Ivermectin: Yes, No or Maybe

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Why is it that any narrative that doesn't match yours is a conspiracy theory?  Have you considered the possibility that you're the one who's fallen for a conspiracy theory?   Like the one that says the virus popped up out of nature... 

 

It's not my narrative!  It's the FDA and that other article above.  The only one showing it's effective has been debunked and has NOT been peer reviewed.

 

Show me a proper review of this drug showing it works and then we can talk.  Until then, this drug is touted as a cure by conspiracy theorists. 

 

Umm....a majority of scientists say it popped up out of nature.  That's not my narrative.  It's called science.

 

You've admitted in the past you like conspiracy theories.  It shows.  And with regards to this virus right now, they do more harm than good.

[impulse]

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

You've admitted in the past you like conspiracy theories.  It shows.  And with regards to this virus right now, they do more harm than good.

 

I do like a good conspiracy theory.  I'm especially pleased that so many from last year (a fortified election year) are being proven true.   Like gain of function funding.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by impulse

[Jeffr2]

24 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I do like a good conspiracy theory.  I'm especially pleased that so many from last year (a fortified election year) are being proven true.   Like gain of function funding.

 

Wow...you really do fall for the fake news conspiracy theories.  Too bad.  In the end, they help no one.  Only hurt society.

[Harry Om]

23 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

It's not my narrative!  It's the FDA and that other article above.  The only one showing it's effective has been debunked and has NOT been peer reviewed.

 

Show me a proper review of this drug showing it works and then we can talk.  Until then, this drug is touted as a cure by conspiracy theorists. 

 

Umm....a majority of scientists say it popped up out of nature.  That's not my narrative.  It's called science.

 

You've admitted in the past you like conspiracy theories.  It shows.  And with regards to this virus right now, they do more harm than good.

 

All the FDA says is that further investigation is needed. It makes no comment on efficacy.

 

As for studies, there's quite a few if you look. Nearly all show a decrease in viral load and subsequently less time in hospital and reduced severity of disease.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=ivermectin+covid-19&sort=pubdate

 

And FYI a pre-print article is NOT debunked. It's just pre-review.

 

 

[Jeffr2]

6 minutes ago, Harry Om said:

 

All the FDA says is that further investigation is needed. It makes no comment on efficacy.

 

As for studies, there's quite a few if you look. Nearly all show a decrease in viral load and subsequently less time in hospital and reduced severity of disease.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=ivermectin+covid-19&sort=pubdate

 

And FYI a pre-print article is NOT debunked. It's just pre-review.

 

 

Understood.  But what some here are trying to say is that this medicine works.  That's NOT been proven.  A few studies that have not been peer reviewed mean nothing.  There are many more reports from official agencies saying this does not work and it may even hurt. 

 

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-advises-against-use-ivermectin-prevention-treatment-covid-19-outside-randomised-clinical-trials

 

Results from clinical studies were varied, with some studies showing no benefit and others reporting a potential benefit. Most studies EMA reviewed were small and had additional limitations, including different dosing regimens and use of concomitant medications. EMA therefore concluded that the currently available evidence is not sufficient to support the use of ivermectin in COVID-19 outside clinical trials.

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/03/ivermectin-doesnt-speed-recovery-mild-covid-19-study-shows

 

Ivermectin doesn't speed recovery from mild COVID-19, study shows

[GroveHillWanderer]

23 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Terrible conspiracy theory.  If it worked, the WHO and many other organizations would be all over it.  Come on.  Conspiracy theories help no one with regards to this.  It's been debunked.  Admit it.

As far as I can tell looking at the literature, it's neither been proven to work, nor debunked. Virtually every medical regulatory authority in the world (including the FDA and WHO) says there need to be more studies.

 

The trouble is that no-one seems willing to fund the large double-blind, randomised, placebo-controlled studies that are needed.

 

Meanwhile niclosamide, another anti-parasitic drug with remarkably similar anti-viral effects to ivermectin in vitro (but no proven efficacy in vitro), is currently undergoing clinical trials funded by Danish company Union Therapeutics.

 

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled phase 1 trial of inhaled and intranasal niclosamide

 

It is interesting to note that Union Therapeutics stands to make a large amount of money if niclosamide proves successful, because they say they have "extensive intellectual property rights" to the drug. Ivermectin on the other hand, is a non-patent drug.

[Jeffr2]

Here's one reason I'm so against conspiracy theories.  Watch this.  Boggles my mind how some who are supposedly smart, are so stupid.  And actually doing harm to our society.  This lady should have her medical license revoked.  Anti-vaxxer's are the worst.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/06/09/sherri-tenpenny-ohio-false-vaccine-claim-lead-vpx.cnn

[Harry Om]

13 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Understood.  But what some here are trying to say is that this medicine works.  That's NOT been proven.  A few studies that have not been peer reviewed mean nothing.  There are many more reports from official agencies saying this does not work and it may even hurt. 

 

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-advises-against-use-ivermectin-prevention-treatment-covid-19-outside-randomised-clinical-trials

 

Results from clinical studies were varied, with some studies showing no benefit and others reporting a potential benefit. Most studies EMA reviewed were small and had additional limitations, including different dosing regimens and use of concomitant medications. EMA therefore concluded that the currently available evidence is not sufficient to support the use of ivermectin in COVID-19 outside clinical trials.

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/03/ivermectin-doesnt-speed-recovery-mild-covid-19-study-shows

 

Ivermectin doesn't speed recovery from mild COVID-19, study shows

 

Agreed. Clearly there needs to be a large scale proper study done.

 

As far as I can see the only harm in taking Ivermectin is that people could overdose or it conflicts with current meds, or that they suddenly think they are immune and stop taking all other precautions.

 

But if taken sensibly I don't really see much downside. And if it doesn't do anything, you still might get a placebo effect. ????

[Jeffr2]

8 minutes ago, Harry Om said:

 

Agreed. Clearly there needs to be a large scale proper study done.

 

As far as I can see the only harm in taking Ivermectin is that people could overdose or it conflicts with current meds, or that they suddenly think they are immune and stop taking all other precautions.

 

But if taken sensibly I don't really see much downside. And if it doesn't do anything, you still might get a placebo effect. ????

I would only take this drug with approval from your doc.  To suggest anything else is dangerous.  Not saying you'd do this, but some might.

 

Remember when taking hydroxychloroquine was being recommended?  It didn't work, actually hurt some, and because of this BS, the drug became hard to find.  Causing massive problems for those who desperately needed the drug for issues like Lupus.

[cclub75]

7 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Remember when taking hydroxychloroquine was being recommended?  It didn't work, actually hurt some, and because of this BS, the drug became hard to find.  Causing massive problems for those who desperately needed the drug for issues like Lupus.

 

Thank you to remember us that HCQ is used by people with lupus (40 000 people in France).. And you know what ? Without any problems, for years and years (lupus is chronic, so the intake of HCQ is regular).

????

 

As for the HCQ in Africa... well the numbers are even bigger... Its used against malaria, and in prophylaxis. Millions of people eat HCQ like M&M candies... Without any problem.

 

So the idea that HCQ used against Covid could become suddendly dangerous and fatal like the fake article published by the Lancet in may 2020, was and is still preposterous.

 

And was retracted by the Lancet.

 

Link : https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200605/lancet-retracts-hydroxychloroquine-study

[GroveHillWanderer]

48 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

similar anti-viral effects to ivermectin in vitro (but no proven efficacy in vitro)

Oops, typo. That should of course read:

 

"similar anti-viral effects to ivermectin in vitro (but no proven efficacy in vivo)"

[cclub75]

Since we are talking about ivermectine... here is a new study.

 

This molecule and its properties are truely fascinating.

 

Link : https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/emmm.201708743

 

Basically : it could easy motor symptoms in... sclerosis !

 

Link : https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.com/2018/07/13/anti-parasitic-agent-eases-ms-motor-symtoms-aid-remyelination-in-ms-mice/?cn-reloaded=1

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, cclub75 said:

 

Thank you to remember us that HCQ is used by people with lupus (40 000 people in France).. And you know what ? Without any problems, for years and years (lupus is chronic, so the intake of HCQ is regular).

????

 

As for the HCQ in Africa... well the numbers are even bigger... Its used against malaria, and in prophylaxis. Millions of people eat HCQ like M&M candies... Without any problem.

 

So the idea that HCQ used against Covid could become suddendly dangerous and fatal like the fake article published by the Lancet in may 2020, was and is still preposterous.

 

And was retracted by the Lancet.

 

Link : https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200605/lancet-retracts-hydroxychloroquine-study

In the end, it was a terrible conspiracy theory to recommend this drug.  A conspiracy theory that hurt millions as they couldn't get access to a drug desperately needed.  And for a drug that maybe didn't help at all.  One that potentially hurt some who did so without the advice of their physician.

 

But thanks for pointing out some research isn't to be relied upon.  Wait for it to be peer reviewed and generally accepted.

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/hydroxychloroquine-does-not-benefit-adults-hospitalized-covid-19

Hydroxychloroquine does not benefit adults hospitalized with COVID-19

 

A National Institutes of Health clinical trial evaluating the safety and effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of adults with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has formally concluded that the drug provides no clinical benefit to hospitalized patients. Though found not to cause harm, early findings in June when the trial was stopped indicated that the drug was not improving outcomes in COVID-19 patients. Final data and analyses of the trial, which was funded by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI), part of NIH, will appear online Nov. 9 in the Journal of the American Medical Association(link is external).

[Jeffr2]

20 minutes ago, cclub75 said:

Since we are talking about ivermectine... here is a new study.

 

This molecule and its properties are truely fascinating.

 

Link : https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/emmm.201708743

 

Basically : it could easy motor symptoms in... sclerosis !

 

Link : https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.com/2018/07/13/anti-parasitic-agent-eases-ms-motor-symtoms-aid-remyelination-in-ms-mice/?cn-reloaded=1

Totally off topic.  This is about covid, not sclerosis.

[cclub75]

A really fascinating molecule... Easy to understand why Big Pharma wages a total war against it...

 

"Ivermectin converts cold tumors hot and synergizes with immune checkpoint blockade for treatment of breast cancer"

 

New study, march 2021.

 

Source : https://www.nature.com/articles/s41523-021-00229-5

[metisdead]

A post with a link to a Conspiracy-Pseudoscience site has been removed.

[Yorkshire Tea]

From the UK Guardian newspaper website

 

 

Ivermectin is being studied by University of Oxford scientists as a possible Covid treatment as part of a British government-backed study that aims to aid recoveries in non-hospital settings.

Ivermectin resulted in a reduction of virus replication in laboratory studies, the university said, adding that a small pilot showed giving the drug early could reduce viral load and the duration of symptoms in some patients with mild Covid-19.

While the World Health Organization and European regulators have recommended against using ivermectin in Covid-19 patients – largely due to the absence of large, standalone trials – it is being used to treat the illness in some countries, including India, Mexico, Bolivia, and elsewhere in south America.

“By including ivermectin in a large-scale trial like Principle, we hope to generate robust evidence to determine how effective the treatment is against Covid-19, and whether there are benefits or harms associated with its use,” co-lead investigator of the trial Chris Butler said.

A report in the Times in January, revealing the plans for the Oxford study, described Ivermectin as a Covid “wonder drug” which said the drug could save “thousands of lives a day” and that the data from where it was being used was “compelling” and suggested mortality has fallen.

An Indian state health chief said last month:

Uttar Pradesh was the first state in the country to introduce large-scale prophylactic and therapeutic use of Ivermectin. In May-June 2020, a team at Agra, led by Dr Anshul Pareek, administered Ivermectin to all RRT team members in the district on an experimental basis.

It was observed that none of them developed Covid-19 despite being in daily contact with patients who had tested positive for the virus ... Despite being the state with the largest population base and a high population density, we have maintained a relatively low positivity rate and cases per million of population.

The FT has meanwhile reported on a University of Liverpool metaanalysis which it said “could cut chance of Covid-19 deaths by up to 75%” – with striking results from a number of smaller RCTs.

Critics have said that the Ivermectin saga has raised questions over an apparent lack of interest from pharmaceutical companies in repurposing existing, cheaper drugs due to a lesser profit motive.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/jun/23/coronavirus-live-news-thailand-record-daily-deaths-tokyo-olympics-alcohol

[xylophone]

On 6/8/2021 at 10:17 AM, clivebaxter said:

Can you take the cheap version for pets, is is that dangerous?

Be careful about this, because I read about a case of a guy who took the ivermectin that was prescribed for his dog, however he was found the next day with a broken neck, apparently as a result of trying to lick his balls!

[Harry Om]

A recent peer reviewed study (meta analysis) on Ivermectin, published in the American Journal of Therapeutics.

Conclusions: 

Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

 

https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.98040.aspx

 

Full discussion of this paper by Dr John Campbell.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j7am9kjMrk

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 6/9/2021 at 8:39 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Show me a proper review of this drug showing it works and then we can talk.  Until then, this drug is touted as a cure by conspiracy theorists. 

This looks like a fairly comprehensive review. It doesn't actually say, "ivermectin works" but it does say there is evidence indicating with a moderate degree of certainty that it may reduce the overall burden of CoVid-19.

 

Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infection

 

I dare say that this meta-analysis can be criticised (as others have been) on the basis that it only includes small-scale studies but part of the problem with ivermectin is that although most authorities say it needs better and larger studies to be done, no-one with the required money and resources (companies or governments) seemed willing to fund such studies - although that may finally be changing with the Oxford University PRINCIPLE study.

Edited June 26, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[Kevin Taylor]

I Watched a 3 hr podcast on the joe rogan experince , the guests were Dr Pierre Kory and Bret Weinstein the topic was ivermectin and covid. It was quite staggering to me, I had no opinion prior to listening to them after the podcast I have to say I believe them and in their advocating for the use of ivermectin in treatment and more importantly prevention of covid. Better if you listen yourself available on spotify. I have done some other research that seems to confirm what they say. Anyway I have concluded I will take the advice of the doctors advocating for ivermectin over these governing agencies that seem to represent the health industry and not the public. As of now in Thailand it seems the drug is available in animal form ie for pets. Does anyone have any update on availability for human consumption. I don't know if there is any difference 

[internationalism]

there use to be iver 6mg made by the atlantic laboratories. Boxes of 12 pills. Now difficult to come across.

No, there is not much difference in quality, just veterinarian comes in 5mg, 7.5mg and much larger doses (which are difficult to divide)  

[clivebaxter]

You can get the dog ones on lazada

[Daithi85]

Time to give ivermectin a chance. Amazing  how countries are holding this back. 

[Mr Meeseeks]

6 minutes ago, Daithi85 said:

Time to give ivermectin a chance. Amazing  how countries are holding this back. 

I thought he was a Russian wrestler. 

[GeorgeCross]

 

14 minutes ago, Daithi85 said:

Time to give ivermectin a chance. Amazing  how countries are holding this back. 

 

agree & should find out soon

 

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-23-ivermectin-be-investigated-possible-treatment-covid-19-oxford-s-principle-trial

 

Quote

PRINCIPLE is one of UK Government’s national priority platform trials of COVID-19 treatments, and the world’s largest currently taking place in community settings looking for treatments at home.

 

Ivermectin, a widely used antiparasitic drug, has been added to the trial and is being evaluated in participants from today.

 

For COVID-19, ivermectin has shown promising results as a potential treatment in small studies in humans.

 

Anyone eligible and with COVID-19 symptoms can join the trial from anywhere in the UK, either online, over the phone or via their health care professional.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by GeorgeCross

[BestB]

Just now, GeorgeCross said:

 

 

agree & should find out soon

 

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-23-ivermectin-be-investigated-possible-treatment-covid-19-oxford-s-principle-trial

 

 

 

My dogs get it monthly and all Covid free????????

[Susco]

5 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

 

agree & should find out soon

 

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-23-ivermectin-be-investigated-possible-treatment-covid-19-oxford-s-principle-trial

 

 

 

You do notice that this is a TRIAL just started a few days ago, so no results know yet, though other countries trials have shown that ivermectin does NOT work.

 

Glad that the TV virologists already know the results

[GeorgeCross]

 

2 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

You do notice that this is a TRIAL just started a few days ago, so no results know yet, though other countries trials have shown that ivermectin does NOT work.

 

 

yes i do, which is WHY I SAID "should know soon"

 

maybe brush up on your reading skills before throwing out the insults eh?

 

 

[ding]

1 minute ago, Susco said:

 

You do notice that this is a TRIAL just started a few days ago, so no results know yet, though other countries trials have shown that ivermectin does NOT work.

 

Glad that the TV virologists already know the results

There are many RCT's showing IVM is effective, as well as retrospective/epidemiological studies.

Other studies were designed to fail.

The main problem with IVM is that it's off patent, not that it's off-label.