Vaccination (To be or not to be)

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/28/2021 at 4:22 PM, HarrySeaman said:

As far as I'm concerned those who refuse vaccines for dangerous diseases such as polio, smallpox, COVID-19, or vaccines for their children such as MMR, are idiots because they haven't seen the effects of a terrible disease like polio and have become believers in idiotic conspiracy theories. 

What about those that take all the vaccines EXCEPT for the covid ones?

I know a guy that had a severe reaction to Pfizer jab. I don't know anyone that had a severe reaction to any non covid vaccine.

Edited April 19, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[onthedarkside]

A post with disallowed social media source content has been removed, along with several COVID vaccine misinformation posts.

 

See the following forum rule:

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What about those that take all the vaccines EXCEPT for the covid ones?

I know a guy that had a severe reaction to Pfizer jab. I don't know anyone that had a severe reaction to any non covid vaccine.

You should publish your evidence in The Journal of I Know A Guy Who...

[HarrySeaman]

On 4/20/2022 at 6:11 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

What about those that take all the vaccines EXCEPT for the covid ones?

I know a guy that had a severe reaction to Pfizer jab. I don't know anyone that had a severe reaction to any non covid vaccine.

Allergic reactions to vaccines are common, everyone of them from DPT to the flu.

 

The Salk polio vaccine was a killed virus and nobody got polio from it, but some did have an allergic reaction. 

Things changed when an attenuated polio virus arrived.  It gave better protection but a very small percentage of people with weak immune systems got polio from it.  I would call that a severe reaction to a non Covid-19 vaccine.

[CharlieH]

Off topic bickering removed.

[placeholder]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:28 PM, thailandbeachisland said:

no it seems that the prov lost the war just as the war on drugs is lost ! unvaccinated can be unvax as long as they want, and their life has never changed.

 

Except for the minor fact that they die at a much higher rate from covid than do the vaccinated and suffer more long term consequences. Apart from those quibbles, you make a great point. 

[ozimoron]

On 4/21/2022 at 6:28 PM, HarrySeaman said:

Allergic reactions to vaccines are common, everyone of them from DPT to the flu.

 

The Salk polio vaccine was a killed virus and nobody got polio from it, but some did have an allergic reaction. 

Things changed when an attenuated polio virus arrived.  It gave better protection but a very small percentage of people with weak immune systems got polio from it.  I would call that a severe reaction to a non Covid-19 vaccine.

I have a friend from NZ (now 78) who had the polio vaccine as a kid and spent weeks in a polio hospital partially paralysed. he recovered completely but says he'll never forget the horror of so many kids in iron lungs. Vaccines are a great invention, shame about the unfounded anti vax zealotry.

 

My mum (now 93) actually got polio as a kid. Her grandmother forced marched her in the forests of Victoria for months and she made a full recovery. More recently, she was a bit skeptical of the covid vaccines but I kept reminding her of her experience with polio, she relented and is now fully vaxxed.

Edited April 26, 2022 by ozimoron

[ThaiSmarterThanYou]

can we still get vaccinated or it's too late ?

 

[Puccini]

13 hours ago, ThaiSmarterThanYou said:

can we still get vaccinated or it's too late ?

 

Yes, you can still get vaccinated.

[ThaiSmarterThanYou]

On 5/15/2022 at 4:12 AM, Puccini said:

Yes, you can still get vaccinated.

 

Great ! that's a chance !

 

 

[thailandbeachisland]

On 4/26/2022 at 11:06 PM, placeholder said:

Except for the minor fact that they die at a much higher rate from covid than do the vaccinated and suffer more long term consequences. Apart from those quibbles, you make a great point. 

are you sure, even now when nobody even go to hospital for omicron ? I am asking because you are such an expert !

 

[thailandbeachisland]

On 5/14/2022 at 3:07 PM, ThaiSmarterThanYou said:

can we still get vaccinated or it's too late ?

 

But maybe if you weren't idiot enough to follow the sheeple and didn't get covid or did not die, you should wonder if it's really useful to inject an outdated poison ?

 

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, thailandbeachisland said:

are you sure, even now when nobody even go to hospital for omicron ? I am asking because you are such an expert !

 

Here is the comment of yours that I replied to: 

"no it seems that the prov lost the war just as the war on drugs is lost ! unvaccinated can be unvax as long as they want, and their life has never changed."

Clearly as a general statement this is false.  The unvaxed had a far higher rate of serious illness and deaths. As for the situation now, hospitalizations are way down. That could be a permanent decline, or, in the past, there could be another wave. Cases are beginning to rise again. We'll have to see if hospitalizations follow suit. And of course it isn't true that "nobody even go to hospital for omicron". Just a lot few. At least currently.

[Rimmer]

A misleading troll post and a reply have been removed

[xylophone]

On 4/26/2022 at 11:06 PM, placeholder said:

Except for the minor fact that they die at a much higher rate from covid than do the vaccinated and suffer more long term consequences.

I'm afraid that you are dealing with the "confirmation bias" posters, and those people who will believe anything and are easily led, and no matter what you or the vast majority of the medical profession say, they will always quote something from a far right/anti-VAX publication.

 

Interestingly enough I have saved some articles from a medical journal to which I subscribe, called, "MEDPAGETODAY" (,https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives) and that contains some absolutely horrendous quotes by the anti-VAX brigade, with one claiming that "hundreds of thousands have been killed by mRNA vaccines and many times more have been injured".

 

Another person suggests that the vaccinations have seen "a dramatic spike in aggressive cancers amongst individuals", with absolutely no evidence to back that up, and in all of the quotes in the articles, there is absolutely no evidence to back up these preposterous claims.

 

The author, Russell Blaylock, MD, has links to conspiracy theory blogs and quotes many of them, as well as quoting some physicians infamous for spreading Covid misinformation and being active in political movements, and these include the likes of Joseph Mercola and co.

 

Thankfully there are is some action being taken against this misinformation and a California doctor, Jennings Riley Staley, MD, who prescribed hydroxychloroquine as part of a "Covid treatment kit" that he guaranteed would cure the disease, was last week sentenced to 30 days in prison and a year-long home confinement for this misinformation and in prescribing hydroxychloroquine.

 

I did have a lot of positive information regarding the vaccinations and Covid, but I thought that this anti-VAX argument was just about over, but, sadly, it appears not.

[Rimmer]

A misleading post has been removed

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Covid kills many but by no means close to all infected.

It appears that the death toll from Covid is much higher than previously thought, and I am all for vaccines, having been born in the late forties and brought up when polio was rampant and tuberculosis was around, as well as having many other vaccinations, so I'm with you on the vaccination front, and the following is of interest: –

 

14.9 million excess deaths associated with the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 and 2021
New estimates from the World Health Organization (WHO) show that the full death toll associated directly or indirectly with the COVID-19 pandemic (described as “excess mortality”) between 1 January 2020 and 31 December 2021 was approximately 14.9 million (range 13.3 million to 16.6 million).  

https://www.who.int/news/item/05-05-2022-14.9-million-excess-deaths-were-associated-with-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-2020-and-2021
 

[papa al]

papa is old, 73.

& obese.

Very afraid of the mRNA stuff.

Had covid twice,

last July and in January.

Both times, took Ivermectin at first symptoms and

quickly cleared up.

Conformation bias, I guess ...

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, papa al said:

Conformation bias, I guess

Absolutely, because in a myriad of controlled scientific/medical studies, ivermectin has been shown to be ineffective against Covid 19.

 

But then again you will always find someone championing this antiparasitic drug because they want to believe in it, and don't want to be vaccinated for whatever reason.

 

Pleased that you recovered anyway.

 

PS. You recovered because your immune system was able to fight off the virus and you could have had a mild version. Confirmation bias is when one looks for reasons to find and believe that ivermectin works........when studies show that is doesn't.

Edited June 6, 2022 by xylophone

[onthedarkside]

An off-topic post and reply have been removed.

 

[JetsetBkk]

19 hours ago, xylophone said:

It appears that the death toll from Covid is much higher than previously thought, and I am all for vaccines, having been born in the late forties and brought up when polio was rampant and tuberculosis was around, as well as having many other vaccinations, so I'm with you on the vaccination front, and the following is of interest: –

 

14.9 million excess deaths associated with the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 and 2021
New estimates from the World Health Organization (WHO) show that the full death toll associated directly or indirectly with the COVID-19 pandemic (described as “excess mortality”) between 1 January 2020 and 31 December 2021 was approximately 14.9 million (range 13.3 million to 16.6 million).  

https://www.who.int/news/item/05-05-2022-14.9-million-excess-deaths-were-associated-with-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-2020-and-2021
 

From your post:

"It appears that the death toll from Covid is much higher than previously thought"

 

From your link:

"Excess mortality includes deaths associated with COVID-19 directly (due to the disease) or indirectly (due to the pandemic’s impact on health systems and society). Deaths linked indirectly to COVID-19 are attributable to other health conditions for which people were unable to access prevention and treatment because health systems were overburdened by the pandemic."

 

So your post should read:

"It appears that the death toll from the pandemic is much higher than previously thought".

 

[g man]

On Friday June 17, the journal Andrology published a peer-reviewed paper showing large decreases in sperm counts among men after the second dose of Pfizer’s mRNA Covid jab.

Based on counts from men who donated sperm to three fertility clinics in Israel, this finding is devastating - medically and politically.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/andr.13209

Be informed at all times.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-fertility-idUSL1N2T01TQ

 

[g man]

After reviewing the attached report, maybe you can make a more informed decision about taking the mRNA injection.

 

Summary key points:

mRNA Covid vaccines offer essentially no defense against Omicron only months after a booster shot, according to a major new study from British researchers.

 

Both antibody and T-cell protection are nearly non-existent,  according to what the British researchers discovered.

In an even more worrisome development, when vaccinated but previously uninfected people suffer breakthrough Omicron infections, their T-cell response is biased toward earlier versions of Sars-Cov-2 - not to the Omicron variant that has actually infected them.

In other words, the mRNA shots appear to permanently wrongfoot the immune systems of people who receive and bias them toward producing T-cells to attack variants that no longer exist - even though they never were infected with those variants at all.

 

 

https://www.science.org/doi/epdf/10.1126/science.abq1841

science.abq1841.pdf

[partington]

34 minutes ago, g man said:

On Friday June 17, the journal Andrology published a peer-reviewed paper showing large decreases in sperm counts among men after the second dose of Pfizer’s mRNA Covid jab.

Based on counts from men who donated sperm to three fertility clinics in Israel, this finding is devastating - medically and politically.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/andr.13209

Be informed at all times.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-fertility-idUSL1N2T01TQ

 

It's not remotely devastating in any way, because it was only 15% and disappeared within three months in everyone studied.

 

There is no estimate of how a 15% reduction in sperm number would even affect fertility, if at all.

 

[partington]

27 minutes ago, g man said:

After reviewing the attached report, maybe you can make a more informed decision about taking the mRNA injection.

 

Summary key points:

mRNA Covid vaccines offer essentially no defense against Omicron only months after a booster shot, according to a major new study from British researchers.

 

Both antibody and T-cell protection are nearly non-existent,  according to what the British researchers discovered.

In an even more worrisome development, when vaccinated but previously uninfected people suffer breakthrough Omicron infections, their T-cell response is biased toward earlier versions of Sars-Cov-2 - not to the Omicron variant that has actually infected them.

In other words, the mRNA shots appear to permanently wrongfoot the immune systems of people who receive and bias them toward producing T-cells to attack variants that no longer exist - even though they never were infected with those variants at all.

 

 

https://www.science.org/doi/epdf/10.1126/science.abq1841

science.abq1841.pdfUnavailable

Despite the disappointing ability of the Omicron variant to evade immunity resulting from pre-infection by the original variants, and by vaccination against the alpha variant, this paper repeats, and gives references to, the factual observation that vaccination continues to show significant efficacy against symptomatic disease.

 

It is therefore still both valuable and sensible to be vaccinated even in the age of Omicron!

 

Direct quote from paper cited:

 

"The case for vaccine-mediated immune preconditioning as key mediator of the attenu-ated phenotype is complex: while functional neutralization by vaccine-primed sera is considerably blunted against B.1.1.529 (Omicron), three-dose vaccination efficacy against symptomatic disease holds up, in the 50-70% range (6–8)

 

Here are the reference so you can confirm this:

 

 

6. S. Collie, J. Champion, H. Moultrie, L.-G. Bekker, G. Gray, Effectiveness of BNT162b2 vaccine against omicron variant in South Africa. N. Engl. J. Med.386, 494–496(2022). doi:10.1056/NEJMc2119270 Medline

 

7. H. F. Tseng, B. K. Ackerson, Y. Luo, L. S. Sy, C. A. Talarico, Y. Tian, K. J. Bruxvoort, J. E. Tubert, A. Florea, J. H. Ku, G. S. Lee, S. K. Choi, H. S. Takhar, M. Aragones, L. Qian, Effectiveness of mRNA-1273 against SARS-CoV-2 Omicron and Delta variants. Nat. Med.28, 1063–1071 (2022). doi:10.1038/s41591-022-01753-yMedline 

 

8. N. Andrews, J. Stowe, F. Kirsebom, S. Toffa, T. Rickeard, E. Gallagher, C. Gower, M.Kall, N. Groves, A. M. O’Connell, D. Simons, P. B. Blomquist, A. Zaidi, S. Nash, N.Iwani Binti Abdul Aziz, S. Thelwall, G. Dabrera, R. Myers, G. Amirthalingam, S. Gharbia, J. C. Barrett, R. Elson, S. N. Ladhani, N. Ferguson, M. Zambon, C. N. J.Campbell, K. Brown, S. Hopkins, M. Chand, M. Ramsay, J. Lopez Bernal, Covid-19 vaccine effectiveness against the omicron (B.1.1.529) variant. N. Engl. J. Med.386, 1532–1546 ( 2022). doi:10.1056/NEJMoa2119451 Medline while <deleted>nctional neutralization by vaccine-primed sera is considerably blunted against B.1.1.529 (Omicron), three-dose vaccination efficacy against symptomatic disease holds up, in the 50-70% range (6–8).

[Danderman123]

On 5/24/2022 at 7:01 PM, thailandbeachisland said:

But maybe if you weren't idiot enough to follow the sheeple and didn't get covid or did not die, you should wonder if it's really useful to inject an outdated poison ?

 

You seem to be longing for a Herman Cain award. 

 

Even today, unvaccinated people die from Covid. 

[Danderman123]

On 6/5/2022 at 9:42 PM, papa al said:

papa is old, 73.

& obese.

Very afraid of the mRNA stuff.

Had covid twice,

last July and in January.

Both times, took Ivermectin at first symptoms and

quickly cleared up.

Conformation bias, I guess ...

Luck. 

 

Ivermectin has no benefit in fighting Covid. 

[papa al]

On 6/6/2022 at 9:53 AM, xylophone said:

Absolutely, because in a myriad of controlled scientific/medical studies, ivermectin has been shown to be ineffective against Covid 19.

 

But then again you will always find someone championing this antiparasitic drug because they want to believe in it, and don't want to be vaccinated for whatever reason.

 

Pleased that you recovered anyway.

 

PS. You recovered because your immune system was able to fight off the virus and you could have had a mild version. Confirmation bias is when one looks for reasons to find and believe that ivermectin works........when studies show that is doesn't.

You seem to be unaware of the myriad of studies attesting to the effectiveness go Iver vs C19.

 

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post and replies has been removed

[thailandbeachisland]

Hi guys ? anybody doing yearly vaxx ?