U.S. Housing Prices Explosion Making Repatriation a Less Realistic Option for Many?

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, andy said:

I agree.  Fixed your typo though...

But there is a problem with that policy.

 

First of all health care.

 

No Medicare abroad.

 

Then the fact that Thailand has gradually squeezed out a good portion of retired expats over the years with the promise that this will continue.

 

Some will say rudely that's only cheating and lying expats. Some yes but certainly not all.

 

So then to avoid the US if leaving Thailand you need another country.

 

But wait.

 

There is now a definite global trend to make this harder for lower wealth retired expats.

 

Malaysia and Mexico are prime examples of that.

 

Yes there is "always" super easy Cambodia but most of us don't find that appealing and how long will that super easy last?

 

So bottom line for lower wealth people the squeeze is on.

 

At home.

In Thailand.

Shrinking desirable options in the rest of the world.

[Yellowtail]

27 minutes ago, andy said:

True.  Although for me and some other working expats I know, this is a non-issue because we will never reach 40 credits to qualify for it (we actually aren't allowed to pay in by law).  Also, I've lived in several countries and can report that USA healthcare isn't that good anyway.  It beats true 3rd world countries, but that is about it.

There's always SSI & Medicaid if poor. 

 

Self insuring in Thailand is not bad. 

 

27 minutes ago, andy said:

Yep, this is why as someone looking to retire in around 5 years or so, I have many countries on my radar.  The current requirements are ok, but current "leadership" in Thailand is too unstable to count on them not changing it every year.  No problem, I like SE Asia, have visited almost all countries in ASEAN and have several ideas.  The only option not within reason due to requirements is Malaysia, but I suspect that will change as they realize no retirees with $10k USD per month to spend are going to be coming there.

I doubt very much Malaysia wants low income retirees.  Not that I am claiming $10K a month low, but it's not high when you consider what most tourist bring. 

[Berkshire]

On 2/27/2022 at 12:26 PM, andy said:

Par for the course in California unfortunately.  Anywhere that is not a complete sh*th*le is going to have rent like that.  Just need to go further out in the desert to find affordability.  No worries, the retirement paradises of Barstow and Baker are waiting for you ????

Barstow.....5555, have to laugh.  Went through there many times on my way from SD/LA to Las Vegas.  I can confirm that there is a lot of nothing out there...if one is into that.  I also agree that pretty much any place in the USA that is "affordable" is probably a shthole.  It's affordable because no one wants to live there. 

[EVENKEEL]

27 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Barstow.....5555, have to laugh.  Went through there many times on my way from SD/LA to Las Vegas.  I can confirm that there is a lot of nothing out there...if one is into that.  I also agree that pretty much any place in the USA that is "affordable" is probably a shthole.  It's affordable because no one wants to live there. 

Nobody wants it.......until somebody wants it. 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Barstow.....5555, have to laugh.  Went through there many times on my way from SD/LA to Las Vegas.  I can confirm that there is a lot of nothing out there...if one is into that.  I also agree that pretty much any place in the USA that is "affordable" is probably a shthole.  It's affordable because no one wants to live there. 

Yes, not many nice places in great coastal areas available for people with no savings,  living hand-to-mouth on social security, that are unwilling or unable to work, and can't be bothered to investigate what government assistance programs are available.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GinBoy2]

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, not many nice places in great coastal areas available for people with no savings,  living hand-to-mouth on social security, that are unwilling or unable to work, and can't be bothered to investigate what government assistance programs are available.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thing is, once you get away from the coasts and into the heartland things change dramatically. You may not have a beach on your doorstep, but equally you're not destined to live in a hellhole.

I work with retired folks living on their SS and a part time job, living comfortable middle class lives, hardly the tale of destitution that seems to be peddled in this thread.

 

But if you want to live on next to nothing with no health insurance or support, I guess Cambodia is in your immediate future

[meechai]

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Thing is, once you get away from the coasts and into the heartland things change dramatically. You may not have a beach on your doorstep, but equally you're not destined to live in a hellhole.

I work with retired folks living on their SS and a part time job, living comfortable middle class lives, hardly the tale of destitution that seems to be peddled in this thread.

 

But if you want to live on next to nothing with no health insurance or support, I guess Cambodia is in your immediate future

Yup I tried a few times & gave up.

The usual suspects are out to cry the sky is falling in the USA without so much as having lived here in decades

 

No problem & like you say perhaps Cambodia or some other Favela is in their future as the obviously are looking for "something else"

 

PS: about coastal living...I have actually lived on beautiful beaches & would never again (own anything there)

The Salt eats it all in a matter of years even the glass picture windows all become pitted from Salt

The alum frames? Forget it oxidized to death & your car 5555 good luck with that salt infested cancer ????

 

[meechai]

On 2/22/2022 at 8:20 PM, Jingthing said:

Affordable in the U.S.?

I don't think so.

Consider someone on a 1300 SS check.

170 goes to Part B.

 

See^^^ Stuff like this from someone who does not know nor has lived in the US in how long?

Someone on 1300 a month SS gets free Part B & Part D but please dont let the facts stop your sky is falling song

[meechai]

On 2/22/2022 at 2:06 AM, Jingthing said:

Another point.

For those that do have a solid US network especially family they can live with, obviously that network would make things much easier. Indeed that might be a strong incentive to go home.

Actually you have that backwards

The Blue States give & give & give from others wallets but they give & give & give

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, meechai said:

Actually you have that backwards

The Blue States give & give & give from others wallets but they give & give & give

A right wing myth.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, meechai said:

See^^^ Stuff like this from someone who does not know nor has lived in the US in how long?

Someone on 1300 a month SS gets free Part B & Part D but please dont let the facts stop your sky is falling song

You must be talking about Medicare Advantage which is not real Medicare.

As an expat I have a low check and pay 170 for B. Not eligible for D as no US zip code.

[LarrySR]

2 hours ago, meechai said:

Actually you have that backwards

The Blue States give & give & give from others wallets but they give & give & give

California pays a whopping 17% of the Federal taxes with allot of the benefits going to tweakers, trailer trash and undereducated losers in the red states.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

California pays a whopping 17% of the Federal taxes with allot of the benefits going to tweakers, trailer trash and undereducated losers in the red states.

In a word yes.

[Jingthing]

Lower budget retired expats can mostly afford to live in very decent housing in typical retired expat countries. For money that would buy nothing in the US.

So not slums or favelas.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, LarrySR said:

California pays a whopping 17% of the Federal taxes with allot of the benefits going to tweakers, trailer trash and undereducated losers in the red states.

Why should the rich not pay more? 

[Yellowtail]

There are a number of federal programs available to assist low income retirees, all available in both red and blue states, and all paid for by both blue and red states. 

 

There are also a lot of state programs available to help low income retirees. 

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why should the rich not pay more? 

You believe that all Californians are rich? really? better look again...

1 in 6.6 residents live at or below the poverty line..

https://www.welfareinfo.org/poverty-rate/california/

What is the poverty rate in California?
The poverty rate in California is 15.1%. One out of every 6.6 residents of California lives in poverty.

How many people in California live in poverty?
5,773,408 of 38,242,946 residents reported income levels below the poverty line in the last year.

How does the Poverty Rate in California compare to the national average?
California ranks 34th in Poverty Rate at 15.1%(poverty rankings by state).The Poverty Rate of California is slightly higher than the national average of 14.6%.

[Jingthing]

9 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Thing is, once you get away from the coasts and into the heartland things change dramatically. You may not have a beach on your doorstep, but equally you're not destined to live in a hellhole.

I work with retired folks living on their SS and a part time job, living comfortable middle class lives, hardly the tale of destitution that seems to be peddled in this thread.

 

But if you want to live on next to nothing with no health insurance or support, I guess Cambodia is in your immediate future

Would need more details.

 

Do the comfortable ones:

 

Own a home?

 

How much SS?

 

Run a car?

 

If renting could they handle a 50 percent hike over a few years?

 

What if not fit enough to work or otherwise unemplotable like no car can't drive?

 

How healthy? Out of pocket costs even with Medicare often massive?

 

Personal family support network.

[Jingthing]

In my view a lot of the "everything is great" for retired Americans living on a low social security check comes not from logic and reality but more from an ingrained nationalist political ideology. Usually right wing but not always.

 

We are indoctrinated as children 

 

America number one!

 

In some things yes  In most things no. In some things dreadful.

 

Best country in the world!

 

In some things yes  In most things no. In some things dreadful.

 

All truly needy people will be rescued by social programs, church groups, etc.

 

Absolutely not!

 

Homeless people are all either mentally ill or love camping.

 

Absolutely not!

 

We don't need nationalized health care because emergency rooms meet all medical needs.

 

Absolutely not!

 

Housing prices reflect the perfection of free markets.

 

Absolutely not!

 

Etc.

 

[LarrySR]

32 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why should the rich not pay more? 

 

33 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why should the rich not pay more? 

Democrats want the rich to pay their fair share and regulate corporations to protect the environment...

...while Republicans always roll out tax cuts for the rich and ramp up corporate profits by deregulating and letting the dump their <deleted> into the environment.

 

[Yellowtail]

16 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You believe that all Californians are rich? really? better look again...

1 in 6.6 residents live at or below the poverty line..

https://www.welfareinfo.org/poverty-rate/california/

What is the poverty rate in California?
The poverty rate in California is 15.1%. One out of every 6.6 residents of California lives in poverty.

How many people in California live in poverty?
5,773,408 of 38,242,946 residents reported income levels below the poverty line in the last year.

How does the Poverty Rate in California compare to the national average?
California ranks 34th in Poverty Rate at 15.1%(poverty rankings by state).The Poverty Rate of California is slightly higher than the national average of 14.6%.

You must be a member of the intelligentsia, yes? 

 

First, I never said that "...all Californians are rich..., you just made that up because you are not able to formulate a real response. 

 

Second, I am a California native, I have family in California, I generally (pre-covid) visit Californian three or four times a year, and I have been filing a California state tax return intermittently since 1972, and continuously since 1997. 

 

Third, because I am a taxpayer, AND because I understand basic arithmetic, I know that the poor in California pay no federal income tax, which leaves the rich and middle-class to pay the taxes. Further, because federal income taxes are progressive, the rich (contrary to what CNN would have you believe) pay a disproportionate amount of US federal taxes. 

 

Finally, assuming California is paying a disproportionate amount of federal income taxes, it follows that the rich in California are paying it, and if you don't think there are a lot of rich people in California, you "better look again". 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

You must be a member of the intelligentsia, yes? 

 

First, I never said that "...all Californians are rich..., you just made that up because you are not able to formulate a real response. 

 

Second, I am a California native, I have family in California, I generally (pre-covid) visit Californian three or four times a year, and I have been filing a California state tax return intermittently since 1972, and continuously since 1997. 

 

Third, because I am a taxpayer, AND because I understand basic arithmetic, I know that the poor in California pay no federal income tax, which leaves the rich and middle-class to pay the taxes. Further, because federal income taxes are progressive, the rich (contrary to what CNN would have you believe) pay a disproportionate amount of US federal taxes. 

 

Finally, assuming California is paying a disproportionate amount of federal income taxes, it follows that the rich in California are paying it, and if you don't think there are a lot of rich people in California, you "better look again". 

I guess then that I am a Rich Californian, as I own 4 homes I rent out and have a house myself that I try to go back and forth to. I am glad I have a tax man who can whittle down the every year business tax return as well as my return.  Paying almost 90k in taxes to the feds is not my idea of fair or proportionate.  

[Yellowtail]

34 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

I guess then that I am a Rich Californian, as I own 4 homes I rent out and have a house myself that I try to go back and forth to. I am glad I have a tax man who can whittle down the every year business tax return as well as my return.  Paying almost 90k in taxes to the feds is not my idea of fair or proportionate.  

So you're rich AND greedy! 

[ThailandRyan]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

So you're rich AND greedy! 

Greed is good as Gordon Gekko once said in the movie Wallstreet. Working hard for ones money does not mean it should be given away to those less fortunate as the democrats try and do, yet look at Pelosi and those Dems whose wealth is far beyond others. The tax system is broken.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

Greed is good as Gordon Gekko once said in the movie Wallstreet. Working hard for ones money does not mean it should be given away to those less fortunate as the democrats try and do, yet look at Pelosi and those Dems whose wealth is far beyond others. The tax system is broken.

Yeah to hell with living in a decent society with more reasonable levels of inequality.

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah to hell with living in a decent society with more reasonable levels of inequality.

Being upper middle class as I am considered as well as the entire middle class pay the majority of taxes and we get raped annually.

[Jingthing]

Just now, ThailandRyan said:

Being upper middle class as I am considered as well as the entire middle class pay the majority of taxes and we get raped annually.

Not sure what you're doing on this topic except to vent about taxes. I assume you're set for US housing regardless.

[Jingthing]

Going forward its obvious that there is going to be a severe shortage of affordable housing for many years to come.

Returning expats are basically nothing compared to the masses of Americans that this effects.

But perhaps there are some rays of hope for the future.

There appears to be a lot of innovation going on in the areas of 

 

Manufactured homes

Modular homes

3D printer homes

Shipping container homes

Tiny homes

Tiny homes communities

 

But wait.

Unfortunately lower cost structures are usually not the majority of the cost especially in more desirable and / or urbanized areas.

 

The issues are of course the land and the zoning.

 

Also alternative structures where you rent rather than own the space are arguably as bad as or worse than regular rentals at least over the long term.

 

How many "nice" areas will hae neighbors willing to allow tiny home communities to exist? Very few! Nimby is a problem across the left right political spectrum so the blame should be widely applied.

 

Of course there are many more opportunities in rural areas to have a lower cost structure on owned lower cost land but then you're totally car dependent and far away from amenities you may want or need.

 

So, is there hope of a widespread solution? I think just a glimmer.

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

If you absolutely have to repatriate on a low fixed income, here are some ideas!

 

The Best Places in Every State To Live on a Fixed Income | GOBankingRates

[Jingthing]

It's highway robbery!