Pattaya: Dead as a Dodo

[BigStar]

52 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Cities run by competent leaders don't close busy roads to have festivals, they have dedicated areas for them.

In Jomtien, right? Oh, they might very well close a busy road. Street festivals are common throughout the world.

 

But then it must have been illustrative of our leaders' outstanding competence that they didn't in fact close busy roads at all! ????

 

That was the point. Sometimes, it's hard to understand the mind of the consumer.

 

Lot of markets around selling a lot of that same cheap stuff already, if not here then in BKK. But tourists, including domestic tourists, are coming to Beach Rd., partly attracted by the mall, and it turns out they like walking around visiting all those booths right there by the beach on THE main road that defines Pattaya. Those festivals were attracting specialty vendors (such as they are) and surprisingly good money.

 

'Course, now, we don't want anyone killed, now do we? Better give 'em a little more space and improve the traffic flow at all times, not just during the festivals.

 

[Solinvictus]

On 7/23/2021 at 6:10 AM, gk10012001 said:

A definite possibility.  Casinos will be inevitable in Thailand.  They can't resist the money opportunties

I really wish Casinos were around here. So much fun! Only losers don't appreciate them! ????????

[rott]

On 8/13/2021 at 3:07 PM, BigStar said:

Let's do compare.

 

Here's Pattaya in 1995 at the zenith of the prosperity conferred by the benevolent Golden Egg Layers (GEL), showering free Golden Eggs on all the poor grateful Thais:

 

 

See that incredible wealth? Beer bars crowded at all hours every day. Thais had everything then. Just a couple of satang flipped their way meant smiles all the time and fitting servility. Barked orders were instantly obeyed.

 

Then, DISASTER. It's terribly embarrassing and never spoken of, but fact is them Golden Egg Layers staying in fleabag hotels on Soi Buakhao ran out o' golden eggs. The GBPeso sank etc. 

 

Golden Egg Layer straining out a last one

 

They were forced to head for the exits by thuggery, scams, pollution, corruption, and the INSANE xenophobic rise in the pittance visa fees in 2003.

 

All the Thais once basking in the beneficence left to go work in rice fields!

 

As a result, after the Golden Egg Layers mostly departed except for a few who only feel alive when bashing Pattaya, we now have only these bleached ruins left:

 

 

Now that may look like an economy, oh, 5 times wealthier with large shopping malls, large discount stores, expensive hotels, luxury condo buildings, and thousands more Thais employed in actual jobs.

 

But don't be fooled: shrewd posters know it's merely a Potemkin village. No shopper has ever been seen any o' them fake malls. All the indicators of TVF Econometrics have LONG been flashing doom: the lights-on-at-night count, the red-plates-on-cars count, the lines-at-the-bank count, and the shopping bag count.

 

Yeah. I don't see any wealth there now at all, do you?

There was no or very little cheapo accommodation in Buakhao in 2003. And the USD started tanking before sterling. 

All this exaggerated nastiness and nonsense you sling at UK people applies equally to all westerners, and just makes you look like another chip-on-the-shoulder racist loser. 

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, BigStar said:

And what you almost never see, incredibly in view of the huge and obvious scene, is any bars or girls while working in the bars busted, and convicted, on a simple prostitution charge.

 

That's called, corruption.  It doesn't mean the crime is not being committed.  

 

6 hours ago, BigStar said:

There's law against drugs and gambling but none forbidding trading sex for money.

 

Wrong.

 

6 hours ago, BigStar said:

You may define it as prostitution all day, but Thai law doesn't.

 

Yes, it does.  

 

6 hours ago, BigStar said:

It just ain't gonna become true no matter how much smoke you wish to blow and little emojis pasted.

 

I disagree.  Only a matter of time.

 

 

[Leaver]

7 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

If i could be bothered ( which i can't ) we could go back and see how long you've been bleating on about casino's coming, can you tell me how many there are pls?

 

Thanks.

 

There are many illegal casinos.  Only a matter of time before legal casinos go ahead.  I'm not suggesting it will be next week,  but it will happen.  

[spidermike007]

Tourism will return. At 15% of its former levels, within 5 years. A dozen good reasons for that prediction.

 

Chief among them is the stunning amount of selective and constant sabotage inflicted upon the industry by the incapables.

[HashBrownHarry]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

There are many illegal casinos.  Only a matter of time before legal casinos go ahead.  I'm not suggesting it will be next week,  but it will happen.  

So you keep saying....

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

So you keep saying....

With the tourism industry wrecked, IMO for the short term at least and possibly for the mid term, the people that got rich off of it will need something to keep them in the style to which they were accustomed. Given that money is number one in LOS, casinos are IMO seen as the next cash cow to milk.

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and how many visited for the nightlife?

The point I was making was that without the nightlife there isn't much to attract tourists.

I knew plenty who came to enjoy Phuket, it is quite scenic, plenty of restaurants, climate, beaches, nightlife etc.. and  cheaper than home, but Pattaya is a different beast. They come for the full package, booze, birds, beach and food. 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, jacko45k said:

I knew plenty who came to enjoy Phuket, it is quite scenic, plenty of restaurants, climate, beaches, nightlife etc.. and  cheaper than home, but Pattaya is a different beast. They come for the full package, booze, birds, beach and food. 

If the night life didn't exist, I doubt any western tourist would visit for Pattaya beach. Plenty of far better beaches in LOS and most have girls available.

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If the night life didn't exist, I doubt any western tourist would visit for Pattaya beach. Plenty of far better beaches in LOS and most have girls available.

Well I suppose that is why Dammam in Saudi Arabia never took off, quite reasonable beach! I think we can subdivide the term nightlife for Pattaya, it handles a well differing couple of styles, the music and dancing bars, the men in frocks prancing about waving their arms about entertainment, a guy tinkling the ivories in a fancy hotel lounge...etc. Then the girls dancing and offering it all scene as red-light and obvious as can be... with a little overlap. A person, or couple, could avoid the latter... or even dip their toes and not partake. 

Pattaya could well cater to regular tourists... depends on how the brochure presented it. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by jacko45k

[HashBrownHarry]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

With the tourism industry wrecked, IMO for the short term at least and possibly for the mid term, the people that got rich off of it will need something to keep them in the style to which they were accustomed. Given that money is number one in LOS, casinos are IMO seen as the next cash cow to milk.

no chance, been hearing it for 20 years...

[BigStar]

16 hours ago, Leaver said:

That's called, corruption.  It doesn't mean the crime is not being committed.  

SHOCK!  But illogical conclusion, of course. Crime, yes, perpetrated by the corrupt.

 

It's less expensive to cooperate in the corruption than fight it. On the other hand, if the bars don't comply with the law, pretty much, they'll be shut down. So mongers are finding things so much less convenient and more expensive than they used to be, though compliance isn't the only reason.

 

It actually takes some slight effort under Thai law to prove prostitution without entrapment. Very possible, of course, but hardly worth it for the BIB, as the mere act of selling sex for money isn't defined as such and isn't illegal. Enforcement, such as it is, is designed so that sex can be sold, legally, without obvious evidence of actual prostitution--under Thai law. Very Thai.

 

That is, what our farangs think of as "prostitution" is in fact condoned. So convenient. Which blows your little narrative but as I noted, do keep repeating it. Plays well.???? 

 

Normally, our members understand this perfectly, as they do the same all the time when they pay off the cops in traffic stop scams. Or so they claim; personally I've never been scammed by traffic cops or Immigration. Life just ain't fair, is it? Now I did pay too much for veggies once at a local market, but to a very charming lady.

 

<Mindless repetition and assertions lacking evidence to get the last word snipped>

 

 

[BigStar]

17 hours ago, rott said:

There was no or very little cheapo accommodation in Buakhao in 2003.

Quite enough for the nightlife of the time when Pattaya was much smaller when you include all the other cheapo accommodation. Few mongers were staying at the Dusit.???? Hence one our most distinguished Economists prophesied that Central Festival would bankrupt because those fools were charging Bangkok prices. It was a town of cheapo tourists seeking cheap accomodation, cheap sex, cheap beer, and cheap baked beans on toast.

 

17 hours ago, rott said:

And the USD started tanking before sterling. 

That, but you see only a relatively small percentage of mongers were Americans.

Edited August 16, 2021 by BigStar

[rott]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

. So mongers are finding things so much less convenient and more expensive than they used to be, 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not necessarily, lady prices vary and are generally subject to negotiation especially now. 

 

And beer prices, a number of bars are selling drink at up-country prices that is 70 and even 60 for a 620 ml bottle. Pre Covid prices, not current discount rates. 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

no chance, been hearing it for 20 years...

Economy wasn't being destroyed like now any time in last 20 years.

[HashBrownHarry]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Economy wasn't being destroyed like now any time in last 20 years.

2008?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

2008?

I was there then and no. IMO the crisis end of last century was worse than 2008.

[HashBrownHarry]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

I was there then and no. IMO the crisis end of last century was worse than 2008.

I agree, any casino's come out of the 97' crash?

 

Not gonna happen.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, HashBrownHarry said:

I agree, any casino's come out of the 97' crash?

 

Not gonna happen.

In '97/ 98 life was great for we farangs. Yes, the wealthier were having to sell their Mercs in parking buildings, but IMO the rest of them just carried on.

 

What's happening now is far, far worse as it affects everyone.

[HashBrownHarry]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What's happening now is far, far worse as it affects everyone.

And the answer is to build casinos - lol.

 

Comedy gold, thanks for that, i like a good giggle.

[thaibeachlovers]

26 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

And the answer is to build casinos - lol.

 

Comedy gold, thanks for that, i like a good giggle.

and your so much better solution is..........................................

[jonga80]

Hi, I don't want to create a new topic for my easy question, so I will ask here, I hope someone can give me the info.

 

It's possible going now to Pattaya from Bangkok? I don't know about the restrictions, I think before the curfew time will be possible. And the second question, it's possible going to Koh Larn? This second one maybe not possible. Thank you.

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, rott said:

Not necessarily, lady prices vary and are generally subject to negotiation especially now. 

 

And beer prices, a number of bars are selling drink at up-country prices that is 70 and even 60 for a 620 ml bottle. Pre Covid prices, not current discount rates. 

Good, then you can just have sex on the bar or at your barstool. We need some old timers to tell us about barfine prices in the good old days and rejoice that they're back!

Edited August 16, 2021 by BigStar

[3NUMBAS]

a trickle of tourists but no critical mass

[rott]

11 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Good, then you can just have sex on the bar or at your barstool. We need some old timers to tell us about barfine prices in the good old days and rejoice that they're back!

I am sure that makes sense to you anyway. You say that people are too skint to pay the new higher prices and then say that prices are too low now. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by rott

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, rott said:

I am sure that makes sense to you anyway. You say that people are too skint to pay the new higher prices and then say that prices are too low now. 

Doesn't need to make sense as long as it's a chance to be sarcastic.

[HashBrownHarry]

53 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and your so much better solution is..........................................

Don't have one but i'm sure it won't involve casino's.

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, BigStar said:

SHOCK!  But illogical conclusion, of course. Crime, yes, perpetrated by the corrupt.

 

It's less expensive to cooperate in the corruption than fight it. On the other hand, if the bars don't comply with the law, pretty much, they'll be shut down. So mongers are finding things so much less convenient and more expensive than they used to be, though compliance isn't the only reason.

 

It actually takes some slight effort under Thai law to prove prostitution without entrapment. Very possible, of course, but hardly worth it for the BIB, as the mere act of selling sex for money isn't defined as such and isn't illegal. Enforcement, such as it is, is designed so that sex can be sold, legally, without obvious evidence of actual prostitution--under Thai law. Very Thai.

 

That is, what our farangs think of as "prostitution" is in fact condoned. So convenient. Which blows your little narrative but as I noted, do keep repeating it. Plays well.???? 

 

Normally, our members understand this perfectly, as they do the same all the time when they pay off the cops in traffic stop scams. Or so they claim; personally I've never been scammed by traffic cops or Immigration. Life just ain't fair, is it? Now I did pay too much for veggies once at a local market, but to a very charming lady.

 

<Mindless repetition and assertions lacking evidence to get the last word snipped>

 

 

 

So now you are saying prostitution is a crime under Thai law.  

 

I think you are confusing what exists in Thai law, and the enforcement of Thai law, which we know corruption play a part.

 

Here's a random article from Google of charges against a Soi 6 bar for prostitution.  

 

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/crime/police-raid-soi-6-bar-in-pattaya-undercover-prostitution-and-underage-sex

 

[BigStar]

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In '97/ 98 life was great for we farangs.

Rose-tinted rearview mirror, love it.

 

Fortunately, we have contemporary accounts to tell us how it really was. Not so great, as it turns out:

 

There are two types of articles appearing in the Pattaya Mail with regularity: those where business and political leaders decry the decline in tourism and propose ways to improve the situation; and a steadily increasing number of reports of tourists being insulted, assaulted, drugged, robbed and extorted.

 

. . .

 

It doesn’t matter if the streets are cleared of garbage, no one is going to walk down them if doing so leaves them open to being insulted and assaulted. Having a beach promenade doesn’t matter if strolling along it means taking the risk of being knocked down and robbed. No one is going to participate in the vibrant night-life if there is a good chance that they will wake up three days later in the hospital with all their possessions gone, or in some cases, not wake up at all. No one is going to seek an exotic experience if it means they might be set up by girls with both a legal age and under age ID, and then extorted for immense sums by the police.

Pattaya is being inundated with rude obnoxious thugs who do not care about the city or its visitors. They do not listen to the community leaders, and the police do not have the budget or manpower to control them. They are driving away the tourists and the income and jobs that they bring. Inevitably, this rabble will win as they reduce everyone to their level of poverty.

Meanwhile, tourism to Cambodia is increasing by 50% every six months...
     --Lawrence Neal, "Down on Pattaya," Pattaya Mail, Vol. V No.5, Friday 31 January 1997 - 6 February 1997.

 

The beneficent Golden Egg Layers supporting the entire Thai economy had run out of golden eggs and, driven away, were heading for the exits to the paradise of Cambodia. Tourism down. Rude obnoxious thugs inundating the streets, police powerless. Tourists insulted, assaulted, drugged, robbed and extorted. Thais being reduced to poverty! OMG!!!

 

What to do? Took about a decade to figure out.