they legally have to do so!  I suspect that there was some get-out clause in the small print - which is why you should read the small print very carefully before taking out the policy. (AFAIK, BUPA policies from the EU and UK cover you for life - there is no get-out clause, unless you don't actually pay the premium...)

A health insurance contract expires each year. It wasn't my contract, so I didn't read the small print, but there was most likely a clause in it that gave BUPA the right to change terms upon renewal, or no clause promising renewal under the same terms, both meaning that they can change terms on renewal. 

The friend I'm referring to is a contract manager for large civil engineering projects in Thailand, so I do trust his word on this one.

[dbrenn]

4 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

A health insurance contract expires each year. It wasn't my contract, so I didn't read the small print, but there was most likely a clause in it that gave BUPA the right to change terms upon renewal, or no clause in the contract itself promising renewal under the same terms. Insurance companies are masters at wriggling out of promises and use of conflicting legalese.

The friend I'm referring to is a contract manager for large civil engineering projects in Thailand, so I do trust his word on this one.

 

[HAPPYNUFF]

Me, Im too old   to get any type of insurance.  The  Accident cover I  did have  was   cancelled when I reached that   certain age whereby Insurance Companies decide  your a bad risk.  Ive  told my other half   when and if I get seriously ill,   when the hospital account reaches  100 thou,  take me home,  buy me a  few bottles of Irish whisky  and leave me to it.

As an aside,  a good mate has  both accident and  health insurance.     He  suffered a strangulated hernia lifting the compulsory  Buddha    thing  at the front yard,   50,000 baht later, his Insurance Co. refused to pay on either policy,,"  not accident  sir,not health problem sir.."..  only in Thailand.

[rumak]

On 3/19/2021 at 12:19 PM, bdenner said:

At 71 I'm virtually uninsurable now but in saying that I have been self insured (when it comes to health) all my life.

Had a domestic accident 2 months ago, splintered a section of my knee cap and tissue damage to my lower leg and foot. In short 6 days in the BKK Hospital Udon which included surgery.

Thus far 140K Baht (AUD $6000) = absolutely no problem. I'm so far in front of the game just looking at the ridiculous premiums I would have paid over the years.

Warms my heart to read another person who has echoed what i have written a few times on this forum.   

"Thus far 140K Baht (AUD $6000) = absolutely no problem. I'm so far in front of the game just looking at the ridiculous premiums I would have paid over the years."   YES !!

A few on here love to bash the "self insured" amongst us.   My story is exactly the same as bdenners.  I am 70,  been here 30 years and had my first "accident"  which required anything more than a 500 baht visit to a clinic.   Broke my hip , a fairly serious injury that requires immediate surgery and hospitalization for a few days.  My total cost at a private hospital in CM  with a competent surgeon was 130 k baht.   

After 3 months of SELF rehabilitation I am now walking as normal,  though 100% may take a bit longer.   Warning:  if you are not willing to take responsibility for your own state of health,   live in fear that a bus will hit you crossing the street,  or believe that at any time you can be faced with life changing million baht medical bills ....... do not self insure.  The insurance companies love you.

[rumak]

On 3/19/2021 at 12:23 PM, robblok said:

I lost money on insurance.. and I dont mind. Its a peace of mind for me. But im in a different age bracket as you. I wound not care about 160k baht that is not a problem. I am talking about the things that cost around a million and stuff like that. 

too much humping and pumping will inflate 140k  to  look like 160 k 

[rumak]

before i even get to page 3 i can see that many of you CHOOSE to go to the most expensive private hospitals.    

I have managed to live more than half my life in Thailand on much less income than many of you.   My choice,  and definitely no regrets.     I have learned many things .  One is that a fancy room and hardly any other patients ( but the same surgeon )  in one of those "well known hospitals"  will cost twice as much as the private hospital i was in. 

some of the quotes for "heart conditions" and such people are making here are absurd.  I have one friend who had major heart surgery...... another who recently had a pace maker put in ............... and i KNOW what they paid.      I advise anyone on this forum to learn thai, learn to be self sufficient,  and learn how to ascertain the different options available.

the rest of you........  well,  there is always the internet .   good luck

 

[rumak]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:48 PM, damascase said:

3 nights, 378k baht, OMG.

yes,  for removal of gallstones !    Now that cost , my friends,   takes a LOT OF GALL !

 

[rumak]

On 3/19/2021 at 8:14 PM, Humpy said:

 After a biopsy of the skin cancer on my head at the Pattaya Bangkok Hospital I was told that it was 'cutaneous squamous cell  carcinoma (cSCC ) . They told me the cost of treatment would be Baht 160,000 .   I was too old for health insurance.

However, I sought treatment at a private hospital in Khon Kaen . The operation was successful, (2 inch diameter skin repair with skin taken from my leg) and the cost was Baht 38,000 which included one night in hospital and regular check ups for 18 months after. Excellent service . So it pays to shop around .

 

A very good example of the options available to those who try .   Good work !

[Surelynot]

3 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

That's insane...unless you attended a private hospital. 

Bumrungrad.......and that was with a 40% discount on inpatient prices.

[Surelynot]

On 3/19/2021 at 1:29 PM, shackleton said:

I am paying a high premium for my insurance  with BUPA

and have been with them for a lot of years and its been worth it

Have to admit first class service with them on my medical care operations and treatment here in the hospitals in Thailand 

Health in my estimation comes first 

 

 

 

Would it be rude to enquire........ what is the premium? I appreciate that doesn't spell out what it covers, but you seem more than happy with the insurance policy.

[Airalee]

On 3/20/2021 at 2:12 PM, HashBrownHarry said:

See how far in front you are if you're ever unfortunate enough to have to spend any significant days in ICU.

Guy i knew paid 150K per night!!!

No he didn’t

[KarenBravo]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

before i even get to page 3 i can see that many of you CHOOSE to go to the most expensive private hospitals.    

I have managed to live more than half my life in Thailand on much less income than many of you.   My choice,  and definitely no regrets.     I have learned many things .  One is that a fancy room and hardly any other patients ( but the same surgeon )  in one of those "well known hospitals"  will cost twice as much as the private hospital i was in. 

some of the quotes for "heart conditions" and such people are making here are absurd.  I have one friend who had major heart surgery...... another who recently had a pace maker put in ............... and i KNOW what they paid.      I advise anyone on this forum to learn thai, learn to be self sufficient,  and learn how to ascertain the different options available.

the rest of you........  well,  there is always the internet .   good luck

 

 

No you haven't. Seventy years old and been here thirty years. Since when was that half?

[Moonlover]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:04 PM, KarenBravo said:

I - and my wife - both plan to live in Thailand for as long as we can but move back to the UK when serious ill health and the need for any old age operation are required. Insurance is ridiculous after 70/75 and that will be when it would be time to leave for me

 

 

On 3/19/2021 at 4:04 PM, KarenBravo said:

Even as a UK citizen, you will have to live in the UK for 6 months before you can access the benefits of the NHS at a reasonable price.

If your illness can't wait for 6 months, you're stuffed.

This is not true. A UK citizen returning to take up permanent residence is entitled to NI treatment from the moment they arrive in the country.

 

Using the NHS when you return to live in the UK

[Moonlover]

Deleted

Edited March 21, 2021 by Moonlover
Deleted duplicate post

[Curt1591]

On the subject of billing rates for Thai hospitals ...

We are all aware of the dual pricing in Thailand. However, some may not be aware that many Thai hospitals have 4-tier pricing - Thai price, foreigner price, Thai insurance price, and foreigner insurance price.

And, we have found that some hospitals and doctors will even work with patients to help keep costs down. But, when insurance is involved, they just send the bill! 

There is actually some logic in this case of the Thai/foreigner price scheme. In many cases, foreigners fly to Thailand to avoid the costs of Western doctors and procedures. They can pay the airfare, hospital costs and still come out ahead. I am an unfortunate casualty of that. But, I don't take it personal.