How do I explain COVID risk?

[covidiot]

In any case, this discussion will be outdated soon.

Already in western media they are talking about privileges that will be withheld from those who are not vaccinated. People who refuse vaccines may not even be allowed in restaurants in certain countries. It's not only a health risk issue. 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, covidiot said:

In any case, this discussion will be outdated soon.

Already in western media they are talking about privileges that will be withheld from those who are not vaccinated. People who refuse vaccines may not even be allowed in restaurants in certain countries. It's not only a health risk issue. 

Thats not just the west, its China also and I think the whole world will follow a similar approach, China's far ahead with planning for this via qr codes. 

 

How I personally see it and its just my perception, this will happen to some extent until the world pandemic is over and the virus has become just another background risk. By then there will be vaccine induced herd immunity and eventually the virus becomes so rare that there will be no need to have these checks. Outbreaks will still occur of course with possible new variants but boosters which will possibly be yearly should eliminate the majority of these.

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic, trolling and posts with false or misleading information have been removed.   The topic isn't about WW I or II.  It's not about the UK.  

 

 

[Credo]

Since she will most likely only be eligible to get the Russian or Chinese vaccine, you might want to let her know that they are traditional vaccines and are made with the same technology for which she has most likely received throughout her childhood.   

Then, I'd try to find friends, family, neighbors who may have had the vaccine to help sway her opinion.   

Hesitancy is quite common, especially for people who are not high risk.  I'd tread lightly and not be too forceful.   

 

[covidiot]

Also, maybe only those vaccinated will not be required to wear masks.

We only have a choice for a limited time. Then they will make people's lives uncomfortable if you don't get it. 

 

Anyway, in the same daily local paper today, there is one article about people taken to hospital for thrombosis from astrazeneca and another about lack of privileges if you don't get the vaccine. 

 

Very lovely.

 

[chessman]

4 hours ago, covidiot said:

The Western media is schizophrenic. One day they tell you the vaccines are safe and the following day they publish an article about bloot clots.

This is an odd argument, and of course the media is damned if they do and damned if they don’t... can you imagine what would happen if the media were suppressing news stories about potential issues with vaccines?

 

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.

 

[covidiot]

30 minutes ago, chessman said:

can you imagine what would happen if the media were suppressing news stories about potential issues with vaccines?

yeah, it did occur to me that they are publishing these articles to cover their butts. 

check-mate.

[Patong2021]

4 hours ago, covidiot said:

Comparing risk of death of covid vs risk of death of vaccine with your statistics is not entirely accurate.

 

Most people have already lived through covid for an entire year without any symptoms. So the vaccine introduces a new unknown into the equation, therefore the risk of complications (arguably) increases. 

 

 

Yes, I have survived to date. Very happy, but it come at cost of; self isolation, avoiding public space like cinema and public market, mask everywhere even when I am only one, making sure I only have small number of contact people who act like me.  I will be happy if I can reduce these measures and this can only done if we continue to be responsible and take vaccine. 

Yes there are many people of low intelligence or selfish who think only of their personal comfort and they want safe measures to end now. They make big noise. At start of crisis I knew and worked with people  who would not take this seriously, and I could not change their behavior. I can control only mine, so I avoid these people and ignore them when they are in trouble. If girlfriend do not take good quality vaccine, I would avoid. Vaccines are not 100% perfect and I do not need or want the risk of being the one person who has the breakthrough infection. I am sympathetic if someone does not want China or Russia vaccine because that is good reason, but Oxford vaccine is safe and no one is dying from blood clots now that  issue identified and quick treatment available.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, covidiot said:

yeah, it did occur to me that they are publishing these articles to cover their butts. 

check-mate.

Not sure about check-mate. More like proof of a sprinkling of paranoia

[Jingthing]

Maybe tell her Covid-19 will make her smell permanently of blue cheese.

[covidiot]

10 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

If girlfriend do not take good quality vaccine, I would avoid.

Yeah, that's pretty funny. I wonder how many divorces there will be because of 'vaccine differences.'

Or the vaccine you took will show up on dating sites and Pfizer women will not want to get hitched up with Astrazeneca men, or even worse, anti-vaxxers. 

 

[covidiot]

11 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

but Oxford vaccine is safe and no one is dying from blood clots

maybe not death. but last i read they still rush you to the emergency room. lol.

 

[chessman]

6 minutes ago, covidiot said:

Yeah, that's pretty funny. I wonder how many relationships will break up because of vaccine differences.

Or the vaccine you took will show up on dating sites and Pfizer women will not want to get hitched up with Astrazeneca men, or even worse, anti-vaxxers. 

There’ll be a lot of money for the person who comes up with the first dating site that matches you to the vaccine of your dreams...

[chessman]

25 minutes ago, covidiot said:

yeah, it did occur to me that they are publishing these articles to cover their butts. 

Or maybe (whisper it) they are publishing these stories because transparency with issues like these are healthy and it will help sensible people weigh up the risks and make informed decisions. 

[covidiot]

41 minutes ago, chessman said:

it will help sensible people weigh up the risks and make informed decisions. 

I am not relying on the media to make an informed decision  as I believe the media is causing confusion.

I will employ "the wisdom of the bar girl" to decide on this

... ie "don't think too mutt".

going with my gut.

 

I'm sick of talking about covid. I'm outta here.

[cdemundo]

Understanding relative risk is difficult.

The numbers are either very small or very large, outside the range of numbers we deal with day to day.

Any subject with this characteristic is difficult for people to understand, for instance people who buy $100 worth of lottery tickets because they think it improves their chance of winning substantially.  It's 100 xs greater chance right?

[Danderman123]

6 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

And at that point I'm afraid your logic breaks down. Because being vaccinated does not prevent anyone from contracting Covid, it only reduces the impact. So your vaccinated G/F could still catch Covid and pass it on to her father.

You seem to have difficulty understanding risk.

 

The vaccinated have a much lower risk of infection from Covid-19, a much lower risk of having symptoms, and a tiny risk of dying from Covid-19. More to the point, although it is possible for a vaccinated individual to infect someone else, I have not heard of any such documented cases.

 

 

[Scott]

54 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You seem to have difficulty understanding risk.

 

The vaccinated have a much lower risk of infection from Covid-19, a much lower risk of having symptoms, and a tiny risk of dying from Covid-19. More to the point, although it is possible for a vaccinated individual to infect someone else, I have not heard of any such documented cases.

 

 

From what I have read, it appears that vaccinated people can be asymptomatic carriers and thus may infect others.   I think the current thinking is that they are less contagious and are shedding less virus, but that will require further study.  

 

[Danderman123]

2 minutes ago, Scott said:

From what I have read, it appears that vaccinated people can be asymptomatic carriers and thus may infect others.   I think the current thinking is that they are less contagious and are shedding less virus, but that will require further study.  

 

I have not seen a documented case of a vaccinated individual infecting someone else.

 

[Scott]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I have not seen a documented case of a vaccinated individual infecting someone else.

 

It's pretty early on in the vaccination to know for sure.  But, I haven't read about any either. 

 

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Scott said:

It's pretty early on in the vaccination to know for sure.  But, I haven't read about any either. 

 

I guess if I was vaccinated, AND had to wear a mask or risk a 6000 baht fine, my probability of infecting someone else would be vanishingly small.

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, Scott said:

It's pretty early on in the vaccination to know for sure.  But, I haven't read about any either. 

 

Yes very early on, some other factors to consider are, one would also assume that those around you, at least the vulnerable ones would also have been vaccinated, so the odds of passing it on become tiny.

 

Adding to that, when everybody has been vaccinated then the virus will have almost been eliminated anyway.

 

Of course in theory its possible, when you have break trough infections then it stands to reason that you can pass it on. The lower the vaccine efficacy the higher the risk. As mentioned above they have not recorded one single case YET that I know of. It will come and it will be interesting to read up on.

[1FinickyOne]

first get your numbers right.. which probably won't matter... 

 

And if she could explain it to you, you might understand better..

 

she may or may not get covid, but a vaccine is self inflicted...

 

and she is probably afraid of needles. 

 

 

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

.

 

Adding to that, when everybody has been vaccinated then the virus will have almost been eliminated anyway.

 

 

IMO this virus will be similar to flu, in having seasonal mutations, necessitating yearly vaccinations. Not similar at all in health effects, which some fail to understand.

It would be ironic if anti-vaxxers become the subject of Darwinian selection, but that's too close to home for me.

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

11 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

And at that point I'm afraid your logic breaks down. Because being vaccinated does not prevent anyone from contracting Covid, it only reduces the impact. So your vaccinated G/F could still catch Covid and pass it on to her father.

 

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You seem to have difficulty understanding risk.

 

The vaccinated have a much lower risk of infection from Covid-19, a much lower risk of having symptoms, and a tiny risk of dying from Covid-19. More to the point, although it is possible for a vaccinated individual to infect someone else, I have not heard of any such documented cases.

 

 

I don't think that I have difficulty understanding at all. Have we not both said more or less the same thing? It's just the degree that varies.

 

I think it's too early for anyone to fully understand whether a vaccinated person can contract and pass on the infection. Like you say, there are no documented cases. But it's early days so I think, for now we will have to rely on precedents  and the most obvious one, to my mind, is flu.

 

It is known that flu vaccination does not prevent someone catching the virus. Just like Covid it reduces the severity and victims can still pass it on. Until we know otherwise I think we should assume that it will be same for Covid.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I have not seen a documented case of a vaccinated individual infecting someone else.

 

Wasn't there a group of nuns who were all vaccinated, and then all caught COVID?

 .... or was that fake news?

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Wasn't there a group of nuns who were all vaccinated, and then all caught COVID?

 .... or was that fake news?

Not sure about the nuns but its already well documented that you can still get covid and even suffer symptoms after vaccine, the question is how likely it is for you to pass it on, interesting article here on real world data and the story behind documented cases of that.

 

"Robin Hauser, a pediatrician in Tampa, Florida, got covid in February. What separates her from the vast majority of the tens of millions of other Americans who have come down with the virus is this: She got sick seven weeks after her second dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine."

 

https://khn.org/news/article/the-shock-and-reality-of-catching-covid-after-being-vaccinated/

[RubbaJohnny]

Unless she is a millionaire I think you'll find an incentive bomus works a charm, don't go overboard though getting married is a very expensive laundry deal. I've seldom met a lady you will decline a gold bauble and a fish supper in a superior setting.

[Danderman123]

38 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Wasn't there a group of nuns who were all vaccinated, and then all caught COVID?

 .... or was that fake news?

I have not seen a single documented case of a vaccinated individual infecting someone else.