Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[aidenai]

9 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I am now a Thai citizen with my Thai national ID card????

 

I went to the khet in Bangkok with my friend(the owner of the house I am registered with). Everything went very smoothly, except we needed another witness. The registrar had told us we only needed one. However, a quick call to my friend's son and he was there in 10 minutes. My friend also couldn't find his ID but his driving license was accepted. 

I had quite a few forms to sign, and name put in Blue housebook then moved on to get the photo and ID issued. They never asked for my siblings' names but it was important if they were older or younger. 

A pleasant, happy experience. We started at 1.30 pm and were out at 2.45 pm. 

 

Thanks to all for help/motivation along the way, including the OP of this thread, which caught my attention a few years back. 

 

 

Application at Special Branch  - Dec 2017

National Intelligence Agency interview -  Jan 2018

Ministry of Interior interview -  Sep 2019

Oath -  July 2020

Royal Gazette announcement  - Nov 2020

Issue of Cert. of Naturalization - Dec 2020

Issue of ID card - Dec 2020.

 

All in all, 3 years from application to finishing the process. 

 

Congratulations.

[Neeranam]

Just noticed  that my ID card is valid for 9 years. Does anyone know why this odd number? 

 

Also, I'm going to quit my job, do I need to visit the tax office for anything? Is money coming into Thailand from abroad taxable?

 

 

[khongaeng]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Just noticed  that my ID card is valid for 9 years. Does anyone know why this odd number? 

 

Also, I'm going to quit my job, do I need to visit the tax office for anything? Is money coming into Thailand from abroad taxable?

 

 

How odd about the 9 years.  I will let you know what mine says when I get my ID card hopefully in the next 2 weeks.

 

You are supposed to cancel your work permit at the labor office, but if you leave your job, then your company will have to do that for you anyway.  

 

Money coming into Thailand is technically taxable, but only if it is income.  The Thai tax authorities have no way of proving the money is income or just savings you are bringing in from abroad, so there is no real reason to report it.   This is an easy way to live tax free, assuming you have a foreign employer.  
 

Just out of curiosity, did you get a new ID number with your Thai ID, or is it the same number as was on your Pink ID, or Tax ID?

[BKKBike09]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Just noticed  that my ID card is valid for 9 years. Does anyone know why this odd number? 

 

Also, I'm going to quit my job, do I need to visit the tax office for anything? Is money coming into Thailand from abroad taxable?

 

 

 

On income from abroad: it is taxable if brought into Thailand in the same tax year that it was earned. If you have been earning overseas for some time then it can be, obviously, quite difficult to prove when any particular sum that you transfer in was actually earned. My sister-in-law, who was a C7 Revenue Official before she retired, said that the RD didn't really care about trying to tax this income because they were just happy that it was brought into Thailand and spent here ... Of course, that was a couple of years ago and the government now is desperate for tax revenues and trying to bring as many people into the tax system as possible. Plus banks in some countries may advise the Thai authorities of transfers to Thailand if they've ever asked you for your tax residency status and you've declared that you are Thai resident for tax purposes. 

 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, khongaeng said:

 

You are supposed to cancel your work permit at the labor office, but if you leave your job, then your company will have to do that for you anyway.  

 

Money coming into Thailand is technically taxable, but only if it is income.  The Thai tax authorities have no way of proving the money is income or just savings you are bringing in from abroad, so there is no real reason to report it.   This is an easy way to live tax free, assuming you have a foreign employer.  
 

Just out of curiosity, did you get a new ID number with your Thai ID, or is it the same number as was on your Pink ID, or Tax ID?

Actually the company I worked for are going out of business, so they won't be doing that cancellation of WP. This doesn't bother me.

 

Some of the money I have coming in is under 1.5 million baht a year, so I think it is not taxable. I would rather not declare something that I don't have to. I guess they won't just do a random test on all Thai citizens to find out where the fund in their bank accounts came from? Also, I pay some tax in the USA, despite being British and never having lived, or been to the US.

 

Everybody gets a new ID number - the first is always 8, in our case. the next 4 are dependent on the city and district we get it issued. 

 

 

[BKKBike09]

21 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Everybody gets a new ID number - the first is always 8, in our case. the next 4 are dependent on the city and district we get it issued. 

 

 

 

Is that true? I assumed that if one already had a 13-digit ID (through PR in my case, so starting with an 8), that would remain one's ID number?    

 

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

Is that true? I assumed that if one already had a 13-digit ID (through PR in my case, so starting with an 8), that would remain one's ID number?    

 

All foreign nationals who become Thai nationals through naturalization will have an ID card number starting with an 8. I never had PR. I went straight for citizenship based on marriage to a Thai. My ID card starts with an 8 too.

 

Not sure but I think the next four digits after the 8 are based on the geocode. So I assume all people who naturalized while living in Prakanong District would have an ID number starting with 81009, and those from Bangna district would start with 81047, etc. Perhaps others could confirm this.   

Edited January 1, 2021 by GarryP

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Not sure but I think the next four digits after the 8 are based on the geocode. So I assume all people who naturalized while living in Prakanong District would have an ID number starting with 81009, and those from Bangna district would start with 81047, etc.

Here is what the numbers mean.

[GarryP]

32 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Here is what the numbers mean.

I think going with the geocode is simpler for digits 2, 3, 4 and 5. But then it is directly linked to the province and district any way.  For example, the provincial code for Ubon is 34 and the geocode for Amphur Meuang is 3401, while the geocode for Phibun Mangsahan district of Ubon is 3419. I assume foreigners who naturalized while living in those districts would have ID cards starting with 83401 and 83419, respectively. And, yes, I understand that is not going to happen any time soon as it seems that successful applications need to be filed in Bangkok and only a very few other provinces.

 

I am not sure I understand what digit 13 means though. Does that mean the unit appearing in the total of the previous seven digits? From the above example, 6+7+8+9+0+1+2= 33. I ask because in my case, that works, i.e. add the previous seven digits and use the last digit of the answer.  

 

Just checked my wife's ID card no. and that doesn't work for the last digit so must be coincidental in my case and the example above.

Edited January 1, 2021 by GarryP

[Neeranam]

56 minutes ago, GarryP said:

All foreign nationals who become Thai nationals through naturalization will have an ID card number starting with an 8. I never had PR. I went straight for citizenship based on marriage to a Thai. My ID card starts with an 8 too.

 

Not sure but I think the next four digits after the 8 are based on the geocode. So I assume all people who naturalized while living in Prakanong District would have an ID number starting with 81009, and those from Bangna district would start with 81047, etc. Perhaps others could confirm this.   

Correct. Bang Kae is 81040.

[Neeranam]

 

10 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I am not sure I understand what digit 13 means though. Does that mean the unit appearing in the total of the previous seven digits? From the above example, 6+7+8+9+0+1+2= 33. I ask because in my case, that works, i.e. add the previous seven digits and use the last digit of the answer. 

Doesn't work in my case. 

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I assume foreigners who naturalized while living in those districts would have ID cards starting with 83401 and 83419, respectively. And, yes, I understand that is not going to happen any time soon as it seems that successful applications need to be filed in Bangkok and only a very few other provinces.

Those that applied while on PR could have a ID number for places other place that Bangkok if their registration for a house book was done elsewhere when they got it.

I think some people that registered with for a yellow house should be able to get their blue house book registry and ID card done at a Amphoe for where they are living. It would probably require some paperwork to be shuffled around though.

[Neeranam]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think some people that registered with for a yellow house should be able to get their blue house book registry and ID card done at a Amphoe for where they are living. It would probably require some paperwork to be shuffled around though.

As long as the change of address is before the Oath stage, so the MOI can send a letter to the right district office.

[yankee99]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

As long as the change of address is before the Oath stage, so the MOI can send a letter to the right district office.

That's what i did after moi before oath changed back to Banglamung 

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

That's what i did after moi before oath changed back to Banglamung 

Probably wise, will save you a trip to Bangkok. 

[khongaeng]

35 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

That's what i did after moi before oath changed back to Banglamung 

Did you take your oath at SB Branch in Bangkok or in Banglamung?

[yankee99]

1 minute ago, khongaeng said:

Did you take your oath at SB Branch in Bangkok or in Banglamung?

I took the oath at SB Bkk and handed them my updated book at the same time. 

[BKKBike09]

20 hours ago, GarryP said:

I think going with the geocode is simpler for digits 2, 3, 4 and 5. But then it is directly linked to the province and district any way.  For example, the provincial code for Ubon is 34 and the geocode for Amphur Meuang is 3401, while the geocode for Phibun Mangsahan district of Ubon is 3419. I assume foreigners who naturalized while living in those districts would have ID cards starting with 83401 and 83419, respectively. And, yes, I understand that is not going to happen any time soon as it seems that successful applications need to be filed in Bangkok and only a very few other provinces.

 

I am not sure I understand what digit 13 means though. Does that mean the unit appearing in the total of the previous seven digits? From the above example, 6+7+8+9+0+1+2= 33. I ask because in my case, that works, i.e. add the previous seven digits and use the last digit of the answer.  

 

Just checked my wife's ID card no. and that doesn't work for the last digit so must be coincidental in my case and the example above.

The digits 6-12 I believe show what number you were in that registration office's list of whatever ID card category you have. In my case I must have been in a wilderness for PR holders (despite it being a Bangkok 'burb, albeit on the wrong side of the tracks, as it were), because my digits 6-10 are '00000' ... 

 

Still, makes the whole 13 digit number pretty easy to remember.

 

I've no idea how the check sum 13th digit works.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

3 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

I've no idea how the check sum 13th digit works.

 

The algorithm is here https://gist.github.com/layerlre/a8cffb2713089235062334cb07e653bd

In short you calculate the result of this sum:

 

digit1 * 13
digit2 * 12
digit3 * 11
digit4 * 10
digit5 * 9 
digit6 * 8 
digit7 * 7 
digit8 * 6 
digit9 * 5 
digit10 * 4
digit11 * 3
digit12 * 2

 

and then you calculate (11 - result modulo 11) modulo 10

 

modulo m means you deduct m as many times as you can deduct it, until the result gets below m

 

Example if sum result was 240:

 

We have to calculate (11 - 240 modulo 11)  modulo 10

240 modulo 11 = 240 - 11 - 11 - 11 .... = 240 - 11*21 = 240 - 231 = 9

11 - 240 modulo 11 = 11 - 9 = 2

2 is less than 10 so 2 modulo 10 is 2

=> thirteen digit will be 2

 

HNY2021 everyone!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[khongaeng]

On 1/1/2021 at 8:18 PM, yankee99 said:

I took the oath at SB Bkk and handed them my updated book at the same time. 

That sounds like a really good way to do it.  I wish that I had done this too, because at that point in the process, it probably wouldn't make your process take any longer.  I am curious if you would still pick up your naturalization certificate from SB in Bangkok, or in Banglamung.  

 

The naturalization certificate has your house registration (that was posted in RG on it), so for me, my address is some random relatives house in Bangkok that they probably will sell one of these years.  I wonder if I will always need to keep a record of change of addresses over the years as I move from house registration to house registration, similar to the chain that a Thai person has to show if they have changed their name multiple times.  So for instance with my Naturalization certificate showing one address, I would need to have a copy of the house registration from that house, then the next house that says I moved from the address on my Naturalization certificate, then another copy showing moving from the next address and so on. 

 

You would think that they would have a copy of this in the system, but every time I do some paperwork like a visa that requires my marriage certificate, I have to bring my wife's name change documents that shows her change from maiden name to my last name and so on.  Keeping a chain of house registrations would be a pain for sure.  

 

I wonder if anyone has had any experience in using their naturalization certificate after they have already changed their house registration 2 or more times after that.  

[Neeranam]

21 hours ago, khongaeng said:

I wonder if I will always need to keep a record of change of addresses over the years as I move from house registration to house registration, similar to the chain that a Thai person has to show if they have changed their name multiple times.  So for instance with my Naturalization certificate showing one address, I would need to have a copy of the house registration from that house, then the next house that says I moved from the address on my Naturalization certificate, then another copy showing moving from the next address and so on

I believe it is all stored online these days. 

I changed my yellow book a couple of times and needed a letter from the outgoing provincial office to show the new office. However, my wife and kids didn't need such a letter; the house owner removed their names and no letter was needed as the info was online. 

I plan to change my blue book in a week or so. 

[khongaeng]

17 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I believe it is all stored online these days. 

I changed my yellow book a couple of times and needed a letter from the outgoing provincial office to show the new office. However, my wife and kids didn't need such a letter; the house owner removed their names and no letter was needed as the info was online. 

I plan to change my blue book in a week or so. 

The Bangkok office I talked to made it sound like I would need a letter even after I am on the blue book.  This would be a pain to get the house owner to come to the office again only to get a "Move Out" letter. I am familiar with this process for yellow books, but I thought Thais could move into any house registration without a letter from the outgoing registration office.

 

Where you able to get a letter when you got your first ID card, or are you planning to try the move at the destination office first?  Did they recommend that you wait for a while on your first house registration before moving?  The office I talked to said I should wait 2 weeks after being on the Blue Book before initiating the move to the new registration and that I might require a letter too.

Edited January 4, 2021 by khongaeng

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, khongaeng said:

The Bangkok office I talked to made it sound like I would need a letter even after I am on the blue book.  This would be a pain to get the house owner to come to the office again only to get a "Move Out" letter. I am familiar with this process for yellow books, but I thought Thais could move into any house registration without a letter from the outgoing registration office.

 

Where you able to get a letter when you got your first ID card, or are you planning to try the move at the destination office first?  Did they recommend that you wait for a while on your first house registration before moving?  The office I talked to said I should wait 2 weeks after being on the Blue Book before initiating the move to the new registration and that I might require a letter too.

Yes, Thais don't need a letter from their old amphur. They advised me to wait one week. They said the owner has to remove my name from the housebook first, which doesn't mean I have to be there. Actually, they said that can be done online too. They also said it might be difficult as my province have never done this before. 

[khongaeng]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Yes, Thais don't need a letter from their old amphur. They advised me to wait one week. They said the owner has to remove my name from the housebook first, which doesn't mean I have to be there. Actually, they said that can be done online too. They also said it might be difficult as my province have never done this before. 

Thank you Neeranam, this is very helpful.  This is the first I have ever heard about removing a name from a housebook online.  Do you by change have a link to the webpage where that would occur?  

 

This whole process seems so odd, and not in line with what "real Thais" are privileged to do.  Moving my children's house registration within days of birth was never an issue without any sort of reporting or paperwork from the origin office.  Everything was taken care of at the destination office.  This seems very similar to what those with yellow books have to do.  Is this another instance where Naturalized Thais are second-class Thais when compared to people "born Thai"?

[heiri007]

Hmm... wondering how the latest Covid wave will slow down MOI interview, oath and other processes...

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, heiri007 said:

Hmm... wondering how the latest Covid wave will slow down MOI interview, oath and other processes...

Don't worry, mine was only slowed down by a month or maybe two. 

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, khongaeng said:

Thank you Neeranam, this is very helpful.  This is the first I have ever heard about removing a name from a housebook online.  Do you by change have a link to the webpage where that would occur?  

 

This whole process seems so odd, and not in line with what "real Thais" are privileged to do.  Moving my children's house registration within days of birth was never an issue without any sort of reporting or paperwork from the origin office.  Everything was taken care of at the destination office.  This seems very similar to what those with yellow books have to do.  Is this another instance where Naturalized Thais are second-class Thais when compared to people "born Thai"?

Sorry, I don't have the link but will pass it on if I have time to find it.

 

I think we may be fine just going to the Amphur and switching blue books.

 

Btw, today I went to immigration and tried to cancel my visa. They said I never had to as my visa had expired. I questioned them and the boss finally wrote something in a page of my UK passport along the lines of this guy showed his royal gazette publication from the MOI on date and is now a Thai citizen. They were quite pleasant and congratulated me, they had never seen a whitey with a Thai ID card.

 

 

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

So it's much harder to get Canadian citizenship than Thai, where you need nowhere near an IELTS 7 equivalent in Thai. Anyways, why are you telling us here about Canada? The only people I have known to want to go there are my elderly relatives who moved from Scotland 50 years ago and many Chinese that can't get into the USA. I'm miserable in the week or so we get temperatures around 15C, I wouldn't go somewhere where it's -20C in the winter if I was paid a fortune. 

I had to take 7 days off work getting Thai citizenship, and spent C$212, I really don't see your point. 

 

I am with you on this Neeranam. I wrote the below in response to his post as I too did not see his point then decided not to post (luckily I cut it and it was recallable). It did not really respond to what he wrote though. 

 

"Oh God, not another. Even with my British passport, there are not 70 countries I wish to visit. I have probably been to only about 10 different countries in my whole life. I don't care, and I wouldn't care if my Thai passport gave visa free access to no countries at all. I don't care. I did not become a Thai citizen to get a bloody passport. I have lived here for 38 years. Doesn't trying to get citizenship seem a no brainer? I no longer have to worry about visas. I own my house and have bought land here. I don't just grumble and grouse about politics, I can vote. Life is so much easier living in a country of which you are a citizen.  Do I need to go on?"

 

Admin, please feel free to delete if inappropriate.   

[ubonjoe]

Several off topic posts meant to deflect the topic and the expected replies to them have been removed.

[david143]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Several off topic posts meant to deflect the topic and the expected replies to them have been removed.

Thank you Brother,
it was really necessary to call you here.
Thank you for your time