Thai netizens fierily debate Pfizer vaccine for students as anti-vaxxers emerge

[jossthaifarang]

7 hours ago, timendres said:

Indeed. Tired of the "anti-vax" label. People who are a bit dubious of a vaccine technology that failed to garner FDA approval for 15 years, but it suddenly "safe", are simply being prudent. I have had many "traditional" vaccines in my life, but this new technology is something for which I have a "wait and see" approach. Maybe those blindly lining up for the vaccines should be labeled "anti-critical-thinkers".

Thank you for saying it for me, exactly right mate.

[jossthaifarang]

6 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Even if they're saying that a vaccine is dangerous and "genocide" with no evidence?

Well maybe thats because no one is gathering any evidence?

[Thai Visa Member 999999]

12 minutes ago, jossthaifarang said:

Well maybe thats because no one is gathering any evidence?

LOL. You haven't paid attention then.  

[LongTimeLurker]

14 hours ago, Paradise Pete said:

Yes, of course. After all, only a few billion doses have been safely administered. we need more data! ????????‍♂️

Yes we need more data, where are the short term (5 year) and long term (10 year) statistics on the safety of these few billion doses.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by onthedarkside
off topic link removed

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, johng said:

I don't see pro vax  statements being censored  or pro vax scientist being de-platformed and branded as quacks  even though they may well be proven correct.

Or may well be proven wrong?

[jossthaifarang]

43 minutes ago, Thai Visa Member 999999 said:

LOL. You haven't paid attention then.  

Mate I am not Antivax at all, I have had plenty in my life and so has my wife and children. I do agree though that people have a right to be weary of experimental vaccines. The term should be Anti-experimental- vaxers. It would be unwise not to ask questions with any new medication you are injecting into your body.

[rudi49jr]

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

How much money does an anti-vaxxer receive for everyone NOT vaccinated?

How much money does Fox News (using the term ‘news’ very loosely here) make with their ridiculous and constant anti-vax and anti-mask message? Every night you can see Tucker Carlson cum suis rail against the vaccines and mask mandates and millions and millions of people watch and lap it up.
And you know what? Fox News requires all their employees to be vaccinated, or tested on a daily basis. What’s the word I’m looking for here? Hmmm, could that be called hypocritical? Or just insane?

[Scott]

Posts making reference to the contracts between countries and Pfizer have been removed.  It's off-topic. 

 

Stay on topic.

 

[MarcelV]

Every country has its loons. Never mind them.

[Thai Visa Member 999999]

14 minutes ago, jossthaifarang said:

Mate I am not Antivax at all, I have had plenty in my life and so has my wife and children. I do agree though that people have a right to be weary of experimental vaccines. The term should be Anti-experimental- vaxers. It would be unwise not to ask questions with any new medication you are injecting into your body.

I don't have a problem with that. If you say, "I want to wait x number of years for the data," fine with me. It's the whack jobs who concoct all sorts of claims about changing DNA, etc. I do think that people who want to wait and then get Covid-19 stay home and not burden public resources like they are in the USA. 

[rudi49jr]

15 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Show me the medium term (5 year) and long term (10 year) data of the effects of these 5 billion vaccinations.

 

I'd even accept 3 year data.

This is the best that we’ve got so far, the vaccines that are now available. They seem to be doing a good job, and the vast majority of experts seem to think that the vaccines are - relatively - safe. I’m not a doctor, not a virologist or an expert, so who am I to argue? Am I going to risk catching a potentially deadly virus, and/or passing it on to my circle of family, friends and co-workers? Or am I going to take the vaccine and protect myself and the people around me? For me, that was not a difficult choice.

[Why Me]

Actually, a good point HW. The answer lies in "Emergency use Authorization." Which is invoked when an illness poses a public health emergency. FDA assesses the med for a balance between risk and benefit before allowing use.

 

EUA was used to bring the first AIDS drugs to market and saved thousands of lives. Same thing with the mRNA vaxes and C-19. After EUA,  data is compiled and followed for regular authorization. In the case of the AIDS cocktails nothing untoward was found. All good. Ditto mRNA vaccines. Millions have been administered and there's no evidence of consistent adverse events.

Edited October 9, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[LetsGoBrandon]

1 minute ago, rudi49jr said:

This is the best that we’ve got so far, the vaccines that are now available. They seem to be doing a good job, and the vast majority of experts seem to think that the vaccines are - relatively - safe. I’m not a doctor, not a virologist or an expert, so who am I to argue? Am I going to risk catching a potentially deadly virus, and/or passing it on to my circle of family, friends and co-workers? Or am I going to take the vaccine and protect myself and the people around me? For me, that was not a difficult choice.

you did the right thing....no one has any right to dissuade someone from taking a vaxxine.

 

AND VICE VERSA.

[vinci]

all of my nieces and nephews in the US, 4 in total, youngest 12 oldest 18 all are vaccinated for almost 2 month now 

[LongTimeLurker]

5 minutes ago, Why Me said:

Millions have been administered and there's no evidence of consistent adverse events.

Because they don't have sufficient data yet!!!

[rudi49jr]

4 minutes ago, LetsGoBrandon said:

you did the right thing....no one has any right to dissuade someone from taking a vaxxine.

 

AND VICE VERSA.

I’m not saying you have to take the vaccine. I’m just saying that if you don’t, I don’t want to come anywhere near you. 

[vinci]

when it's come to pandemic anti-vaxxer has no right, no freedom, we vaccinated to save your life while you spreading to kill other

[LetsGoBrandon]

8 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

I’m not saying you have to take the vaccine. I’m just saying that if you don’t, I don’t want to come anywhere near you. 

I understand....these days you can never be too careful.

[Scott]

Posts have been removed.  Continue with the snide, off-topic, conspiracy posts, discussion of the Board of Directors of companies etc, will earn a suspension.  

 

One member is now on suspension, if you wish to join, continue posting nonsense.  

 

The topic is about clear.

[Scott]

 Our DNA is safely stored in the cell nucleus and the mRNA doesn't enter the nucleus.  mRNA vaccines have been tried in the past on a host of diseases, but for various reasons they weren't particularly effective on those types of viruses.  Some of those trials were on humans and following those participants points toward no long-term effects. 

The anti-vaxxer crowd are careful.  Their purpose is to continue to plant doubt and scare people.  Scaring people is not difficult when it comes to diseases.   Fear is powerful.

Thailand has responded to the myocarditis concern in younger males with a modification to the general protocol.   I think the point that is being missed, however, is that the rate of myocarditis in unvaccinated youth is 37 times higher if they get Covid.  

 

Of course, parents are going to be nervous about vaccines.  We are programmed to be protective of our children.  That said, I don't know that we can easily get the virus under control if it is allowed to circulate in any group, including children.  If we want them in school and educated then our options are limited.  

[Thai Visa Member 999999]

10 minutes ago, Scott said:

Our DNA is safely stored in the cell nucleus and the mRNA doesn't enter the nucleus. 

This isn't correct. mRNA is synthesized in the nucleus. This process is called "transcription". The mRNA is usually, not always depending on the sequence, exported out of the nucleus into the cytoplasm, and serves as the basis from which proteins are made. This is called "translation." There are exceptions given the vast number of mRNAs and proteins that are made but this has been our understanding for some time. 

 

 

[Albert Zweistein]

Got my first Pfizer jab on March 11 and the second one on April 16 and I am still alive and well. Surprising how many virologists on here on this subject.

[jossthaifarang]

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

I’m not saying you have to take the vaccine. I’m just saying that if you don’t, I don’t want to come anywhere near you. 

Why not? If you are vaccinated you are safe right? Or do you realize that even once vaccinated you can still get sick and spread the virus yourself. So pretty much in the same boat, I have been vaccinated by the way. Just having a laugh at how people think they are better than others because of it...

[LetsGoBrandon]

7 minutes ago, Albert Zweistein said:

Got my first Pfizer jab on March 11 and the second one on April 16 and I am still alive and well. Surprising how many virologists on here on this subject.

no vax would dare mess with a guy called albert zweistein.

congrats on the great result.

[Nickelbeer]

Here's a chance for anti vaxxers to be charged under the computer crimes act. Bravo.

[Stargeezr]

There have been millions of people including children over 12 getting the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines

and I have not seen any news stories of bad news except for some heart issues in the younger boys.

   Raging hormones do not help that age group.  It seems that people will some times listen to fake

news stories and believe them, instead of getting some real facts, but I guess that is the modern human nature.

  There are younger people also dying from COVID, and especially the Delta variant, it seems that over 700 thousand have

died just in the USA alone.  This virus is still deadly and in my mind, may be one of the modern day

pestilences.

Geezer

[Scott]

1 hour ago, Thai Visa Member 999999 said:

This isn't correct. mRNA is synthesized in the nucleus. This process is called "transcription". The mRNA is usually, not always depending on the sequence, exported out of the nucleus into the cytoplasm, and serves as the basis from which proteins are made. This is called "translation." There are exceptions given the vast number of mRNAs and proteins that are made but this has been our understanding for some time. 

 

 

Sorry, I meant the mRNA from the vaccine does not enter the nucleus.  I am not aware of the mRNA ever re-entering the nucleus after being exported.

 

 

[Scott]

Posts and replies removed.

 

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, jossthaifarang said:

Why not? If you are vaccinated you are safe right? Or do you realize that even once vaccinated you can still get sick and spread the virus yourself. So pretty much in the same boat, I have been vaccinated by the way. Just having a laugh at how people think they are better than others because of it...

When you are vaccinated you can still become infected and get sick, that much is true, but the chances of getting seriously sick and ending up in ICU are much smaller. And you’re less likely to pass it on. And that’s the whole point, to minimize the risks to yourself and others around you. That’s why I prefer not to come into close contact with people who are not vaccinated. When it comes to a potentially deadly virus, I just don’t want to take any chances, even though I am vaccinated. Has nothing to do with thinking I’m better than others, everything to do with not wanting to die because someone didn’t get vaccinated.

[cdemundo]

12 hours ago, timendres said:

Indeed. Tired of the "anti-vax" label. People who are a bit dubious of a vaccine technology that failed to garner FDA approval for 15 years, but it suddenly "safe", are simply being prudent. I have had many "traditional" vaccines in my life, but this new technology is something for which I have a "wait and see" approach. Maybe those blindly lining up for the vaccines should be labeled "anti-critical-thinkers".

[People who are a bit dubious of a vaccine technology that failed to garner FDA approval for 15 years, but it suddenly "safe", are simply being prudent.]

 

At this point the idea that the mRNA vaccines are "suddenly safe" is absolutely not true.

 

The Pfizer vaccine has been given to over 230,000,000 people and Moderna to more than 152,000,000 people in the US.

Total then is 382,000,000 mRNA vaccines given in the US.

 

Go to the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) for the US where every adverse effect reported is counted no matter what the source.

This also includes J&J vaccine reports.

As of May 2021 there were 228,000 reports regarding the COVID vaccines.

Let's be conservative and more than double that number to 500,000.

 

Now the fraction of reports of any kind is 500,000/382,000,000 = 0.00131.

What is that as a percentage? 0.00131 x 100% = 0.131 percent, or 13 hundredths of 1%.

 

Now that is a very conservative estimate since the J&J reports were included, since VAERS reports are completely unverified and since the number of reports was doubled explicitly to be conservative, and again this is not deaths it is anything people chose to report.

 

So in real world use the vaccines have unverified reports of all kinds totaling 0.131%, 13 hundredths of 1%.

I see anti-vaxxers consistency using the number 1%, as a COVID death rate of 1% and saying why should I fear that disease, it has a survival rate of 99%.

So why you should you fear a vaccine with total reported adverse reactions of 0.131%,

 

There are two risks involved with COVID of course, first is risk of contracting the virus, and second the risk of adverse effects from the virus.  Now some doctors and scientists are predicting that with the Delta variant everyone will eventually be exposed. Something to consider.

Now there is certainly a risk, although a very small risk, to taking the vaccine; a person needs to compare that to the risks of contracting COVID.