AirAsia no longer allowing masks with ventilation valves from today onwards

[Jeffr2]

Just saw this on Richard Barrow's feed.

 

???? IMPORTANT: In accordance with recommendations from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO), passengers are prohibited from wearing masks with ventilation valves from today onwards.

NOTE: This was shared by Airports of Thailand (AoT) on their Facebook page but I haven’t seen an announcement by CAAT making this compulsory for all airlines. Only AirAsia so far

 

https://www.facebook.com/1444560869129611/posts/2921954318056918/

Edited September 3, 2021 by Jeffr2

[internationalism]

valid since the beginning of pandemic, and longer before.

wear 2 masks - hospital one, which is too flimsy, and on top of it a large, well fitted valved one (even with carbon)

[kurtmartens]

Or just buy some actual N95, FPP2, FPP3 or KF94 masks and stop dicking around ....

 

[Jeffr2]

7 hours ago, internationalism said:

valid since the beginning of pandemic, and longer before.

wear 2 masks - hospital one, which is too flimsy, and on top of it a large, well fitted valved one (even with carbon)

I guessed you missed the part where masks with valves aren't acceptable?

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, kurtmartens said:

Or just buy some actual N95, FPP2, FPP3 or KF94 masks and stop dicking around ....

 

Actually, there are N95 masks with valves. They were created for workers exposed to large amounts of particulate matter in the atmosphere. Not designed to suppress contagion.

[kurtmartens]

10 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

I guessed you missed the part where masks with valves aren't acceptable?

Just to add my 2 cents.  Why would anyone wear a mask with a valve?  The valve renders the mask non medical grade - which is why the airlines are stopping the use.  Masks with valves built in are clearly marked for industrial use only/not for medical use.  

[kurtmartens]

Just now, placeholder said:

Actually, there are N95 masks with valves. They were created for workers exposed to large amounts of particulate matter in the atmosphere. Not designed to suppress contagion.

Yes, sorry you are 100% correct.  When I am talking about N95/FPP2, etc, etc I am just talking about medical grade.  NIOSH came up with the following mods to bring the valve masks up to the full non valved standards.  So.  Just buy a non valved N95 NIOSH mask (LOL)

 

Modifications examined by researchers included covering the valve on the interior of the FFR with commonly available surgical tape, covering it with an ECG pad, and stretching a surgical mask over the outside of the FFR. Covering an FFR with a surgical mask was not the most effective modification. Covering the interior of the valve with either an ECG pad or surgical tape reduced particle emissions to 5%.

[shdmn]

13 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

Just to add my 2 cents.  Why would anyone wear a mask with a valve?  The valve renders the mask non medical grade - which is why the airlines are stopping the use.  Masks with valves built in are clearly marked for industrial use only/not for medical use.  

Actually, the N95 industrial masks are the recommended ones, they also help filter out car exhaust particles (pm 2.5).  The problem with the valve is that it does not protect people around you.  It's only designed to protect you from incoming air.  So the best mask to use is N95 with no valve even if it makes breathing in a little harder.

 

I use the blue medical masks because they are easier to breath and more confortable but that is their problem.  Air easily gets around the sides.  The N95 is designed to seal around your face, which makes them less comfortable and harder to breath, but they force all air to go through the mask filter which is what you want.

Edited September 3, 2021 by shdmn

[kurtmartens]

24 minutes ago, shdmn said:

Actually, the N95 industrial masks are the recommended ones, 

Not disagreeing, but recommending by who?  I have never seen a recommendation for the industrial grade (with valve?).  All I have seen is broad recommendations for N95/FPP2.  And of course, my family takes that 1 step further to the standard 3M N95 NIOSH surgical (blue "smurf) masks when traveling (planes, etc) and just a standard N95 non NIOSH running around Chiangmai frankly.  

 

 

[shdmn]

18 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

Not disagreeing, but recommending by who?  I have never seen a recommendation for the industrial grade (with valve?).  All I have seen is broad recommendations for N95/FPP2.  And of course, my family takes that 1 step further to the standard 3M N95 NIOSH surgical (blue "smurf) masks when traveling (planes, etc) and just a standard N95 non NIOSH running around Chiangmai frankly.  

 

 

These link answers all those questions.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks

 

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf

 

https://www.orient-hose.com/the-difference-between-medical-and-non-medical-masks-in-n95/

 

  Based on that info I would say industrial grade is fine as long as it does not have a valve.  It seems the main difference with medical grade is that they have a coating to prevent blood and body fluid penetration.  That's only relevant in a medical setting.

Edited September 3, 2021 by shdmn

[Jingthing]

The masks with valves should be made illegal to wear anywhere except in specific industrial settings for that purpose as opposed to Covid control. The valve masks are worse for non wearers than no mask. 

[cardinalblue]

A surgical mask is nothing but a barrier mask designed more for the patient as a barrier from the wearer but also acts as a barrier if a blood/bodily spill for the provider 

 

it does not meet the definition of a respirator like a N95 b/c impossible to get a tight fit to pass any qualitative or quantitative test…

 

they said, it has become much more effective in this pandemic than would have been thought previously given its poor design properties 

[vandeventer]

9 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I guessed you missed the part where masks with valves aren't acceptable?

They are only good for the user.as when they exhale through the value they could spread the virus if they have covid 19.

[Jingthing]

Yes they do.

 

https://www.livescience.com/randomized-trial-shows-surgical-masks-work-curbing-covid.html

 

Huge, gold-standard study shows unequivocally that surgical masks work to reduce coronavirus spread

[The Theory]

Just wear a simple surgical mask over the mask with valve.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, The Theory said:

Just wear a simple surgical mask over the mask with valve.

Bad advice. 

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes they do.

 

https://www.livescience.com/randomized-trial-shows-surgical-masks-work-curbing-covid.html

 

Huge, gold-standard study shows unequivocally that surgical masks work to reduce coronavirus spread

For those who can't be bothered to click, or, as is more likely the case, prefer to ignore the evidence, here is the headline and the  first 3 sentences from the article:

Huge, gold-standard study shows unequivocally that surgical masks work to reduce coronavirus spread

Results from a massive study in Bangladesh unequivocally show that surgical masks reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2, scientists say. 

The results — from the highest-quality, gold-standard type of clinical trial, known as a randomized controlled trial — should "end any scientific debate" on whether masks are effective in battling the spread of COVID-19, Jason Abaluck, an economist at Yale and one of the authors who helped lead the study, told The Washington Post.

"This is an incredibly challenging but important study to pull off," Megan Ranney, an emergency medicine physician and a professor at Brown University who was not part of the study, told the Post.

https://www.livescience.com/randomized-trial-shows-surgical-masks-work-curbing-covid.html

 

 

[kurtmartens]

10 hours ago, shdmn said:

These link answers all those questions.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks

 

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf

 

https://www.orient-hose.com/the-difference-between-medical-and-non-medical-masks-in-n95/

 

  Based on that info I would say industrial grade is fine as long as it does not have a valve.  It seems the main difference with medical grade is that they have a coating to prevent blood and body fluid penetration.  That's only relevant in a medical setting.

I looked at the links.  Certainly not a recommendation to wear valved masks.  And I stand by my original statement that while you can buy valved N95 masks, they aren't for medical use and shouldn't be used for such.  Better to use a standard N95/KN95/FPP2  and even better to use a medical grade one.

[Ralf001]

I'll have to bin mine then.

 

[kurtmartens]

2 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

A surgical mask is nothing but a barrier mask designed more for the patient as a barrier from the wearer but also acts as a barrier if a blood/bodily spill for the provider 

 

it does not meet the definition of a respirator like a N95 b/c impossible to get a tight fit to pass any qualitative or quantitative test…

 

they said, it has become much more effective in this pandemic than would have been thought previously given its poor design properties 

If you are going to wear a mask, why not just wear a N95 rated mask?  They are so cheap now, what's the point wearing a surgical mask.  I still avoid KN95 (made in China, just don't trust the QC/QA) and go with Korean or Japanese).  

 

Obviously the full blown 3M 1860 N95 NIOSH and similar name brands are the ultimate level in protection, etc, etc.  

[kurtmartens]

20 minutes ago, The Theory said:

Just wear a simple surgical mask over the mask with valve.

It's been shown that isn't a good solution, better to tape the valve shut from the inside actually.  (Oddly)

[kurtmartens]

5 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

I'll have to bin mine then.

 

Love it!  Funny, there is one parent at my kids' school who actually was wearing this type of full blown respirator last year.  Haven't seen her this year.  Even I must admit this is a bit overkill.  But, it does get you some attention!  LOL

[kurtmartens]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

This is the same guy who claims that the spikes created by cells in response to mRNA vaccine instructions are toxic and travel to the brain.

https://www.wfla.com/news/national/false-conspiracy-theory-that-covid-19-vaccines-spike-proteins-are-cytotoxic-debunked-by-experts/

Or that the vaccine makes you into a human magnet.  I must admit I was upset that when I got home this week from getting my 1st jab of Pfizer and tried to see in my keys would stick to my arm ... and they didn't I was disappointed.   LOL

[Nemo.]

16 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

Or that the vaccine makes you into a human magnet.  I must admit I was upset that when I got home this week from getting my 1st jab of Pfizer and tried to see in my keys would stick to my arm ... and they didn't I was disappointed.   LOL

What you didn't get the free wifi with the Bill Gates microchip in the vacvine?

 

I did and great service.... lol

[The Theory]

50 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Bad advice. 

"bad advice" ?!!!!! ????????????
What is the difference wearing a surgical mask over your mouth or over a valve (no direct air out) ? besides that, "you" don't have to do it. 
 

Edited September 4, 2021 by The Theory

[The Theory]

23 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

It's been shown that isn't a good solution, better to tape the valve shut from the inside actually.  (Oddly)

Yes , right

you do it that way.

[kurtmartens]

10 minutes ago, The Theory said:

Yes , right

you do it that way.

I'm just telling you what the study reported.  I wouldn't wear a mask with a valve, regardless.  The 5% makes it the same as a standard non valved N95 mask.  

 

Modifications examined by researchers included covering the valve on the interior of the FFR with commonly available surgical tape, covering it with an ECG pad, and stretching a surgical mask over the outside of the FFR. Covering an FFR with a surgical mask was not the most effective modification. Covering the interior of the valve with either an ECG pad or surgical tape reduced particle emissions to 5%.

 

 

[kurtmartens]

15 minutes ago, The Theory said:

"bad advice" ?!!!!! ????????????
What is the difference wearing a surgical mask over your mouth or over a valve (no direct air out) ? besides that, "you" don't have to do it. 
 

NIOSH says it's not as effective as covering the valve from the inside of the mask.  And I think we can all agree NIOSH knows better than any of us?  Although a valved N95 is certainly better than a surgical mask by itself I would venture to guess.  

[The Theory]

8 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

I'm just telling you what the study reported.  I wouldn't wear a mask with a valve, regardless.  The 5% makes it the same as a standard non valved N95 mask.  

 

Modifications examined by researchers included covering the valve on the interior of the FFR with commonly available surgical tape, covering it with an ECG pad, and stretching a surgical mask over the outside of the FFR. Covering an FFR with a surgical mask was not the most effective modification. Covering the interior of the valve with either an ECG pad or surgical tape reduced particle emissions to 5%.

 

 

Most of people just wearing cheap masks that not even work as real genuine simple surgical masks. The reason that an airline ban masks with valve is "direct air out" by valve. 
 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by The Theory

[Mises]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Yes they do.

 

https://www.livescience.com/randomized-trial-shows-surgical-masks-work-curbing-covid.html

 

Huge, gold-standard study shows unequivocally that surgical masks work to reduce coronavirus spread

Absolute risk reduction was 1%, statistically insignificant amongst all the uncontrolled variables, some of which were admitted in the paper.