Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[echrist]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

When do you decide if you want to use a new, Thai name, or keep your original name? 

 

The only thing that might keep me from choosing a Thai name is that, in 8 years when I try to renew my UK passport, there will probably be a problem, ie they don't gives me one, as I have another one with a different name. 

I wonder if I chose the Thai name, if I could change it back to my original name after 8 years. 

Obviously, traveling to the UK, I wouldn't need a visa, just an old passport.

 

One thing that might make me choose a Thai name would be that I might use my UK passport by mistake at a bank or somewhere, which I believe is an offence that could cause Thai citizenship to be revoked.

 

You can never use your UK passport in Thailand if you are a Thai citizen, is this right?

 

Maybe I am thinking too much.

You would change it at the Khet when you are getting your ID. You can change your name at the Khet any time if you like. Thai folk do it all the time. 

[Neeranam]

22 hours ago, echrist said:

You would change it at the Khet when you are getting your ID. You can change your name at the Khet any time if you like. Thai folk do it all the time. 

Thanks.

 

I know I could change it any time, but I doubt if I could change it to a Western sounding name.

In saying that, I know some Thais who changed their names to strange ones.

 

I know there was a website showing available Thai names, but maybe this is only for foreigners in the naturalization process?

[Neeranam]

On 12/27/2019 at 3:26 PM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

I also understood you "could" use your original foreign passport in Thailand for anything that is not related to official or government activities (like rental, membership account...) - but it's also recommended to use your Thai ID card as much as possible since you don't need anything else.

I was hoping that I could keep one bank account, Krung Thai, in my foreign name, as easier getting money sent from abroad. 

 

I wonder if there is a rule that you must inform all bank accounts when you become Thai?

 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

28 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I was hoping that I could keep one bank account, Krung Thai, in my foreign name, as easier getting money sent from abroad. 

 

I wonder if there is a rule that you must inform all bank accounts when you become Thai?

Unless you plan to change your name, I don't see the problem to show your Thai ID card since it has the same name in English on it. In my case it's easier because I can instantly transfer from my euro account to my thb account by online banking so I don't think I'll notify the bank of any change until they request my documents again in the future.

 

I'd also be happy to know who/which entities we have to notify when we get Thai citizenship.

 

[Big Guns]

Some people are getting stressed about nothing. I've had Thai citizenship for over 2 years. Registering a Thai name is a paper exercise that has no impact on any of your official doccuments. Notify your local Amphur for your house book, immigration to cancel work permit & your bank. That's it job done, no stress. If you were known as Tommy Smith before Thai citizenship that will continue to be the case when you are granted citizenship ????

 

[BKKBike09]

On 12/27/2019 at 2:02 PM, Neeranam said:

When do you decide if you want to use a new, Thai name, or keep your original name? 

 

The only thing that might keep me from choosing a Thai name is that, in 8 years when I try to renew my UK passport, there will probably be a problem, ie they don't gives me one, as I have another one with a different name. 

I wonder if I chose the Thai name, if I could change it back to my original name after 8 years. 

Obviously, traveling to the UK, I wouldn't need a visa, just an old passport.

 

One thing that might make me choose a Thai name would be that I might use my UK passport by mistake at a bank or somewhere, which I believe is an offence that could cause Thai citizenship to be revoked.

 

You can never use your UK passport in Thailand if you are a Thai citizen, is this right?

 

Maybe I am thinking too much.

Entering the UK with an expired UK passport would be a bad idea. The e-gates in UK will not work with an expired passport, so you'd have to go to a manned desk. First question would be "why are you travelling on an expired passport?" and things would go downhill from there. I would think it's quite likely, too, that an airline might deny boarding on basis that they don't know if your UK passport has expired simply because you haven't renewed it, or because you're no longer entitled to have a UK passport. 

 

Much easier for everything official either here or in UK to keep your original name and just use the Thai transliteration. Since you'll be a Thai citizen, in Thailand I can't see why you'd ever want to show a UK passport when you have a Thai ID card. Which has the benefit of fitting in a wallet, unlike a passport!

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

Much easier for everything official either here or in UK to keep your original name and just use the Thai transliteration. Since you'll be a Thai citizen, in Thailand I can't see why you'd ever want to show a UK passport when you have a Thai ID card. Which has the benefit of fitting in a wallet, unlike a passport!

What about sending large sums of money from Thailand to the UK? This might be more difficult of not for repatriation purposes. This is what I'm thinking about, ie over 100k pounds. May raised a few eyebrows.

I'd rather keep my bank as a British person, but maybe this is not allowed?

[BKKBike09]

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

What about sending large sums of money from Thailand to the UK? This might be more difficult of not for repatriation purposes. This is what I'm thinking about, ie over 100k pounds. May raised a few eyebrows.

I'd rather keep my bank as a British person, but maybe this is not allowed?

As long as the names on the account in Thailand and account in UK match, it should be no problem. You're more likely to have problems demonstrating source of funds to Bank of Thailand but if you can show evidence of bringing the funds into Thailand in the first place, you should be okay. If you don't have that, then being a Thai national might actually make it easier to send the money out.

[Neeranam]

36 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

As long as the names on the account in Thailand and account in UK match, it should be no problem. You're more likely to have problems demonstrating source of funds to Bank of Thailand but if you can show evidence of bringing the funds into Thailand in the first place, you should be okay. If you don't have that, then being a Thai national might actually make it easier to send the money out.

Perhaps. Things are going to change so much in the next year or two, regarding cross border payments, with XRP etc.

 

[onthemoon]

19 hours ago, Neeranam said:

What about sending large sums of money from Thailand to the UK? This might be more difficult of not for repatriation purposes. This is what I'm thinking about, ie over 100k pounds. May raised a few eyebrows.

I'd rather keep my bank as a British person, but maybe this is not allowed?

I may be mistaken, but I believe that once you have the Thai citizenship, you are required to use only this in Thailand. I don't think you have the choice of still using your original citizenship within the country for any purposes.

[Neeranam]

24 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

I may be mistaken, but I believe that once you have the Thai citizenship, you are required to use only this in Thailand. I don't think you have the choice of still using your original citizenship within the country for any purposes.

That's what I heard and am concerned about. 

[aidenai]

On 12/31/2019 at 10:50 AM, onthemoon said:

I may be mistaken, but I believe that once you have the Thai citizenship, you are required to use only this in Thailand. I don't think you have the choice of still using your original citizenship within the country for any purposes.

Thailand’s Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (AD 1965)

 

Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

1. (1) The naturalization was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;
2. (2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;
3. (3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
4. (4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals;
5. (5) He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;
6. (6) He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.

[david143]

@Neeranam Have you already went for Oath Ceremony or not yet.
as MOI said they send list of names to Minister for sign for every 2 interview Meetings.

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, david143 said:

@Neeranam Have you already went for Oath Ceremony or not yet.
as MOI said they send list of names to Minister for sign for every 2 interview Meetings.

Not yet. Some people are doing it this month.

I expect to be doing it in May, 8 months after my MOI.

[Alex19]

Hi everyone,

 

I've read a lot of mismatching information regarding application based on PR, could anyone clarify this point for me :

 

Is it possible to apply with recent PR and 5 year continuous Work Permit ? (even if this gives a 0 points in a category) ?

A lot of websites disconnects the fact of living in Thailand for 5 years and having a PR.

 

Or is it mandatory to have PR for 5 years ?

 

Thanks !

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 hour ago, Alex19 said:

Hi everyone,

 

I've read a lot of mismatching information regarding application based on PR, could anyone clarify this point for me :

 

Is it possible to apply with recent PR and 5 year continuous Work Permit ? (even if this gives a 0 points in a category) ?

A lot of websites disconnects the fact of living in Thailand for 5 years and having a PR.

 

Or is it mandatory to have PR for 5 years ?

 

Thanks !

PR for 5 years is only required for male applicants who are not married to a Thai national. If your wife is Thai you don't even need PR to apply. Just in case you have PR less than 5 year you will simply apply on the basis on marriage (which is what I did). But in all cases you need 3 years of continuous employment and tax submission.

[bkk_bwana]

A quick note on the wind down / tiei up the ends of the process after receiving the Naturalisation Certificate and stamped copies of the royal gazette announcement from the Police HQ.

 

Went to the Khet - told to come back in a couple of weeks at a specific time with all documents and a witness (Thai, not necessarily resident in the Khet).  Note that every Khet/Amphur will handle this differently.  It looks like they have to file a full report to bring you into the system.  A friend of mine was told to bring two witnesses, but this was a different Khet.

 

ID Card - Appointment at Khet - presented Tabien Baan (blue one - I've had PR for some years), Naturalisation Certificate and copies of passport, surrendered the Pink Card, and announcement from the Royal Gazette. Filing the report and writing the file in the computer took half the time, then we had to wait for the department head to sign off the report, plus lunchtime etc.  Usual story. There was never any question of name change even though I had reserved a Thai name with them earlier.  Four hours later, we walked out of the Khet with my ID card and a modified Tabien Baan. No charges and your first ID card is free!  They even did the photocopying free of charge which was unusual.

 

Passport Office - ID Card, Tabien Baan and "foreign" passport to prove place of birth.  15 minutes.  1,000 Baht. Came back two days later to collect it.  Very smooth and efficient.

 

Immigration Department - One copy of the Royal Gazette announcement and my white book.  Nothing else to do or sign.  I was asked if I had a Thai passport yet and was told never to use my 'foreign' passport either to leave or enter the country.  Three minutes.

 

Local Police Station - Surrendered my Alien Registration Book and gave them a copy of the Royal Gazette announcement.  Nothing to sign or pay.  Two minutes!

 

Work Permit (it had expired after the announcement - just turned it in.  Nothing else to do.

 

Social Security - these guys wanted a copy of EVERYTHING; luckily I had copies available.  I was already in the system with an ID number anyway.  I suggest that you do this BEFORE handing back documents as they seem to be still back in the 1980s and who knows what individual offices might want to see.

 

Bank - Confusion, but it got sorted.  One bank wanted to see the original passport that I used to open the account!  I told them that I handed it back years ago.  Two internal telephone calls later and everything was done.  

 

I guess I should do AIS for Internet and 'phone.  Water and electricity are in my wife's name.

 

One thing that I am now finalising is changing the details in my/our wills to reflect the new nationality.

 

It has been an interesting journey.  Five years and a lot of patience.

 

That's it.

[onthemoon]

17 minutes ago, bkk_bwana said:

A quick note on the wind down / tiei up the ends of the process after receiving the Naturalisation Certificate and stamped copies of the royal gazette announcement from the Police HQ.

 

Went to the Khet - told to come back in a couple of weeks at a specific time with all documents and a witness (Thai, not necessarily resident in the Khet).  Note that every Khet/Amphur will handle this differently.  It looks like they have to file a full report to bring you into the system.  A friend of mine was told to bring two witnesses, but this was a different Khet.

 

ID Card - Appointment at Khet - presented Tabien Baan (blue one - I've had PR for some years), Naturalisation Certificate and copies of passport, surrendered the Pink Card, and announcement from the Royal Gazette. Filing the report and writing the file in the computer took half the time, then we had to wait for the department head to sign off the report, plus lunchtime etc.  Usual story. There was never any question of name change even though I had reserved a Thai name with them earlier.  Four hours later, we walked out of the Khet with my ID card and a modified Tabien Baan. No charges and your first ID card is free!  They even did the photocopying free of charge which was unusual.

 

Passport Office - ID Card, Tabien Baan and "foreign" passport to prove place of birth.  15 minutes.  1,000 Baht. Came back two days later to collect it.  Very smooth and efficient.

 

Immigration Department - One copy of the Royal Gazette announcement and my white book.  Nothing else to do or sign.  I was asked if I had a Thai passport yet and was told never to use my 'foreign' passport either to leave or enter the country.  Three minutes.

 

Local Police Station - Surrendered my Alien Registration Book and gave them a copy of the Royal Gazette announcement.  Nothing to sign or pay.  Two minutes!

 

Work Permit (it had expired after the announcement - just turned it in.  Nothing else to do.

 

Social Security - these guys wanted a copy of EVERYTHING; luckily I had copies available.  I was already in the system with an ID number anyway.  I suggest that you do this BEFORE handing back documents as they seem to be still back in the 1980s and who knows what individual offices might want to see.

 

Bank - Confusion, but it got sorted.  One bank wanted to see the original passport that I used to open the account!  I told them that I handed it back years ago.  Two internal telephone calls later and everything was done.  

 

I guess I should do AIS for Internet and 'phone.  Water and electricity are in my wife's name.

 

One thing that I am now finalising is changing the details in my/our wills to reflect the new nationality.

 

It has been an interesting journey.  Five years and a lot of patience.

 

That's it.

Congratulations! And thanks for this list.

[khongaeng]

Bkk_bwana thank you for the extra details, very interesting and helpful. You comment about letting your work permit expire in the period between royal gazette and getting your ID card - was this something you were told you could do, or did you just take a chance. I thought that you had to maintain a work permit until you had the shiny new Thai ID card in your hand?

[GabbaGabbaHey]

5 hours ago, khongaeng said:

Bkk_bwana thank you for the extra details, very interesting and helpful. You comment about letting your work permit expire in the period between royal gazette and getting your ID card - was this something you were told you could do, or did you just take a chance. I thought that you had to maintain a work permit until you had the shiny new Thai ID card in your hand?

Perhaps I'm wrong but what I understand is that bkk_bwana had PR which is a category allowed to reside in the country without a job, meaning if a current work permit expires there is no obligation to get a new one if you have resources. Which is different than non-PR holders which, should their employment terminate, must leave the country within 7 days if their visa is linked to WP ( I'm just not sure for non-PR people who use marriage visa: what would happens if their job terminates, but I guess they can remain in Thailand at least until the current annual visa expires - extending it later would likely be an issue).

 

But maybe let's have bkk_bwana confirm. Since I'm also PR holder I'd be happy to know there is no problem going to pick the citizenship certificate without a valid WP.

 

[onthemoon]

21 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Perhaps I'm wrong but what I understand is that bkk_bwana had PR which is a category allowed to reside in the country without a job, meaning if a current work permit expires there is no obligation to get a new one if you have resources. Which is different than non-PR holders which, should their employment terminate, must leave the country within 7 days if their visa is linked to WP ( I'm just not sure for non-PR people who use marriage visa: what would happens if their job terminates, but I guess they can remain in Thailand at least until the current annual visa expires - extending it later would likely be an issue).

 

But maybe let's have bkk_bwana confirm. Since I'm also PR holder I'd be happy to know there is no problem going to pick the citizenship certificate without a valid WP.

 

Without a WP, you can stay in Thailand (if you have PR), but you are not allowed to work. The question is when he became a Thai citizen, so he wouldn't need the WP - and that is the day it was announced in the Royal Gazette. 

 

But then, if the WP expired just short before the announcement, I don't think they would give him any trouble. The issue became moot.

[Neeranam]

On 1/10/2020 at 1:30 PM, bkk_bwana said:

A quick note on the wind down / tiei up the ends of the process after receiving the Naturalisation Certificate and stamped copies of the royal gazette announcement from the Police HQ.

I was advised to ask for several copies of these documents. 

 

I wonder how many is the limit.

[echrist]

On 1/10/2020 at 1:30 PM, bkk_bwana said:

A quick note on the wind down / tiei up the ends of the process after receiving the Naturalisation Certificate and stamped copies of the royal gazette announcement from the Police HQ.

 

Went to the Khet - told to come back in a couple of weeks at a specific time with all documents and a witness (Thai, not necessarily resident in the Khet).  Note that every Khet/Amphur will handle this differently.  It looks like they have to file a full report to bring you into the system.  A friend of mine was told to bring two witnesses, but this was a different Khet.

 

ID Card - Appointment at Khet - presented Tabien Baan (blue one - I've had PR for some years), Naturalisation Certificate and copies of passport, surrendered the Pink Card, and announcement from the Royal Gazette. Filing the report and writing the file in the computer took half the time, then we had to wait for the department head to sign off the report, plus lunchtime etc.  Usual story. There was never any question of name change even though I had reserved a Thai name with them earlier.  Four hours later, we walked out of the Khet with my ID card and a modified Tabien Baan. No charges and your first ID card is free!  They even did the photocopying free of charge which was unusual.

 

Passport Office - ID Card, Tabien Baan and "foreign" passport to prove place of birth.  15 minutes.  1,000 Baht. Came back two days later to collect it.  Very smooth and efficient.

 

Immigration Department - One copy of the Royal Gazette announcement and my white book.  Nothing else to do or sign.  I was asked if I had a Thai passport yet and was told never to use my 'foreign' passport either to leave or enter the country.  Three minutes.

 

Local Police Station - Surrendered my Alien Registration Book and gave them a copy of the Royal Gazette announcement.  Nothing to sign or pay.  Two minutes!

 

Work Permit (it had expired after the announcement - just turned it in.  Nothing else to do.

 

Social Security - these guys wanted a copy of EVERYTHING; luckily I had copies available.  I was already in the system with an ID number anyway.  I suggest that you do this BEFORE handing back documents as they seem to be still back in the 1980s and who knows what individual offices might want to see.

 

Bank - Confusion, but it got sorted.  One bank wanted to see the original passport that I used to open the account!  I told them that I handed it back years ago.  Two internal telephone calls later and everything was done.  

 

I guess I should do AIS for Internet and 'phone.  Water and electricity are in my wife's name.

 

One thing that I am now finalising is changing the details in my/our wills to reflect the new nationality.

 

It has been an interesting journey.  Five years and a lot of patience.

 

That's it.

I was at immigration for 5 hours to cancel my visa (i never had PR). they require you to queue up with all the poor guys renewing their visas ???? also seem not so aware of the process of canceling a visa. treated me a bit as if i was asking permission to extend the visa.  good for you that surrendering PR was more efficient. if i had to do it over again, i would have left the country on a short weekend trip and returned on my thai passport. 

[onthemoon]

11 hours ago, echrist said:

I was at immigration for 5 hours to cancel my visa (i never had PR). they require you to queue up with all the poor guys renewing their visas ???? also seem not so aware of the process of canceling a visa. treated me a bit as if i was asking permission to extend the visa.  good for you that surrendering PR was more efficient. if i had to do it over again, i would have left the country on a short weekend trip and returned on my thai passport. 

Good you didn't do it - you are not allowed to use your foreign passport any more, so it would have been problematic to leave the country on it...

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Good you didn't do it - you are not allowed to use your foreign passport any more, so it would have been problematic to leave the country on it...

The immigration wouldn't know you had a Thai Passport, would they?

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Neeranam

[khongaeng]

16 hours ago, Neeranam said:

The immigration wouldn't know you had a Thai Passport, would they?

 

 

The first time my child entered Thailand on his newly obtained Thai Passport from overseas, he was questioned at immigration.  Since it is expected that you have an exit stamp already in your passport when you "come back to Thailand" this raises questions.  This was in the years before the electronic gates.  Another child who obtained a Thai passport while in Thailand after entering Thailand on a foreign passport and then "overstaying" was able to get through immigration at the airport with minimal hassle. Of course this child had Thai nationality through birth through their parent, so I'm not sure if it is different treatment than a naturalized Thai.

 

I do like the idea of just exiting Thailand on your foreign passport and then re-entering using your Thai passport, instead of going through the trouble of cancelling your visa at immigration.  I asked immigration at the overstay fine counter at Suvarnabhumi last time I was there, and they seemed to not be 100% confident in what should be done, but said that I had to go to immigration at Chaengwattana to cancel my visa before flying.  It would be great if someone who has experience in doing this could chime in.

 

When the day comes that I finally have a Thai passport, I think that I will do it this way and use the e-gates.  If I am questioned, I will say, "sorry I didn't know I had to cancel my visa first and exit Thailand as a Thai, and my paperwork to cancel my previous nationality has not been finalized yet" which is true in my case because in my case renouncing citizenship is not a simple one stop at my embassy.  

[yankee99]

15 minutes ago, khongaeng said:

The first time my child entered Thailand on his newly obtained Thai Passport from overseas, he was questioned at immigration.  Since it is expected that you have an exit stamp already in your passport when you "come back to Thailand" this raises questions.  This was in the years before the electronic gates.  Another child who obtained a Thai passport while in Thailand after entering Thailand on a foreign passport and then "overstaying" was able to get through immigration at the airport with minimal hassle. Of course this child had Thai nationality through birth through their parent, so I'm not sure if it is different treatment than a naturalized Thai.

 

I do like the idea of just exiting Thailand on your foreign passport and then re-entering using your Thai passport, instead of going through the trouble of cancelling your visa at immigration.  I asked immigration at the overstay fine counter at Suvarnabhumi last time I was there, and they seemed to not be 100% confident in what should be done, but said that I had to go to immigration at Chaengwattana to cancel my visa before flying.  It would be great if someone who has experience in doing this could chime in.

 

When the day comes that I finally have a Thai passport, I think that I will do it this way and use the e-gates.  If I am questioned, I will say, "sorry I didn't know I had to cancel my visa first and exit Thailand as a Thai, and my paperwork to cancel my previous nationality has not been finalized yet" which is true in my case because in my case renouncing citizenship is not a simple one stop at my embassy.  

When my time comes hopefully it comes. I'll most likely have 3-4 years in this so im not stressing about 3-4 hours at immigration. Doesn't seem worth the shortcut to me. 

[GarryP]

34 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

When my time comes hopefully it comes. I'll most likely have 3-4 years in this so im not stressing about 3-4 hours at immigration. Doesn't seem worth the shortcut to me. 

I agree with you totally on this.

 

If you extended your visa at a one-stop service center, e.g. Chamchuree, you just go in and cancel your visa there. If the extension is based on marriage and you are registered in Bangkok you need to to to Chaengwattana. I had extended my visa for more than 20 years at Chaengwattana based on marriage, and only just changed to extension based on work at Chamchuree, so foolishly went to Chaengwattana to cancel the visa. After sitting around for half a day I was told I had to do it at Chamchuree. Taxi across town, I got there in time to pick up one of the last queue numbers. Two hours later and I was out of there with my visa cancelled. I must admit that they were not really sure about the procedure but everything has worked out fine to date.

 

Had I gone straight to Chamchuree, it would have been over in a couple of hours, which is nothing in the scheme of things. I would not wish to screw things up by testing out any other 'process', especially as use of a foreign passport in Thailand when you are a Thai citizen could be viewed as a reason to cancel your citizenship. Why take the risk after all the time you have spent in getting Thai citizenship in the first place. It is not as if you are not used to dealing with officialdom by this point.    

[bkk_bwana]

On 1/12/2020 at 12:05 PM, onthemoon said:

Without a WP, you can stay in Thailand (if you have PR), but you are not allowed to work. The question is when he became a Thai citizen, so he wouldn't need the WP - and that is the day it was announced in the Royal Gazette. 

 

But then, if the WP expired just short before the announcement, I don't think they would give him any trouble. The issue became moot.

My work permit expired AFTER the announcement in the Gazette, so I just let it go.  Generally, they all seemed very disinterested in the Work Permit.  None of the departments asked to see it.  I was lucky when I went to immigration, although my queue number seemed to jumped the other people waiting.  I made a point of telling the officer that issues the queue numbers that I had received citizenship (showed ID card) and that I wanted to return my book and cancel my visa.

[khongaeng]

3 hours ago, yankee99 said:

When my time comes hopefully it comes. I'll most likely have 3-4 years in this so im not stressing about 3-4 hours at immigration. Doesn't seem worth the shortcut to me. 

True... Good point.  Not worth taking any chances after such a long process.