Lock downs

[chessman]

2 hours ago, Phuum said:

Sweden didn't lockdown. In spite of this there was no uncontrolled spread of the virus, no overwhelming of the hospitals. The excess death (all causes) for the year 2020 was 1.5%.

Sweden also has one of the highest rates of people living in single households in the world. Also one of the highest rates of people who work from home. Also, very generous rules concerning sick-pay if you are absent from work (and these rules were made more generous during the pandemic) Also, very low population density.
 

These characteristics make it very difficult to say that similar things would occur in other countries if they had had similar rules to Sweden.

 

Of course, the countries most similar to Sweden are Finland, Denmark and Norway and these countries faired much better in terms of stopping the spread but took basically exactly the same hit (in terms of 2020 GDP) to their economies as Sweden. Perhaps this is why the King of Sweden (who usually would not comment on things like this) apologised to the Swedish people for the country’s failure.

Edited August 25, 2021 by chessman

[sharksy]

On 8/24/2021 at 9:13 AM, rainham said:

In my opinion all lock downs have done is ruin mainly  working class peoples lives 

Nah.  Brought up working class, I'm very middle class now.  Covid has ruined my life too.

[sharksy]

21 hours ago, Kevin Taylor said:

Lockdowns of the entire population is dumb. It' really quite well known who the at risk of dying people are. Wouldn't it have made more sense for sick ill and unhealthy people to try to isolate untill they are vaccinated and the healthy population just go about there lives, we would have been over this nonsense long ago if that had been done.

Instead we've got this situation and for some reason people still want to listen to the health authorities and governments that have lied to us and missled us. Covid will still be there when you open the door after lockdown. As to the hospitals being prepared, it's getting on two years now if there not prepared now they're never going to be.

My friend who works at 2 local hospitals tells me that most of the covid patients are now 16-24 years old.  It also broke her heart when whe saw a baby screaming because of covid.

[hellohello123]

Love it

 

So many clueless old drunk farangs  thinking and judging they know better than actions put together by a team and nations of medical experts

[chessman]

26 minutes ago, hellohello123 said:

So many clueless old drunk farangs  thinking and judging they know better than actions put together by a team and nations of medical experts

Indeed, apart from doubling world life expectancy in the last 100 years, what has medical science ever done to help society?

[cooked]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:36 AM, placeholder said:

This is utterly false. Stop making things up.

You don't read "Extreme right wing conspiracy" sites much, do you?

This is not "utterly false". Stop making things up.

[cooked]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:36 AM, placeholder said:

This is utterly false. Stop making things up.

This is a PS: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-21/science-can-t-keep-up-with-virus-creating-worry-for-vaccinated?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=business&utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_source=twitter

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, cooked said:

This is a PS: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-21/science-can-t-keep-up-with-virus-creating-worry-for-vaccinated?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=business&utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_source=twitter

Did you actually read the article you linked to?

This is the worst case scenario cited by the article:

Authors of a CDC case study said this might mean that they were just as likely to transmit Covid-19 as the unvaccinated. Even so, they cautioned, as more people are vaccinated, it’s natural that they would also account for a larger share of Covid-19 infections and this one study was not sufficient to draw any conclusions. The incident prompted the CDC to reverse a recommendation it had issued just a few weeks earlier and once again urge the vaccinated to mask up in certain settings.

 Where does it say that the vaccines will increase your chances of contracting the virus.? Yet here is what you wrote:

It looks increasingly as if some vaccines will increase your chances of contracting the Delta variant, I am SUBMITTING to my need to be able to travel by taking the vaccines as instructed.

 

[cooked]

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

Did you actually read the article you linked to?

This is the worst case scenario cited by the article:

Authors of a CDC case study said this might mean that they were just as likely to transmit Covid-19 as the unvaccinated. Even so, they cautioned, as more people are vaccinated, it’s natural that they would also account for a larger share of Covid-19 infections and this one study was not sufficient to draw any conclusions. The incident prompted the CDC to reverse a recommendation it had issued just a few weeks earlier and once again urge the vaccinated to mask up in certain settings.

 Where does it say that the vaccines will increase your chances of contracting the virus.? Yet here is what you wrote:

It looks increasingly as if some vaccines will increase your chances of contracting the Delta variant, I am SUBMITTING to my need to be able to travel by taking the vaccines as instructed.

 

You Are getting yourself into a state of indignation, aren't you? I thought that a pro-more government, more bureaucracy news site might do it for you. The conclusions of this and other studies could be just as well be expressed differently and indeed they have been. Some medical professionals were warning of this possibility a year ago. Eventually certain people will admit that the best protection against Covid is having caught it at some point, meaning that being vaccinated makes you more liable to infection with the next variant to come along. 

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, cooked said:

You Are getting yourself into a state of indignation, aren't you? I thought that a pro-more government, more bureaucracy news site might do it for you. The conclusions of this and other studies could be just as well be expressed differently and indeed they have been. Some medical professionals were warning of this possibility a year ago. Eventually certain people will admit that the best protection against Covid is having caught it at some point, meaning that being vaccinated makes you more liable to infection with the next variant to come along. 

You don't think there's a significant difference between your previous claim that that vaccination makes you more likely to catch covid vs. vaccination makes you more likely to catch covid than does being previously infected with covid?

True, research does seem to show that if you get covid you are better protected than if you are vaccinated. So the best way to protect yourself from getting covid is to get covid? Really? Just so long as you don't die or suffer serious long term effects from the first bout. But that's a minor consideration.

Edited August 27, 2021 by placeholder

[cdemundo]

On 8/24/2021 at 9:32 PM, Phuum said:

Sweden didn't lockdown. In spite of this there was no uncontrolled spread of the virus, no overwhelming of the hospitals. The excess death (all causes) for the year 2020 was 1.5%.

Sweden has not been an unqualified success.

The following article doesn't not take sides and is not fuel for any side in the arguments about COVID control efforts.

It basically indicates the complexity of these matters.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/swedens-pandemic-experiment

[Sweden’s King, Carl XVI Gustaf, criticized the country’s policies, telling the state broadcaster, “The Swedish people have suffered enormously in difficult conditions,” and adding that, when it came to the strategy that the country employed, “I think we have failed.” Stefan Lofven, the country's Prime Minister, told reporters, “The fact that so many people have died cannot be seen as anything else than a failure.”]

 

[cooked]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

You don't think there's a significant difference between your previous claim that that vaccination makes you more likely to catch covid vs. vaccination makes you more likely to catch covid than does being previously infected with covid?

True, research does seem to show that if you get covid you are better protected than if you are vaccinated. So the best way to protect yourself from getting covid is to get covid? Really? Just so long as you don't die or suffer serious long term effects from the first bout. But that's a minor consideration.

You are indignantly splitting hairs. Read my last post again, people have been saying for more than a year that these vaccines will make you more liable to catch the Cov. Just because you refuse to read alternative news sites (well, how could you, they keep getting removed) doesn't mean it isn't true.

They were lying when they said that vaccines would offer better protection against Cov than natural infection and I have no reason to believe anything they say now. 

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, cooked said:

You are indignantly splitting hairs. Read my last post again, people have been saying for more than a year that these vaccines will make you more liable to catch the Cov. Just because you refuse to read alternative news sites (well, how could you, they keep getting removed) doesn't mean it isn't true.

They were lying when they said that vaccines would offer better protection against Cov than natural infection and I have no reason to believe anything they say now. 

 Currently, the vast majority of deaths  are of those who haven't been vaccinated. Kind of argues against a strategy of catching covid in order to beat covid, doesn't it?

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, cooked said:

You are indignantly splitting hairs. Read my last post again, people have been saying for more than a year that these vaccines will make you more liable to catch the Cov. Just because you refuse to read alternative news sites (well, how could you, they keep getting removed) doesn't mean it isn't true.

They were lying when they said that vaccines would offer better protection against Cov than natural infection and I have no reason to believe anything they say now. 

What are these ‘alternative news sites’?

 

Name them.

[rainham]

On 8/25/2021 at 12:52 AM, pjmorton said:

Didn't the lockdown of spring 2020 (in the absence of a vaccine) help to buy us 8 months of almost covid-free life? And then the lack of a lockdown, (coupled still with no vaccine) in spring 2021 accelerated the current surge. Easy for a retired person to say. 

 

Even if we all get Covid sooner or later, personally I would rather get it later

Exactly my point, we have a vaccine now so let's roll it out as soon as possible and get back to some semblance of normality.

[placeholder]

On 8/25/2021 at 3:22 AM, chessman said:

Sweden also has one of the highest rates of people living in single households in the world. Also one of the highest rates of people who work from home. Also, very generous rules concerning sick-pay if you are absent from work (and these rules were made more generous during the pandemic) Also, very low population density.
 

These characteristics make it very difficult to say that similar things would occur in other countries if they had had similar rules to Sweden.

 

Of course, the countries most similar to Sweden are Finland, Denmark and Norway and these countries faired much better in terms of stopping the spread but took basically exactly the same hit (in terms of 2020 GDP) to their economies as Sweden. Perhaps this is why the King of Sweden (who usually would not comment on things like this) apologised to the Swedish people for the country’s failure.

Actually, Sweden has the highest rate of single person households in the world.

https://www.flashpack.com/us/relationships/sweden-solo-living-single/

[chessman]

3 hours ago, rainham said:

Exactly my point, we have a vaccine now so let's roll it out as soon as possible and get back to some semblance of normality.

Is there anywhere in the world where this is not the plan?

[cooked]

On 8/28/2021 at 4:11 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

What are these ‘alternative news sites’?

 

Name them.

Just google "Extreme Fascist hateful and racist conspiracy theory news sites".

I have many factual websites that don't censor you for wanting to discuss stuff, you could find them too.