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Foreign retirees arrested for overstay after failing to pay 1 million baht rent on luxury Bangkok condo


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Always worry with articles like this that we see one side of the story and not the other.

Now dont get me wrong. It could very well be that they simply ran out of money for whatever reason and failed to meet their obligations.

Or there may have been a reason they were withholding their rent money.

If its correct that they were living in a condo which had no electricity supply then lets face it. They were hardly living in luxury were they? 

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4 hours ago, zyphodb said:

They haven't bought tickets for 50 odd years, no relatives to get money from with a hugely inflated service charge, they'll just let them rot on the street or in jail...

Yes It was the same in 1985 when I was pick-pocketed in Mexico city. Impossible to contact my family so I had to phone to borrow from parents of a fellow student in the US that I didnt even know! Once the British embassy knew that money was being sent to repay them, they lent me just enough for the cheapest accommodation possible and just enough to eat. I vividly remember someone saying "Here! That should be enough to buy yourself a couple of tacos"! B a s t a r d s !

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1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Owing some rent is merely a civil matter, surely there's come procedure to evict with the backing of the court?

It would seem the procedure the owner has chosen in this situation involved a bump on the head and a hospital visit for the elderly people involved shortly followed by their belongings being discarded in the parking lot.


As said before this story doesn't add up that is why I am sceptical about the whole situation.

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46 minutes ago, desert dueller said:

These two guys - no ladies involved here - had been in Thailand as retirees for over 20 years. They eventually ran out of money and couldn't do the 800k option. The debt to their lessor was around 600k baht, so nowhere near the one million reported. However, they also borrowed extensively from local friends, without paying anything back. They are both Caucasian, and as British as they come. They have since departed.

Source? 

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16 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Always worry with articles like this that we see one side of the story and not the other.

Now dont get me wrong. It could very well be that they simply ran out of money for whatever reason and failed to meet their obligations.

Or there may have been a reason they were withholding their rent money.

I agree, people here are far too fast to condemn their fellow expats this is where we have it all wrong and Thai people have it right the Thai's stick together and help each other out, defend their own people. Meanwhile most expats choose to flame each other before getting any of the facts.

 

I think of it like a kind of crab mentality, as if they feel like they are morally above others and somehow special (or will be if and when they get all the other foreigners leave) and somehow they will be recognised for pandering to the Thai people and honoured deity by the Thai's ???? the one good farrang in Thailand.

 

How do we know what really happened here? I mean for all we know they could have paid cash for a year upfront and the owner decided to kick them out. We just don't know do we?

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1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

This is the thing I dont get. If these people were, for whatever reason, unable to pay their rent why did they not downsize to a rent they could afford?

The article appears scant on detail other than the "Farrang not pay gets thrown out the country good" which plays perfectly into the hands of those who have a certain agenda.

Then the post is buffed with anecdotal stories from landlords (not that they are untrue) who have had bad tenants. But these are hardly relevant to a story in which we have little detail.

Yeh there's something not right in this story:

 

1. Nationalities withheld (this is highly unusual) usually they jump on the chance to shame western countries.

 

2.  Luxury condo block owner in Sathorn only rents to European / Americans

(something about that statement seems very odd)

 

3. The immigration thing being on a 21 day overstay (unusually short overstay to send the boys after them)

 

4. Elderly tenant gets injured at a time when the block owner just happened to be there to take him to the hospital.

 

Seems fishy to the point of anti western propaganda levels.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Yeh there's something not right in this story:

 

1. Nationalities withheld (this is highly unusual) usually they jump on the chance to shame western countries.

 

2.  Luxury condo block owner in Sathorn only rents to European / Americans

(something about that statement seems very odd)

 

3. The immigration thing being on a 21 day overstay (unusually short overstay to send the boys after them)

 

4. Elderly tenant gets injured at a time when the block owner just happened to be there to take him to the hospital.

 

Seems fishy to the point of anti western propaganda levels.

 

 

 

Another thought just occurred to me.

How many Thais or indeed Chinese are defaulting on their obligations?

Are they getting vinyl boards and public humiliation? 

They may be and we simply do not find out about it.

Or perhaps they are are not for some reason.    

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40 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Yeh there's something not right in this story:

 

1. Nationalities withheld (this is highly unusual) usually they jump on the chance to shame western countries.

 

2.  Luxury condo block owner in Sathorn only rents to European / Americans

(something about that statement seems very odd)

 

3. The immigration thing being on a 21 day overstay (unusually short overstay to send the boys after them)

 

4. Elderly tenant gets injured at a time when the block owner just happened to be there to take him to the hospital.

 

Seems fishy to the point of anti western propaganda levels.

As written earlier, they are both British. Also, I have had confirmed that the surnames were Rose and Reid - not Rees.

 

The condo is in the Sathorn area but not on Sathorn. I believe it could have been more downmarket on Suan Plu or Ngamduplee and unlikely to be luxury. Still, no excuse for not paying rent.

 

What makes me curious is (1)  they had sold a large condo nearby only a few years ago, and (2) they had managed to obtain one year visas for many years up to and including May 2020,  but somehow they catastophically ran out of cash in just a few months. After all a one year retirement visa renewal for the two of them is 1.6 million K. And Immigration has to see bankbooks 2 months after renewal. So the cash drain must have started around August 2020. How do you run up such huge debts in such a short space of time?

 

Could they have been hit by the fraudsters who prey on older retirees for big returns on investing their cash?

 

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5 hours ago, My POV said:

I would have shut off the electric and water as soon as they were w months late. I have no pity on anyone cheating out other people.

The water and electricity was cut off some time around November last year. So they were in a sort of living hell for a good six months.

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15 hours ago, Andrew45 said:

Many old geezers like this around. They claim they are old and have no money and people should have sympathy for them. So they don't pay rent and walk out of restaurants with unpaid bills and bitch and whine about everything but in fact are shrewd high level narcissists  with no sense of responsibility and who care nothing about others.

 

Welcome to the forum

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1 hour ago, camo007 said:

I lived in the same building. I know them for over 20 years. Retired in Thailand at least 30+ years ago.

Interesting but your post just makes me have more questions about the original post. It states they retired to Thailand last year "The couple retired to Thailand in March last year and had stamps so they could stay until May 22nd of this year.

 

1 hour ago, camo007 said:

The landlord at Esmerelda Apartments tried to assist and that's why they stayed so long but not knowing how the system worked in the UK could not get the pensions sent to Thailand. The landlord of that building is very good and I think the fact they let them stay while trying to sort things out for them was amazing. 

The post also suggests that the landlord had been reporting them and trying to evict them for a long time so that doesn't add up either. Eventually dumping their belongings in the street.

 

You say he was waiting for them to get their pension but how is a pension going to fund a 50-100k apartment in Sathorn?

 

The more I hear about this story to more questions I have ????

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3 hours ago, camo007 said:

 ...  I want you all to think what would happen to you if you returned here in Thailand and made it to 90 and could not manage your affairs any longer?  ...

My Mom here in the U.S. is approaching 93 years old, so I can well appreciate this.  She did pretty good up to 85 or so.  Mom's in assisted living and her care and lodging is roughly 200,000 Baht per month. 

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18 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

This story simply does not pass the smell test. A few things do not add up. First of all, 100,00 baht a month for a room? Yeah, right. Second, no Thai landlord would let a foreigner stay in their place for almost a year, without paying rent. It would never happen. They would have a multitude of remedies available to them.

 

So, as is often the case, there is far more going on here, than meets the eye.

 

 

 

 

I was paying 50,000 baht a month at Sathorn in 1996/97 for six months.

 

 Back then It was at a place called Park Suanplu, just as you enter the road in Soi Suanplu not far from Immigration ( I never knew that at the time ) and the price was for a one bedroom luxury serviced apartment. It later changed its name to Somerset Place or something but the  high rise property is still there.

 

There were a few in that area of similar price range.

 

However, on your other point, no way would they allow me to rack up debt like that, and I think I paid a deposit of 100K to move in.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Scouse123
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14 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Because it was likely a 20,000 baht a month studio. 

For 20k you can get a nice place 30 floors up at Asoke. It is Covid times.

 

https://www.ddproperty.com/en/property/sukhumvit-suite-1-bedroom-for-rent-สุขุมวิท-สวีท-1-ห้องนอน-ให้เช่า-best521-12498-for-rent-8684157

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13 hours ago, Charlie Halliday said:

Yet more farang giving the rest of us a bad name. As some on this board already pointed out, scum tend to always be scum. 

Yes, but scum is a term I refrain from using with the exception of terrible people.  Certainly not an elderly couple being possibly slandered in an article.   Two long-term x-pats that ran out of money and yes they could have handled it much better if all that was reported is accurate in the article which is usually not the case.  

 

No problem with a label but "scum" seems extremely harsh.  How about desperate? 

 

Is it just me, isn't this a funny picture?  I was never a great presenter but would kill it if this was the topic.

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9 hours ago, camo007 said:

I lived in the same building. I know them for over 20 years. Retired in Thailand at least 30+ years ago. One is around 90 years old and one of the nicest people you would ever meet. Its 2 older gentlemen who fell on hard times in retirement. 

 

Scared of Covid at 90 years old staying at home to survive. They did not know what to do and not the internet type (They cant even use a mobile phone). They sold up everything in the UK to retire in Thailand believing that they would be well taken care of and that they would have enough money to live out the retirement. But with medical expenses and living much longer then expected this must have caused a lot of pressure. The cost to retire in Thailand and exchange rates has changed greatly in the last 30 years and we have seen so many depart Thailand as its become quite expensive. 

 

I saw one of them in Silom walking around Soi 4. I called out his name and he looked at me like he was lost. At that age most likely having "an Elderly moment" and so I sat him down to talk to him. He went back to the restaurant he had just come from and sat down again like he forgot his way home. I went to him and asked him if he was ok and he said he needed help to go home so I arranged my staff to return him home. I was quite worried for them as they are truly lovely people but simply need somebody to care for them and help them work out how to manage. They expected a pension and other funds that did not arrive and they felt they were too old to travel back to the UK to try work it out. 

 

I want you all to think what would happen to you if you returned here in Thailand and made it to 90 and could not manage your affairs any longer? 

 

They had nothing bad to say about Thailand and wanted no harm but did not know what to do. The landlord at Esmerelda Apartments tried to assist and that's why they stayed so long but not knowing how the system worked in the UK could not get the pensions sent to Thailand. The landlord of that building is very good and I think the fact they let them stay while trying to sort things out for them was amazing. 

 

They were arrested and placed in detention on the 27th of may and as far as i know they have still not managed to arrange the flight back to the UK due to the current situation. They must be terrified and not only the detention but the thought of going back to the UK not knowing anybody or if they will survive the trip. In addition its been suggested in there current state its not sure if they are fit to fly and if they will need a companion to assist them. 

 

They are not evil people they are just very old and nobody has helped them in this time of need. If they were in the UK they would have had much more support to arrange care and would not be in this horrible position. Imagine being that age and being locked up and taken out of your home and placed in a Thai Detention center not knowing what was going on. 

 

People ask me if I would retire in Thailand and I have mixed feelings as this is not the place to be if your not able to look after yourself. 

 

198393935_988289171942396_4708067142267734757_n.jpg

Thank you for setting much of the record straight.  You clearly knew them well, whereas my information came second hand, but also from someone who knew them. From what I hear they were very quiet and reserved people. They seemed rarely to drink. One though seemed to have gone to Soi 4 regularly but only to meet a small similarly retired crowd for a drink and companionship. If he had been drunk I expect that came in the last few months as many of us might do if we were in total despair of our future. On the other hand, how could they have had money to buy alcohol? How did they eat? How did they survive in a central Bangkok apartment with no electricity and no water for six months or thereabouts?

 

Your comments, though, have a few slight inaccuracies, according to my friend. Not that it makes much difference, they actually retired here 20 years ago, not 30, after first trying to settle in Singapore which they seemed to know better than Bangkok at the time. As earlier  reported they purchased a large flat in a residential district probably around 1km from the Esmeralda place as the crow flies. That was sold about 5 or 6 years ago.

 

No idea what their rent actually was at Esmeralda but when they moved there they clearly had a cash pile that had to have been in the region of 10-12 million Baht. One or both also had a pension from the UK. Both then had medical insurance policies taken out in England which covered Thailand. Looking at the Esmeralda website, the apartments are certainly large. Most range from 135 sq.m. to 200 sq.m. On the website, the smaller asking rent is 60K Baht. These certainly seem overlarge for 2 men living on small pensions and a limited cash pile. The landlord did take them to court and they were given a month to leave. I was told they had started planning to leave but the separate accommodations finally didn't work out. But also, how on earth could they have afforded the air fares?

 

As I stated earlier, their financial meltdown must have hit them very suddenly. I also think it fair to add, as another poster mentioned, they did start borrowing money from friends on the promise that it would be repaid when the pension payment arrived. I doubt if any were repaid. When you are desperate, as they clearly were, you have to find some way to survive.

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30 minutes ago, Wozzit said:

No idea what their rent actually was at Esmeralda but when they moved there they clearly had a cash pile that had to have been in the region of 10-12 million Baht. One or both also had a pension from the UK. Both then had medical insurance policies taken out in England which covered Thailand. Looking at the Esmeralda website, the apartments are certainly large.

something must have happened to have lost all that money in a few years.
there is cheaper lodging near esmeralda, i rented an old apartment near there it was 90sqm for 13000.
but i think they needed help which they could not get or did not reach out for, or when they did someone drained them. it might not be the case here but i've seen financial abuse of the elderly a few times; and as it happens, in that satorn soi 1 context.

Edited by orchis
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17 hours ago, My POV said:

I would have shut off the electric and water as soon as they were w months late. I have no pity on anyone cheating out other people.

Neither have I, just as long as they haven't tried to cheat me. People can cheat you without breaking any laws, so the only thing open to you is to cheat them back, even if you are breaking laws. Always keep in mind just because something is law, it does not always mean it is right.

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22 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

It's a bad time for everyone, not just landlords.  If you rent out, you're running a business really, and you have to take the good with the bad.  What gets me is that you aren't even effected, but still seem to bemoan people not being evicted.


Well the problem is that in most countries, many, if not most, landlords are private individuals.  
 

I’ve had landlords in the US that were 80+ year old widows that relied on my rent money for their income.  
 

In fact, at least in the US, retirees are huge segment of rental property owners.  
 

They didn’t get into it to run a business in a traditional sense.  They simply thought it was a time-tested way to supplement their pensions.  

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