All eyes on China’s Sinovac – Thailand’s vaccine choice for emergency

[mohinga]

3 hours ago, ryane66 said:

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/middle-east/article/3133977/coronavirus-uae-offer-third-dose-recipients-chinas-sinopharm

This article is on the Sinopharm vaxx, not the Sinovac one being discussed in this forum. I think a lot of people will confuse the two, partly due to wishful thinking. i.e. a big motivation to getting any vaxx is the possibility of international travel. It's yet to be decided, so I'm speculating here; but I think the major Western airline carriers will only credit the WHO "approved" vaccines. i.e. the 2 mRNA ones/Astrazenaca/Sinopharm and ?J+J?. It could also be the case that all carriers will only accept vaxx permits for the vaccines approved by the county of destination. So, again, mostly the WHO approved ones.

Personally, I will wait for things to evolve. Here in Malaysia there are 3 options: Pfizer, Sinovac and Astrazenaca. If a gun was put to my head, and I had to choose one it would be the Sinovac. But I am hoping that later this year, when a majority have been vaxxed, the government will allow more options. They have already indicated that they will likely throw open the process to private hospitals and clinics.

And, to me, the more interesting possibility is that they will approve the Russian jab. So far they have only seemed to follow Washington's and London's lead regarding approvals. More than 60 countries are using the Sputnik V, and even the Lancet has given it approval; but the Western powers don't seem to want to allow Russia to gain any influence. (e.g: U.S. stops Brazil from importing Sputnik V).

The MSM seems to love the mRNA vaxxes; and have reported on the "possible risks" of the Astrazena and J+J jabs. If there have been major problems with the Sputnik V vaxx they surely would have broadcasted them.

Absent such reports I'm opting for the Russian jab.

As far as safety is concerned, I see it as less of a risk than the ones currently on offer.

As for efficiency... well who knows? It could likely reduce the severity of a covid infection were I to get the bug. That's probably the best that any of them can offer.

Unfortunately I don't think it will be a ticket to international travel.

[mommysboy]

It's effective enough to keep most out of hospital, therefore it's good.

 

But we really need to see the safety profile. Thailand should know that by now.

[clivebaxter]

Why and who said it was not for the over 60's and why and who changed that?

[hotandsticky]

14 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It's effective enough to keep most out of hospital, therefore it's good.

 

But we really need to see the safety profile. Thailand should know that by now.

 

 

As should WHO, who are the body responsible for approving emergency use of vaccines.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, mohinga said:

The MSM seems to love the mRNA vaxxes; and have reported on the "possible risks" of the Astrazena and J+J jabs. If there have been major problems with the Sputnik V vaxx they surely would have broadcasted them.

 

Right. And the MSM has once again pulled the wool over the eyes of those gullible parties known as epidemiologists and virologists. In fact pretty much the entire medical profession as well. Bad MSM!!!

[Joinaman]

think i will stick with the copy of certificates from Khaosan road for now, lets see the long term effects first

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, club said:

Lets cut the BS. Its the cheapest and weakest vaccine on the market. That's why Thailand is pushing it so much

Actually, it's not the cheapest. As for being the weakest, a far fairer way of putting it is that it's the least strong. It provides very powerful protection against the development of serious symptoms, particularly that most serious symptom of all, death.

[fondue zoo]

It has been said that new studies being conducted are also an attempt to endorse the vaccine for use in the Covax programme. 

Even the WHO, not usually overly critical of China, have raised some doubts about the side affect and efficacy data for over 55's

[CANSIAM]

7 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

More importantly:

How does the Sinovac fare against the U.K. and Indian variants ??

and :

Is it accepted for travelling to different countries ?

I think as it stands at the moment, many countries in the West / Europe only accept Phizer, Moderna, JJ, AstraZeneca.  Two Sinovac jabs in your arm could possibly make trips abroad a headache......

[bangsaenguy]

3 hours ago, club said:

Lets cut the BS. Its the cheapest and weakest vaccine on the market. That's why Thailand is pushing it so much

Do not forget the CP connection. All about the money as usual

Edited May 22, 2021 by bangsaenguy

[friendofthai]

6 hours ago, Mavideol said:

why take it if only 50% effective, currently anybody with good immune system  has 50/50 %  (or more) chances of getting infected if getting the Chinese vax still have the same 50/50 % chances, why get it

Because of high efficiency in preventing severe symptoms. COVID without severe symptoms is just a common cold. Nothing to be worried about.
This is a good example of the art of journalism - fooling people by using true facts.

[Kiujunn]

8 hours ago, keith101 said:

Definitely not but it is the cheapest . 

It's the most expensive one.

That's why it's used.

More kickbacks.

And 15% of Sinovac is owned by Dhanin (owner of CP, richest private person in Thailand).

[riclag]

Special shout out to that Gov! Without you "none of this would be  happening "

[Kiujunn]

8 hours ago, DavisH said:

Side effects are rare. My wife had har nursing students vaccinated yesterday with Sinovac. Only on had a major reaction - vomiting. But she was an expected reaction for this individual. That was about 100 students or so that was vaccinated. Nothing out of the ordinary was felt but the other students. 

100 individuals vaccinated - you wouldn't expect any serious side effects.

Serious side effects of vaccines have a frequency of maybe 1 in 100,000 (AZ cerebral thrombosis)

 

MoPH now admits 2 kinds of serious side effects: anaphylaxis and polyneuropathy. They don't publish frequencies.

Social media are full with stories of people who died after Sinovac.

There were 7 (?) young people in Rayong and about the same number in Khonkaen with symptoms of a transient ischemic attack (like a reversible stroke). In one person that I know of the symptoms were not reversible, she really had and still has symptoms like a stroke. I have no way of telling how frequent these occurrences are. 

A big private hospital recently vaccinated over 3000 staff (not completely voluntarily), including elderly staff, no problems. 

[DavisH]

6 hours ago, club said:

Lets cut the BS. Its the cheapest and weakest vaccine on the market. That's why Thailand is pushing it so much

az is cheaper than sinovac. 

[DavisH]

1 hour ago, Kiujunn said:

100 individuals vaccinated - you wouldn't expect any serious side effects.

Serious side effects of vaccines have a frequency of maybe 1 in 100,000 (AZ cerebral thrombosis)

 

MoPH now admits 2 kinds of serious side effects: anaphylaxis and polyneuropathy. They don't publish frequencies.

Social media are full with stories of people who died after Sinovac.

There were 7 (?) young people in Rayong and about the same number in Khonkaen with symptoms of a transient ischemic attack (like a reversible stroke). In one person that I know of the symptoms were not reversible, she really had and still has symptoms like a stroke. I have no way of telling how frequent these occurrences are. 

A big private hospital recently vaccinated over 3000 staff (not completely voluntarily), including elderly staff, no problems. 

It was about 400 students, actually (my error). Severe side effects are rare, any way you look at it. No vaccine is 100% safe for everyone. I think most people know that. The problem there is a lot of misinformation that Thais will grab hold of. The last one I heard of was that each jab takes 2 years off your life. I think the more people that vaccinate and show no/few side effects may encourage more people to get vaccinated. They are far more likely to fall off their bike and die on the road than from any vaccination. 

[zhounan]

New geopolitical spaces are being consolidated as they were after the Second World War, this time through vaccine distribution.

 

The countries receiving the vaccines will be forever grateful to the donor countries.
The rhetoric of the next century is being created here.

[fusion58]

Final WHO review:

 

https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/immunization/sage/2021/april/5_sage29apr2021_critical-evidence_sinovac.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2t27thE2_Vl0uSkQk9qM5S50LBBoaS2NrEznsdiy3QndWw4P5EF3ls5Xo
 

[sirineou]

There are several threads running about Sinovac with the same boring replies. It seems that people have made up their minds and no amount of facts will change them,. A poster will posts something that is untrue, a reply will show him that what they say is untrue, with attached link from a reputable source. The next day on another thread the same poster posts the same garbage. 

Perhaps people think this is a game, and they find it nessacery to defend the home team  vaccine. 

   The 50% efficacy is from clinical trials,  since then millions of doses have been administered around the world. with statistically insignificant side affects , and reductions in hospitalizations, deaths, and serious illness as high as 98%

Source, Bloomberg news.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-11/china-s-sinovac-shot-found-highly-effective-in-real-world-study

but for those defending the home team vaccine, Hey , you can still have the "9 nursing students get ill" article to post with big letters. 

 

[dinsdale]

18 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

More importantly:

How does the Sinovac fare against the U.K. and Indian variants ??

and :

Is it accepted for travelling to different countries ?

The EU does not recognise the Sinovac CoranoVac. Matter of point Sinovac is the company and CoronaVac is the vaccine.

[dinsdale]

11 hours ago, fondue zoo said:

It has been said that new studies being conducted are also an attempt to endorse the vaccine for use in the Covax programme. 

Even the WHO, not usually overly critical of China, have raised some doubts about the side affect and efficacy data for over 55's

The WHO has data relating to this vac but as of yet has not released. As such this vac does not have the OK from the WHO.

[dinsdale]

14 hours ago, mohinga said:

This article is on the Sinopharm vaxx, not the Sinovac one being discussed in this forum. I think a lot of people will confuse the two, partly due to wishful thinking. i.e. a big motivation to getting any vaxx is the possibility of international travel. It's yet to be decided, so I'm speculating here; but I think the major Western airline carriers will only credit the WHO "approved" vaccines. i.e. the 2 mRNA ones/Astrazenaca/Sinopharm and ?J+J?. It could also be the case that all carriers will only accept vaxx permits for the vaccines approved by the county of destination. So, again, mostly the WHO approved ones.

Personally, I will wait for things to evolve. Here in Malaysia there are 3 options: Pfizer, Sinovac and Astrazenaca. If a gun was put to my head, and I had to choose one it would be the Sinovac. But I am hoping that later this year, when a majority have been vaxxed, the government will allow more options. They have already indicated that they will likely throw open the process to private hospitals and clinics.

And, to me, the more interesting possibility is that they will approve the Russian jab. So far they have only seemed to follow Washington's and London's lead regarding approvals. More than 60 countries are using the Sputnik V, and even the Lancet has given it approval; but the Western powers don't seem to want to allow Russia to gain any influence. (e.g: U.S. stops Brazil from importing Sputnik V).

The MSM seems to love the mRNA vaxxes; and have reported on the "possible risks" of the Astrazena and J+J jabs. If there have been major problems with the Sputnik V vaxx they surely would have broadcasted them.

Absent such reports I'm opting for the Russian jab.

As far as safety is concerned, I see it as less of a risk than the ones currently on offer.

As for efficiency... well who knows? It could likely reduce the severity of a covid infection were I to get the bug. That's probably the best that any of them can offer.

Unfortunately I don't think it will be a ticket to international travel.

These are not mRNA vaccines neither is Sputnik. They are adenovirus vaccines. Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA vaccines.

[Kiujunn]

8 hours ago, zhounan said:

donor countries

Correct: vendor countries

Sinovac is the most expensive of all vaccines in Thailand as published elsewhere on TVF.

[Kiujunn]

 

14 hours ago, mohinga said:

U.S. stops Brazil from importing Sputnik V

You probably are not familar with the medical establishment in Brazil.

Butantã has a worldwide reputation. They are quite capable of deciding themselves. 

They had reasons to refuse Sputnik.

BTW They accepted Sinovac, I don't think the US was happy about it.

[Peterw42]

Do people realise the yearly flu shots usually only have an efficacy of 50%, some years depending on the strain its as low as 40%.

Prior to the MRNA vaccines, 50% was normal.

[Ventenio]

The people who created the most deadly pandemic in the Universe will force us to take their "medicine."
 

Seems perfectly normal.

 

i'll actually take their jab........and if something bad happens my home country will laugh at me for being stupid.  if i'm fine, nobody cares, except me.  

 

i would feel better if China was a little bit more sympathetic after the outbreak......or should I say the media..........

 

still waiting for an apology China 

[Kiujunn]

9 hours ago, DavisH said:

It was about 400 students, actually (my error). Severe side effects are rare, any way you look at it. No vaccine is 100% safe for everyone. I think most people know that. The problem there is a lot of misinformation that Thais will grab hold of. The last one I heard of was that each jab takes 2 years off your life. I think the more people that vaccinate and show no/few side effects may encourage more people to get vaccinated. They are far more likely to fall off their bike and die on the road than from any vaccination. 

400 is way not enough.

Rare side effects happen with every vaccine,  and you have to vaccinate millions AND REGISTER AND COUNT AND PUBLISH THE SIDE EFFECTS. 

That's how the world learned about anaphylaxis with mRNA vaccines and thrombosis with vector vaccines (in the magnitude of 10 per million).

This is not happening with Sinovac, that's why they cannot be trusted.

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

400 is way not enough.

Rare side effects happen with every vaccine,  and you have to vaccinate millions AND REGISTER AND COUNT AND PUBLISH THE SIDE EFFECTS. 

That's how the world learned about anaphylaxis with mRNA vaccines and thrombosis with vector vaccines (in the magnitude of 10 per million).

This is not happening with Sinovac, that's why they cannot be trusted.

Where do you get this from ? Nobody is registering and counting sinovac side effects ?????

Every country in the world records side effects for all vaccines. Its part of the approval process, a process to monitor and record effectiveness, side effects etc.

Go to a doctor/hospitial anywhere in the world with vaccine side effects, there will be a process in place to monitor/record the side effects

 

[Kiujunn]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Where do you get this from ? Nobody is registering and counting sinovac side effects ?????

Every country in the world records side effects for all vaccines. Its part of the approval process, a process to monitor and record effectiveness, side effects etc.

Go to a doctor/hospitial anywhere in the world with vaccine side effects, there will be a process in place to monitor/record the side effects

 

Show me publications of Sinovacs side effects,  please.

Especially publications as thorough as the ones for side effects of mRNA vaccines,  AZ, J&J.

I will read them with great interest. 

[Peterw42]

12 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

Show me publications of Sinovacs side effects,  please.

Especially publications as thorough as the ones for side effects of mRNA vaccines,  AZ, J&J.

I will read them with great interest. 

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S1473-3099(20)30843-4/fulltext