Pattaya: Dead as a Dodo

[morrobay]

18 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wasn't aware they are redoing the promenade.

IMO the big trees were the best part of the old promenade. They provided shade for people to sit on the benches and it was always a pleasant place to while away some time. I used to get a sandwich from 7 11 and have my lunch while people watching.

Unfortunately the trees were massacred.

Indeed but the promenade/ widening beach road remake way back 2013 was for accommodating tour buses and staging area for Chinese speedboat tours to Ko larn. Not a pleasant place at all, especially with these lowlife local males on motorbikes. The total atmosphere along the beach is a horror show. The Bookazines and in/outside cafes have been replaced with fast food. And the Europeans have been replaced by the oblivious chinese and Indians. Even the more sophisticated Thais have complained. The only way they can get any numbers back is with the casino last card. Sure if your on the 20th floor in some 4-5 * in South Naklua / North Pattaya at night it could be Monte Carlo. As one forum member brings up over and over again. So while true, high end travelers like to stroll along the water front in evenings for dining and shopping taking in a nice foreign atmosphere. Well ya all best stay in Monte Carlo.

 

 

 

[rott]

When people return to Beach Road and create some activity and life, the rats might take off for somewhere else and the place wil get even better. 

[morrobay]

Wouldn't bet the farm on that.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:02 PM, rott said:

One very good point there, Pattaya in my view has always had too many bars. I have to wonder at these people who take over a moribund business and assume it will suddenly become viable. 

Hope triumphing over reality.

 

Some prospective bar owners apparently think they'll get sex on demand if they buy a bar. I knew one like that.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:06 PM, rott said:

Bit late for that unfortunately. No I don't but it is here and the old ways are unlikely to return. 

And this "we" bit, I thought you'd gone a while ago. How much time do you spend here now.?

Doesn't matter where I live. I have a desire for Pattaya to be like it was before the Russians arrived. It was as good as it gets back then.

I hope to return to Thailand one day, though the corona may have destroyed that dream.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, newnative said:

      Of your list, I think only Soi 6 might be endangered at some point.  It is inconveniently close to a lot of both empty land and large tracts that are slated for redevelopment.  The north Pattaya Beach area has really undergone a transformation in the past few years and that is likely to continue south towards Central Festival.  Discovery Beach Hotel is about to finish a new, large highrise third wing; a sign of that expansion, improvement, and development.   

That's evidence of knowledge of things most of us don't know. If they build them, there is nothing on offer to attract enough tourists to fill them, short of casinos becoming legal, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, morrobay said:

And Pattalands in better days. And the girls too. Take a zoom up of the girl in black boots

Happier days before the girls got fat. Also no mobile phones, excellent. Up to me mobiles would be banned for BGs while working. Then they might try harder to be nice to customers.

[BigStar]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:20 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I've said before that a couple of the malls built in Pattaya should have been in Jomtien instead.

Good thing you did. That's exactly why Central Festival was built in Pattaya. Regular readers of the forum, as Central Pattana certainly must be, know that the pronouncements of ANF Economists and Doomsters are excellent inverse indicators. So, instead of creating another ruin such as this in Jomtien:

 

 

http://goo.gl/maps/H9Fw7

 

they've reaped profits for more than a decade with this:

 

 

On 8/12/2021 at 11:20 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I like good malls, but they could have stopped with the Mike, Big C and the Royal Garden malls.

So the rules of ANF Poster Economics such as Fixed Pie (fundamental principle), Only One Needed, Got One Already, Only Farangs Have Money, Looking Not Buying, Just Selling Free Aircon, etc. would dictate.

 

But then, after learning of Central Pattana's successful method of forecasting, LHMH took heed and developed T21, which has revitalized the whole N. Pattaya area.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

 

 

[rott]

40 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Doesn't matter where I live. I have a desire for Pattaya to be like it was before the Russians arrived. It was as good as it gets back then.

I hope to return to Thailand one day, though the corona may have destroyed that dream.

I did not ask where you live TBL, up to you. 

[BigStar]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:25 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

It wasn't pre corona, if one could compare to when it actually was popular with farangs in the 90s.

Let's do compare.

 

Here's Pattaya in 1995 at the zenith of the prosperity conferred by the benevolent Golden Egg Layers (GEL), showering free Golden Eggs on all the poor grateful Thais:

 

 

See that incredible wealth? Beer bars crowded at all hours every day. Thais had everything then. Just a couple of satang flipped their way meant smiles all the time and fitting servility. Barked orders were instantly obeyed.

 

Then, DISASTER. It's terribly embarrassing and never spoken of, but fact is them Golden Egg Layers staying in fleabag hotels on Soi Buakhao ran out o' golden eggs. The GBPeso sank etc. 

 

Golden Egg Layer straining out a last one

 

They were forced to head for the exits by thuggery, scams, pollution, corruption, and the INSANE xenophobic rise in the pittance visa fees in 2003.

 

All the Thais once basking in the beneficence left to go work in rice fields!

 

As a result, after the Golden Egg Layers mostly departed except for a few who only feel alive when bashing Pattaya, we now have only these bleached ruins left:

 

 

Now that may look like an economy, oh, 5 times wealthier with large shopping malls, large discount stores, expensive hotels, luxury condo buildings, and thousands more Thais employed in actual jobs.

 

But don't be fooled: shrewd posters know it's merely a Potemkin village. No shopper has ever been seen any o' them fake malls. All the indicators of TVF Econometrics have LONG been flashing doom: the lights-on-at-night count, the red-plates-on-cars count, the lines-at-the-bank count, and the shopping bag count.

 

On 8/12/2021 at 11:25 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

It may have had a lot of package tourists from China, but they didn't spread the wealth.

Yeah. I don't see any wealth there now at all, do you?

Edited August 13, 2021 by BigStar

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Let's do compare.

 

Here's Pattaya in 1995 at the zenith of the prosperity conferred by the benevolent Golden Egg Layers (GEL), showering free Golden Eggs on all the poor grateful Thais:

 

 

See that incredible wealth? Beer bars crowded at all hours every day. Thais had everything then. Just a couple of satang flipped their way meant smiles all the time and fitting servility. Barked orders were instantly obeyed.

 

Then, DISASTER. It's terribly embarrassing and never spoken of, but fact is them Golden Egg Layers staying in fleabag hotels on Soi Buakhao ran out o' golden eggs. The GBPeso sank etc. 

 

Golden Egg Layer straining out a last one

 

They were forced to head for the exits by thuggery, scams, pollution, corruption, and the INSANE xenophobic rise in the pittance visa fees in 2003.

 

All the Thais once basking in the beneficence left to go work in rice fields!

 

As a result, after the Golden Egg Layers mostly departed except for a few who only feel alive when bashing Pattaya, we now have only these bleached ruins left:

 

 

Now that may look like an economy, oh, 5 times wealthier with large shopping malls, large discount stores, expensive hotels, luxury condo buildings, and thousands more Thais employed in actual jobs.

 

But don't be fooled: shrewd posters know it's merely a Potemkin village. No shopper has ever been seen any o' them fake malls. All the indicators of TVF Econometrics have LONG been flashing doom: the lights-on-at-night count, the red-plates-on-cars count, the lines-at-the-bank count, and the shopping bag count.

 

Exactly. I don't see any wealth there now at all, do you?

You really are a funny guy! Keep the stories coming, as I need cheering up.

Edited August 13, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[newnative]

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's evidence of knowledge of things most of us don't know. If they build them, there is nothing on offer to attract enough tourists to fill them, short of casinos becoming legal, IMO.

     Yes, you keep saying that.  'There is nothing on offer to attract enough tourists to fill them...'.   Yet, over 9 million visited in 2019, according to Mastercard.  Probably key in your post: 'IMO'.  

[BigStar]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:45 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

That, IMO, isn't the real question. Did Pattaya ever need to transit to the mythical "family destination" that was going to bring billions to certain pockets?

That's the real question that will answer the poster's puzzlement.

 

What you have there is merely a non-question illustrating the fallacy of reification so that you may pontificate. There's no mythical entity known as Pattaya determining its needs and attempting to achieve them. Ergo, you can't either. So, hot air.

 

What exists are individual business people, or groups, finding underserved markets and developing ways to profit by meeting the wants and needs of those markets.

 

On 8/12/2021 at 11:45 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

There are miles of almost deserted beaches along the Gulf coast south of Chumpon that could have had modern resort towns built from scratch.

Why, when for a fraction of the cost you can tweak an existing economy near BKK and the major int'l airport with a high probability of success?

 

Would make no sense of course. How's your money management coming along?

 

On 8/12/2021 at 11:45 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Obviously, almost everything built since the previous beach promenade was destroyed has turned to <deleted>

Yet 9.4 million tourists were coming anyway. Maybe if stuff got fixed better, then we could have another 5 or so!

[BigStar]

On 8/12/2021 at 12:49 PM, redwood1 said:

Here are some drawings of the new promenade.....It looks like ALL  as in every last shade tree will be chopped.......What little vib that remains will be finished....

We had numerous posters last time soiling their knickers over some drawings and making countless nonsensical claims. One old Doomster claimed that the beach hotels would thereafter be deserted, etc. In fact more tourists walked on and enjoyed the new promenade than ever used the old one.

 

It has sufficient shade--the palm trees did grow out, shockingly--and seating in the north end. No seating in the south end owing to the old being taken up by vile mongers drinking beer from 7/11s as they negotiated with and fondled hookers.

 

I liked the old one better, too, but time marches on. More tourists, a greater population, the need for less congestion and more safety during festivals motivated the redevelopment. It's surprising how jams arise whenever one of the lanes is closed now.

 

Wait and see.

[redwood1]

9 minutes ago, BigStar said:

That's the real question that will answer the poster's puzzlement.

 

What you have there is merely a non-question illustrating the fallacy of reification so that you may pontificate. There's no mythical entity known as Pattaya determining its needs and attempting to achieve them. Ergo, you can't either. So, hot air.

 

What exists are individual business people, or groups, finding underserved markets and developing ways to profit by meeting the wants and needs of those markets.

 

Why, when for a fraction of the cost you can tweak an existing economy near BKK and the major int'l airport with a high probability of success?

 

Would make no sense of course. How's your money management coming along?

 

Yet 9.4 million tourists were coming anyway. Maybe if stuff got fixed better, then we could have another 5 or so!

Sir let me make this simple, we just need to get rid of the Chinese,Russians,Indians, Japanese, and Koreans, get the girls to beg to go LT for 500 baht like the old days..... Train the girls to wipe our faces again with a cold wipe when we sit down in a bar like they use to do, and worship farang like they use to do.........And Pattaya will be great again.........

[Leaver]

On 8/10/2021 at 5:08 AM, soi3eddie said:

Probably many millions or even billions of "incentives" might be large enough ???? 

 

Correct. 

 

With a stroke of a pen in the corridors of power in Bangkok, many of the wealthy Thai elite would become obscenely rich.   

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Correct. 

 

With a stroke of a pen in the corridors of power in Bangkok, many of the wealthy Thai elite would become obscenely rich.   

Yawn.

People (mostly bores on here) have been being saying this for years.  And yet it has never happened.  If it was so easy for "the elite" to make billions from legal casinos, why has it never happened?  Why is there no sign of it ever happening?

But keep the predictable drivel going.

 

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Yawn.

People (mostly bores on here) have been being saying this for years.  And yet it has never happened.  If it was so easy for "the elite" to make billions from legal casinos, why has it never happened?  Why is there no sign of it ever happening?

But keep the predictable drivel going.

 

 

Hint:  Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, yet the Thai elite earn billions from it.  ????

 

Yes, we have known this for years, yet, it flourishes in Pattaya.  (pre covid)  

 

Human nature.  Nothing is ever enough.  Casinos are inevitable.  

 

The argument of social harm to Thai's is a moot point, should Thai's not be allowed in to gamble. 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Leaver

[Rimmer]

Troll post and reply removed

[BigStar]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

Hint:  Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, yet the Thai elite earn billions from it.

True premise, wrong conclusion. The narrow definition of prostitution under Thai law isn't the same as that understood by, and adamantly insisted upon, by our barstool lawyers applying the usual home country legal definition.

 

So, when police report finding no evidence of prostitution, they're technically correct, to peals of fatuous laughter here. Billions are made from the sex industry, yes, and it's mostly legal. Sorry to burst that little balloon, but it'll be quickly forgotten or ignored. Not to say the police extortion isn't applied even to legal activities. All our posters know that. ????

 

Knowledgeable posters have issued this correction over the years but by now have given up or can't be a.r.sed. Rebuttals will always quote the old law, which was superseded.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by BigStar

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

True premise, wrong conclusion. The narrow definition of prostitution under Thai law isn't the same as that understood by, and adamantly insisted upon, by our barstool lawyers applying the usual home country legal definition.

 

So, when police report finding no evidence of prostitution, they're technically correct, to peals of fatuous laughter here. Billions are made from the sex industry, yes, and it's mostly legal. Sorry to burst that little balloon, but it'll be quickly forgotten or ignored. Not to say the police extortion isn't applied even to legal activities. All our posters know that. ????

 

Knowledgeable posters have issued this correction over the years but by now have given up or can't be a.r.sed. Rebuttals will always quote the old law, which was superseded.

 

 

Ah, yes, that grey area that Thai law likes to work in, which basically makes Thailand lawless, if you pay the right people.  

 

I suppose "tea money" is "technically" not corruption as well, because, after all, who doesn't like to drink tea, and it's only a "donation."  ????

 

Knowledge of Thai law means very when there is a corrupt system, and a culture of corruption, where one can pay to circumvent it.  

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Ah, yes, that grey area that Thai law likes to work in, which basically makes Thailand lawless, if you pay the right people.  

 

I suppose "tea money" is "technically" not corruption as well, because, after all, who doesn't like to drink tea, and it's only a "donation."  ????

 

Knowledge of Thai law means very when there is a corrupt system, and a culture of corruption, where one can pay to circumvent it.  

But it appears few are able to pay to circumvent it, as almost all go to some lengths and expense to comply with the legal definition--contrary to ignorant opinions such as your own here. Enforcement really tightened up in the past two decades, too. That's one reason things aren't nearly as convenient as they once were for our mongers.

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

But it appears few are able to pay to circumvent it, as almost all go to some lengths and expense to comply with the legal definition--contrary to ignorant opinions such as your own here. Enforcement really tightened up in the past two decades, too. That's one reason things aren't nearly as convenient as they once were for our mongers.

If only these ladies knew Thai law as you seem to think you do.  ????

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Leaver

[BigStar]

14 hours ago, Leaver said:

If only these ladies knew Thai law as you seem to think you do.  ????

 

 

 

Rather proves my point, thank you, and further illustrates your own lack of knowledge.

 

As an aside, note that none will be convicted after arrest. And what you almost never see, incredibly in view of the huge and obvious scene, is any bars or girls while working in the bars busted, and convicted, on a simple prostitution charge. WOT??? Where's the xenophobia? That's 'cause they're basically following the law.

 

Note the contrast with frequent drugs and gambling busts, both notably hidden from sight. There's law against drugs and gambling but none forbidding trading sex for money. (Which would turn many of our married members into common criminals, horrors! ????) You may define it as prostitution all day, but Thai law doesn't. Oh--corruption also does exist! Nobody knew that. Hence this fatuous "hint"

 

Hint:  Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, yet the Thai elite earn billions from it.

 

Remains false. It just ain't gonna become true no matter how much smoke you wish to blow and little emojis pasted. Such nonsense does play well with our peanut gallery and trollerariat of course, contributing to further page views, so feel free to continue repeating it. Are we done wasting time?

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by BigStar

[Bruno123]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

Rather proves my point, thank you, and further illustrates your own lack of knowledge.

 

As an aside, note that none will be convicted after arrest. And what you almost never see, incredibly in view of the huge and obvious scene, is any bars or girls while working in the bars busted, and convicted, on a simple prostitution charge. WOT??? Where's the xenophobia? That's 'cause they're basically following the law.

 

Note the contrast with frequent drugs and gambling busts, both notably hidden from sight. There's law against drugs and gambling but none forbidding trading sex for money. (Which would turn many of our married members into common criminals, horrors! ????) You may define it as prostitution all day, but Thai law doesn't. Oh--corruption also does exist! Nobody knew that. Hence this fatuous "hint"

 

Hint:  Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, yet the Thai elite earn billions from it.

 

Remains false. It just ain't gonna become true no matter how much smoke you wish to blow and little emojis pasted. Such nonsense does play well with our peanut gallery and trollerariat of course, contributing to further page views, so feel free to continue repeating it. Are we done wasting time?

 

A lot of words, but you are wrong about the ability to circumvent. I had a conversation with someone involved with these very matters recently; together with a price list. Not something that involved me, but it was an interesting conversation nonetheless. That's all I will say on the subject. 

You are welcome to reply in your usual unpleasant style, but it might be worth you knowing that you are already on Ignore. I only saw your post because it was quoted by someone else.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Bruno123

[Sudarut]

On 7/22/2021 at 7:47 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

racist?

Now there's a word I haven't heard for about 3 minutes. 

[HashBrownHarry]

On 8/13/2021 at 4:18 PM, Leaver said:

 

Hint:  Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, yet the Thai elite earn billions from it.  ????

 

Yes, we have known this for years, yet, it flourishes in Pattaya.  (pre covid)  

 

Human nature.  Nothing is ever enough.  Casinos are inevitable.  

 

The argument of social harm to Thai's is a moot point, should Thai's not be allowed in to gamble. 

 

If i could be bothered ( which i can't ) we could go back and see how long you've been bleating on about casino's coming, can you tell me how many there are pls?

 

Thanks.

Edited August 15, 2021 by HashBrownHarry

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/13/2021 at 8:45 PM, newnative said:

     Yes, you keep saying that.  'There is nothing on offer to attract enough tourists to fill them...'.   Yet, over 9 million visited in 2019, according to Mastercard.  Probably key in your post: 'IMO'.  

and how many visited for the nightlife?

The point I was making was that without the nightlife there isn't much to attract tourists.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/13/2021 at 9:15 PM, BigStar said:

the need for less congestion and more safety during festivals motivated the redevelopment.

Cities run by competent leaders don't close busy roads to have festivals, they have dedicated areas for them.

However, IMO, competence has never been a description given to Pattaya's "leaders".

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/13/2021 at 9:15 PM, redwood1 said:

Sir let me make this simple, we just need to get rid of the Chinese,Russians,Indians, Japanese, and Koreans, get the girls to beg to go LT for 500 baht like the old days..... Train the girls to wipe our faces again with a cold wipe when we sit down in a bar like they use to do, and worship farang like they use to do.........And Pattaya will be great again.........

Well, it really was great back then, something that hasn't been ascribed to Pattaya for a very long time.