What about us? Furious retirees/expats in Thailand slam proposals to attract wealthy foreigners

[jacko45k]

22 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Why would you have a Thai Taxpayer ID, I presume because you worked in Thailand previously?

I got mine by asking for one.... I wanted to claim back the withholding tax I had paid on bank interest.. (Many years ago it was appreciable... nowadays, not so).

[CharlieH]

Reported petty bickering exchange removed.

[Mr Meeseeks]

21 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

My wife has now been a permanent resident in the US for 3 years, and last weekend we filed the paperwork for her to become a citizen, because she's married to me.

 

That's just not a scenario that's going to play out in Thailand!

It is if you work for three years in Thailand and pay taxes. 

[Nsp64]

On 9/15/2021 at 10:28 AM, Neeranam said:

If a Thai retiree wants to live in the USA, he must invest 16,000,000 baht, yet USA retirees here moan about just SHOWING 800,000 baht ONCE a year at immigration. 

Foreigners who work here, and give to the country, can get PR or citizenship, in quite a simple process(especially if married to a Thai).

I find it laughable when I hear a retired butcher, Bert from Bolton, who married Buriram Noi from the Pink Pussy bar, complain about not getting a Thai ID card. 

Although I don't like the condescending tone of your post I do have to agree wholeheartedly.

It is always the expats on a shoestring budget that complain the most.

Its not your right to live here, they dont have to bend to your demands.

Before you all give this post a bashing, just think about it.

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Nsp64 said:

Although I don't like the condescending tone of your post I do have to agree wholeheartedly.

It is always the expats on a shoestring budget that complain the most.

Its not your right to live here, they dont have to bend to your demands.

Before you all give this post a bashing, just think about it.

A 'like' emoticon would have sufficed. 

 

it is my right to live here, I am Thai. 

[Freddy42OZ]

On 9/15/2021 at 10:33 AM, Neeranam said:

Most foreigners don't know their place. 

They are not even on the bottom rung of the Thai hierarchical social ladder, and make no effort at all to reach it. 

Most of the older foreigners that come here are barely on the bottom rung of the hierarchical social ladder in their own countries. 

 

[joecoolfrog]

On 9/15/2021 at 4:04 AM, mikebell said:

They are trotting out this hoary old chestnut more and more frequently now as desperation sets in.  The wealthy will not come to live in a place where there is no rule of law; no police force; dangerous roads AND a pandemic of corruption from the local cop up to the very highest in the land. Droughts and floods alternate regularly and then there are the dogs!

If , as many suspect , the targeted individuals are Chinese and Indian , the above points are not really a deterent , they are accustomed to the same at home.

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

I wonder whether someone powerful in the Thai government is going to follow Malaysia's example? Then we will see an exodus of retirees from Thailand....

Follow Malaysia's example, when your economy has suffered so badly and you need people to spend money.... shoot your self in the foot.

[relax33]

27 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

If , as many suspect , the targeted individuals are Chinese and Indian , the above points are not really a deterent , they are accustomed to the same at home.

don't mean to offend but seriously .. have you ever visited China, go visit n see the place or at least gather feedback from the hordes of westerners staying there before being deceived ...
Staying in China easily beats staying in the US or Europe for many  .. but of cos the western media will conveniently ignore it, just like they had  conveniently ignored the presence of Thai Airways or any of the Asian Airlines in the past when saying western airlines (ahem) have the best service n the most attractive air attendants (which can be right in some instances if the age was dialed back by 20 years ... ha )

Edited September 16, 2021 by relax33

[bkkcanuck8]

On 9/14/2021 at 10:59 PM, Pravda said:

It's the same like when you've been with a certain bank for 20 years and they give $300 to new customers who open a checking account with them and nothing to their old and loyal ones.

 

So, what about you? Nada. It's just business.

 

 

No, it is not like that... it is like the customers that have been with the bank for 20 years doing all their business... but generate less income than new customers that they attract with generous incentives... yet still worth more in one year than those customers that are complaining about being treated as if they are less important...  I just think their expectations are wildly out of proportion with reality through.

[jacko45k]

58 minutes ago, Nsp64 said:

It is always the expats on a shoestring budget that complain the most.

Those types don't need a shoestring budget.... a pair of flip flops every 5-6 months.

[Tanomazu]

8 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I think you will find there is a tax treaty between Australia and Thailand, so you only ever pay tax in one country. There is no tax transferring savings to thailand, any money transferred to thailand is savings, unless you say otherwise.

 If you live 180 days in Thailand than you can be liable to pay tax in Thailand and the double tax treaty is irrelevant in terms of tax liability in Thailand. It just means you need to sort out your home country residence status with the home tax authority to avoid paying tax twice using the double taxation treaty rules.

 

In reality of course the Thai enforcement authorities can not keep track of who stays how long in Thailand so nobody in Thailand pays tax on their pension, when according to the law they should.

 

You are right that savings generally are not taxed in Thailand "if not paid in or remitted into Thailand within the same calendar year it is received".

 

https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/thailand-income-tax.html

 

 

 

 

[Tanomazu]

9 hours ago, GazR said:

Aussie Questioner: I have a Thai Taxpayer ID number from the Revenue Dept.. My understanding is that, If i were to retire to Thailand and live on investment income and/or a pension, then I would be liable (if not expected) to declare both as income and potentially incur a tax liability.  .What say you, chaps ?

If you receive salary income, say from an investment company you own in the Cayman Islands, that is not taxable if it is not paid in or remitted into Thailand within the same calendar year it is received .

 

Capital gains from the sale of shares in a company listed on the Stock Exchange of Thailand (if the sale is made through a licensed broker) or from the sale of investment units in a mutual fund are exempt from tax.

 

Any capital gain or investment income from sources outside Thailand is not subject to taxation unless a resident taxpayer remitted the process into Thailand within the same calendar year it is received.

 

And yes, according to the letter of the law you should be paying tax on your pension in Thailand, in reality if you even tried the Thai tax authorities would turn you away. This has actually happened to pensioners who tried to pay tax in Thailand apparently.

 

https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/thailand-income-tax.html

[JustAnotherHun]

1 hour ago, relax33 said:

..just like they had  conveniently ignored the presence of Thai Airways or any of the Asian Airlines in the past when saying western airlines (ahem) have the best service..

Really? When should that have been so? in the 1950s?

In the 90s, Thai Air was named as one of worlds best airlines. Same with Singapour Air. 

[Mike k]

15 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Lol. Snappy comeback Neeranam! It might also help if the wife-beater-wearing ruffians don nice shoes and learn the language a bit like, innit  ????

I don't wear a Chang vest or a wife beater I do wear sandels most of the time because the only way I can get shoes is to order them and lazada don't have my size I drive a truck but I have been driving a pickup truck since I first got a license decades ago. I don't speak the lingo because I have a hard time remembering the words but I have picked up a little bit. 

[bangon04]

On 9/15/2021 at 4:04 AM, mikebell said:

The wealthy will not come to live in a place where there is no rule of law; no police force; dangerous roads AND a pandemic of corruption from the local cop up to the very highest in the land. 

So you feel that the wealthy Chinese, who have acquired their wealth by slightly "dubious" methods in the cutthroat Chinese economy, and are looking to park this wealth out of reach of the CCP tax collector/regulator, would not consider a country with "no rule of law" and a "pandemic of corruption" led by a huge population of Sino-Thais who will facilitate the evasion of justice????

Living here permanently is NOT a requirement.......

Edited September 16, 2021 by bangon04

[Thunglom]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Really? When should that have been so? in the 1950s?

In the 90s, Thai Air was named as one of worlds best airlines. Same with Singapour Air. 

I was a frequent flyer with Thai airways from 1998 to 2005 and they were DREADFUL.

[Thunglom]

On 9/15/2021 at 4:04 AM, mikebell said:

The wealthy will not come to live in a place where there is no rule of law; no police force; dangerous roads AND a pandemic of corruption from the local cop up to the very highest in the land.

I would say tt is precisely what WOULD attract them.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Mike k said:

I don't wear a Chang vest or a wife beater I do wear sandels most of the time because the only way I can get shoes is to order them and lazada don't have my size I drive a truck but I have been driving a pickup truck since I first got a license decades ago. I don't speak the lingo because I have a hard time remembering the words but I have picked up a little bit. 

Most of us here don't wear a Chang vest. It is actually OK for a single foreigner to wear one as they don't know the culture yet; what is sad is when you see a guy with a Thai woman who doesn't tell him to take it off when going in a public place, or doesn't care as the extended family throw things into their trolley. 

[bkkcanuck8]

21 minutes ago, bangon04 said:

So you feel that the wealthy Chinese, who have acquired their wealth by slightly "dubious" methods in the cutthroat Chinese economy, and are looking to park this wealth out of reach of the CCP tax collector/regulator, would not consider a country with "no rule of law" and a "pandemic of corruption" led by a huge population of Sino-Thais who will facilitate the evasion of justice????

Living here permanently is NOT a requirement.......

No, I do not... they would park it through a process of laundering... likely in Singapore ... along with many here and elsewhere.  A lot of money in Singpore is not looked at that closely and it is a more secure place to park it.

[Mr Meeseeks]

12 hours ago, Crok said:

I have several condos in Thailand and left for a trip outside Thailand in March2020 before borders closed. Have not been able to return, my visa has expired, driver’s licence expired and am paying tax.. Have been told by Thai embassy can only renew all in person in Thailand and now will have to start the process again. What about those former permanent residents??

You have never been a permanent resident if you were on a visa. 

[Orinoco]

2 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

In reality of course the Thai enforcement authorities can not keep track of who stays how long in Thailand so nobody in Thailand pays tax on their pension, when according to the law they should.

That's not very hard to do.

Nice new income stream just waiting for them to get going.

just stay one jump ahead of Thai tax man, if you can.

i think the writing has been on the wall for a few years now.

Thailand, love you long time, but money better mister. !!!!!! LOL.

 

[Tanomazu]

5 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

That's not very hard to do.

Nice new income stream just waiting for them to get going.

just stay one jump ahead of Thai tax man, if you can.

i think the writing has been on the wall for a few years now.

Thailand, love you long time, but money better mister. !!!!!! LOL.

 

That's what I thought. It must be the volume of foreigners in Thailand, coupled with the fact the officials get paid peanuts and can't be bothered to do that work. Would be a lot of work, but they get paid for doing very little now.

[ericthai]

7 hours ago, John Drake said:

From the United States government: 

 

That's only for emergency,  not regular care. 

[starky]

Well as the starky that was  quoted in the OP. I don't really expect much of the Thai government at all to be brutally honest. And if me spending over a million baht a year, year in year out for 20 years doesn't seem to be that much in the grand scheme of things, I can cop that on the chin as well certainly not shouting from the roof tops. But as many here do know people with vastly more wealth are very unlikely to be attracted to Thailand and this preposterous notion they will be holds as much water as all the other statements released by tat, the government, the medical community and all the other fallacious nonsense that we are subjected to day after day ad nauseum.

[thaibook]

On 9/15/2021 at 12:16 PM, Old Croc said:

Albania is the new up and coming retirement destination along the Adriatic coast. Cheaper than Croatia. 

just the place if you like things run by criminal gangs although if you make the right connections you will be well protected.

[Kwaibill]

On 9/15/2021 at 10:16 AM, worgeordie said:

OK go there, but you will find it a lot more expensive, just leave

things the way they are ,if they start making changes we could

end up a lot worse off.

regards Worgeordie

I think the point is that the people intended to be "lured" in this scheme can afford to live in other oriental paradises with, among other things, more stable governments. Revolving juntas don't inspire confidence in the well to do, particularly.

A friend's well to do family from Myanmar lost most everything when the ethnic Chinese got the boot.

Could it happen in Thailand?

[thaibook]

On 9/15/2021 at 1:22 PM, Longwood50 said:

Attracting the wealthy is an admirable goal but the truly wealthy have many choices.  I doubt that Thailand would rank high on their lists of places to relocate to.  There is Singapore, Hong Kong, Bali, and lets not forget Hawaii, or Monaco.  

Even if successful, there are many foreigners of average to above average means, but few that are wealthy.  The stores, taxi's restaurants, etc need volume not the purchases of a relatively small group of people in order for them to prosper.  Perhaps the government should figure out that wealthy people do not buy in the markets, eat the same amount as non wealthy people, don't use taxi's and when they dine out, they may order more expensive food, but they don't eat the same amount as if you had 24 diners instead of only 2. 

Their food is mainly imported, their cars are imported, they do their shopping in HK, Paris, Milan and Monaco.  Their bank accounts are offshore and in New York or London.  And what will they do?  There is no Channel fashion show, men's tailors are not up to Saville Row or Milan standards.  All in all even if rich people buy a pad here, they will spend little that benefits the Thao economy.

 

Ralking of shopping, a rich friend used to offer well dressed Thai women a weekend of shopping in Hong Kong.  It is a much more effective opening gambit than many.  Very few turned him down, even married ones.

[thaibook]

On 9/15/2021 at 2:53 PM, Rookiescot said:

Not in the way it has happened in countries like Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar.

My understanding is there are places in those countries where the locals are not allowed to go. Entire towns full of casinos owned by the Chinese, run by the Chinese, staffed with Chinese and only Chinese customers.

Quite so, been to such an autonomous zone in northern Burma.  The Chinese are more ruthless and more corrupt than the Thais so of course they have acquired land.

[The Cipher]

I'm gonna be real for a second. A lot of posters here don't know any rich people and man, it shows.

 

So many oft-repeated notions here seem to come right out of movies and media and not real life experience.