Employer doesn't pay the confirmed salary

[Julia Kova]

Hi ☀️ Please, just want to ask if anyone has similar experience or maybe can advice a legal representative. The situation is: 

I have been working for a company almost 3 years. We signed the contract in Bangkok and they didn't give me a copy. My role and position is in our branch in Phuket so I moved to there.

In the contract it is stated - probation salary X, after probation - salary will increase. And it also clearly says in the contract that probation is 3 months +can be extended +1 month (okay, maximum 4 months). And I am working for this company 3 years for now. And they didn't adjust - increased my salary after probation.

I tried to talk to my boss about that, I emailed to HR, I asked area manager - everyone just kept quiet and Hr simply ignored my messages.

Suddenly, I've got my contract! I have it on hands, and the question is - can I protect my rights now? When I have Contract and salary slips on hands?! Is it correct to go to the labor office? Or any "underwater rocks"?

 

Thank you very much for your constructive comments!

Edited May 19, 2021 by Julia Kova

[blackcab]

Contact the Department of Labor Protection and Welfare. They are very fair and will ensure that you receive the salary you are contacted to receive. They also have English speakers who will help you.

 

For now, make a scanned copy of your contact and email it to your private email address. It's always good to have a backup plan.

[covidiot]

If you go to the labor bureau, they may pay you what is stated in the contract.

 

But then you will have a bad relationship with your boss and they may find an excuse to fire you eventually.

 

 

 

 

[anon7854]

Quote

 We signed the contract in Bangkok and they didn't give me a copy

Illegal.

 

 

Quote

In the contract it is stated - probation salary X, after probation - salary will increase. And it also clearly says in the contract that probation is 3 months +can be extended +1 month (okay, maximum 4 months)

Either they found a loop hole so you are still on repeated  probation (that would probably be illegal but Thais are resourceful )or they didn't respect the contract at all .

 

I suggest a direct meeting with your  boss rather than emails to see what is going on. It looks to me they they didn't respect the contract , you can go to the labor protection but you'll have to take in account the company will probably fire you with the first change they got. 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by anon7854

[anthony0339]

You worked three years for lower salary than your contract so this will be an issue 

[Ventenio]

13 hours ago, blackcab said:

They are very fair and will ensure that you receive the salary you are contacted to receive.

experience here.

 

salary was NOT ensured.......  got about 30% of what was on the contract in the end.

 

or told to sue them in BKK
 

i told them both.  look, contract, both signed.....they won't pay me what we agreed on.

 

again, i got 30% because i knew complaining wasn't helping me at all......surprised they paid me at all.  

 

seems like you burned your bridges already....so they might just tell you to sue them in BKK and let us know how that goes....

 

gl

Edited May 20, 2021 by Ventenio

[blackcab]

8 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

....so they might just tell you to sue them in BKK and let us know how that goes....

 

The OP will not have to sue their employer in Bangkok themselves.

 

The Department of Labour Protection and Welfare will summon the employer to the Labour Court, for free.

[Ventenio]

10 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

The OP will not have to sue their employer in Bangkok themselves.

 

The Department of Labour Protection and Welfare will summon the employer to the Labour Court, for free.

that might be true.

 

in my case, i was not told this.  i was told i would have to spend my own money and go to BKK and sue them...

 

i certainly asked them to enforce my contract, but i was told i had to meet with my employer and we had to agree on something.  i told them the contract is exactly that and i just want what the contract says.....blank stares.....

 

also, in my case, English wasn't good.  

 

 

[anthony0339]

There are plenty of lawyers in Thailand, call one.

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, anthony0339 said:

There are plenty of lawyers in Thailand, call one.

No need to get a lawyer.

 

The Labor Dept will; provde if needed.

 

OP needs to go to the Labor Office, with copy of contract.

[blackcab]

6 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

that might be true

 

It is true.

 

Unfortunately, in your case it appears things were not explained to you properly.

 

The first stage of the process is a form of arbitration, where both parties sit with a Court appointed arbitrator and try to agree a compromise. Neither party is obliged to compromise, but in some cases a party might choose to. This process takes place to free up Court time.

 

If neither party can agree a compromise then the case will be presented in front of a judge and the Court will make an order.

 

In cases where the employer has not paid the contracted amount there is no need to compromise as the Court will order the outstanding amount be paid.

[natway09]

Why did you leave it so long ?

Think very carefully if you want the work or not.

If not, good chance the Labour Dept will get you back pay, but start looking for another job as the employer  will loose face & you are toast.

I also hope you have correct B Visa & current  work permit. If not, walk away

[Ventenio]

7 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

It is true.

 

Unfortunately, in your case it appears things were not explained to you properly.

 

The first stage of the process is a form of arbitration, where both parties sit with a Court appointed arbitrator and try to agree a compromise. Neither party is obliged to compromise, but in some cases a party might choose to. This process takes place to free up Court time.

 

If neither party can agree a compromise then the case will be presented in front of a judge and the Court will make an order.

 

In cases where the employer has not paid the contracted amount there is no need to compromise as the Court will order the outstanding amount be paid.

it was my first complaint, and it definitely didn't make me feel better and put a good taste in my mouth

 

let me think....they owed me over 100,000 and we agreed on 30,000.   i remember telling them, pay me what the contract says and kept telling the labor department to enforce the contract......... blank stares.  then they said i can sue them in BKK.........they said it will take a long time and be expensive.  

 

i tried to talk to them for about an hour.....in Thai, English, whatever....but i left with the feeling that nobody is helping me.  

 

curious to hear from other's experiences.........of course some things are lost in translation, except the final result.  clearly one party didn't care about a contract.  that made me think.....

Edited May 20, 2021 by Ventenio

[CLW]

You might get your salary, by negotiation, under threat of court or eventually court itself.

 

Be prepared to be fired afterwards most likely. If they are good employers, why hold back agreed payments or rise thereof?

Most Thai employers are known to be stingy and cheapskates when it comes to salary.

[BobBKK]

Why leave it three years?  you should have been all over it after 4 months?  they owe you a lot of backpay.

[Ventenio]

another experience from two "friends".  they helped a place, had work permits....everything was fine until both parties complained against each other.  then the police showed up twice to talk to the falang and check everything.  soon the falangs went to a different province.    tons of stress.  the falangs had no chance.  they didn't go to labor  

 

only say positive things.  be professional.  i know that can be hard when you feel there has been an injustice.

 

I was very, very calm.  However, with a smile, I asked, "can you just tell them to pay the contract?"   no response.  i smiled some more.   

 

anyhow, curious to hear from others who went to court.  

 

 

[AlQaholic]

Does it say "Contract" in the document? According the Thai Labor Protection act, A limited time employment contract can only be done for a very specific time limited project, which has a specific ending time. For all other cases, an "Employment agreement" is made, for which a time limit cannot be set. If there is a time limit and the job involves everyday routine activities such as general management, consulting etc. and not a specific project, that time limit has no meaning and no validity.

For the payments, I think you are in a grey zone legally, by accepting the salary payed for so long, it may be understood that you accepted the payments. You need some documented proof that you have complained or asked about the problem as soon as probation was over.

Edited May 20, 2021 by AlQaholic

[Sydebolle]

Clear case, take 'em to the cleaners. 

You have:
- contract
- pay slips (or bank credits on your account)

That suffices. If they terminate you, they have to observe a termination period. Once done, and provided they cannot prove any wrongdoing from your part, you can carry on and sue for "unfair dismissal"; by experience gives you another three months salary. 

Get all this nicely written up and file it with the Labour department. It takes time but you're walking away with victory and money which is rightfully yours. Good luck! 

 

[blackcab]

On 5/20/2021 at 3:43 PM, AlQaholic said:

Does it say "Contract" in the document? According the Thai Labor Protection act, A limited time employment contract can only be done for a very specific time limited project, which has a specific ending time. For all other cases, an "Employment agreement" is made, for which a time limit cannot be set.

 

The precise wording on the title of the document is not usually a matter for concern. The Labour Court looks at all of the facts in the round, and they will not dismiss a case over the use of a word in this way. If they did this then all employers would have to do is write bad contracts and then they could never be held to account.

 

The Labour Court is used to dealing with people from quite disadvantaged backgrounds who are taking action against employers who come from a different background.

[blackcab]

15 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Get all this nicely written up and file it with the Labour department.

 

You don't need to write anything either in English or Thai. Take your documents to the Department for Labour Protection and Welfare and they will take you through the process. The yare very helpful and are used to dealing with people who don't know the law.

[EvetsKram]

2 hours ago, natway09 said:

Why did you leave it so long ?

Think very carefully if you want the work or not.

If not, good chance the Labour Dept will get you back pay, but start looking for another job as the employer  will loose face & you are toast.

I also hope you have correct B Visa & current  work permit. If not, walk away

A B visa is not the only type,  people can apply & receive a work permit on marriage extension

[xtrnuno41]

16 hours ago, blackcab said:

Contact the Department of Labor Protection and Welfare. They are very fair and will ensure that you receive the salary you are contacted to receive. They also have English speakers who will help you.

 

For now, make a scanned copy of your contact and email it to your private email address. It's always good to have a backup plan.

I cant admit if they have English speaking officers there (Phuket) right now.

My wife was at 2016/17 in Phuket. the only officer who could speak "some English". Actually very basic.

As far as i know they didnt change her for another English speaking officer. but as i said it has been already 5 years ago.

 

They take all cases and you can do your complaint. They investigate and contact employer.

They make a report, including actions and if you are right, they summon employer.

Employer has to respond in agreeing then or go to court.

The officers report is binding for the case and can only be contested in court.

The case is then presented by a Thai labor lawyer, handling the case in front of court.

 

Im amazed Ventenio isnt heard and helped. If there is a case in injustice, they should act.

 

Julia should go to labor office, maybe should have done long time ago. However i can understand her position, trying first to solve it herself.

But three years is a long time. She has papers now and can show more.

But i think maybe it would have gone faster, as officer can claim contract?

Maybe she needs an interpreter to get it going on.  

Thai (not only) employers have peeks and pokes to make it nasty. But ok thats worldwide.

[Colabamumbai]

13 hours ago, covidiot said:

If you go to the labor bureau, they may pay you what is stated in the contract.

 

But then you will have a bad relationship with your boss and they may find an excuse to fire you eventually.

 

 

 

 

I waited 2 years, went to the labour board after I quit. Labour Board made them pay me the 3,500 monthly housing allowance, as stated in the contract. Also told them to take it out of future contracts. 

[pacovl46]

I’d get in touch with a lawyer and have him go through the contract. If he thinks you’ve got a case, I’d start looking for a new job immediately and as soon as you have signed the new contract, I’d take the lawyer with you to your company to hand in your resignation and take the necessary steps to get the rest of your money! 

[covidiot]

29 minutes ago, Colabamumbai said:

I waited 2 years, went to the labour board after I quit.

yes, that's what i would do.

find another job, then go to labour board. 

 

[Deli]

You silently agreed on working for more than 2 year for a lower salary than agreed on. Is the rise after probation stipulated in your contract as a figure ? If not, what will you claim ? In any case, you need a new job if now playing hardball.

[Pedrogaz]

Find another job and leave. When an employer does this, nothing good can be expected from them.

[Julia Kova]

Good evening ☀️ Thanks everyone for your time and care! 

 

So, I don't plan to continue working for this company any longer. I plan to quit and relocate.

I didn't mean to keep working with the lower salary that long but I am a very polite lady - I told my boss, I told HR, I tried to message and email, but it didn't work and I didn't want to make drama in the company. So now is the time for something more.. let's say - elegant punishment.

 

What I learned from this topic (and thank you everyone once again for the great suggestions):

- I will try to find that emails and messages where I asked about my salary before

- I saved copy of my "Letter of Employment" (it says like that, not a Contract)

- And I have my monthly salary slips since 2019

So together with all these documents I will go to Labor Office. 

I am doing this not only for my self, the Company does similar things (and even worst) to my team mates. I want to make a Precedent and I hope after being checked by Labor Office the Company will be treating Employees with respect. 

 

 

Will update here about results ???? 

 

Thank you,

With smile and kind regards,

Julia

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Puccini]

20 hours ago, Julia Kova said:

...In the contract it is stated - probation salary X, after probation - salary will increase...

Does the contract say by how much the salary will increase?

Edited May 20, 2021 by Puccini

[Julia Kova]

4 minutes ago, Puccini said:

Does the contract say by how the salary will increase?

Yes, the numbers are in there.