Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[onthemoon]

13 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

It is one of a number of recent disappointments and irritations about Thailand.  He wants to quit working but needs to continue for citizenship. Remittance tax is the reinterpretation of the Revenue Code by Revenue Department order P 161/2566 in September 2023 which means that foreign source income earned after 1 Jan 2024 have to be taxed, if remitted to Thailand, at regular personal income tax rates.  That has caused a number of expat retirees to review whether they want to remain as That tax residents or will spend less than 180 days a year in the Kingdom and avoid that tax. 

 

I had another friend whose goal was to get PR and stay in Thailand.  Finally he got his PR application together with the help of a law firm but found after a few months dound that they had screwed it up and he was rejected.  He could have reapplied the following year but he was so upset that he left Thailand and got a job somewhere else. Some people can be affected like that feeling a strong sense of rejection.  However, many others of us have families here and can't easily up sticks and have to persevere. In my case I had real curved balls thrown at me while applying for both PR and citizenship but kept fighting and managed against all odds o get the applications back on track without having to reapply.  I was told I was unqualified for PR and my citizenship file was knocked back to SB from the MOI.  I think of it like a combination of an obstacle course and a war of attrition where you mustn't fall into despair during long waits with no news.

I guess some people just give up while others persevere. People are different.

[saakura]

@Marcati Congratulations, and hope all goes well with the final process. I had my NIA interview and all documents were sent to MOI in 2020, so hopefully in 2rys time I will get lucky. I am planning to retire in 2026, so it is really worrying.

[Arun Mai]

On 4/26/2024 at 8:37 PM, saakura said:

@Marcati Congratulations, and hope all goes well with the final process. I had my NIA interview and all documents were sent to MOI in 2020, so hopefully in 2rys time I will get lucky. I am planning to retire in 2026, so it is really worrying.

I don't plan on retiring just yet, but I agree that it is frustrating.  Essentially I can't retire as long as this process is ongoing.  My file was sent to the MOI in July 2022 and I am still waiting for THE interview.  Still, I tend to put it out of my mind and every now and again I come back to check to see if there have been any developments.  Happy for @Marcati.  Congratulations.

[onthemoon]

My file was sent to MOI in April 2019 and received in May that year, so I am celebrating my 5-year anniversary of waiting for the interview. I plan to retire in six years, and I hope the process will be completed by then.

Of course, before I applied for citizenship, I had to have my PR for 5 years. And in order to apply for the PR, I had to be on the same work permit for 3 years. From PR application to getting it took 6 years, that's 14 years. I lapsed 1 year before applying for citizenship (lazy me!) and have now been waiting for my interview for 5 years.

 

So, we are talking 20 years and no end in sight. One thing you learn in Thailand is patience. 🙂

[david143]

16 hours ago, onthemoon said:

My file was sent to MOI in April 2019 and received in May that year, so I am celebrating my 5-year anniversary of waiting for the interview. I plan to retire in six years, and I hope the process will be completed by then.

Of course, before I applied for citizenship, I had to have my PR for 5 years. And in order to apply for the PR, I had to be on the same work permit for 3 years. From PR application to getting it took 6 years, that's 14 years. I lapsed 1 year before applying for citizenship (lazy me!) and have now been waiting for my interview for 5 years.

 

So, we are talking 20 years and no end in sight. One thing you learn in Thailand is patience. 🙂

My Brother i salute your patience

[Neeranam]

On 4/29/2024 at 6:23 PM, onthemoon said:

My file was sent to MOI in April 2019 and received in May that year, so I am celebrating my 5-year anniversary of waiting for the interview. I plan to retire in six years, and I hope the process will be completed by then.

Of course, before I applied for citizenship, I had to have my PR for 5 years. And in order to apply for the PR, I had to be on the same work permit for 3 years. From PR application to getting it took 6 years, that's 14 years. I lapsed 1 year before applying for citizenship (lazy me!) and have now been waiting for my interview for 5 years.

 

So, we are talking 20 years and no end in sight. One thing you learn in Thailand is patience. 🙂

It will be worth it when you get that blue card. 

[onthemoon]

11 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It will be worth it when you get that blue card. 

Yes, I think so. Thanks.

[qualtrough]

On 5/12/2024 at 9:59 AM, onthemoon said:

Yes, I think so. Thanks.

You can divide your life into pre and post citizenship periods, and the latter is so much more convenient. Well worth any wait.

[smutcakes]

On 4/29/2024 at 6:23 PM, onthemoon said:

My file was sent to MOI in April 2019 and received in May that year, so I am celebrating my 5-year anniversary of waiting for the interview. I plan to retire in six years, and I hope the process will be completed by then.

Of course, before I applied for citizenship, I had to have my PR for 5 years. And in order to apply for the PR, I had to be on the same work permit for 3 years. From PR application to getting it took 6 years, that's 14 years. I lapsed 1 year before applying for citizenship (lazy me!) and have now been waiting for my interview for 5 years.

 

So, we are talking 20 years and no end in sight. One thing you learn in Thailand is patience. 🙂

 

I submitted by citizen application pretty much straight away after receiving PR (in December 2020)... or at least within a year- i have already had one interview at time of application, and one from Special Branch... Seems if my route is regular you can submit soon after receiving PR and then wait the 5 year of holding PR process out when its working its way through the Citizenship process, thereby cutting the time. Not sure why your PR process took so long.

[onthemoon]

3 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

I submitted by citizen application pretty much straight away after receiving PR (in December 2020)... or at least within a year- i have already had one interview at time of application, and one from Special Branch... Seems if my route is regular you can submit soon after receiving PR and then wait the 5 year of holding PR process out when its working its way through the Citizenship process, thereby cutting the time. Not sure why your PR process took so long.

I am surprised, as I was told at the time that I have to hold PR for 5 years before applying for citizenship. Since they have accepted your application after less than a year, this must have been wrong. Thanks for info.

[smutcakes]

5 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

I am surprised, as I was told at the time that I have to hold PR for 5 years before applying for citizenship. Since they have accepted your application after less than a year, this must have been wrong. Thanks for info.

 

Wrong or just one of those vagaries of Thai bureaucracy when different people/departments/bosses etc etc make up & use their own processes!

[GabbaGabbaHey]

3 hours ago, onthemoon said:

I am surprised, as I was told at the time that I have to hold PR for 5 years before applying for citizenship. Since they have accepted your application after less than a year, this must have been wrong. Thanks for info.

This is only possible when you have a Thai spouse and you apply to citizenship on the basis of marriage -assuming you meet the conditions-. PR holders that are not married to a Thai national must have a minimum of 5 years of PR before applying.

Edited May 20 by GabbaGabbaHey

[GarryP]

57 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

This is only possible when you have a Thai spouse and you apply to citizenship on the basis of marriage -assuming you meet the conditions-. PR holders that are not married to a Thai national must have a minimum of 5 years of PR before applying.

That is my understanding too. I recall there was a bit of a mix up in @Arkady's case as to the basis of his citizenship application, i.e. whether based on PR or marriage, which nearly threw a spanner in the works for him. I think it was a screw up by the SB in his case. Perhaps he could help clear this up. 

[Arkady]

23 hours ago, onthemoon said:

I am surprised, as I was told at the time that I have to hold PR for 5 years before applying for citizenship. Since they have accepted your application after less than a year, this must have been wrong. Thanks for info.

 

First of all there have been many people who applied for citizenship less than 5 years after getting PR because they were also married to a Thai. That means their application is on the basis of marriage, not PR. If anything happens to their marriage before the MoI interview, they are no longer eligible and have to reapply from scratch on the basis of PR.  

 

Secondly there has been divided opinion over the years at the nationality section at the MoI as to whether the 5 years' residency requirement for citizenship can be partly or wholly fulfilled by time spent on regular visas prior to obtaining PR, or whether the residence requirement can only be fulfilled by 5 years' PR. The Nationality Act doesn't specify that it has to be PR but that has been an MoI interpretation.  Up until the first Thaksin regime in the early 2000s, Immigration prided itself on approving the prior year's batch of PR applicants before opening the window for the next batch of applications.  So waiting 5 years after that wasn't considered such a great hardship. But an element of xenophobia crept into the system under the Thaksin government and his first interior minister, a man who was accepted as a PR by New Zealand, described the applicants for PR and citizenship as worthless people contributing nothing to Thai society and even criminals and rejected entire batches who had to reapply from scratch. That was the start of lengthy waits for PR and citizenship.

 

My understanding is that in the mid 2000s, about the time this thread started, the MoI was taking pity on people who had waited 5 years plus for PR under the new system and started to allow applicants to count time prior to PR towards the 5 year citizenship requirement. I was aware of several cases who got citizenship on that basis and bear in mind that until 2008 there was no marriage route to citizenship for males and that applications on the basis of marriage were not even readily accepted until 2010.  However, this window lasted only a few years and by 2010, they started getting lots of applications from males based on marriage and the MoI decided to tighten up another of issues to try to stem the flow, including the points system and stopped accepting applications on the basis of PR without 5 years of PR.  At the time I applied in 2010 they were knocking back applications with less than 5 years PR and making them reapply from scratch.  Some of them were unfortunate, as SB officers advised them to apply without realizing the change was coming at the MoI. Others came with lawyers who forced SB to accept the applications which they did but they got rejected anyway. My case officer showed me a batch of applications that had just come back from the MoI for this reason.  The MoI only reviewed the files when they got to the head of the interview queue. So they waited about 3 years to find out that their residence qualification had been rejected. The 3 or so years wait could not be counted as part of the 5 year requirement.

 

It is quite possible that applications are now being accepted again on the basis of less than 5 years PR. For anyone in this position, it is worth asking SB but take into account that SB often doesn't know what will happen to applications at the MoI.

[GarryP]

Reading what is going on now, I can't help but think how lucky I was to submit my application (7 June 2012), as the process started to get cleaned up under Anupong Paochinda after the 2014 coup. Probably one of a very limited number of positives coming out of that regime. Now it seems like it is going back to the Thaksin times when under Purachai Piumsomboon, a nasty xenophobic hypocrite. Perhaps Anutin is friends with Purachai as they both seem to have a dislike of foreigners.  

[DrJoy]

6 hours ago, GarryP said:

both seem to have a dislike of foreigners

Absolutely Correct

[Marcati]

At 8:30am this morning I picked up my Citizenship Certificate and other documents from the SB 😊😍💯❤️🤗

 

I immediately went to meet officials at the Chatuchak District Office. They were very nice, reviewed all the documents, made copies, ensured they had the Royal Gazette announcement.

 

Then they informed me they need photos of me, my wife and the owner of the house registration book, inside and outside of the house, and that they MUST come themselves in person to be interviewed with me and my wife by the Head of the District Office before they will allow registration into the blue book and issue the ID card. They cannot give a POA to anyone.

 

Unfortunately, I will have to wait until the middle of next month before the head of the district office is available to do this.

[GarryP]

3 hours ago, Marcati said:

At 8:30am this morning I picked up my Citizenship Certificate and other documents from the SB 😊😍💯❤️🤗

 

I immediately went to meet officials at the Chatuchak District Office. They were very nice, reviewed all the documents, made copies, ensured they had the Royal Gazette announcement.

 

Then they informed me they need photos of me, my wife and the owner of the house registration book, inside and outside of the house, and that they MUST come themselves in person to be interviewed with me and my wife by the Head of the District Office before they will allow registration into the blue book and issue the ID card. They cannot give a POA to anyone.

 

Unfortunately, I will have to wait until the middle of next month before the head of the district office is available to do this.

Congratulations. Seems a bit over the top what they are requiring to clear the last hurdle. I wonder if that is specific to your District Office or this is a new requirement across the board.  Not heard of them requiring this before. 

[onthemoon]

4 hours ago, Marcati said:

At 8:30am this morning I picked up my Citizenship Certificate and other documents from the SB 😊😍💯❤️🤗

 

I immediately went to meet officials at the Chatuchak District Office. They were very nice, reviewed all the documents, made copies, ensured they had the Royal Gazette announcement.

 

Then they informed me they need photos of me, my wife and the owner of the house registration book, inside and outside of the house, and that they MUST come themselves in person to be interviewed with me and my wife by the Head of the District Office before they will allow registration into the blue book and issue the ID card. They cannot give a POA to anyone.

 

Unfortunately, I will have to wait until the middle of next month before the head of the district office is available to do this.

Congratulations to being a Thai citizen!

 

Is this the first time you are on that blue tabien baan, or is all this required just to change your naitionality in it?

[Marcati]

40 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

Congratulations to being a Thai citizen!

 

Is this the first time you are on that blue tabien baan, or is all this required just to change your naitionality in it?

First time. I have a yellow Tabien Baan at that address currently.

[onthemoon]

2 hours ago, Marcati said:

First time. I have a yellow Tabien Baan at that address currently.

I see. I never had a yellow one. When I got the blue one after being granted PR, I also had to bring the landlord and a witness in person. Luckily, it was all within the family.

[Arkady]

8 hours ago, Marcati said:

At 8:30am this morning I picked up my Citizenship Certificate and other documents from the SB 😊😍💯❤️🤗

 

I immediately went to meet officials at the Chatuchak District Office. They were very nice, reviewed all the documents, made copies, ensured they had the Royal Gazette announcement.

 

Then they informed me they need photos of me, my wife and the owner of the house registration book, inside and outside of the house, and that they MUST come themselves in person to be interviewed with me and my wife by the Head of the District Office before they will allow registration into the blue book and issue the ID card. They cannot give a POA to anyone.

 

Unfortunately, I will have to wait until the middle of next month before the head of the district office is available to do this.

 

Congrats.  The district office seems very over the top.  I think Big Joke's grandstanding about naturalized Thai criminals has had an impact.  Let's hope he doesn't make a come back as police chief but that is not at all impossible.

[DrJoy]

23 hours ago, Marcati said:

this morning I picked up my Citizenship Certificate

Congratulations!

[DrJoy]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:28 PM, onthemoon said:

Apparently, the process has changed. That's why there have not been any interviews for 5 months or so

Nope. The new amendments' announced in Jan 2022 have not been implemented as of yet.

They have to be signed by his Excellency and then published in the Royal Gaz, to over ride the old law.

 

As of today Special Police is still accepting applications for Thai citizenship.

 

One main change in the new law is that Special Police would no longer accept applications, new candidates would apply at their Local DOPA office.

 

 

Whoever told you that the law has changed, ask them the date of the RG publication 

Edited May 24 by DrJoy

[onthemoon]

21 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

Nope. The new amendments' announced in Jan 2022 have not been implemented as of yet.

They have to be signed by his Excellency and then published in the Royal Gaz, to over ride the old law.

 

As of today Special Police is still accepting applications for Thai citizenship.

 

One main change in the new law is that Special Police would no longer accept applications, new candidates would apply at their Local DOPA office.

 

 

Whoever told you that the law has changed, ask them the date of the RG publication 

 

It was the DOPA staff who I asked when I could expect to be invited to the MOI interview. They told me that they cannot invite anyone to interviews now, because the Minister said he will change something but had not advised yet what will change. Therefore, it cannot have been announced in the RG.

 

When is the last time you heard about an MOI interview taking place?

[DrJoy]

18 hours ago, onthemoon said:

When is the last time you heard about an MOI interview taking place?

1st Sep 2023 during the reign of Hon'ble Anutin !

[onthemoon]

43 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

1st Sep 2023 during the reign of Hon'ble Anutin !

 

That's more than half a year ago. My point exactly. In the past, they weren't they about monthly? Backlog is increasing.

[DrJoy]

On 5/25/2024 at 10:02 AM, onthemoon said:

 

That's more than half a year ago. My point exactly. In the past, they weren't they about monthly? Backlog is increasing.

Backlog is increasing bcoz of Dr. Anutin, who has a strong anti foreigner sentiment.

 

During pandemic time, he was seen strongly criticizing foreigners for not wearing masks, it was in the news and well documented fact.

 

That explains the delay

[Arun Mai]

On 5/20/2024 at 7:28 AM, onthemoon said:

I am surprised, as I was told at the time that I have to hold PR for 5 years before applying for citizenship. Since they have accepted your application after less than a year, this must have been wrong. Thanks for info.

I was given the same information and also waited more than five years after obtaining PR.  The extra time was due to covid, which delayed my application for citizenship.

[gettingby]

Just checking assumptions here (not overtly meant to editorialise or complain).  I would appreciate any input that contradicts, confirms, or ads insight.  I am just trying to plan for the next couple of years especially as I will be out of the country for extended periods and might not be able to immediately jump and flyback to show up for a call to an MOI interview.

 

I received notification that my application was accepted from Santiban for consideration from MOI on May 1 2023.  After reading the latest few pages in this thread I first congratulate those who recently received citizenship.  It is indeed a long and tiring process.

 

Second, am inclined to believe that :

 

1.  that currently the MOI is still processing and inviting for applicants from 2019 or perhaps 2020 (the year the MOI accepyed these applicants for final processing)

 

2.  the only naturalization annoucements that have gone forward likely with Anupongs old signature and to date nothing has gone anywhere requiring Anutin's signature

 

3.  It appears to be a safe expectation that given the current government, political situation, and political priorites, one can expect to wait 4-6 years for being called in for a MOI interview from the date of the letter notifying MOI has accepted your case from Santiban.  

 

4.  Even so, things have been changing for a while and it may take longer as the MOI looks to replace Sanitban (with DOPA) in the process entirely and there seems no urgency to set and issue new procedures and regulations, much less what to do with applications that have already been vetted by Santiban and the NIA.

 

5.  From the above posts, it feels like DOPA and district officials are already trying to insert themselves in the normal processing such as the "back end" final processes of getting your new national identity documents by adding on their own new internal ad hoc regulations and "needs" for addition documents or signed physical copies (which are already approved in the system and approved by everyone including the Royal Household).  And (like I experienced in getting my PR,  which was certainly not a "welcome to Thailand interview" feeling but rather a show of personal power) they seem to be requiring eyeballing each person and even interviewing that person again (after approval has been announced in the Royal Gazette).

 

6.  This raises a lot of process questions at the least but also begs the question if the district officer doesnt like someone because of the way they look or how they interviewed - imagine if after all the processes, after 20+ years as one above poster asserted, sitting and waiting for a district officer to take an extra hour or two at lunch time and then being asked to sing the royal or national anthem on demand to the district officer and an applicant gets irritated and shows it.  Can the district officer then undo an approval? 

 

7.  In sum, does it seem reasonable that I should realistically expect to be called in for the MOI interview  no earlier than 2026?  This would be also assuming that processing is somehow going on at all right now and that things might get more efficient in second half of 2024.