Nine student nurses suffer side effects after Sinovac vaccination

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5 minutes ago, faraday said:

Are fully conscious patients intubated, then?

 

If you ask nicely.

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7 hours ago, DBath said:

I don’t need you to explain risk or probability to me, I’m fully aware. And my wife is Chinese, so enough with your petty little accusations and calling me a bigot toward the Chinese. Your holier than thou opinion means nothing - regarding vaccines or anything else for that matter. So, go and lecture somebody who wants/needs your advice, okay buddy?

My comments were based on your words, not your alleged personal relationships. Do you understand that you're anonymous in this and that there's no way to verify made about your personal life?

Edited May 11, 2021 by placeholder

[Jeffr2]

31 minutes ago, faraday said:

Are fully conscious patients intubated, then?

 

Yes.  But given something to kill the pain.  That drug is the one they ran out of in Brazil.  That'd be terrible.

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

Comparing lotteries with vaccines safety, well there's a word for that as well, but I don't think it's polite to say it.

 

Obviously vaccines have to be safe, to prevent loss of life, as recently happened with AstraZeneca vaccines due to Cerebreal Thrombosis, but wholly other standards apply to lotteries. Compare them if you want, but you just further illustrate that you're missing the point.  Safety for vaccines is paramount. I am not anti-vaccine in the slightest. I am against unsafe and deadly vaccines. By all accounts the numbers of fatalities and severe illnesses in the case of vaccines such as Astra Zeneca, Pfizer, Sinovac and Johnson & Johnson have been of sufficient concern for politicians to decide not to issue these vaccines to certain age groups, which is quite something.

 

We should have vaccines against Covid19 and we should take them, but only if they really are safe, and not if they can kill us. 

 

In the general population cerebral thrombosis occurs in 2 to 5 people in 1 million. After 1.6 million vaccinations in Germany there were 13 cases of deadly cerebral thrombosis. Very obviously the Astrazeneca vaccine significantly increased the risk of cerebral thrombosis.  And the cases have kept increasing, there are now 59 cases of cerebral thrombosis in Germany alone according to the Paul Ehrlich Institute. There is a very clear link between Astra Zeneca and Cerebral Thrombosis, but perhaps you have an innumeracy problem? It now appears that other vaccines like Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer have very similar issues, and people are getting ill from Sinovac. It is a good thing high quality news outlets like ThaiVisa are reporting these issues.

What you still don't understand is that less people will die if they get vaccinated than will die if they don't regardless of whether the vaccine is Astra Zeneca, J&J, or Coronavac. 

[cclub75]

4 hours ago, realfunster said:

 

That's a patently false interpretation - did you even read the Reuters article you linked ?

 

"Officials said Britain would still offer a first dose of COVID-19 vaccine to all adults by the end of July, and emphasised it was better for people in the age group to receive AstraZeneca's shot if no other one was available."

 

 

Well.... did you even read it ?

 

"British officials said on Friday people under 40 should be offered an alternative to Oxford/AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine where possible due to a small risk of blood clots, given the low number of cases and the availability of other shots."

 

And furthermore...

 

"Previously, advice was only for people under 30 to be offered an alternative vaccine. "

 

So ? We went from "no problem".

 

To "'not under 30 years old".

 

And now to "not under 40 years old".

 

I mean it's very plain english.

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, cclub75 said:

 

Well.... did you even read it ?

 

"British officials said on Friday people under 40 should be offered an alternative to Oxford/AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine where possible due to a small risk of blood clots, given the low number of cases and the availability of other shots."

 

And furthermore...

 

"Previously, advice was only for people under 30 to be offered an alternative vaccine. "

 

So ? We went from "no problem".

 

To "'not under 30 years old".

 

And now to "not under 40 years old".

 

I mean it's very plain english.

 

Of course it's better to make a minute risk even more minute if possible. But the fact remains that the risk is minute.

[DBath]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

If you think that's fun, you're gonna love being intubated for oxygen therapy.

You'll be the first to know when that happens...but don't hold your breath.

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15 minutes ago, DBath said:

You'll be the first to know when that happens...but don't hold your breath.

Well, if in the unfortunate event that it does happen, you won't be able to hold yours.

[DBath]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

My comments were based on your words, not your alleged personal relationships. Do you understand that you're anonymous in this and that there's no way to verify made about your personal life?

Frankly, I couldn't care less about you or your "humans-should-be-lab-rats" opinion, regardless of how much you keep trying to ram it down everyone's throat. I will continue to be diligent about masking, social distancing and all that other prudent stuff. However, up to now, I've been healthy, happy and just fine without any vaccine; I've never been sick enough to want one and I don't intend to start now - I've also never opted for the flu shot. I say all this in spite of what yours or anyone else's 'science' might indicate. Now, doesn't that just stick in your craw???

[DBath]

36 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, if in the unfortunate event that it does happen, you won't be able to hold yours.

Thanks for your 'kind' thoughts. I have no doubt, being a haughty arrogant <deleted>, you would probably rejoice were that to happen. Hopefully it won't, and I realize I'm making what I consider to be a sound calculated risk in spite of what you're implying.

Edited May 11, 2021 by DBath

[BarraMarra]

DBath  Would it change your mind if you were being taken into an ICU unit and took to a young Nurses bed where she is on a life support due to taking care of a Covid patient.  She was healthy with no health concerns until she probably gave her life to help someone infected. This has happened in the UK. Deniers will only understand the severity when there infected with it.

[richard_smith237]

21 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

DBath  Would it change your mind if you were being taken into an ICU unit and took to a young Nurses bed where she is on a life support due to taking care of a Covid patient.  She was healthy with no health concerns until she probably gave her life to help someone infected. This has happened in the UK. Deniers will only understand the severity when there infected with it.

 

I’m not a denier by any means. But I am consistently reading incomplete news, receiving an incomplete story etc...  ‘incompleteness’ is so common now that when I read awful news such as you have reported above my first reaction is now that there must be more to the story and my first questions are...

.... Did this nurse have any underlying conditions? is she heavily over weight etc ?

 

 

I do know of one young girl last year, she was hit hard by Covid-19, no hospitalised, but was in a very rough way for a week (like a very bad dose of the flu - which no one wants). 

 

 

 

I saw in the news of another nurse who'd died of covid'. He funeral procession passed the hospital where she’d worked. It was national news. I was intrigued, I googled and found that his nurse had been seriously unwell and had not worked for 18 months, she’d died of cancer, but also had Covid-19 when she passed. 

 

We all saw the picture of the ‘girl with the allergy all over her body’ (posted in this thread but has since been deleted) - this picture was from a different hospital and from over a year ago (pre-Covid) and has nothing to do with a vaccine (as reported by an anti-fake news Thai site). 

 

Again... I’m not saying Covid-19 is not serious, but there has been a huge amount of misinformation and in many cases deliberately delivering part of the story to suit a narrative. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by richard_smith237

[Aomelia]

17 hours ago, placeholder said:

Your comment is very telling. You seem to be taking out your animus against the Chinese govt on a company that happens to be Chinese. I've cited scientific studies time and again to show that Coronavac is very effective against severe covid symptoms up to and including death.

Whatever the faults of the Chinese govt may be, and they are legion, has nothing to do with the scientific question of whether or not a vaccine can spare people from needless suffering and death. 

Another fb epidemiologist 

[Aomelia]

18 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Anti vaxxer?

Maybe just a Anti China Vaxxer 

[Logosone]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

What you still don't understand is that less people will die if they get vaccinated than will die if they don't regardless of whether the vaccine is Astra Zeneca, J&J, or Coronavac. 

 

What you don't understand is that that may or may not be the case, it depends on the safety of these vaccines. Even if the efficacy of the vaccines is very high, which looks to be the case, the odds of surviving a cerebral thrombosis are much lower than the odds of surviving Covid19 for most people. 

 

In terms of the safety of the vaccines there have now been so many reports of side effects, including fatal side effects, world wide, not just in Thailand that one wonders how the medical regulatory agencies could approve these vaccines without proper information about the side effects being known. In Germany alone there are now 62 confirmed cases of cerebral thrombosis. Directly linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine. It looks like Sinovac has issues, J&J has issues and Pfizer has issues.

 

https://idw-online.de/de/news768133

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Logosone

[BarraMarra]

Just now, BarraMarra said:

 

As i stated Richard she had NO underlying health concerns. You don't have to be in close proximity to contact Covid as it can be transferred from Surfaces such as Door Handles, toilet flushes. sink taps and even the Box you have just touched to get your rubber gloves on. This is how it is so easy to transfer it to another person.

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17 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

As i stated Richard she had NO underlying health concerns. You don't have to be in close proximity to contact Covid as it can be transferred from Surfaces such as Door Handles, toilet flushes. sink taps and even the Box you have just touched to get your rubber gloves on. This is how it is so easy to transfer it to another person.

Actually, not so much.

 

COVID-19 rarely spreads through surfaces. So why are we still deep cleaning?

The coronavirus behind the pandemic can linger on doorknobs and other surfaces, but these aren’t a major source of infection.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4

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30 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

What you don't understand is that that may or may not be the case, it depends on the safety of these vaccines. Even if the efficacy of the vaccines is very high, which looks to be the case, the odds of surviving a cerebral thrombosis are much lower than the odds of surviving Covid19 for most people. 

 

In terms of the safety of the vaccines there have now been so many reports of side effects, including fatal side effects, world wide, not just in Thailand that one wonders how the medical regulatory agencies could approve these vaccines without proper information about the side effects being known. In Germany alone there are now 62 confirmed cases of cerebral thrombosis. Directly linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine. It looks like Sinovac has issues, J&J has issues and Pfizer has issues.

 

https://idw-online.de/de/news768133

 

You have a definite ingenuity for mangling the math. The number of people afflicted with cerebral thrombosis after being vaccinated is very small. So even if there is a 100% fatality rate, the total number of deaths among those vaccinated will still be less than if they hadn't been vaccinated.

[placeholder]

50 minutes ago, Aomelia said:

Another fb epidemiologist 

No just someone who follows the research done by epidemiologists. It helps that I don't allow my distaste for the Chinese govt to override my ability to understand the data presented by the experts.

[Aomelia]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

No just someone who follows the research done by epidemiologists. It helps that I don't allow my distaste for the Chinese govt to override my ability to understand the data presented by the experts.

We have a Apologist for China make sure you buy an MG , I’m sure you did already , Wumaos what can you do 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

You have a definite ingenuity for mangling the math. The number of people afflicted with cerebral thrombosis after being vaccinated is very small. So even if there is a 100% fatality rate, the total number of deaths among those vaccinated will still be less than if they hadn't been vaccinated.

 

[Playing devils advocate] If I isolate until the virus has passed (if it passes) then I don’t need the vaccination, then I don’t have to face the elevated risk of CVST and my risk of exposure to Covid-19 has effectively been erradated due to isolation. 

 

That said: then there is an elevated risk for CVST due to isolating and leaving a more sedentary lifestyle !

 

Its mine field. 

 

[Devils advocate switch off] - realistically there are risks everywhere - the simple question is, are we better off taking the vaccine or not. IMO - better off taking it. But to make that decision I want to see unadulterated facts so I can evaluate true risk without any bias.

 

 

[Aomelia]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

No just someone who follows the research done by epidemiologists. It helps that I don't allow my distaste for the Chinese govt to override my ability to understand the data presented by the experts.

My Mother is an Epidemiologist from Berkeley, stick to what you know Chinese 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Aomelia said:

My Mother is an Epidemiologist from Berkeley, stick to what you know Chinese 

Even if it's true that your mother is an epidemiologist, (and given that you are posting anonymously in this forum how could we know that) are you contending that her knowledge has been passed to you genetically? And even if your Mother is an epidemiologist, if she follows your line of reasoning, (if we want to dignify what you assert as evidence of reasoning,) she ain't much of one.

[Logosone]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You have a definite ingenuity for mangling the math. The number of people afflicted with cerebral thrombosis after being vaccinated is very small. So even if there is a 100% fatality rate, the total number of deaths among those vaccinated will still be less than if they hadn't been vaccinated.

 

See math is just a representation of reality. It is not reality.  If you get cerebral thrombosis after taking Zeneca your protection against a virus or your belief in symbols like numbers will not be much consolation to you.

 

100% fatality rate from cerebral thrombosis and 62 cases now, and rising,  in Germany alone is a reality maths can not dispel. Again, there is no consolation in dying of cerebral thrombosis and being told that mathematically it was rare. Of course it's rare. So is dying from Covid. The question is, is the vaccine causing illness and or death? Looks like they are.

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

See math is just a representation of reality. It is not reality.  If you get cerebral thrombosis after taking Zeneca your protection against a virus or your belief in symbols like numbers will not be much consolation to you.

 

100% fatality rate from cerebral thrombosis and 62 cases now, and rising,  in Germany alone is a reality maths can not dispel. Again, there is no consolation in dying of cerebral thrombosis and being told that mathematically it was rare. Of course it's rare. So is dying from Covid. The question is, is the vaccine causing illness and or death? Looks like they are.

And if you  believe that it's extremely unlikely that a meteorite can land on your head and kill you, but you go outside anyway and one does, then your belief in numbers also won't be much consolation to you either. Please stop with the inanity already. You have no rational answer to the fact that that more lives will be saved by taking a vaccine than would be the case if the vaccine were not taken.

Edited May 11, 2021 by placeholder

[Logosone]

20 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And if you  believe that it's extremely unlikely that a meteorite can land on your head and kill you, but you go outside anyway and one does, then your belief in numbers also won't be much consolation to you either. Please stop with the inanity already. You have no rational answer to the fact that that more lives will be saved by taking a vaccine than would be the case if the vaccine were not taken.

 

Again, you don't get the point, I'm not looking at it from what happens to the majority perspective, I'm looking at it purely from my perspective. And it is quite clear that if I take a vaccine then the risk of cerebral thrombosis is significantly increased. Not a huge fan of cerebral thrombosis. Take it if you want, your life.

 

Quote

unlikely that a meteorite can land on your head and kill you

 

I can assure you that the risk of you getting cerebral thrombosis after a vaccine is fantastically greater than the risk of a meteorite landing on your head.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Logosone

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Again, you don't get the point, I'm not looking at it from what happens to the majority perspective, I'm looking at it purely from my perspective. And it is quite clear that if I take a vaccine then the risk of cerebral thrombosis is significantly increased. Not a huge fan of cerebral thrombosis. Take it if you want, your life.

I get it. It's like playing the lottery. I'm not looking at it from the perspective of the likelihood of somebody winning it. I should look at what it would mean to me to win it. I'm gonna rush out and put all my savings into lottery tickets!

[Logosone]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I get it. It's like playing the lottery. I'm not looking at it from the perspective of the likelihood of somebody winning it. I should look at what it would mean to me to win it. I'm gonna rush out and put all my savings into lottery tickets!

 

Again, the lottery comparison is total numbskullery, I think you'll find the risk of cerebral thrombosis is much higher than the odds of winning the lottery. In terms of health gaming logic does not apply.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Again, the lottery comparison is total numbskullery, I think you'll find the risk of cerebral thrombosis is much higher than the odds of winning the lottery. In terms of health gaming logic does not apply.

Gaming logic is still logic. The odds are still the odds whether the consequences are positive or negative. The odds of contracting cerebral thrombosis are a lot less than the odds of dying from Covid or being disabled by it.

[Logosone]

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Gaming logic is still logic. The odds are still the odds whether the consequences are positive or negative. The odds of contracting cerebral thrombosis are a lot less than the odds of dying from Covid or being disabled by it.

Yes but logic is just a representation of real life, not real life itself. Odds and symbols will be of no use to you if you do happen to get cerebral thrombosis. And of course the odds of both dying of cerebral thrombosis and of Covid19 are both very low, however, with cerebral thrombosis you are near guaranteed to die, whereas with Covid19 your survival chances are pretty good. If you want to look at odds.