Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Mario2008]

Can only comment on having PR, if you have a Thai wife there is no need to have PR first (but must be married for 3 years, only 1 year when you have a child together). So presume that in your case of having a Thai child you do not need to go through PR first. But it is special branch, nationality branch, at police HQ that can advise you the best regarding this. I don't think many people will have applied based on having a Thai child.

But must be registered in a household registration if no PR if I recall correctly. There was some discussing about this point a while back.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Mario2008

[Arkady]

I have now read all the 32 pages in this excellent thread (special thanks to Arkady), far too fast to be certain I didn’t miss anything after page 20 though… I need to confirm a couple of things;

Is it a fixed rule that one must have made charitable donations?

Does the letter certifying the applicant’s employment really have to be stamped with a company seal? I work for an American multinational that happens to know that stamping legal documents with a company seal is not required according to Thai law and they therefore refuse to do it. Caused me some problems when doing my PR application…

Latest status for people with PR. Do they have to have PR for 5 years before applying or not?

My PR application is in but as with so many others, it is still collecting dust somewhere => No PR yet and I am not married although I have a Thai daughter. Any way I can apply for a Thai citizenship without being married or do I just have to wait for the PR?

Thanks

MikeyIdea

Re marriage to a Thai. Sorry to say that you do need to be married to a Thai to get exemption from the requirement to have PR. The 2008 Nationality amended Section 11 to give exemption from the requirement for 5 years' residence and knowledge of the Thai language thus:

11.4 is husband of a person with Thai nationality.

The ministerial guidelines, on the other hand, reduce the minimum salary to Bt 40k, if you have a Thai spouse or child but cannot override the Act. You need to be married for three years or one year with a child together and there is no way around this.

Charitable donations are a requirement. The guidelines are not specific about how much has to be donated or over what period. They just say that the donation must not have been made simply to qualify. That seems to mean that they want to see a pattern of donations over at least 2 or 3 years, rather than a large dollup the day before. I don't think they are too demanding over the amount - probably 5-10k per donation will do but make sure it is a registered charity and that you get an official receipt. If you have no favourite charity, you can go down to the Thai Red Cross and donate cash for an immediate official receipt in Thai with your name spelled as on your tabien baan.

Re 5 years' PR, the ministerial guidelines explicitly interpret the 5 years' residence required by the Act thus:

They should have been permanently resident in the Kingdom of Thailand for not less than 5 years counted from the date they received their Certificate of Residence, Alien Registration Book or House Registration Certificate (Thor Ror 14) that proves incontrovertibly that they have been permanently resident in Thailand for not less than 5 years.

However, The Chief Justice, who applied successfully in 2007 or 2008 reported in TV as follows:

When I applied I had been in Thailand for 10 years on continuous Non-Imm B visas and I had had my PR for a little over 3 years. The thing that proved my residence in Thailand was from my unbroken Non-Imm B visas. Also, they went through my passport with a fine tooth comb and counted every single stamp in and out to make sure that after all was said and done I had been in Thailand for at least 5 years before applying and that I had not let any of my visas lapse at any time, thereby breaking the chain of residence.

I believe that the MoI's attitude on this wavered for a while at that time but I am not sure this is still possible today. SB told me that some applicants had been knocked back after their interviews because they had less than 5 years' PR at the time of application. Obviously SB had accepted them, believing they would be OK but it is the MoI's view that counts. If in doubt, it would be best to call the MoI direct for an opinion. The police can and do make mistakes, largely because they don't have a close relationship with the MoI and the latter's policies can change.

Re company stamp. This is a peculiar attitude, refusing to comply with local corporate practices which don't do any harm, even though they may be different from practices in the US. I am sure they are right that there is nothing in the Civil and Commercial Code to require a company to endorse the authorised signatory's signature with a rubber stamp but the standard wording in a company affidavit provides for this. Real smarty pants can no doubt insist on filing a company affidavit that allows for the signatures without a rubber stamp, if they want to prove an arcane legal point and don't mind causing a lot of trouble for their staff but why????? Whatever it says in the CCC and the company's affidavit Thai government departments are entitled to make up whatever regulations they feel like and, if they refuse to accept documents without a rubber stamp, what is the company going to do? Sue them in the administrative court and almost certainly lose? Even if you persuade the police that the letter is OK without a rubber stamp, you run a reasonable risk that the MoI will reject it years later without giving you the chance to explain it to them and you will be back to square one courtesy of your bloody minded employer. First step would be to look at the company's affidavit and see whether it really doesn't require a rubber stamp. You can pay a messenger a small sum to get the latest version of this from the DBD, if you prefer not to ask the company for it.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Arkady

[MikeyIdea]

Thank you for excellent answer Arkady

It seems that I will have to wait, I don't want to marry legally again. My PR will come one day and I will check again then. If I have to wait another 5 years to be on the safe side, then I'll do that. Thailand teaches patience well

Thanks Arkady

[chrisbinbkk99]

Thanks Mario and good to see you  I had to stop posting in the family forum as work got affected but I still read it, I still get PMs from members sometimes

 

Yes, I read that and it does indeed seem to be enough. Good News 

 

3 questions left

Is it a fixed rule that one must have made charitable donations?

 

Does the letter certifying the applicant’s employment really have to be stamped with a company seal? I work for an American multinational that happens to know that stamping legal documents with a company seal is not required according to Thai law and they therefore refuse to do it. Caused me some problems when doing my PR application…

 

Latest status for people with PR. Do they have to have PR for 5 years before applying or not?

 

MikeyIdea

For my charity document I had the rotary club I was a member of for 6 years here write a letter explaining I was the fund raising director and helped raise xxx baht etc...

Sent from my GT-I9300

[MacWalen]

My question is what if you said that you do have two passports! What would the immigration do? Also if you leave the country and they ask you where you go, you say you go to US and they ask you where is a US visa in your Thai passport? It is not hard to find out that you still hold two passports. If they do find out will they take your Thai passport away? What is the possible outcome?

This has been discussed earlier in this thread and elsewhere but it is still an interesting and important question. The Nationality Act is vague on this point but does nonetheless contain some apparently troubling provisions including the grounds for revocation of nationality of naturalized Thais:

"Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalisation if it appears that:

(1) The naturalisation was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;

(2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

(3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;

(4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals;

(5) He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;

(6) He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.

The revocation of Thai nationality under this section may extend to children of a person whose Thai nationality is revoked in case such children are not sui juris and acquire Thai nationality under Section 12, paragraph two and the Minister shall, after the order for revocation of Thai nationality has been given, shall submit the matter to the King for information."

Para 2 provides the right to revoke nationality where there is evidence of using a former nationality. On the other hand neither the Act nor the ministerial regulations say that the former nationalilty should be surrendered after naturalisation as Thai has taken place, nor that dual nationality is prohibited, nor does it define what is meant by "making use of his former nationality". Travelling to another country without getting a visa in one's Thai passport is clearly making use of the former nationality in the broad sense but it has no impact on Thailand or its legal system and the naturalized Thai is technically only making use of the former nationality outside Thailand in that case. A naturalized Thai who used his former nationalilty to enter Thailand under a different name to avoid criminal or civil charges or military service on the other hand would clearly be using the former nationality within Thailand in a way that does impinge on the Thai legal system.

Current practice seems to be that Immigration officers often (but not always) ask dual nationals if they have another passport when they are leaving Thailand for a country for which Thais need to visa, although this seems to be only out of concern that they might be turned back if they need a visa.

The negative seems to be that the law is contradictory but does seem to provide a means for a change of attitude towards naturalized Thais. While the government may wish to do this to make things more difficult for dual national Malay Thais in the Deep South, the law doesn't actually provide for this. This is because the provisions for revocation of nationality apply only to naturalized Thais and those who are Thai by birth, i.e. born in Thailand to alien parents. There is no legal way to revoke the nationality of any one who is Thai by descent, i.e. has at least one Thai parent. Nearly all the Malay Thais in the South are Thai by descent and therefore it is not possible to use these provisions against them, although the Malaysians could deal with them, if they wanted to, as they have specific prohibitions against dual nationality.

While virtually anything is possible in Thailand, including a crack down on naturalized Thais exiting Thailand on route for the US without US visas in their Thai passports, I see this as unlikely. This is because a crack down of this nature would net a large number of dual nationals who are Thai by descent, including thousands of look krung, and can't be penalized. Having put naturalized Thais through such detailed application and vetting procedures, but not required them to show evidence of former nationality after naturalization (as some countries do) it would be odd to strip their nationality on an ambiguous point of law.

What cannot be discounted is a future change of The Nationality Act that might specifically make dual nationality illegal. To be meaningful and have an impact on the security situation in the South this provision would have to apply to dual nationals who are Thai by descent as well, i.e. acquiring or holding another nationalitly would automatically made the Thai nationality invalid. I think there would be resistance to this, since it would make life difficult for many dual national hi-so Thais, as well as the thousands of look krung with Thai mothers who became entitled to Thai nationalilty as a result of The Nationality Act of 1992. The trend on nationality in the 1992 and 2008 Acts has been creeping liberalization and there is obviously an influential body of opinion that favours this. A more draconian approach towards nationality would reminiscient of Revolutionary Decree 337 in 1971 which suddenly stripped citizenship from thousands of Thais of Chinese, Indochinese and other origins born in the Kingdom to alien parents and prevented Thai women from passing on their nationality to their offspring. I believe that many Interior Ministry bureaucrats believe that this legislation was shameful and, since the early 90s they have been advising successive governments to repeal the decree bit by bit. The Nationality Act of 2008 effectively repealed the last remnants of Revolutionary Decree 337, i.e. the right to Thai nationality for those born in the Kingdom to alien parents, even though this seems to be retroactive in practice only for those born in Thailand up till 1992. It is nonetheless a big step for many stateless people, if they can figure out how to persuade district officers to issue them with ID cards in accordance with the law.

Opinion amongst farang naturalized Thais seems divided. I know some who get visas to travel to Western countries to play safe or (expensively and tediously) avoid the issue by flying via Hong Kong or Singapore, while others seem to breeze through Suwarnaphumi with a visaless Thai passport without problems. The loophole for Brits to get certificates of entitlement (permanent UK residence) stamped in their Thai passports is now closed, as these are no longer issued to British dual nationals. It is a decision for all to make when they get their Thai nationality, if they plan to visit Western countries directly from Thailand.

Arkady, very useful indeed. Thanks.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Mario2008
ouble qoute removed

[Arkady]

My question is what if you said that you do have two passports! What would the immigration do? Also if you leave the country and they ask you where you go, you say you go to US and they ask you where is a US visa in your Thai passport? It is not hard to find out that you still hold two passports. If they do find out will they take your Thai passport away? What is the possible outcome?

This has been discussed earlier in this thread and elsewhere but it is still an interesting and important question. The Nationality Act is vague on this point but does nonetheless contain some apparently troubling provisions including the grounds for revocation of nationality of naturalized Thais:

"Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalisation if it appears that:

(1) The naturalisation was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;

(2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

(3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;

(4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals;

(5) He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;

(6) He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.

The revocation of Thai nationality under this section may extend to children of a person whose Thai nationality is revoked in case such children are not sui juris and acquire Thai nationality under Section 12, paragraph two and the Minister shall, after the order for revocation of Thai nationality has been given, shall submit the matter to the King for information."

Para 2 provides the right to revoke nationality where there is evidence of using a former nationality. On the other hand neither the Act nor the ministerial regulations say that the former nationalilty should be surrendered after naturalisation as Thai has taken place, nor that dual nationality is prohibited, nor does it define what is meant by "making use of his former nationality". Travelling to another country without getting a visa in one's Thai passport is clearly making use of the former nationality in the broad sense but it has no impact on Thailand or its legal system and the naturalized Thai is technically only making use of the former nationality outside Thailand in that case. A naturalized Thai who used his former nationalilty to enter Thailand under a different name to avoid criminal or civil charges or military service on the other hand would clearly be using the former nationality within Thailand in a way that does impinge on the Thai legal system.

Current practice seems to be that Immigration officers often (but not always) ask dual nationals if they have another passport when they are leaving Thailand for a country for which Thais need to visa, although this seems to be only out of concern that they might be turned back if they need a visa.

The negative seems to be that the law is contradictory but does seem to provide a means for a change of attitude towards naturalized Thais. While the government may wish to do this to make things more difficult for dual national Malay Thais in the Deep South, the law doesn't actually provide for this. This is because the provisions for revocation of nationality apply only to naturalized Thais and those who are Thai by birth, i.e. born in Thailand to alien parents. There is no legal way to revoke the nationality of any one who is Thai by descent, i.e. has at least one Thai parent. Nearly all the Malay Thais in the South are Thai by descent and therefore it is not possible to use these provisions against them, although the Malaysians could deal with them, if they wanted to, as they have specific prohibitions against dual nationality.

While virtually anything is possible in Thailand, including a crack down on naturalized Thais exiting Thailand on route for the US without US visas in their Thai passports, I see this as unlikely. This is because a crack down of this nature would net a large number of dual nationals who are Thai by descent, including thousands of look krung, and can't be penalized. Having put naturalized Thais through such detailed application and vetting procedures, but not required them to show evidence of former nationality after naturalization (as some countries do) it would be odd to strip their nationality on an ambiguous point of law.

What cannot be discounted is a future change of The Nationality Act that might specifically make dual nationality illegal. To be meaningful and have an impact on the security situation in the South this provision would have to apply to dual nationals who are Thai by descent as well, i.e. acquiring or holding another nationalitly would automatically made the Thai nationality invalid. I think there would be resistance to this, since it would make life difficult for many dual national hi-so Thais, as well as the thousands of look krung with Thai mothers who became entitled to Thai nationalilty as a result of The Nationality Act of 1992. The trend on nationality in the 1992 and 2008 Acts has been creeping liberalization and there is obviously an influential body of opinion that favours this. A more draconian approach towards nationality would reminiscient of Revolutionary Decree 337 in 1971 which suddenly stripped citizenship from thousands of Thais of Chinese, Indochinese and other origins born in the Kingdom to alien parents and prevented Thai women from passing on their nationality to their offspring. I believe that many Interior Ministry bureaucrats believe that this legislation was shameful and, since the early 90s they have been advising successive governments to repeal the decree bit by bit. The Nationality Act of 2008 effectively repealed the last remnants of Revolutionary Decree 337, i.e. the right to Thai nationality for those born in the Kingdom to alien parents, even though this seems to be retroactive in practice only for those born in Thailand up till 1992. It is nonetheless a big step for many stateless people, if they can figure out how to persuade district officers to issue them with ID cards in accordance with the law.

Opinion amongst farang naturalized Thais seems divided. I know some who get visas to travel to Western countries to play safe or (expensively and tediously) avoid the issue by flying via Hong Kong or Singapore, while others seem to breeze through Suwarnaphumi with a visaless Thai passport without problems. The loophole for Brits to get certificates of entitlement (permanent UK residence) stamped in their Thai passports is now closed, as these are no longer issued to British dual nationals. It is a decision for all to make when they get their Thai nationality, if they plan to visit Western countries directly from Thailand.

Arkady, very useful indeed. Thanks.

There have been some slight changes since I posted this in 2009. One is that a new interior ministry requirement came into effect in 2010 for applicants for naturalisation to submit a declaration certified by their embassy to the effect that they intend to renounce existing nationality when granted Thai nationality. The ministry has also started to send letters to successful applicants' embassies. The second thing is the introduction of electronic gates for Thai passports at Swampy.

Most applicants are from India, China and Taiwan. The Taiwanese don't have a problem - there is a huge community of dual national Taiwanese in the US. It is only a problem the other way round for people getting Taiwanese nationality who need to give up their nationality of birth before they can get Taiwanese nationality, resulting in many Asian women becoming stateless when their Taiwanese husbands kick them out before their naturalisation is complete. Indians tend to renounce their Indian nationality and take up Indian Nationality Overseas (a sticker in their new passports) instead which gives them full rights, except political rights, and this status can be passed on for 2 or 3 generations. I am not sure about the Chinese. Technically their nationality law prohibits dual nationality but this law was only introduced as a result of pressure from SE Asian countries in the 70s as a pre-condition for normalisation of relations. Previously anyone with a Chinese father was automatically Chinese to the nth generation (just like Thai nationality) and SE Asian countries saw this as extraterritoriality and a means of infiltrating communist 5th columns. China seems ambivalent about this law that was forced upon them and there are now millions of expatriate Chinese living abroad with another nationality who travel to China on foreign passports for consular protection but keep their Chinese ID cards up to date and buy land etc. I don't know what the reaction of their embassy is to such a letter from the MoI. For Singaporeans, Malaysians and Koreans it would result in almost instant revocation of nationality. Germans, Austrians, Dutch, Danes & etc would also have some explaining to do. Anyway the measure is probably fairly effective without having to change the law which might be difficult, since the declaration and the letter to the embassy is likely to have a significant effect on the thinking of the majority of applicants, particularly Chinese and Indians who must account for the majority. Personally I think the reason for the declaration was the bureaucrats' fear of being overrun when the law had to be amended for constitutional reasons to allow men with Thai wives to bypass PR. There are minutes available online of a meeting of the MoI's legal committee discussing the bill of the 2008 Nationality Act just before it was promulgated that make this sentiment very clear and, indeed, the MoI was able to stiffen the requirements for males with Thai wives in the original bill which would have allowed them to apply in exactly the same way as women with Thai husbands.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Arkady

[Arkady]

For those interested in the thinking behind the process that is the subject of this thread, history provides some useful insight. I quote from A History of Thailand by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit, published by Cambridge University Press, p.138:

"Since the mid 1930s two commissions had been appointed to consider what to do about the question of nationality for the large numbers of Chinese who had arrived in recent decades. A few first generation immigrants had petitioned to adopt Thai nationality but there was no mechanism. In April 1939, a law was passed enabling people to change their nationality to Thai as long as they disclaimed any loyalty to China and proved their loyalty to Siam by speaking the language, changing their names and educating their children at Thai schools. In the first year only 104 passed these rigorous checks but they were an important group. Virtually all were wealthy merchants, mine owners and industrialists."

They go on to explain how this group somewhat ironically went on to provide the know how and management the Fascist inspired government of the day needed to run the state enterprises it was setting up to remove economic influence from the Chinese and, to a lesser extent, farangs. The latter group were actually more of a problem due to the unequal treaties they had imposed on Siam that prevented the government from raising import duties to protect the new state enterprises and Chinese manufacturers. No mention of tea money paid by the first 104 successful applicants is made in the book but the implication is clear.

Under the first Nationality Act of 1913 naturalisation was a royal prerogative and early announcements of naturalisations in the Royal Gazette seem to favour farangs disproportionately, compared to the far more numerous Chinese. Probably many of these farangs were royal advisors hired to modernise various aspects of ministries, the military and the police. For most Chinese being born in Siam as a second generation immigrant was the only available route to Thai nationality. Even so, some chose not to take it, in order to avoid military service which meant that their Thai Chinese wives were stripped of their Thai nationality on marriage.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Arkady

[Oasis]

Are there any applicants signed by outgoing MOI Minister during his 6-7 months in office for Thai citizenship? Expect more delays as new Minister is coming. Amazing Thailand always amazes you really.

[Arkady]

Are there any applicants signed by outgoing MOI Minister during his 6-7 months in office for Thai citizenship? Expect more delays as new Minister is coming. Amazing Thailand always amazes you really.

I was told by a source that he signed for a family of 4 applying together a couple of weeks ago but it is impossible to verify, since ministerial signings are not public information. Anyway it seems that he signed very few.

Press rumours seem to have Chaturon as front runner for next IM. Since he is a former student activist politico and not from the bureaucracy, it is likely he wouldn't take any interest in the process and would let the bureaucrats continue to run things as they like, i.e. very slowly. Anyway the next cabinet is going to be tasked with cleaning up the party's image enough in a few short months to go for a snap election and come back with a big enough majority to ram through the constitutional changes and amnesty for the Boss. Leaving them in place too long would just lead to the same old problems again.

[sas_cars]

Are there any applicants signed by outgoing MOI Minister during his 6-7 months in office for Thai citizenship? Expect more delays as new Minister is coming. Amazing Thailand always amazes you really.

I was told by a source that he signed for a family of 4 applying together a couple of weeks ago but it is impossible to verify, since ministerial signings are not public information. Anyway it seems that he signed very few.

Press rumours seem to have Chaturon as front runner for next IM. Since he is a former student activist politico and not from the bureaucracy, it is likely he wouldn't take any interest in the process and would let the bureaucrats continue to run things as they like, i.e. very slowly. Anyway the next cabinet is going to be tasked with cleaning up the party's image enough in a few short months to go for a snap election and come back with a big enough majority to ram through the constitutional changes and amnesty for the Boss. Leaving them in place too long would just lead to the same old problems again.

If so, then the picture isn't any rosy for PR and citizenship applicants. Assuming Chaturon doesn't sign any in his tenure, then who knows about the next IM will sign or not either.

[Arkady]

Are there any applicants signed by outgoing MOI Minister during his 6-7 months in office for Thai citizenship? Expect more delays as new Minister is coming. Amazing Thailand always amazes you really.

I was told by a source that he signed for a family of 4 applying together a couple of weeks ago but it is impossible to verify, since ministerial signings are not public information. Anyway it seems that he signed very few.

Press rumours seem to have Chaturon as front runner for next IM. Since he is a former student activist politico and not from the bureaucracy, it is likely he wouldn't take any interest in the process and would let the bureaucrats continue to run things as they like, i.e. very slowly. Anyway the next cabinet is going to be tasked with cleaning up the party's image enough in a few short months to go for a snap election and come back with a big enough majority to ram through the constitutional changes and amnesty for the Boss. Leaving them in place too long would just lead to the same old problems again.

If so, then the picture isn't any rosy for PR and citizenship applicants. Assuming Chaturon doesn't sign any in his tenure, then who knows about the next IM will sign or not either.

Who knows. It is up to the bureaucrats to push them to sign but IMs lasting only a few months doesn't help at all. Sometimes outgoing ministers will sign a heap of stuff in their in tray. Sometimes not. I am afraid that this pattern of revolving door IMs will continue while PT is in power for the indefinite future. They have so many months to feed and the IM job is the highest reward for political favours with even a few months there providing some nice nest feathering. Meanwhile the puppet master is impatient for results and always keen to call for another rotation when he doesn't get what he wants.

[sas_cars]

Are there any applicants signed by outgoing MOI Minister during his 6-7 months in office for Thai citizenship? Expect more delays as new Minister is coming. Amazing Thailand always amazes you really.

I was told by a source that he signed for a family of 4 applying together a couple of weeks ago but it is impossible to verify, since ministerial signings are not public information. Anyway it seems that he signed very few.

Press rumours seem to have Chaturon as front runner for next IM. Since he is a former student activist politico and not from the bureaucracy, it is likely he wouldn't take any interest in the process and would let the bureaucrats continue to run things as they like, i.e. very slowly. Anyway the next cabinet is going to be tasked with cleaning up the party's image enough in a few short months to go for a snap election and come back with a big enough majority to ram through the constitutional changes and amnesty for the Boss. Leaving them in place too long would just lead to the same old problems again.

If so, then the picture isn't any rosy for PR and citizenship applicants. Assuming Chaturon doesn't sign any in his tenure, then who knows about the next IM will sign or not either.

Who knows. It is up to the bureaucrats to push them to sign but IMs lasting only a few months doesn't help at all. Sometimes outgoing ministers will sign a heap of stuff in their in tray. Sometimes not. I am afraid that this pattern of revolving door IMs will continue while PT is in power for the indefinite future. They have so many months to feed and the IM job is the highest reward for political favours with even a few months there providing some nice nest feathering. Meanwhile the puppet master is impatient for results and always keen to call for another rotation when he doesn't get what he wants.

I see your point. But at least the PT govt has signed some PR and citizenship applications during their tenures. Comparing this to the military coup govt. and then Abhisit govt, they didn't sign any PR applications at all and much much fewer citizenship applications, if any.

[Arkady]

Who knows. It is up to the bureaucrats to push them to sign but IMs lasting only a few months doesn't help at all. Sometimes outgoing ministers will sign a heap of stuff in their in tray. Sometimes not. I am afraid that this pattern of revolving door IMs will continue while PT is in power for the indefinite future. They have so many months to feed and the IM job is the highest reward for political favours with even a few months there providing some nice nest feathering. Meanwhile the puppet master is impatient for results and always keen to call for another rotation when he doesn't get what he wants.

I see your point. But at least the PT govt has signed some PR and citizenship applications during their tenures. Comparing this to the military coup govt. and then Abhisit govt, they didn't sign any PR applications at all and much much fewer citizenship applications, if any.

Actually the Saruyudh government signed a lot of citizenship applications and speeded up the process which had got bogged down under Thaksin's first interior minister, Purachai, who also delayed and rejected a whole block of PR applications and made the process much more difficult. Personally I believe it is the changes that Purachai made to the PR process and his unsubstantiated allegations of corruption that resulted in the big freeze. Under the Abhisit government the Interior Ministry was unfortunately controlled not by Abhisit but Newin Chidchorp's Bhumjai Party which apparently prioritised income generation over all else. Yongyuth broke the logjam of PR applications under PT. It remains to be seen whether this was specific PT policy or just his personal agenda, since he had been permanent secretary at the ministry and knew where all the skeleton's were buried (because he had buried many of them himself).

Edited June 30, 2013 by Arkady

[NewlyMintedThai]

Purachai signed my PR and the Abhisit government my citizenship, so I'm forever grateful to both.

[kyolee]

Anyway, congradulations. I wanna be thai citizen as well.

http://easychinese.simplesite.com/

[Oasis]

4th 2013 meeting for Thai citizenship of sub-committee at DOPA, MOI on June 20, 2013.

On June 20, 2556 at 9:30 pm said Nan invention came the director of internal security. Presided over the meeting of the Screening Committee for naturalization as Thailand. 's Nationality by the husband to Thailand. And return to Thailand nationality. Order screening committee on nationality to 4/2555, dated 26 January 2555 No. 4/2556, 5 ​​th Floor Conference Room 2, Department of the Interior ((Google translated text - please do not post Thai outside of dedicated forum))

www.isab.go.th

Edited July 12, 2013 by lopburi3
language

[Oasis]

5th 2013 meeting for Thai citizenship of committee at DOPA, MOI was held on July 18, 2013. Good to have this regularity, hope the things will be more quicker now.

www.isab.go.th

Edited July 30, 2013 by Oasis

[Arkady]

5th 2013 meeting for Thai citizenship of committee at DOPA, MOI was held on July 18, 2013. Good to have this regularity, hope the things will be more quicker now.

www.isab.go.th

It's good that the've got some momentum going. Let's hope the momentum is also going up the pipe to the minister's signing hand! However, for those who have been interviewed recently it is a bit puzzling that there is no record on DOPA's website of any meetings of the big committee, chaired by the permanent secretary, that has to further approve (in absentia) those interviewed and approved by the small committee. Last year they apparently met twice.

The pictures show the current format of the interviews with the small committee comprising 15 officials seated at the conference table and other officials, including at least one from SB, seated around the sides of the room. You need to sing and/or talk into a conference mic. Make sure it is glowing red before you croon or speak into it to ensure that your mellifluous tones reach every corner of the room.

[skippybangkok]

Yeh, i see it, there is my application on the table........... oh.... no, its not.

[tamvine]

As a foreigner In Thailand I keep on transferring money to myself from overseas for personal use. So far there has been no questions from any authorities. In case someone becomes a Thai citizen through Naturalization process how will it work for that person? Since he will be a Thai Citizen so will there be questions from authorities? and if so how one can tackle the same?

Edited September 2, 2013 by tamvine

[NewlyMintedThai]

No differences whatsoever.

[ubonjoe]

If you are transferring money in to live on that means you are not working here and would not be able to apply for citizenship.

There is no restriction on Thais bringing money into country.

[Dork]

As a foreigner In Thailand I keep on transferring money to myself from overseas for personal use. So far there has been no questions from any authorities. In case someone becomes a Thai citizen through Naturalization process how will it work for that person? Since he will be a Thai Citizen so will there be questions from authorities? and if so how one can tackle the same?

Are you referring to personal taxation? If so, the tax liability rules on offshore income are exactly the same for a Thai citizen as they are for a foreigner.

Also transferring funds in and out of Thailand is much easier now than it was in years past. I regularly transfer funds both ways and am never asked the reason for such transfers nowadays. In the old days I had to sign BOT declarations but not anymore.

[tamvine]

tamvine, on 02 Sept 2013 - 10:43, said:

As a foreigner In Thailand I keep on transferring money to myself from overseas for personal use. So far there has been no questions from any authorities. In case someone becomes a Thai citizen through Naturalization process how will it work for that person? Since he will be a Thai Citizen so will there be questions from authorities? and if so how one can tackle the same?

Are you referring to personal taxation? If so, the tax liability rules on offshore income are exactly the same for a Thai citizen as they are for a foreigner.

Also transferring funds in and out of Thailand is much easier now than it was in years past. I regularly transfer funds both ways and am never asked the reason for such transfers nowadays. In the old days I had to sign BOT declarations but not anymore.

*******************

Thanks Dork, You have understood what I meant. Just to be more clear what I need understanding is for the income earned by a foreigner prior to he was naturalised as Thai citizen? If someone brings such money from overseas after being naturalized how will that be taxed? How will person prove that that should not be taxed since it was earned by him overseas prior to be naturalized? Can you throw more light on it?

[ubonjoe]

Income earned in previous years are not taxed.

Tax laws are the same for Thais and foreigners.

[Dork]

tamvine, on 02 Sept 2013 - 10:43, said:

As a foreigner In Thailand I keep on transferring money to myself from overseas for personal use. So far there has been no questions from any authorities. In case someone becomes a Thai citizen through Naturalization process how will it work for that person? Since he will be a Thai Citizen so will there be questions from authorities? and if so how one can tackle the same?

Are you referring to personal taxation? If so, the tax liability rules on offshore income are exactly the same for a Thai citizen as they are for a foreigner.

Also transferring funds in and out of Thailand is much easier now than it was in years past. I regularly transfer funds both ways and am never asked the reason for such transfers nowadays. In the old days I had to sign BOT declarations but not anymore.

*******************

Thanks Dork, You have understood what I meant. Just to be more clear what I need understanding is for the income earned by a foreigner prior to he was naturalised as Thai citizen? If someone brings such money from overseas after being naturalized how will that be taxed? How will person prove that that should not be taxed since it was earned by him overseas prior to be naturalized? Can you throw more light on it?

As Ubonjoe says, no one (Thai or Foreigner) is liable for tax on foreign derived income as long as that income is not brought into Thailand in the same year as it was earned. Since the Thai Revenue Department has no way of knowing what income you earned or when it was earned (unless you declare it), effectively it isn't taxable.

For tax purposes, nationality is irrelevant.

[asiaexpat]

From Revenue Department:

Taxpayers are classified into resident and non-resident. Resident means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

Income earned by residents and brought into Thailand in the same tax year is taxable.

[btwretail]

And foreigners wanting citizenship in my home country, complain about how difficult that is.... LOL!

Well done and congratulations... I gave up at the singing part...

[btwretail]

He or she must be of good behavior and background. The following will be checked: criminal record; political background; involvement with illegal drugs and, in the case of Vietnamese applicants, personal behavior.

Hahahahahhaa.... I love that condition! So funny!

[Dork]

From Revenue Department:

Taxpayers are classified into resident and non-resident. Resident means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

Income earned by residents and brought into Thailand in the same tax year is taxable.

An good analogy might be if I take a 2 litre container and pour one litre of water into it. The next year I add another litre of water. A few months later I pour one cup out of the container and bring it to Thailand. Which year does my cup of water come from?