Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[GarryP]

4 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

I should be fine with the language, as I completed my Ph.D. in a Thai-language program.

 

My worries are about specialty products  of each province or tambon, I don't have that knowledge. I'm a city-dweller, male, and don't know about different types of silk or where they come from... I'll certainly lose some points here. 

I think you will find that with the multiple choice questions, you can pretty much easily guess those that you are not sure about. 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post and the expected replies to it have been removed.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

When I went through the process the points for language went as follows:

 

1. Speak and understand spoken Thai - 8

2. Speak and understand spoken Thai, together with singing the royal and national anthems - 10

3. Speak and understand spoken Thai, together with singing the royal and national anthems and read Thai - 13

4. Speak and understand spoken Thai, together with singing the royal and national anthems and read and write Thai - 15

 

It may have changed since then though. Hopefully to get points for reading and writing, it will no longer be linked to singing the anthems. 

 

To conclude, 8 is already the lowest score for language. Lower than 8 means you get no points at all. 

 

That is a good point Garry but bear in mind that all of the (I believe still current) 2009 guidelines and qualification point details were written without taking into account the 2008 amendment exempting applicants with a Thai wife from 5 years' residence (with PR) and knowledge of the Thai language (with singing), even though it had already been in force for a year at the time.  I have always assumed that applicants who don't have to sing could opt for the reading and writing tests but not for the singing.  The fact that SB makes it very obvious that listening to applicants singing is not something they enjoy in most cases might reinforce this.  How they assess the points seems to be mainly left up to them, since they only have to report to the MoI that applicants got 50 or more. 

 

If anyone would like to read and/or write but not sing, they should ask SB. 

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

I think you will find that with the multiple choice questions, you can pretty much easily guess those that you are not sure about. 

Hm, thanks. 

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, NewlyMintedThai said:

Don't sweat it. I missed the Thai silk question and still got my ID card with no issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Thanks, sounds encouraging.

[Arkady]

Correction to what I posted recently about rounding up points in the Knowledge test.  There are 10 questions and there is, indeed, rounding up which works like this, or did a few years back.

 

General knowledge about Thailand at medium level,
(1-5 correct answers in the test)    5 points.

General knowledge about Thailand at high level,
(6-8 correct answers in the test)   8 points.

General knowledge about Thailand at very high level,
(9-10 correct answers in the test)   10 points.

 

That means that 9 is rounded up to 10, 6 and 7 to 8 and you can't get less than 5 points, as long as you get just one question right.  I guess the vast majority get 8 points and a lot get 10.  So not too much to worry about.

[EricTh]

18 minutes ago, Arkady said:

Correction to what I posted recently about rounding up points in the Knowledge test.  There are 10 questions and there is, indeed, rounding up which works like this, or did a few years back.

 

General knowledge about Thailand at medium level,
(1-5 correct answers in the test)    5 points.

General knowledge about Thailand at high level,
(6-8 correct answers in the test)   8 points.

General knowledge about Thailand at very high level,
(9-10 correct answers in the test)   10 points.

 

That means that 9 is rounded up to 10, 6 and 7 to 8 and you can't get less than 5 points, as long as you get just one question right.  I guess the vast majority get 8 points and a lot get 10.  So not too much to worry about.

 

Where can I get a sample test paper online?

 

[Arkady]

35 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Where can I get a sample test paper online?

 

 

Sample test papers are not available online.  

[onthemoon]

On 8/8/2017 at 2:24 PM, Arkady said:

Correction to what I posted recently about rounding up points in the Knowledge test.  There are 10 questions and there is, indeed, rounding up which works like this, or did a few years back.

 

General knowledge about Thailand at medium level,
(1-5 correct answers in the test)    5 points.

General knowledge about Thailand at high level,
(6-8 correct answers in the test)   8 points.

General knowledge about Thailand at very high level,
(9-10 correct answers in the test)   10 points.

 

That means that 9 is rounded up to 10, 6 and 7 to 8 and you can't get less than 5 points, as long as you get just one question right.  I guess the vast majority get 8 points and a lot get 10.  So not too much to worry about.

 

Thanks for this. So the maximum I can realistically lose are 5 points. That should not jeopardise my chances.

[yankee99]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

 

Thanks for this. So the maximum I can realistically lose are 5 points. That should not jeopardise my chances.

Just getting one correct=5 points thats a gift

[MrPatrickThai]

5 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

Just getting one correct=5 points thats a gift

yeah, if you guess them all, you're going to get on average 2.5/10!

[GabbaGabbaHey]

16 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

yeah, if you guess them all, you're going to get on average 2.5/10!

I haven't read anywhere this is a MCQ test. Is it?

[Arkady]

14 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

I haven't read anywhere this is a MCQ test. Is it?

 

Unless it has changed since I did it, it is a multiple choice test with 10 questions and 4 possible answers to each.  Look carefully at all choices before answering because some may be choice D: "all of the above". 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

 

Unless it has changed since I did it, it is a multiple choice test with 10 questions and 4 possible answers to each.  Look carefully at all choices before answering because some may be choice D: "all of the above". 

Thanks Arkady. For the fun, I brushed up my maths skills and had a read in pages dedicated to this particular problem. It comes out the probability of having at least one correct answer when picking answers randomly would be 94.4%, while the one to have 6 or more answers falls down to around 2%. For those who question that, the rounded probability distribution from exactly 1 to exactly 10 good answers is (18.8, 28.2, 25.0, 14.6, 5.8, 1.6, 0.4, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0) and 94.4% is just the sum of all.

Edited August 10, 2017 by GabbaGabbaHey
typo

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Thanks Arkady. For the fun, I brushed up my maths skills and had a read in pages dedicated to this particular problem. It comes out the probability of having at least one correct answer when picking answers randomly would be 94.4%, while the one to have 6 or more answers falls down to around 2%. For those who question that, the rounded probability distribution from exactly 1 to exactly 10 good answers is (18.8, 28.2, 25.0, 14.6, 5.8, 1.6, 0.4, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0) and 94.4% is just the sum of all.

Well done.  If you take the supposition that most applicants can get at least  5 questions right without guessing, then I guess you can also calculate a fairly high probability of guessing at least one of the remaining 5 questions right.  That would give you a score of 8 points.  I don't think people should fret too much about this test, even if they are applying as a PR without a Thai wife to help or with a Thai wife whose general knowledge of Thailand is less than their own.

[MrPatrickThai]

10 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

I haven't read anywhere this is a MCQ test. Is it?

Yes, it is a multiple guess test.

[MrPatrickThai]

My American friend, who has a degree in Law from a Thai uni, enquired about requirements.

He said the main thing was the 3 years tax receipts and they told him they can't be late, which worries me somewhat as one year was. However, the boss said it would be OK if I got the previous 3 years receipts. I went to the tax office today and they, by law, can only give 5 years records. So, I may as well try again with these 2 extra years and hope for the best. It would be very irritating after everything I've done to get it kicked back because of this minor detail. Perhaps the worst case would be waiting til next March, but it was the year 2558 that was late(only by a couple of weeks!). 

[yankee99]

I moved my yellow book to bkk today. I then visited SB today to let them view my documents and give me some guidance. Unlike my visit to chonburi they were very helpful. The officer calculated my points at 51 of course this was unofficial. Unfortunately i also have a issue with my taxes. Although i have 3 years the 1st year i only worked part of the year. I will have to wait until January to apply.

 

I also had some contradicting information from SB in how many points are awarded for different criteria.  

[MrPatrickThai]

4 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

I moved my yellow book to bkk today. I then visited SB today to let them view my documents and give me some guidance. Unlike my visit to chonburi they were very helpful. The officer calculated my points at 51 of course this was unofficial. Unfortunately i also have a issue with my taxes. Although i have 3 years the 1st year i only worked part of the year. I will have to wait until January to apply.

 

I also had some contradicting information from SB in how many points are awarded for different criteria.  

Surely, you'll have to wait until the end of the tax year?

 

Congrats on getting the book transferred!

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by MrPatrickThai

[GarryP]

8 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Surely, you'll have to wait until the end of the tax year?

 

Congrats on getting the book transferred!

 

He can submit his por ngor dor 91 in the beginning of January 2018. It should only take a few days for the tax office to review and issue a receipt if done then.

Edited August 10, 2017 by GarryP

[yankee99]

I believe the tax calendar is Jan 1 to Dec 31

[MrPatrickThai]

1 minute ago, yankee99 said:

I believe the tax calendar is Jan 1 to Dec 31

Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I  always have been  told to do it in April.

[MrPatrickThai]

https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/th/pdf/2016/12/2017-tax-calendar-English.pdf

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/th/pdf/2016/12/2017-tax-calendar-English.pdf

That appears to be mostly for corporate taxes. The tax year for personal taxes is by the calendar year.

This from the revenue webpage for personal taxes. http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Quote

            Taxpayer is liable to file Personal Income Tax return and make a payment to the Revenue Department within the last day of March following the taxable year. Taxpayer, who derives income specified in c, d or f in 2.3 during the first six months of the taxable year is also required to file half - yearly return and make a payment to the Revenue Department within the last day of September of that taxable year. Any withholding tax or half-yearly tax which has been paid to the Revenue Department can be used as a credit against the tax liability at the end of the year.

 

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

That appears to be mostly for corporate taxes. The tax year for personal taxes is by the calendar year.

This from the revenue webpage for personal taxes. http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

 

I just saw that the Thai tax code allows deductions for income from liberal professions. Is teaching at a university considered a liberal profession in Thailand?

[Arkady]

13 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I  always have been  told to do it in April.

Deadline for hard copy PNG 91 and 90 personal tax returns is 31 March or the nearest working day after that. For online filing you get an extra week or so with the deadline announced annually by the RD.  In 2017 the online deadline was 8 April.  It is actually quite easy to file online once you've got the hang of it.  The forms are translated into English too, if you can figure out out to get at them.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, onthemoon said:

I just saw that the Thai tax code allows deductions for income from liberal professions. Is teaching at a university considered a liberal profession in Thailand?

 

Unfortunately the RD's English website is only a selective summary of the Thai website that provides a lot more detail on virtually everything that is on the English website, which makes the latter rather misleading and unhelpful.  The definition of liberal professions in the Thai version is thus:

 

6. Earning income from independent professions such as law, the arts, engineering, architecture, accounting, fine arts Or any other profession, which will be prescribed in a Royal Decree.

 

Clearly medicine is also included because a specific rate of deduction for doctors is listed in the deductions section.  Teaching is not mentioned and is probably not included, unless it is listed in one of the hundreds of Royal Decrees to do with tax. At any rate Thai teachers tend to be employed either by the state or by private schools and tend not to want to pay tax on any income they earn from moonlighting or to disclose it to their employers .  Thus I am not sure if teachers are allowed to claim any deductions against income they earn as freelancers or whether they have to swallow the costs of travel, teaching materials etc.  At least they can still get the basic B60k deduction.  Anyway this is only applicable for income earned by freelance teachers, which is probably something you can only do legally once you have got your ID card.  You need a work permit for freelance work or to have it added to your existing WP as a second job (with written permission from your employer). Although there is nothing in the law to prohibit WPs for foreigners to work as freelancers, the Labour Ministry rarely approves them, except for cases like temporary WPs for musicians visiting to perform at concerts.   

 

[onthemoon]

Hey Arkady, well noted with thanks.

[skyaslimit]

Deadline for hard copy PNG 91 and 90 personal tax returns is 31 March or the nearest working day after that. For online filing you get an extra week or so with the deadline announced annually by the RD.  In 2017 the online deadline was 8 April.  It is actually quite easy to file online once you've got the hang of it.  The forms are translated into English too, if you can figure out out to get at them.

I just downloaded the RD app. from Google Play which allows you to pay taxes online,you need to register to-be able to use it, I registered myself but it's asking for a laser ID? Any ideas?

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, skyaslimit said:

I just downloaded the RD app. from Google Play which allows you to pay taxes online,you need to register to-be able to use it, I registered myself but it's asking for a laser ID? Any ideas?

 

You got me there.  I log in with my ID number and a password that came from them.  They are not very hi-tech, as they still support Windows XP and only Internet Explorer works, nor very concerned about security, as they have never required a password change over several years.  It may be something to do with the app.   I just go into their website.