USA Topic: FBAR filing deadline is April 15 but there is an automatic extension until October 15 OR IS THERE!?!

[Jingthing]

This concerns USA persons that are required to file FBARs covering the year 2020.

 

Am I reading this right?

 

IRS reminds foreign bank and financial account holders the FBAR deadline remains April 15 | Internal Revenue Service

 

"Official" deadline -- April 15 2021 SOON!

"Actual" deadline due to an automatic extension requiring no request for it -- October 15, 2021

 

I suppose this topic can also be used by people that aren't clear about whether they are required to file an FBAR or not.

 

A very common reason for expats in Thailand to need to file FBARs are those on retirement extensions using the 800K in a Thai bank method. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Oh no!

The plot thickens.

Is there REALLY an automatic FBAR filing extension to October 15 or not?

Or does that require a request to extend the regular IRS filing to October 15?

It SEEMS that there really is an automatic FBAR extension, but now not entirely sure.

 

IRS Warning: FBAR Deadline For Offshore Accounts Is Still April 15 (forbes.com)

 

Quote

You can request a tax extension to October 15, and that will also extend your FBAR due date. But you might not even think about extending to October 15 until May 17, so what gives? The IRS’s announcement regarding FBARs is somewhat puzzling in light of the IRS’s published position regarding FBAR due dates. The IRS has published guidance (still available on the IRS website) that provides that taxpayers who fail to file FBARs by April 15 receive an automatic extension of their filing deadlines until October 15. In its published guidance, the IRS clarifies that taxpayers do not need to request this six-month extension for FBARs, but that it is granted automatically by the act of missing the April 15 deadline. Why, then, would the IRS now make a point of reminding everyone about the April 15 deadline, if the filing deadline is already effectively October 15? The IRS has not formally rescinded its earlier guidance about the automatic extension to October 15, but the new notice may indicate that not everyone at the IRS is on the same page about when FBARs are due.

 

[taxout]

If you look back you'll see we seem to get confused by this here every year.

 

The technical FBAR deadline is April 15. However Fincen automatically grants everyone an extension until October 15, no action required to get it.

 

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/FBAR_Due_Date_Clarification_PD02-02-2018.pdf

[JimGant]

Quote

Why, then, would the IRS now make a point of reminding everyone about the April 15 deadline, if the filing deadline is already effectively October 15? The IRS has not formally rescinded its earlier guidance about the automatic extension to October 15, but the new notice may indicate that not everyone at the IRS is on the same page about when FBARs are due.

The above quote from the Forbe's article referenced, above.

 

Actually, the guidance for the automatic extension comes from FinCEN. But Treasury has tasked the IRS to enforce FinCEN's FBAR rules. These are two totally separate organization whose only commonality is that they are both under Treasury.

 

This disconnect between the IRS and FinCEN becomes more apparent when you compare FinCEN's FBAR reporting threshold of $10,000 with FATCA's reporting threshold of $50,000 ( FATCA reporting is dictated by the IRS). Wouldn't you think that someone in charge would have such money laundering related thresholds harmonized?

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

36 minutes ago, JimGant said:

The above quote from the Forbe's article referenced, above.

 

Actually, the guidance for the automatic extension comes from FinCEN. But Treasury has tasked the IRS to enforce FinCEN's FBAR rules. These are two totally separate organization whose only commonality is that they are both under Treasury.

 

This disconnect between the IRS and FinCEN becomes more apparent when you compare FinCEN's FBAR reporting threshold of $10,000 with FATCA's reporting threshold of $50,000 ( FATCA reporting is dictated by the IRS). Wouldn't you think that someone in charge would have such money laundering related thresholds harmonized?

 

 

 

Hmm.

So in your opinion is there an automatic FBAR filing extention until October 15 or not?

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So in your opinion is there an automatic FBAR filing extention until October 15 or not?

Sure. FinCEN establishes the policy, which still remains Oct 15; IRS is just tasked with ensuring compliance. That there are apparently no checks and balances remaining at IRS to catch this glitch is not surprising -- tax season on top of stimulus check charades, while understqffed by tens of thousands -- man, would that be a working environment nightmare.

[soisanuk]

 

Quote

Extension of Time to File. FinCEN will grant filers failing to meet the FBAR annual due date of April 15th an automatic extension to October 15th each year. Accordingly, specific requests for an extension are not required.

(Emphasis added)

 

See Page 8 from this pdf file on FinCen website. https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/FBAR Line Item Filing Instructions.pdf

[DFPhuket]

I have 3 foreign accounts and the FBAR only takes me about 10 minutes to complete and submit Why not just complete it now? It can be done well in advance of filing your 1040. 

[Tracyb]

Where does one find the correct exchange rate to use for FBAR reporting?

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, Tracyb said:

Where does one find the correct exchange rate to use for FBAR reporting?

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/reports-statements/treasury-reporting-rates-exchange/current.html

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

14 minutes ago, Tracyb said:

Where does one find the correct exchange rate to use for FBAR reporting?

 

 

The exchange rate published on FiscalData.Treasury.gov for December 31, 2020 is the one to use.

[flexomike]

1 hour ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

 

The exchange rate published on FiscalData.Treasury.gov for December 31, 2020 is the one to use.

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/reports-statements/treasury-reporting-rates-exchange/current.html

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

 

The exchange rate published on FiscalData.Treasury.gov for December 31, 2020 is the one to use.

I did a little more digging and found this.

Source: https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/files/reports-statements/treasury-reporting-rates-exchange/treasury-reporting-rates-of-exchange-as-of-december-31-2020.pdf

 

Edit: Found it here. https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/reports-statements/treasury-reporting-rates-exchange/historical.html

[Pib]

- NLT 15 Apr is the desired date but an extension to 15 Oct is automatic....Summary: 15 Oct is the deadline.

 

- Use the U.S. Treasury 31 Dec exchange rate if available when filing.  If not available when filing use another verifiable exchange rate.

 

See below quotes from the FBAR Instructions.

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/FBAR Line Item Filing Instructions.pdf

 

Quote

Extension of Time to File. FinCEN will grant filers failing to meet the FBAR annual due date of April 15th an automatic extension to October 15th each year. Accordingly, specific requests for an extension are not required.

 

Quote

Step 2. In the case of non-United States currency, convert the maximum account value for each account into United States dollars. Convert foreign currency by using the Treasury's Financial Management Service rate (select Exchange Rates under Reference & Guidance at www.fms.treas.gov) for the last day of the calendar year. If no Treasury Financial Management Service rate is available, use another verifiable exchange rate and provide the source of that rate. In valuing currency of a country that uses multiple exchange rates, use the rate that would apply if the currency in the account were converted into United States dollars on the last day of the calendar year.

 

[MrJ2U]

The extension of the federal income tax filing due date and other tax deadlines for individuals to May 17, 2021, does not affect the FBAR requirement. However, filers missing the April 15 deadline will receive an automatic extension until October 15, 2021, to file the FBAR. They don't need to request the extension.6 days ago

www.irs.gov › newsroom › irs-remi...

 

[up-country_sinclair]

4 hours ago, DFPhuket said:

the FBAR only takes me about 10 minutes to complete and submit Why not just complete it now?

 

Exactly.  Not Sure why so much drama is needed.

[connda]

Yeah there is an automatic extension to Oct 15th but if it worries you so much then why not just file then you can relax.  You've got about 14 hours left. 

[connda]

49 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

The extension of the federal income tax filing due date and other tax deadlines for individuals to May 17, 2021, does not affect the FBAR requirement. However, filers missing the April 15 deadline will receive an automatic extension until October 15, 2021, to file the FBAR. They don't need to request the extension.6 days ago

www.irs.gov › newsroom › irs-remi...

 

Normal filing deadline for expats is June 15th.  With Covid everyone has a extension. 

[MrJ2U]

Im glad I read this! 

 

I just filed with my cell phone.  Easy if you have your account number handy.  It took about 10 minutes.  Next up taxes that deadline has been extended to May 27th.

[Yellowtail]

Are you guys able to register on the site such that your data fields repopulate from the previous year? I do not seem able to do this.

 

I do not think the exchange rate is critical as long as you round the dollar amounts up...

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Are you guys able to register on the site such that your data fields repopulate from the previous year? I do not seem able to do this.

 

I do not think the exchange rate is critical as long as you round the dollar amounts up...

No need to register on the FBAR website....just download the FBAR PDF form, complete it offline, and then upload.   Next year just update the form you submitted last year assuming they don't revise the form.

 

 

[JimGant]

16 hours ago, connda said:

Normal filing deadline for expats is June 15th.  With Covid everyone has a extension. 

The automatic expat extension for FILING of June 15th has been around for awhile. Sadly, some have interpreted this to mean both filing and paying of taxes owed are extended to June 15th. Wrong. Any taxes due by April 15th (or whatever specific nearby due date) are due on that date. Thus, if you file by June 15, and haven't paid taxes owed, then you're subject to a late payment penalty, to include interest. But no penalty for just filing late. (And the penalty for late payment is considerably higher than for late filing.)

 

Anyway, this year, expats taking advantage of the June 15th filing deadline -- and don't pay any taxes due -- will not have the late payment penalty clock start until May 17th.

 

As an aside, when you do finally file and pay, no need to try and determine penalties and interest due on your tax filing. The IRS will do this for you and MAYBE send you a bill. (I say maybe because in my short CPA years, when some clients hadn't correctly done their estimated taxes, and thus had a penalty due -- no peep from the IRS.)

[connda]

7 hours ago, Pib said:

No need to register on the FBAR website....just download the FBAR PDF form, complete it offline, and then upload.   Next year just update the form you submitted last year assuming they don't revise the form.

 

 

https://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/NoRegFBARFiler.html

[Yellowtail]

10 hours ago, Pib said:

No need to register on the FBAR website....just download the FBAR PDF form, complete it offline, and then upload.   Next year just update the form you submitted last year assuming they don't revise the form.

 

Thanks, but yeah, that's what I do now. It just seems crazy that you can't just log in and update it.

[Pib]

11 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Thanks, but yeah, that's what I do now. It just seems crazy that you can't just log in and update it.

As soon as you require logon credentials to a U.S. govt website it turns into a bureaucratic registration, privacy, and identity verification goat rope....password updating....probably 2FA maybe requiring a U.S. mobile number....a process that would surely turn-off a lot of people. 

 

I  expect the current FBAR submission compliance percentage with the simple complete/update the PDF form offline and then upload to a govt website with no logon credentials required is far, far below 100%.  Making it a more bureaucratic process where you gotta have logon credentials to submit the individual FBAR would just lower the individual compliance rate.   

 

They do have a log-on type system called the "Registered BSA E-Filer " for organizations that need to file numerous/batch FBARs (i.e., financial companies who file for clients, etc) but there is a process to go thru to get registered, get logon credentials issued, etc.

 

I for one hope they keep the simple complete/update a PDF form offline and then upload.   And it's so neat how the PDF form they use has a button on the form you click that takes you right to the FInCen webpage to upload the form.  Pure simplicity. 

 

 

Info on Registered BSA E-Flier

https://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/Enroll_Now.html

 

Quote

 

Becoming a Registered BSA E-Filer

In order to file BSA data on behalf of an institution (i.e. filing organization), the person that will serve as the liaison between BSA E-Filing and the filing organization must enroll as the initial Supervisory User on behalf of the organization.

ATTENTION FBAR FILERS: Individuals filing the Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FinCEN Report 114 - FBAR) are NOT REQUIRED to register in order to file; instead, use the File FBAR method to file the FBAR as an individual.

Examples of institutions that file BSA data include:

• Large institutions, such as publicly traded corporations
• Smaller institutions, such as unincorporated sole proprietorships, personal service corporations, or similar small business entities
• Financial institutions, such as banks, insurance companies, money services businesses, broker-dealers, and casinos
• Non-financial institutions, such as dealers in precious metals and car dealers

 

 

 

[taxout]

Warning!

 

You can't prepare your FBAR on an Android device. Only Windows or Mac will do. You can't even open last year's filing.

 

If I'm wrong, please let me know.

[taxout]

Having finally gotten around to starting on my FBAR, let me update that.

 

The FBAR site has an option to fill out the form online. This seems to work with at least some Android browsers. However, it's not a very convenient option because you have to enter everything into the form in one session. You can't save the form then come back and revise it before submitting.

 

Most Android .pdf editors cannot open the FBAR form because it uses a special format called .xfa. Foxit apparently can edit this so they say, but to use that functionality you have to pay a $11/year subscription.

 

Has anyone successfully used Foxit on Android to prepare their FBAR?

 

[taxout]

To follow up, do not waste your money on a Foxit subscription to get XFA support to file FBAR on your mobile. Not only is the app frustratingly buggy, it ultimately won't let you file your completed form. Shameful that any company would put software like this on the market.

 

BUT: If you have to fall back on the official online form, note that it allows you to skip entering addresses, which does save a lot of time.